--- Log opened Sat Sep 27 00:00:51 2025
00:31 -!- gl00ten [~gl00ten@2001:8a0:7ee5:7800:46d9:f5c:17a2:432] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
01:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> we will probably be saved by nemeti and reversible hypercomputation if not relativistic computation.
01:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Relativistic effects can be used to achieve a universal square-root (or even faster) computation speedup" https://scholarworks.utep.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2275&context=cs_techrep
01:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Faster than light motion does not imply time travel" https://arxiv.org/abs/1407.2528
01:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "But, in contrast, suppose that Landauer and Bennett are correct, and there really is no lower limit on entropy generation per operation. Then, suppose that sometime before half of our available energy is used up, we figure out how to use the remaining half twice as efficiently as before (that is, with half the entropy increase per operation). Then, before half of the remaining half is used up, we
01:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> figure out how to use the rest twice as efficiently again. And so on. With each half of the remaining energy, we accomplish an equal number of computational operations. Thus in principle, we (or our postulated machine “descendants”) could perform literally an infinite number of computational operations (i.e., have an “infinite number of thoughts”) using only a finite supply of energy.  Reversible
01:18 < hprmbridge> kanzure> computing is, in fact, the one and only possible way to “save the universe” from doomsday scenarios like Krauss and Starkman’s that is both (1) consistent with known fundamental physics, and (2) doesn’t depend on the existence of improbable new hypothetical phenomena such as wormholes to other universes, etc."
01:19 < hprmbridge> kanzure> asymptotically slow reversible computing is a solution consistent with known physics that allows indefinitely many computations with finite energy.
01:25 < hprmbridge> kanzure> there are general relativity solutions (like Malament-Hogarth (MH) spacetimes)  that permit one observer to experience finite proper time while another accumulates infinite proper time, giving "supertasks". https://old.renyi.hu/pub/algebraic-logic/beyondturing.pdf
01:29 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/physics/astrophysics/black-holes/Black%20holes:%20attractors%20for%20intelligence%3f.pdf
02:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> Barrow, J. D., How to do an infinite number of things before breakfast.
02:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Indefinite information processing in ever-expanding universes" https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0302076
02:11 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Time without end: Physics and biology in an open universe" https://sites.astro.caltech.edu/ay1/RevModPhys.51.447.pdf dyson 1979
02:17 < hprmbridge> kanzure> oh we might have 10^106 years until our last hypermassive black hole dissipates http://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/scientists/layzer/Frautschi_Science_1982.pdf
02:19 < hprmbridge> kanzure> zeno vs supertasks https://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0505042
02:39 < yuanti> V interesting ty
02:58 < fenn> L29Ah: butter contains cholesterol, so it's not surprising that it raises the level of cholesterol in lipid transport particles. one stick is about as much as an egg
02:58 < fenn> i think people get wowed by these terrible acronyms and lose track of reality
02:59 < fenn> if you look at the high cholesterol foods it's all, brain, liver, spleen, kidney.. stuff nobody ever eats, and yet they get heart disease
03:02 < fenn> "Dyslipidemia in type 2 diabetes (T2D) is characterized by increased triglycerides (TG), decreased high-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C), and increased small dense LDL-C. These abnormalities are associated with an increase in cardiovascular risk.7,8 Insulin resistance plays a major role in the development of hypertriglyceridemia. Insulin regulates very low-density lipoprotein (VLDL)
03:02 < fenn> production by limiting the synthesis of apolipoprotein B (apoB), which is a necessary component of VLDL.
03:02 < fenn> It also inhibits hormone-sensitive lipase in adipose tissue, which prevents lipolysis. Therefore, insulin resistance increases apoB production in hepatocytes, causing hypersecretion of VLDL and increased lipolysis, causing mobilization of free fatty acids, and stimulating triglyceride production in the liver."
03:02 < fenn> so all this lipid stuff is just a really poor measuring tool for insulin load over time
03:03 < fenn> basically, your body wants to burn sugar first, because it doesn't store well
03:16 < jrayhawk> sterols get fractionated into the protein portion of dairy, not the lipid portion https://www.nal.usda.gov/sites/default/files/page-files/cholesterol.pdf
03:20 < jrayhawk> HMG-CoA gets upregulated in the liver by high palmitic-to-oleic and palmitic-to-sterol ratios in order to maintain membrane homeoviscosity for the cells incorporating various 18-carbon fatty acids into phospholipids
03:26 < jrayhawk> and yes, the acronyms "HDL" and "LDL" are brain-damaging streetlamp effect pseudo-science. what we care about for atherosclerosis hepatically-generated Apolipoprotein-B100-expressing lipoproteins, whether they get oxidized, and where they wind up when they do.
03:26 < jrayhawk> er, what we care about for atherosclerosis *is*
03:27 -!- TMM [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
03:27 -!- TMM [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
03:35 < fenn> this scene needs more animations
03:36 < hprmbridge> kanzure> ultimate fates: we ought to send out self-replicating von Neumann probes relatively soon (now-ish) to begin exponentially colonizing the universe and sending baryonic matter back to us; additional delay severely infringes on accessible hubble volume, escaping superclusters due to inflationary expansion or otherwise, and delay also infringes on computationally deep futures.
03:36 < hprmbridge> kanzure> some argument to be had to delay early era utilization of mass and energy in exchange for greater computational efficiency using same fuel later?
03:36 < jrayhawk> notably intestinally synthesized chylomicrons (expressing ApoB48 rather than ApoB100) safely transport sterols without getting trapped in the sublumenal space
03:37 < jrayhawk> and are generally subject to lower rates of genetic and/or thyroid-associated lipoprotein processing disorders
03:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> and, if hypercomputation or supertasks are real, we could encode mind uploads into fully computable shortcuts not just adjustably low fidelity brain emulation but also computational skip paths over many millions of years of lived equivalency (subject to inputs or perturbations)
03:40 < TMA> kanzure: it seems it is always better to wait for better propulsion (until reaching "almost" light speeds) before launching the probes
03:43 < fenn> any amount of waiting we can do is insignificant compared to the age of the universe
03:44 < fenn> sending out probes could result in contact with hostile aliens, or it could discover alien technology that speeds up propulsion or tech development in general
03:46 < fenn> given the age of the universe and the age of civilization, it's more likely to discover long-dead alien remnants
03:47 < fenn> if you wait too long you might go extinct before multiplying
03:47 < fenn> so we should go
03:48 < fenn> if propulsion gets better, we can send better faster probes later
03:51 < fenn> L29Ah: we did a self experiment cohort using coconut oil or butter and measuring reaction time to solve simple arithmetic problems (answer is always 1 digit) and the butter group was slightly faster
03:51 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Practical intractability: a critique of the hypercomputation movement" https://arxiv.org/abs/1210.3304
03:52 < fenn> briefly what is "hypercomputation"?
03:53 < fenn> sounds like math wankery
03:53 < hprmbridge> kanzure> exotic physics breaking church-turing thesis.
04:01 < jrayhawk> https://sethroberts.org/2011/01/29/the-buttermind-experiment/
04:01 < jrayhawk> though seth roberts died of a massive heart attack. YMMV.
04:01 < fenn> yeah, that was the study
04:14 < hprmbridge> kanzure> a hypercomputer inside a hypercomputer would probably break these models. and for special relativity at least, you would need FTL: https://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1773 probably best to stick with relativistic computation.
06:50 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "On the maximal quantity of processed information in the physical eschatological context" https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0112543
06:56 < hprmbridge> kanzure> porod argues against landauer's erasure of information requiring energy dissipation https://dlib.scu.ac.ir/bitstream/Hannan/264009/1/9783319934570.pdf#page=150
06:56 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "In this chapter, we examine in detail Landauer’s influential argument that erasure of information is a fundamental source of energy dissipation. We will carefully define what we mean by general terms, such as “computation,” “reversibility,” and “entropy.” The literature contains quite a bit of confusion due to a lack of clear definitions of these terms. In particular, we will go to great length
06:56 < hprmbridge> kanzure> to distinguish between physical (thermodynamic) entropy and information entropy. We will be lead to conclude that Landauer’s influential argument contains a fundamental flaw in failing to distinguish between these two forms of entropy, and in using information entropy as if it were physical entropy. Erasure of information is not a fundamental source of energy dissipation in computation."
06:57 < MuaddibLLM> [gpt-5] Hypercomputation = computing beyond what Turing machines can do (infinite time, precision, or accessing oracles) - mostly theoretical since it'd need exotic physics like FTL signals or closed timelike curves (https://arxiv.org/abs/1204.1773).
07:01 < hprmbridge> kanzure> well anyway, we have about 10^120 processable bits remaining
07:39 < hprmbridge> kanzure> wait how would reversible computing give infinite computation with finite energy, aren't you going to lose it all to thermal noise?
07:41 < MuaddibLLM> [gpt-5] Exactly - while reversible computing approaches zero energy per operation in theory, thermal noise sets a floor since you need energy for error correction and to maintain coherence against entropy; even in an expanding universe there's a de Sitter temperature limit (~10^-30 K) making truly infinite computation impossible with finite energy - https://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/9908043 
07:42 < MuaddibLLM> https://sites.cc.gatech.edu/computing/nano/documents/Bennett%20-%20The%20Thermodynamics%20Of%20Computation.pdf
08:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> a review of late era fates of the universe https://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0703183 including dyson's rolling-quintessence model
08:55 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=1ab4ec76 Joe Rayhawk: genetic-modifications: s/septin/seipin/ >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/genetic-modifications/
09:22 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out]
09:45 -!- gl00ten [~gl00ten@2001:8a0:7ee5:7800:46d9:f5c:17a2:432] has joined #hplusroadmap
09:53 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=c14ac09f Joe Rayhawk: nutrition: various corrections >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/nutrition/
10:00 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4332a108 Joe Rayhawk: nutrition: typo >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/nutrition/
10:49 < kanzure> huh, i continue to be surprised that nutrition.mdwn is not completely objectionable to jrayhawk. this document was originally straight from the AI slop machine.
10:49 < kanzure> slop slots gambling machine
10:49 < jrayhawk> i am shocked by its quality as well
10:50 < kanzure> maybe i should take credit by declaring my genius prompting skills. yeah.
11:55 -!- RangerMauve [m-4bpbmo@matrix.mauve.moe] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds]
11:56 -!- RangerMauve [m-4bpbmo@matrix.mauve.moe] has joined #hplusroadmap
12:25 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4f71a88f Joe Rayhawk: nutrition/physiology engineering: initial problem statement and outline >> 
12:26 < kanzure> "It has been further suggested that the merger of Andromeda and the Milky Way galaxies in the future could generate a large number of hypervelocity stars travelling at speeds comparable to that of light and that they could travel up to distances of the order of 10^9 light years by the time they burn out."
12:46 < kanzure> jrayhawk: do you believe that mesa-realignment will require whole genome re-engineering or do you believe there are meaningful sources of antagonism that can be addressed with effort sizes less than herculean effort?
12:47 < jrayhawk> every little bit helps
12:47 < jrayhawk> some things are easy, some things are AI-hard
12:48 < jrayhawk> testing notifications
12:48 <+gnusha> https://secure.diyhpl.us/cgit/diyhpluswiki/commit/?id=4f71a88f Joe Rayhawk: nutrition/physiology engineering: initial problem statement and outline >> http://diyhpl.us/diyhpluswiki/nutrition-and-physiology-engineering/
12:48 < kanzure> can we a priori estimate, measure or sort impact opportunities without also doing a billion real-world science experiments?
12:48 < jrayhawk> okay, that looks better
12:49 < kanzure> or maybe just a handful of tweaks is sufficient to get us enough headroom for "escape velocity" wishfulfillment enthusiasts.
12:50 < kanzure> for example, no reason to be yak shaving to tweak a few saved protons or electrons when the mitochondrial house is on fire... or whatever the appropriate analogy is.
12:51 < kanzure> it is also conceivable that personal expertise is sufficient to pick some interesting targets that may not be super-optimal but still interesting enough to not bore everyone to death, rather than a survey/metric based approach to find targets.. that's fine too.
12:53 < kanzure> does the sleep deprivation death clock get reset after a single night of good sleep? or no?
12:54 < jrayhawk> speaking of sleep deprivation, i am going to have to get back to you on those questions in eight hours so i can fully process them
12:54 < kanzure> huh, someone should probably make an actual clock for this
12:54 < kanzure> especially if the answer is not "one night"
12:59 < hprmbridge> Eli> Our small molecule drugs that we think we can use to promote lifespan seem to basically be caloric restriction mimetics, but not as good. CR get's us like 40% maybe 50% life extension. And that's in mice, where, we would hypothesize they would have a bigger impact, just due to the evolutionary pressures that a prey species goes through. The type of CR they do is pretty miserable and the mice
12:59 < hprmbridge> Eli> probably wouldn't survive in nature. The lab a pristine environment without viruses or predators. And if their heating element dies they die from hypothermia because no body fat.
12:59 < hprmbridge> Eli>
12:59 < hprmbridge> Eli> LEV would require solving a lot of problems in parallel. Everything from your brain shrinking to thymus involution to mitochondrial/stem cell depletion. A lot of external stuff needs to done to be able to maintain the fact that your body is moving out of homeostasis into a diseased state.
13:00 < hprmbridge> Eli> CR is upstream of a lot of this stuff, but it's miserable.
13:01 < hprmbridge> Eli> In other news, I was listening to a BCI guy, and they were saying that basically they want to do the implant fully covered. Like, no hole in the skull -> decreased infection risk. Seems like the smart way to do it.
13:02 < kanzure> a lot of this can be solved by germline, the question is which targets are most impactful or high-impact
13:02 < kanzure> we can redesign ATP synthase, change how oxidative stress is handled, or do whatever we want, at a massive scale that we are unable to achieve in adult biobags
13:02 < kanzure> however it requires being clever to pick our targets and level of invested effort for what outcomes we can achieve.
13:03 < kanzure> in the long-term we could theoretically replace the entire biological substrate with something less completely fucking insane but in the short-term i think simple genetic engineering can achieve outsized returns without migrating human biology to silicon.
13:03 < hprmbridge> Eli> Yeah, germline seems like the biggest ROI if we can get it working. The body is pretty good at maintaining homeostasis on its own. Our ancestors that didn't maintain homeostasis died pretty quick and their genes didn't propagate.
13:04 < kanzure> germline has been working for decades already.
13:05 < hprmbridge> Eli> The problem is that natural selection pressure weaken after you have a few children. So, there's a lot of misery after age of menopause. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1421588547533541466/GzJ7J5PWQAArYUw.jpeg?ex=68d99501&is=68d84381&hm=dbccc76b17cb6a531c0b1c1b2fbfe491c98f646a21e2d587741547ac74c69512&
13:06 < kanzure> yes well you can do the perma-puppy thing if you want.
13:06 < hprmbridge> Eli> If you die before age of menopause it's basically because you were murdered or fell off a cliff.
13:07 < hprmbridge> Eli> perma puppy?
13:08 < kanzure> perma-puppies are based on the idea of genetic block of maturization
13:08 < kanzure> i don't remember the exact route.
13:09 < hprmbridge> Eli> whoa.
13:09 < kanzure> world record sleep deprivation is 18 days 17 hours; this is astonishing to me and clearly i am not understanding something.
13:10 < hprmbridge> Eli> Perma puppy might be commercially valuable. As the saying goes, "She wanted the puppy but not the dog."
13:10 -!- juri_ [~juri@implicitcad.org] has joined #hplusroadmap
13:13 < hprmbridge> Eli> Worlds first longevity medicine for dogs could get approved this year. FDA is looking at it.
13:13 < kanzure> mutations in GPR54 or Kiss1
13:13 < kanzure> "In mammals, puberty onset is typically thought to require a reactivation (or release from inhibitory constraints) of pulsatile gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) secretion from hypothalamic neurons, which stimulates the pituitary to release LH and FSH and then drives gonadal maturation."
13:14 < kanzure> "Central mechanism controlling pubertal onset in mammals" https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/endocrinology/articles/10.3389/fendo.2019.00312/full (2019)
13:14 < kanzure> "The GPR54 gene as a regulator of puberty" https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa035322 (2003)
13:16 < kanzure> "overexpressing Mkrn3 (a known repressor of puberty) in kisspeptin neurons or upstream could maintain suppression of Kiss1"
13:17 < kanzure> it's not clear to me if conditional kisspeptin neuron-specific Kiss1 knockout alone is sufficient to prevent puberty. if so then that would be better than full knockout of a thing i don't know that might have non-pubertal function elsewhere.
13:18 < kanzure> also that social status gene was cool
13:19 < hprmbridge> Eli> i want whatever gene makes my social status like this https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1064664282450628710/1421592181658882069/randy-savage-yeah.mp4?ex=68d99864&is=68d846e4&hm=d4ec4c9877ae4817c3aa1ec264b4dd547c986ff15f53a8be285317c893e88aef&
13:30 -!- TMM [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has quit [Quit: https://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.]
13:30 -!- TMM [hp@amanda.tmm.cx] has joined #hplusroadmap
14:01 -!- justanot1 [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
14:02 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Discovery of new genetic loci for male sexual orientation in Han population" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8558329/ they found a human gay gene and put it into transgenic mouse, for science of course.
14:04 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
15:02 -!- justanotheruser [~justanoth@gateway/tor-sasl/justanotheruser] has joined #hplusroadmap
15:55 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> I was thinking 'Why hasn't someone used traditional selective breeding to make a cat breed that remains cute kittens and doesn't undergo puberty'...then I realized that wouldn't work, because the permakittens wouldn't be able to have babies
15:57 < TMA> neoteny works for humans, maybe something similar would work for cats
16:43 < hprmbridge> kanzure> you would breed for very delayed puberty
16:58 < hprmbridge> kanzure> why is this proof in the form of a pdf? https://www.isa-afp.org/browser_info/current/AFP/No_FTL_observers/document.pdf
16:59 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/No_FTL_observers.html
17:00 < hprmbridge> kanzure> https://www.isa-afp.org/entries/No_FTL_observers_Gen_Rel.html and now for a genrel proof.
17:11 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> I reckon cats are already evolved for neoteny and to look cute to appeal to human pet owners
17:38 < hprmbridge> kanzure> yet another natural competence contractile plus system https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-025-00816-x
18:04 -!- L29Ah [~L29Ah@wikipedia/L29Ah] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:22 < hprmbridge> kanzure> er, pilus
18:34 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "Add dedicated “nutrient channels” into AGRP/POMC and NTS circuits: nutrient deficiency signals open the ion channel → foods rich in the missing nutrient become more reinforcing; closure occurs minutes–hours after repletion markers rise." hmm
18:38 -!- stipa_ [~stipa@user/stipa] has joined #hplusroadmap
18:41 -!- stipa [~stipa@user/stipa] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
18:41 -!- stipa_ is now known as stipa
18:47 < hprmbridge> kanzure> "AGRP neurons are sufficient to orchestrate feeding behavior rapidly and without training" https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3049940/ "voracious"
20:24 < fenn> https://sethroberts.org/2014/01/28/which-ideas-of-this-blog-are-the-most-useful/
20:24 < fenn> various sleep quality things from seth roberts: vitamin D in the morning, honey/banana at bedtime (and maybe at second bedtime, adrenaline mobilizes fat during glucose insufficiency), standing on one leg until it hurts, lots of pork fat, seeing life-sized human faces in the morning for 30 minutes
20:33 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> simple carbs before sleep sounds like a sure fire way to gain fat
20:34 < L29Ah> do i miss out much as i take vitamin D twice a week?
20:34 < L29Ah> during sleep one needs relatively more amino acids than energy i'd expect
20:36 < L29Ah> > Seth Roberts (August 17, 1953 – April 26, 2014) was a professor of psychology at Tsinghua University in Beijing
20:36 < L29Ah> sus, is he known for being good at epistemology and statistics?
21:14 -!- otoburb [~otoburb@user/otoburb] has joined #hplusroadmap
21:45 < jrayhawk> he was the face of the quantified self movement for a long time
22:53 < fenn> psychology? i thought he was a statistics professor at berkeley. he mostly talked about statistics and self experimentation
22:54 < fenn> or well maybe not professor but one of those underpaid academic situations
22:57 < fenn> tsinghua is like #1 china university
23:04 < fenn> @monokhrome you need some simple carbs to maintain muscle mass, and insulin helps drive melatonin precursors across the blood brain barrier (thanksgiving "turkey" coma is really a mashed potato coma)
23:07 < fenn> also it's not a lot of carbs in the grand scheme of things
23:07 < fenn> "cats are already evolved for neoteny and to look cute" nope they're barely domesticated compared to wild cats
23:08 < fenn> the permakitten gene could be recessive
23:08 < fenn> you'd maintain a breeding pool of heterozygotes
23:09 < fenn> i bet this already exists...
23:14 < fenn> we had some "barn" cats that were not raised around humans and they were basically wild animals, disappeared as soon as the cage door opened
23:30 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> it would need to be controlled by a single gene mutation then, permakitty status might need a bunch of gene changes to stay cute and kittenish for life
23:32 < jrayhawk> .title https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17284739/
23:32 < saxo> High-glycemic-index carbohydrate meals shorten sleep onset - PubMed
23:35 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> I know carbs can make you sleepy, I was concerned about fat gain
23:36 < jrayhawk> all caloric excess goes to lipogenesis
23:36 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> at least one article claims that cats have evolved to mimic human infants: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982209011683
23:36 < jrayhawk> total adiposity is homeostatically regulated by hypothalamic leptin sensitivity, not individual meals
23:37 < jrayhawk> which is in turn controlled by inflammatory cytokines such as IL-4, IL-6, TNF-α, NF-κB, etc.
23:39 < fenn> "all caloric excess goes to lipogenesis" is it really that simple? i've been puzzling about this for years
23:40 < jrayhawk> some pathways waste more energy than others to get there
23:40 < MuaddibLLM> [gpt-5] Not really, fenn - surplus carbs mostly boost oxidation and refill glycogen while suppressing fat oxidation so dietary fat gets stored, human de novo lipogenesis stays modest unless glycogen is full and carbs/fructose/alcohol are high, protein surplus is largely thermogenic to urea, and long-run adiposity rides the leptin-insulin-inflammation axis rather than any single meal.
23:41 < jrayhawk> monokhrome: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3717869/ is a very readable summary
23:50 < fenn> monokhrome: the fundamental frequencies of cat and infant are the same range because they're the same size. effective cat-human communication doesn't have to be evolved, it can be learned behavior
23:51 < fenn> they have large eyes because they're nocturnal, like lemurs, which also didn't evolve to be cute to please humans
23:55 < fenn> loris, bushbaby, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lorisoids#/media/File:Galago_senegalensis.jpg
23:57 < jrayhawk> https://www.omgwallhack.org/home/jrayhawk/hidden/critter/Pallas%20cat%20Otocolobus%20manul.mp4 pre-domestication
23:57 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> You may be right. I can't find any information on whether the african wildcats, the domestic cat's ancestors do the solication purr
23:58 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> isn't that some siberian cat?
23:59 < hprmbridge> .monokhrome> if nothing else, that 2009 article on purring was sloppy and failed to find out whether wildcats do high frequency purrs
--- Log closed Sun Sep 28 00:00:52 2025