--- Log opened Thu Dec 15 00:00:45 2022
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03:43 < lkcl> muurkha, i'm looking for lightness, strength, stiffness, and end-user DIY easy constructability
03:44 < lkcl> the PVC acts as a "shape former", and becomes impossible to remove once the kevlar "hessian"-style cloth is stuck to it, so i figured, "what the ho-hum, just leave it there" :)
03:45 < lkcl> yes, there are regular bulges, and you know what? if you've seen the mythbusters "golf-ball dimpled car", the turbulence created *actually saved fuel* (!)
03:46 < lkcl> it was something mad like an increase from 23 to... 26? 29? mpg?
03:47 < lkcl> the PVC turns out to prevent longitudinal compression or stretching, and the kevlar coarse-weave, well, i tried bending a 250 mm long sample i made, with my bare hands
03:48 < lkcl> only 3 layers of kevlar/resin and with a LOT of pressure i could only see it flex about... 1 or 2 mm?
03:48 < lkcl> i love the balloons idea :)
03:48 < lkcl> that's fantastic.
03:49 < lkcl> i think i should be able to do a rapid shape then swap-out one-by-one with the kevlar poles
03:49 < lkcl> have you seen calfee design? https://calfeedesign.com/bamboo/
03:50 < lkcl> he does hemp/resin wrap around bamboo/carbon-fibre with the metal parts embedded
03:51 < lkcl> fricking awesome
03:51 < lkcl> then there is gaboats.com where i got the geodesic+polyester+kevlar idea from
03:53 < lkcl> https://derctuo.github.io/notes/globoflexia.html - that's a really sophisticated page with a hell of a lot of worthwhile ideas.
03:54 < lkcl> the original car model i used drinking straws and hot-glue.  it took me *3 weeks*, but fortunately i captured it in pyopenscad so i have a complete 3D model
03:55 < lkcl> haha i've also used masking tape to create a ducting fan adapter for a 120 mm fan onto a 3D printer, and created corrugated pipes out masking-tape, too :)
03:55 < lkcl> i wrapped layers (adhesive outside) around a broom handle
03:56 < lkcl> wound thin low-current PVC-covered wire around it in a close spiral
03:56 < lkcl> slapped on another layer of masking tape
03:57 < lkcl> took it off the broom, concertina'd it down, and i had really really light-weight cooling pipes where i could have a 120 mm fixed fan feeding a fast-moving 3D printer head with lots of cool air
06:49 < muurkha> lkcl: I'm flattered you liked my page but to find out if the ideas are worthwhile someone will have to try them out :]
06:54 < muurkha> the calfee design idea is interesting
06:54 < kanzure> maaku: i don't entirely understand italian history but there's some pretty weird stuff in their transhumanist politics orgs stuff; i haven't untangled that mess.
06:54 < kanzure> i remember lots of in-fighting between like 3 different italian transhumanism non-profits?
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08:25 < kanzure> chatGTP had some interesting ideas about how to reduce irreducible biological complexity inside cells
08:26 < kanzure> it mentioned the possibility of increasing the viscosity of cytoplasm over multiple generations such that brownian motion is restricted
08:26 < kanzure> (and presumably over multiple generations with mutation the surviving cells either fix the viscosity or they arrange their proteins better)
08:27 < kanzure> another idea it had was reducing the number of amino acid types either by genome engineering to remove amino acids or by downregulation of amino acid synthesis in some sort of gene drive scenario
08:27 < kanzure> it's not clear that removing amino acid types would decrease complexity-- it may be the case that making the whole cell out of only ~5 amino acids might require things to be much more complex
08:28 < kanzure> interestingly, it also brainstormed on its own the idea of using the cytoskeleton (+ more organelles in the flatland scenario) to organize cellular components
08:36 < L29Ah> won't increased viscosity just slow down everything?
08:42 < nsh> (science is an empirical endeavour)
09:03 < kanzure> yes on average most stuff would be slowed down but you would select for the mutant replicators that (1) actually replicate and (2) do so in a reasonable timme
09:04 < kanzure> instead of banning AI art, we should ban human art from being displayed/rendered because the risk of copying is too high
09:04 < kanzure> it would be easier to ban human production of art than make DRM magically work
09:06 < L29Ah> kanzure: where does the "reasonable time" requirement come from?
09:06 < L29Ah> s/requirement/pressure/
09:09 < kanzure> you could start by waiting a very long time, looking at the percent of replicators, and if it's enough to work with then you can shorten your window next time
09:11 < kanzure> "Based on lobbying, the US FTC banned referring to lab-grown diamonds as "real", "genuine", or even "stone". It required the word "diamond" be prefixed with "lab-grown" or "synthetic" in any marketing materials. Technology kept improving, economies of scale applied, and consumer demand eventually changed the balance. The FTC reversed its rulings and in 2022 demand for lab-grown stones (at ...
09:11 < kanzure> ...small fractions of equivalent natural prices) is at an all-time high."
09:15 < L29Ah> how about not increasing the viscosity and waiting for a shorter time?
09:26 < kanzure> might help, hard to tell, the fastest is a doubling time of ~10 minutes
09:26 < kanzure> (vibrio natriegens)
09:27 < kanzure> according to wikipedia: "Under optimum conditions, and all nutrients provided, the doubling time of V. natriegens can be less than 10 minutes."
09:27 < kanzure> in order to have a short doubling time, you need thousands of simultaneous polymerases and ribosomes
09:27 < kanzure> like thousands of replication forks throughout the genome
09:30 < kanzure> https://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/Vibrio_natriegens
09:45 < nmz787> seems like diffusion is the sort of round-robin task scheduler of the cell
09:46 < nmz787> except it isn't really round-robin
09:54 < kanzure> there was something in the channel logs a long time ago about inserting computer chips into cells and progressively taking over functions of the cell that way
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11:00 < maaku> kanzure: there are italian transhumanist non-profits?
11:04 < kanzure> maaku: like http://www.transumanisti.it/
11:05 < kanzure> https://www.wired.com/2009/08/italian-schismatic-transhumanists/
11:06 < kanzure> ".. just would like let you know that here in Italy there are two different transhumanist organizations (http://humanityplus.org/get-involved/chapters): the Associazione Italiana Transumanisti you already know, and the Network dei Transumanisti Italiani: http://www.transumanisti.org/
11:06 < kanzure> ".. The split was caused by the preeminent role aquired by the so called "overhumanists" (Stefano Vaj - now national secretary - and others) in the AIT.."
11:07 < kanzure> https://www.estropico.com/id329.htm
11:10 < kanzure> and then there's http://transumanisti.net/ ...
11:18 < maaku> thanks
11:33 < kanzure> .wik length extension attack
11:33 < saxo> "In cryptography and computer security, a length extension attack is a type of attack where an attacker can use Hash(message1) and the length of message1 to calculate Hash(message1 ‖ message2) for an attacker-controlled message2, without needing to know the content of [...]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Length_extension_attack
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13:34 < kanzure> they mispelled my name in "Make People Better" captions :-o
14:31 < kanzure> .wik audrey life sciences
14:31 < saxo> Article not found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_life_sciences gave 404 | Searched en for 'audrey life sciences' | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_result_found gave 404 | Searched en for 'No result found'
15:05 < kanzure> ryan.ferrell@hdmz.com
15:10 < kanzure> ... and they cut to black at the end before my lab could answer their question.
15:39 < kanzure> would be nice to see a follow-up untangling all the backlash and even people calling for his head-- really pressing why people think their reaction was proportional (it wasn't)
15:43 < kanzure> hmm my bookmarks don't include a good rebuttal of asilomar conference
15:44 < muurkha> how would you rebut an entire conference anyway?
15:45 < kanzure> well the idea that global scientific consensus is required for science for one, just seems like a falsity
15:46 < kanzure> that's not science.
15:46 < kanzure> that's not even ethical
17:12 < kanzure> https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19298844/
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18:38 < fenn> https://fennetic.net/irc/balloon_dog_anatomy_79au4nd5zeb41.jpg
18:41 < kanzure> is this a proposal or is this a reply to the art discussion?
18:42 < fenn> it was in reply to the derctuo page on globoflexia (balloon twisting)
18:43 < fenn> mostly i just think it's funny
18:44 < fenn> evolving life to work with a more viscous cytoplasm would be difficult, because the obvious first mutation to be self-selecting is one that reduces the viscosity
18:46 < fenn> .title https://www.imdb.com/title/tt19298844/
18:46 < saxo> Make People Better (2022) - IMDb
18:47 < kanzure> yours truly makes a few appearances in this documentary
18:50 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=19bc82bf Bryan Bishop: transcript: austin bitcoin developers socratic seminar 35 >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/transcripts/austin-bitcoin-developers/2022-12-15-socratic-seminar-35/
18:54 < fenn> "Make People Better does not offer an overview of genetic engineering or Crispr Cas9; it is explicitly not meant as an educational documentary about this field. Rather, it veers more towards true crime in its focus on Dr. He."
18:55 < fenn> "Through these interviews and an assortment of archival footage, we come to understand that Dr. He is something of a scapegoat for the wider world of scientific research. Behind closed doors, none of his colleagues, fellow scientists, or CCP handlers had issues with his unethical approach"
18:55 < kanzure> (here "ethics" should be read as "the rules of the academy")
19:02 < fenn> was there ever any fallout for george church being insufficiently outraged?
19:02 < fenn> or at least pretending to be
19:02 < fenn> what is the game theory here
19:02 < fenn> does anyone actually follow up on whether you go along with the party line
19:03 < fenn> hitler felt emboldened by the lack of any real repercussions for the armenian genocide
19:03 < fenn> you'd think people would have learned this lesson by now?
19:04 < fenn> why do people screech outrageously unless there is a tangible benefit or harm of not having done so?
19:04 < fenn> outragedly* (?)
19:06 < fenn> if the majority of He's western peers agreed with his approach before it went public, why then were they all so quick to throw him under the bus
19:07 < fenn> a negative response to human genetic engineering is utterly predictable, so they must have been prepared for the eventuality
19:14 < fenn> " It is already a fascinating subject and a story with many twists and turns, and by announcing the end of that story right at the start, some of the mystery and thrill around how the world is going to react to what he has done is lost."
19:15 < fenn> yes, china could have easily said fuck you to the west and gone full steam ahead
19:15 < fenn> and who knows, maybe they are, behind closed doors
19:24 < fenn> i wonder what fraction of people born via IVF know that they owe their lives to the existence of this technology
19:25 < fenn> does it come up at the thanksgiving dinner table?
19:25 < fenn> do they tell their friends about it?
19:27  * L29Ah told a few ppl that his mother had episiotomy to deliver him; don't remember at what circumstances had she told that
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22:59 < fenn> 'A "Grave Torpedo" was a device that was placed in the grave of your loved one upon burial; it was designed to explode if a grave robber opened the coffin lid.'
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--- Log closed Fri Dec 16 00:00:46 2022