--- Log opened Mon Jul 14 00:00:40 2025
00:10 < hprmbridge> nmz787> not that I can find
00:11 < hprmbridge> nmz787> well, this one says qwerty https://typeware.tech/
00:11 < hprmbridge> nmz787> but it's pre-order
00:11 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I ordered the TapXR for $160
00:12 < hprmbridge> nmz787> it might be an expensive gadget, but I guess I'll take one for the team, for science!
00:12 < hprmbridge> nmz787> that pre-order is $275 which is... a bit much I feel
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00:15 < hprmbridge> nmz787> that one does appear to be two-handed, and mentions something about seamless switching to mouse without reorienting your hand
00:15 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I was mostly thinking of trying the tapXR and if I didn't like it, I have a 30 day return window with amazon
00:19 < fenn> the comments were all like "this was about as hard as learning to play guitar" so i figured it was some chording keyboard interface
00:19 < fenn> which seems more like a failure to use good AI rather than a hardware limitation
00:20 < fenn> you should be able to use a good camera to detect regular typing movements and just pretend there's a keyboard there
00:20 < fenn> it could even have haptic feedback
00:21 < hprmbridge> nmz787> https://www.youtube.com/@TypewareTech
00:22 < hprmbridge> nmz787> fenn do you mean this comment? "I find the TapStrap hard to put on and it puts quite a strain on finger tendons typing. I had difficulty learning the guitar, and the Tap Straps has about a similar learning curve."
00:22 < hprmbridge> nmz787> that is about an earlier product
00:22 < hprmbridge> nmz787> tapStrap != tapXR
00:45 < fenn> whatever, they're both chording keyboards
00:45 < fenn> my point is you have to learn a new input scheme
00:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787> the typeware one looks less like a coding keyboard from their videos
00:47 < fenn> i haven't looked into that much but it reminded me of perky which also had a chording style input even though it had multiple degrees of freedom per finger
00:49 < fenn> uh, for japanese characters anyway
00:50 < fenn> that's a big difference isn't it
00:50 < fenn> i guess typeware is what i want
00:52 < hprmbridge> nmz787> it seems very "pre order" based on their videos
00:52 < hprmbridge> nmz787> like maybe not this year...
00:52 < nsh> https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/nasa_systems_engineering_handbook_0.pdf
00:52 < fenn> maybe not ever, as these things go
00:54 < fenn> this scrape of the defunct perky website is in an unknown (to me) character encoding but it was auto detected by chrome when i loaded it a long time ago: https://fennetic.net/mirrors/perky_chording_keyboard.tgz
00:54 < fenn> mostly for the pictures
00:54 < fenn> ah i should have linked here instead https://fennetic.net/mirrors/homepage2.nifty.com/perky/
00:56 < nsh> --
00:56 < nsh> f confirmed, this is one of the most significant developments in space technology in a long time, and could fundamentally change satellite economics.
00:56 < nsh> Satellite refueling in geostationary orbit has been a holy grail for decades but it's an extraordinarily complex technical challenge. NASA tried during 8 years with its OSAM-1 program but ultimately threw in the towel.
00:56 < nsh> -- https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1944417649624248490
00:58 < fenn> meanwhile, this is your new boss https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-14893333/MTV-reality-TV-star-head-NASA-Sean-Duffy.html
00:59 < fenn> NASA is legendarily risk averse. the fact they gave up doesn't mean it's not possible, it means they couldn't afford to fail and be embarrassed
01:00 < fenn> meanwhile, china can just fail and not tell anyone
01:00 < fenn> isn't openness and transparency great?
01:03 < hprmbridge> nmz787> ok, paid $27.50 for the pre-order of that typeware kb... here's to hoping for a better future
01:03 < fenn> also iirc there was a commercial service that demonstrated this capability a few years ago, the whole robotic arm docking thing seemed overkill to me
01:03  * fenn crosses ten fingers
01:05 < fenn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mission_Extension_Vehicle
01:06 < fenn> that was the commercial thing
01:06 < fenn> "OSAM-1 was a 2016-2024 conceptual NASA mission and spacecraft designed to test on-orbit refilling of satellites. The program was cancelled in 2024, two years ahead of its planned launch date." so they never even tried
03:17 < hprmbridge> Katylase> hi friends! how are you doing?
08:49 < hprmbridge> Eli> https://havemore.kids/
09:04 < hprmbridge> kanzure> this is just data, not arguments in favor of childmaking
09:25 < hprmbridge> Eli> True
10:40 < L29Ah> somalia rocks
11:42 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Welp, apparently I was on a spree last night and also (pre) ordered viture luma pro glasses.
11:43 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I also found people 3d printing split ergo keyboards, so presumably I could try designing one myself too
11:44 < RangerMauve> nmz787: Might be interested in this: https://github.com/boomskats/woahland scripts for using viture 3dof accelerometer to control mouse cursor
11:44 < RangerMauve> I haven't gotten it working yet, might be some udev issues
11:45 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Ignoring the number row, seems like you could have some sort of eeg or flex/stress sensor on each finger to detect forward/reverse/relaxed finger pressure rather than actually needing to move your finger forward or back on a surface to go between keyboard rows
11:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Rogermauve i read spacewalker doesn't work on Linux, what's the visual experience like by default? Any video at all?
11:46 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Displaylink kernel module required?
11:47 < L29Ah> the flex sensor thing was implemented a few times as ropes and as actual flex sensors, googleit
11:47 < RangerMauve> Also re: typeware. I was thinking of getting the Twiddler 4 since the optical mouse was a major need for me from this form factor
11:48 < L29Ah> if you want a hmd that works well on linux, consider xreal air
11:48 < L29Ah> i have twiddler 3 and hate it
11:50 < hprmbridge> nmz787> I was considering xreal one  or one pro, but the screenshare ability of viture and some comments that implied less visual artifacts for text and distortion at corners sold me on viture
11:50 < hprmbridge> nmz787> (share using their dock pro)
11:50 < hprmbridge> nmz787> My kid also has nintendo switch and you need like 4 adapters with xreal, vs just the viture dock pro
11:52 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Tiwddler 4 looks maybe ok... I see a pic of someone holding two, and each has 3 rows plus thumb buttons for shift/etc
11:52 < RangerMauve> The default experience with HMDs is it's a fixed screen that acts like a monitor which for my use case is fine. I've got theMad Gaze, Rokid Max, and Viture XR Pro. I'm considering getting the new XReal for the camera attachment and the on-device 3dof/6dof tracking.
11:52 < RangerMauve> What do you hate about the twiddler 3 L29Ah ?
11:53 < RangerMauve> My only chorded keyboard has been the tap strap 2 and I found it was inadequate for coding due to limits on applying modifiers to the raw key codes. Their UI for configuring bindings couldn't register the Super key so it made a lot of my bindings unusable
11:54 < RangerMauve> The shift+ctrl+alt buttons on the top of the twiddler is the other thing I find exciting. Their non optical mouse on the 3 made it less appealing but the new version seems to check off all my reqs
11:55 < RangerMauve> TBH I'm enjoying the keyboard/controller setup I have on my GPD Win 4. Just not as handy when I'm walking around with a drink
11:55 < RangerMauve> Or recently I was getting a tatoo so I couldn't use one of my arms :P
11:56 < RangerMauve> https://github.com/RangerMauve/my-gpd-setup
11:57 < RangerMauve> I'm in an AR discord and there's been a lot more buzz around IO rings for controlling. Been thinking of adding some gestures to some of these cheap rings by reworking the firmware
11:59 < RangerMauve> I'm still aiming to put some of these EMGs to use to use as input devices from my back muscles >:)
12:00 < RangerMauve> nmz787: The adapters are largely overkill, you just need something that can supply power to the switch in addition to the video out. I use my Rokid adapter RN. The thing is you then need to remove the controllers from the switch which is also a PITA
12:04 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Gpd?
12:04 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Link (https://www.gpd.hk/gpdwin4) is dead
12:05 < hprmbridge> nmz787> Oh is it some handheld laptop console keyboard thingy?
12:05 < RangerMauve> https://www.gpd.hk/gpdwin42025
12:05 < RangerMauve> It's like a steam deck but smaller and more beefy and has a keyboard
12:05 < RangerMauve> My primary machine ATM
12:07 < RangerMauve> Sadly the iGPU hasn't been usable for AI stuff for me yet. Gotta figure out if this blog will help: https://blog.machinezoo.com/Running_Ollama_on_AMD_iGPU
12:07 < RangerMauve> CPU inference is decent for 7B models tho
12:20 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Fertile androgenetic mice generated by targeted epigenetic editing of imprinting control regions" https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2425307122
12:24 < L29Ah> RangerMauve: llama.cpp works great on my amd igpu
12:25 < L29Ah> RangerMauve: consider Qwen3 30B MoE for cpu/igpu inference instead of a dense 7B model; it is much smarter
12:26 < L29Ah> 20:52:26]<RangerMauve> What do you hate about the twiddler 3 L29Ah ?
12:26 < L29Ah> the buttons are shitty tactile ones with <1mm travel; the joystick is a simple 8 position button effectively
12:28 < L29Ah> i couldn't motivate myself learning the chording after figuring the joystick is much MUCH worse than a trackpoint and can't be upgraded easily (the firmware is closed source)
12:29 < L29Ah> also the case is strongly glued together (probably with ABS juice or so) and i had to vandalize it to disassemble
12:32 < L29Ah> https://www.precisionnutrition.com/the-cost-of-health-optimization nice overview of personal longevity optimization for a layman
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17:33 < fenn> Mark Zuckerberg 
17:33 < fenn> 9h  ·
17:33 < fenn> For our superintelligence effort, I'm focused on building the most elite and talent-dense team in the industry. We're also going to invest hundreds of billions of dollars into compute to build superintelligence. We have the capital from our business to do this.
17:33 < fenn> SemiAnalysis just reported that Meta is on track to be the first lab to bring a 1GW+ supercluster online. 💪
17:33 < fenn> We're actually building several multi-GW clusters. We're calling the first one Prometheus and it's coming online in '26. We're also building Hyperion, which will be able to scale up to 5GW over several years. We're building multiple more titan clusters as well. Just one of these covers a significant part of the footprint of Manhattan.
18:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> cool
18:11 < L29Ah> Total equity	Increase US$182.6 billion (2024)
18:12 < L29Ah> s/Increase //
19:09 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Having the cancer research and the nanomaterials research in the same institutions that teach that America is a racist cishet patriarchy full of misogynoir is like Hamas putting their headquarters in hospitals."
19:14 < L29Ah> RCSPFoM
19:18 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yeah this seems like a good summary of the basics. Ultimately you want to “square the curve”. Longer healthspan means you live longer but generally die sooner once you become disabled.
19:20 < hprmbridge> Eli>  https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1394503763833917480/IMG_1966.jpg?ex=68770c55&is=6875bad5&hm=15c691c6e4d61d0a553c4552af73af48d6cc0018aee955f89e022b2ec22f450d&
19:22 < hprmbridge> Eli> People talk a lot about magical pharmaceuticals but the reality is that the only thing that has no negative side effects and only positive side effects is good lifestyle choices. Could potentially increase average lifespan in this country by 10-20 years if everyone made optimal lifestyle choices
19:23 < hprmbridge> Eli> RRK is right about that even though some of the specific details he says might not be peer reviewed…
19:24 < fenn> lifestyle choices have negative side effects too
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19:27 < hprmbridge> Eli> It’s true. I used to be a lot cooler when I smoke and drank. Now I go to bed on time and don’t party.
19:27 < fenn> also you can get hit by a bus while jogging
19:28 < fenn> people can become addicted to exercise in unhealthy ways
19:28 < L29Ah> i'd love to get addicted to exercise
19:29 < hprmbridge> Eli> If you think like that maybe you need to start drinking and partying. Drs. Prescription: Cancun to learn to live in the moment
19:30 < fenn> yes. sadly i'm genetically incompatible with alcohol
19:30  * L29Ah throws stimuli at Eli
19:30 < L29Ah> react in 5s or die
19:30 < hprmbridge> Eli> 💀💀💀
19:30 < L29Ah> that's living in the moment
19:32 < hprmbridge> Eli> I think we are all a bit genetically incompatible. Some of us are just a little more Irish though
19:33 < fenn> well it doesn't affect me the same way as others, i just get tired and feel bad and sit in a corner
19:33 < L29Ah> there are better party drugs
19:33 < fenn> indeed, alcohol is one of the dumbest out there
19:34 < fenn> it's the tylenol of party drugs
19:35 < fenn> nothing has no negative effects and only positive effects. engineering is about making good tradeoffs
19:36 < fenn> strive to be on the pareto frontier
19:36 < fenn> it's the only frontier left :|
19:36 < hprmbridge> Eli> what is the negative side effect of proper sleep?
19:36 < fenn> organizing the rest of your life around it
19:37 < RangerMauve> Real
19:37 < fenn> i mean, good job if you can actually get proper sleep
19:37  * L29Ah has 20 minutes remaining until his estimated sleep time begins and he needs to brush teeth and move to bed in time
19:38  * fenn rotates the lighting color hues
19:38 < L29Ah> still didn't research the apnea thing
19:38 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yeah, there's a lot of low hanging fruit. I'm sort of wondering if there's a massive undiagnosed sleep apnea issue in this country.
19:38 < L29Ah> never understood the significance of the lightning color thing, just power off the lights 1h before sleep and tune down the display brightness
19:39 < hprmbridge> Eli> I can't even imagine going back to bad sleep.
19:39 < RangerMauve> Main gift I gave myself is structuring my work around letting my body sleep in. Sadly can't be fully aligned on it due to $job having fixed-ish hours.
19:40 < hprmbridge> Eli> Red lights are super dope. I can't imagine going back to normie lights either.
19:40  * fenn straps red LED band-aids all over Eli
19:40 < hprmbridge> Eli> I don't know how to describe other than normie lights are like getting punched in the face with photons
19:41 < L29Ah> 5kK high CRI lights are great, i can see things and differentiate them well
19:41 < L29Ah> photons go brrrr, screw these sunlight zealots
19:42 < hprmbridge> Eli> yeah, you want sort of a lightbulb that changes based on normal circadian rythym. Once people experience it for the first time they will all demand it.
19:42 < fenn> i only scan my environment with artisanal hyperspectral pushbroom imagers
19:43 < hprmbridge> Eli> Like, theres no reason a house should not be automatically changing color with circadian rythym. It's not the 1900's anymore.
19:43 < fenn> some of us prefer not to voluntarily populate our private spaces with spyware
19:43 < hprmbridge> Eli> *Fenn says this typing from his iphone
19:44 < fenn> you can't even type on an iphone
19:45 < hprmbridge> Eli> I would need to access the FBIs cameras to verify how you're inputting text.
19:45 < fenn> i know someone who spends a lot of time and mental energy on home automation, and does it all correctly
19:45 < fenn> but, uh...
19:45 < fenn> yeah
19:45 < RangerMauve> One of my partners is sensitive to LEDs so we haven't been able to make the switch 😭
19:46 < hprmbridge> Eli> one?
19:46 < fenn> welcome to the internet where people have different cultures and values
19:46 < RangerMauve> I am a complicated person 😸
19:48 < fenn> a lot of LED lighting has unbelievably bad flicker and "CRI" (but really just too much blue leakage from cheaping out on phosphors)
19:48 < fenn> CFL used to have flicker problems when it was first introduced but they fixed that with better driver electronics
19:49 < fenn> what was surprising is that other people WEREN'T bothered by it
19:49 < RangerMauve> CFL is a brand?
19:50 < L29Ah> anyway, for the outlined problem one could just add red leds
19:50 < L29Ah> and switch to them at evenings
19:50 < fenn> compact fluorescent light bulbs are those spiral light bulb shaped things
19:50 < L29Ah> bonus points for gradually dimming out the main lightning
19:50 < hprmbridge> Eli> yeah, thats what i do. Cant go back to normie bulbs
19:50 < L29Ah> no need for spyware
19:50 < L29Ah> besides, i like ESP8266 relay modules w/ Tasmota firmware
19:50 < fenn> no L29Ah the whole point is to eliminate blue photons which special non-vision cells in the peripheral edges of your retinal respond to
19:51 < fenn> retina*
19:51 < L29Ah> no dimming solution yet at my place tho
19:51 < L29Ah> fenn: you don't need to eliminate it completely
19:51 < RangerMauve> https://www.home-assistant.io/ Have been contemplating setting this up. Maybe plug it into a tool calling LLM
19:52 < RangerMauve> Some of my pals go the full spyware approach with all the cloud shit and microphones feeding directly to advertisers. Spoopy
19:53 < fenn> you don't really need an LLM to turn the lights off
19:53 < RangerMauve> But it's cooooool
19:53 < L29Ah> oh, that's what those 0.6B LLMs are for!
19:54 < RangerMauve> Yeah TBH I just turn all the lights off as much as I can. I'm contemplating getting a new TV that I can dim to be even darker to eliminate the main lighting
19:54 < RangerMauve> I say this as I literally have a screen strapped to my face
19:55 < fenn> why do you literally have a screen strapped to your face?
19:55 < RangerMauve> 🤷 More comfy to code and browse on while hanging on the couch
19:56 < RangerMauve> Plus it's translucent so I can look around if I need to
19:56 < fenn> no need for lighting if you can see via your head mounted infrared illuminators
19:56 < RangerMauve> Viture XR Pro
19:56 < RangerMauve> I just see using my suberb darkvision
19:57 < RangerMauve> Lightcels be like "Noooo I can't navigate without the lights on", meanwhile I be stalking in the night
19:57 < hprmbridge> Eli> A bed desk is one of the greatest biohack purchases I've every made.
19:57 < RangerMauve> Kinda wish we had more power outages so I could skulk around in the absolute dark
19:57 < RangerMauve> Which one do you have @Eli?
19:57 < fenn> i give you permission to skulk around in the dark for no reason
19:58 < RangerMauve> It's not the same with all the streetlights
19:58 < hprmbridge> Eli> I've been rocking this one: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B086WBG56J
19:58 < RangerMauve> But DW I find opportunities to skulk
19:58 < fenn> ah, i remember when it was all sodium vapor streetlights and not terrible
19:58 < hprmbridge> Eli> More expensive, but super sturdy.
20:00 < RangerMauve> Very nice! I've considered getting one of the ones that go entirely accross the bed
20:00 < RangerMauve> I've considered going a similar path to bed desking but with adjustable arms holding everything up and attached to my headboard
20:01 < fenn> i've considered building an isolation tank out of concrete sewer pipe and retroflective microbeads and a laser projector
20:01 < hprmbridge> Eli> whatever you do its worth it. I don't have peer reviewed data, but I'm also certain we weren't built to code 8 hours a day sitting in  a chair.
20:02 < RangerMauve> fenn /real?
20:02 < RangerMauve> That sounds dreamy
20:03 < fenn> oh i was just jumping on the "i've considered" train
20:03 < RangerMauve> Damn. Concrete isolation tank sounds great
20:03 < fenn> but yeah if you don't have to insulate your hab space from noise / heat / cold / bullets / tax inspectors, you can get away with a lot
20:04 < RangerMauve> Kinda related to chairs, the HMD approach has been nice because I can lay back in bed to code with my computer on my lap. Way more comfy
20:05 < RangerMauve> Once I get my storage sitch figure out I'm gonna replace my desk setup with a fancy chair I can lay back in
20:05 < hprmbridge> Eli> I've heard of that. I've seen people get a plastic pool that you fill with air and just lay on it like that.
20:08 < RangerMauve> I need those pods from The Matrix
20:10 < RangerMauve> https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F695vjg8hc2c81.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D11c236d14ec37d5151053b2c0289dba96b0b6db0
20:23 < fenn> i find this architectural style pleasing https://www.foleyproducts.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/3E2A4403.jpg
20:23 < fenn> it's way more expensive than just pouring in place, for reasons i can't understand
20:25 < fenn> this is called a box culvert
20:29 < fenn> https://live.staticflickr.com/5211/5512433576_224ec9a85f_b.jpg
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--- Log closed Tue Jul 15 00:00:41 2025