| --- Log opened Fri Dec 30 00:00:51 2011 | ||
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| jrayhawk | ubuntu might have that if you apt-get install alsa-oss and aoss bash | 01:32 |
|---|---|---|
| jrayhawk | or modprobe snd_pcm_oss, but that's cheating | 01:33 |
| Utopiah | http://mirror.fem-net.de/CCC/28C3/mp4-h264-HQ/ | 01:40 |
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| JayDugger | Thank you, Utopiah. | 01:57 |
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| Utopiah | http://www.brainlinksystem.com | 02:51 |
| Utopiah | JayDugger: np | 02:51 |
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| Moktato | Good morning | 09:09 |
| kanzure | hmm? | 09:54 |
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| Moktato | Finally got the epoc working on the 5yo | 10:24 |
| Moktato | she loved it, she can do the stuff on spirit mountain way better than I can, apparently | 10:24 |
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| kanzure | netsplist :( | 11:21 |
| kanzure | netsplits :( | 11:21 |
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| kanzure | does anyone remember what company quantumg worked for? | 11:38 |
| kanzure | it was some infosec outfit in australia | 11:38 |
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| brownies | hey, can someone help me with a quick favor? trying to get an academic paper, proving rather difficult to find lying around online | 11:53 |
| * Mokbortolan_ doesn't have the academic-paper mojo. :( | 11:54 | |
| brownies | http://psycnet.apa.org/index.cfm?fa=buy.optionToBuy&id=1993-40718-001 | 11:54 |
| brownies | it's a classic! | 11:54 |
| brownies | supposedly. i'd know if i could actually read it. | 11:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but, I did find this: http://projects.ict.usc.edu/itw/gel/EricssonDeliberatePracticePR93.pdf | 11:55 |
| brownies | um, wow. that... is impressive. | 11:56 |
| brownies | i spent like 20 minutes googling and couldn't turn it up | 11:56 |
| brownies | Mokbortolan_: thanks man | 11:56 |
| kanzure | >_> | 11:56 |
| brownies | how... seriously, what did you google to get this?! | 11:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | search term: The role of deliberate practice in the acquisition of expert performance. pdf | 11:56 |
| kanzure | scholar.google.com filetype:pdf | 11:56 |
| brownies | mm i was doing filetype:pdf The role of etc. | 11:56 |
| Mokbortolan_ | 2nd link | 11:56 |
| kanzure | oh i only get "The influence of experience and deliberate practice on the development of superior expert performance" | 11:57 |
| kanzure | whatev | 11:57 |
| brownies | yea, see, i was getting a bunch of papers *referencing* it | 11:57 |
| brownies | anyway. i will do some more delibrate practice around googling things. -_- | 11:57 |
| brownies | thanks again Mokbortolan_ | 11:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | The google and I have an excellent relationship | 11:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | no problems :p | 11:57 |
| Mokbortolan_ | glad to help, looks like an interesting read, too | 11:58 |
| brownies | yea, i've been on a whole behavioral econ + operant conditioning thing lately | 11:58 |
| brownies | s/thing/reading marathon | 11:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I've been reading about IIS 7.0 :( | 11:59 |
| brownies | my sympathies | 11:59 |
| kanzure | brownies: i saw the weirdest paper recently, | 11:59 |
| * Mokbortolan_ gets paid to click "Next" | 11:59 | |
| kanzure | where there was a gene that disabled fear-based operant conditioning | 11:59 |
| kanzure | Mokbortolan_: you get paid to click "Click here" | 12:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | mostly Next, Finish, and OK | 12:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but I'm paid very well, so I can't complain too much | 12:00 |
| Mokbortolan_ | though this current gig is about to drive me crazy | 12:01 |
| Mokbortolan_ | a man can only do so much not work | 12:01 |
| kanzure | http://dx.doi.org/10.1126/science.1208049 | 12:01 |
| kanzure | "Lin and her colleagues found that Npas4 turns on a series of other genes that modify the brain’s internal wiring by adjusting the strength of synapses, or connections between neurons." | 12:01 |
| kanzure | "When the researchers knocked out the gene for Npas4, they found that mice could not remember their fearful conditioning. They also found that this | 12:01 |
| kanzure | uced by knocking out the gene just in the CA3 region of the hippocampus. Knocking it out in other parts of the hippocampus, however, had no effect." | 12:01 |
| kanzure | 11:49 < kanzure> i find it a little strange that 'contextual fear conditioning' can be narrowed down to a single transcription factor even if it is 'upstream' | 12:01 |
| Mokbortolan_ | crazy, how did they knock out a gene in a particular region of the brain? | 12:02 |
| kanzure | Cre/loxP recombination-based gene deletion | 12:02 |
| kanzure | see http://www.ccb.ufsc.br/~andre/artigos/Tsien96.pdf | 12:03 |
| brownies | scumbag kanzure ... talks about interesting paper ... links to paywall. | 12:04 |
| brownies | yea that does sound fascinating though | 12:04 |
| brownies | strictly speaking, is fear-based conditioning really operant conditioning? | 12:04 |
| kanzure | probably not | 12:04 |
| brownies | i thought that "no negative reinforcement" was a pretty fundamental tenet of operant conditioning | 12:05 |
| kanzure | wait, is the fact that "We broke some gene, and this broke some behavior!" really that surprising | 12:05 |
| kanzure | oh maybe it was only that behavior that was effected | 12:05 |
| brownies | right | 12:08 |
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| bkero | kanzure: is that rocketry conversation actually between you and carmack? | 14:24 |
| kanzure | yeah apparently | 14:25 |
| bkero | hah nice | 14:26 |
| bkero | What mailing list was that? | 14:26 |
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| kanzure | bkero: arocket | 14:28 |
| kanzure | on exrocketry | 14:28 |
| bkero | ah | 14:29 |
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| Mokbortolan_ | anybody have any good docs on NLP they'd like to share? | 14:38 |
| kanzure | augur: you? | 14:39 |
| augur | no | 14:39 |
| augur | i dont do NLP | 14:39 |
| augur | NLP is a waste of time, to be honest | 14:39 |
| Mokbortolan_ | yeah, I'm kind of on the fence about it, just wanted to read a bit | 14:40 |
| augur | Mokbortolan_: library.nu has plenty of things you can read | 14:40 |
| kanzure | brownies: didn't you just get done saying library.nu is dead? | 14:40 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's got a simpsons clip on the front | 14:40 |
| kanzure | try gigapedia or library genesis (libgenesis) | 14:40 |
| augur | uh | 14:41 |
| augur | gigapedia _is_ library.nu | 14:41 |
| kanzure | well. that would explain a few thinsg. | 14:41 |
| augur | gigapedia proper got shut down and they relocated to a new domain... | 14:41 |
| augur | if you go to gigapedia.com it jst redirects now | 14:42 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the whole "tricking women into sleeping with you" thing gives me a bad feeling | 14:43 |
| kanzure | most people feel good about sex | 14:43 |
| kanzure | just sayin' | 14:43 |
| augur | yes, well, thats because tricking women into sleeping with you is called rape | 14:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | thanks for pointing me at libgenesis kanzure | 14:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | found three good erickson texts | 14:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | they're rare as hens teeth otherwise, it seems | 14:45 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I wonder if it has that salter book | 14:46 |
| Mokbortolan_ | nope :( | 14:50 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it seems like the world has forgotten Andrew Salter | 14:50 |
| augur | regarding nlp, the most recent triumph is watson | 15:02 |
| augur | and when you look at how it does what it does | 15:02 |
| augur | its really a fucking joke | 15:02 |
| augur | like, its embarrasing how crummy it is | 15:02 |
| kanzure | are we talking about natural language processing or neurolinguistic programming | 15:02 |
| augur | the former | 15:02 |
| augur | unless IBM has gotten into the business of bullshit newage crap | 15:03 |
| kanzure | "cloud" | 15:03 |
| augur | :x | 15:03 |
| augur | but like | 15:03 |
| augur | watson is basically just looking for n-gram correlations in documents | 15:03 |
| augur | maybe its doing some sophisticated stats over these correlations, but thats still all its doing | 15:03 |
| augur | so when you ask it something like | 15:04 |
| augur | who was the president of france during the nazi occupation or whatever | 15:04 |
| augur | all it does is look for correlations between "nazi" and "president of france" | 15:04 |
| kanzure | some people complaining about the occt licensing and CLA http://dev.opencascade.org/index.php?q=node/30 | 15:06 |
| kanzure | augur: i don't think watson counts as nlp | 15:06 |
| kanzure | what about all the lexical analysis stuff | 15:06 |
| augur | kanzure: i can tell you that watson is doing what the vast majority of NLP is doing | 15:07 |
| augur | watson is situated well in the core of NLP | 15:07 |
| augur | what lexical analysis stuff | 15:07 |
| kanzure | i don't know, i'm making stuff up | 15:07 |
| augur | :P | 15:08 |
| kanzure | i have vague memories of papers that dealt with stuff much more interesting than n-grams in nlp | 15:08 |
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| kanzure | but i can't recall any, so i'm probably making it up | 15:08 |
| augur | oh sure, theres lots of other interesting things besides n-gram analysis | 15:09 |
| augur | but n-gram stuff is _incredibly_ common | 15:09 |
| augur | because its so darn cheap to do | 15:09 |
| augur | anything more complex, that involves, say, structure | 15:09 |
| augur | requires an enormous effort to build the grammar and to parse | 15:09 |
| kanzure | yes | 15:09 |
| augur | far faster and easier to just do n-gram | 15:09 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure i've seen stuff like "read a paragraph from a story, now re-tell this part of the story based on available information" | 15:10 |
| augur | sure, but that's not NLP, that's AI, or classic computational linguistics | 15:11 |
| Mokbortolan_ | oh, I was talking about neurolinguistic programming | 15:11 |
| augur | unless we're talking about practical things like using a bunch of info and a blurb to randomly generate some article for a newsfeed or whatever | 15:12 |
| augur | Mokbortolan_: neurolinguistic programming is bullshit | 15:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | that's my take on it so far | 15:12 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I've been reading Erickson's stuff, what NLP is supposed to be based on | 15:13 |
| augur | i dont know who erickson is but ill wager he's full of shit | 15:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | trying to find 50's era takes on it | 15:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hahaha | 15:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | Milton Erickson | 15:14 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you should look him up before you declare him full of shit, it's the least you can do :p | 15:15 |
| augur | i wont even bother | 15:15 |
| Mokbortolan_ | fair enough | 15:16 |
| kanzure | hmmm who's my nlp person in here.. where's enki2? | 15:17 |
| Mokbortolan_ | your opinion on the matter seems like it would be of little consequence anyway :p | 15:17 |
| augur | theres not much consequence to have | 15:19 |
| augur | its like homeopathy | 15:19 |
| Mokbortolan_ | indeed | 15:19 |
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| augur | oh a midcentury psychiatrist | 15:20 |
| augur | how utterly unsurprising | 15:21 |
| augur | so basically everything he said was demonstrably pure opinion and had no basis in science | 15:21 |
| augur | good to know | 15:21 |
| Mokbortolan_ | you sound so familiar with the topic | 15:21 |
| augur | there was a scandal, of sorts, some time n the 60s | 15:22 |
| augur | when a number of major psychiatric hospitals were demonstrated to be unable to distinguish between real mental illnesses and the imagined mental illness that the doctors saw after being told there was one (despite the person not having one) | 15:23 |
| Mokbortolan_ | was that the one where a number of people went to psychiatric hospitals and pretended to be ill upon admission, and then tried to get out again? | 15:23 |
| augur | yes | 15:23 |
| augur | where by "pretended to be ill" is "said they were ill but never demonstrated it" | 15:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I remember reading about that | 15:24 |
| augur | essentially it demonstrated that the field was primarily fed by extreme confirmation bias on the part of the psychiatrists. they expected to see schizophrenia so they saw schizophrenia, or whatever, regardless of the actual behavior of the patient | 15:24 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sounds about right | 15:24 |
| augur | the result was that the majority of psychiatric hospitals, at least as they existed at the time, ended up being shut down | 15:25 |
| Mokbortolan_ | as well they should have been, things were in a barbaric state at that time | 15:25 |
| augur | the only psychological science im trusting of is experimental psychology, primarily of the cogntive/neural sort. | 15:25 |
| augur | everything else is pure opinion. even psychiatrists will admit this, if pushed -- illness is defined as what is culturally unacceptable in the society | 15:26 |
| augur | which is no definition of illness at all | 15:26 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I'm not in disagreement | 15:27 |
| augur | the whole thing is, __by its own admission__, nothing more than a cultural police force under the guise of medicine | 15:27 |
| augur | so i reserve the right to utterly discount everything the psychiatrists want to say about anything | 15:27 |
| Mokbortolan_ | sometimes it seems as though it's prettifying the results of our culture's effect on individuals | 15:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | and you are welcome to do so | 15:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | my interest lies in the phenomenon of hyponsis, and Mr. Erickson was an early experimenter | 15:28 |
| Mokbortolan_ | hypnosis | 15:29 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so, by studying his perspective, I can learn more about the phenomenon. | 15:29 |
| augur | im skeptical that such a thing even exists | 15:30 |
| augur | ive yet to see any actual evidence to this effect | 15:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I can assure you that it does exist | 15:30 |
| Mokbortolan_ | but, my assurance is not worth much :p | 15:30 |
| kanzure | fenn: how are timezones/calendars going to work when we're all traveling at relativistic interstellar speeds? :/ | 15:30 |
| kanzure | the software for timezones barely works as it is | 15:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | UTC ticks along nicely without the need for timezones | 15:31 |
| Mokbortolan_ | it's a solar phenomenon anyway | 15:31 |
| kanzure | yes, but the reality is that you need to plan your calendar based on your days | 15:31 |
| kanzure | most people synchronize their sleep with calendar days based on their timezone | 15:31 |
| kanzure | fenn is an interesting case because his sleep schedule is fucked up | 15:32 |
| augur | kanzure: obviously you just use whatever calendar you want using your onboard clocks | 15:32 |
| kanzure | http://fennetic.net/sleep/cairo.html | 15:32 |
| kanzure | blue is sleep | 15:32 |
| augur | and convert underlying units | 15:32 |
| kanzure | each line is 24 hours | 15:32 |
| augur | Earth Calendar -> Earth UTC -> Relativistic UTC -> Relativist Calendar | 15:32 |
| augur | also that link doesnt work | 15:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | augur: what's really frightening is that a good tenth of the population is extremely susceptible to hypnosis | 15:33 |
| augur | no theyre not | 15:33 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I believe it is the mechanism by which enculturation works | 15:33 |
| kanzure | really? the link works for me | 15:33 |
| augur | a good 10th of the population is extremely susceptible to money and/or being on stage and/or an easy way to bullshit people | 15:33 |
| augur | kanzure: it tells me it cant find a sever | 15:35 |
| augur | server* | 15:35 |
| augur | so.. | 15:35 |
| kanzure | why does it work for me | 15:35 |
| kanzure | what about http://www.fennetic.net/sleep/cairo.html | 15:35 |
| kanzure | oh well, you can just watch him blab his mouthflap in a video | 15:35 |
| kanzure | http://quantifiedself.com/2011/12/fenn-lipkowitzs-amazing-lifelog/ | 15:35 |
| kanzure | why does it work for me6 | 15:35 |
| kanzure | irssi error, ignore that | 15:35 |
| augur | that one works | 15:36 |
| augur | with www | 15:36 |
| Mokbortolan_ | assertions made without evidence can be dismissed without evidence: http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/002344.html | 15:36 |
| augur | interesting, i suppose. | 15:40 |
| Mokbortolan_ | trance states exist and they are very interesting IMHO | 15:41 |
| Mokbortolan_ | unless you believe those people who receive surgeries with hypnotic pain control techniques simply have absurdly high pain tolerances :p | 15:43 |
| Mokbortolan_ | how is it that people acquire irrational beliefs, anyway? | 15:46 |
| brownies | well, the inverse is deeper ;) how the hell do they manage to hang on to them in the face of countervidence? | 15:46 |
| brownies | kanzure: it's not *dead,* it just went private so now it's useless to me | 15:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | the power of "the unconscious" | 15:47 |
| Mokbortolan_ | same mechanism as phobias, I think | 15:47 |
| augur | brownies: why is it useless to you | 15:47 |
| augur | what do you mean private | 15:48 |
| brownies | augur: because i don't have an account =( | 15:48 |
| augur | make one? | 15:48 |
| Mariu | it's private | 15:48 |
| brownies | ..... | 15:48 |
| kanzure | o.o | 15:48 |
| augur | its been that way since at least the gigapedia days | 15:48 |
| Mariu | I guess you can't make an account while it's private | 15:48 |
| augur | uh | 15:48 |
| brownies | yea but back in the day they had a login/register *and* it was public | 15:48 |
| brownies | i guess they removed the "register" link right when they went private | 15:49 |
| brownies | thereby becoming useless to me. | 15:49 |
| augur | oh i see, theres no obvious registration link. ok | 15:50 |
| brownies | is there a non-obvious registartion link? | 15:50 |
| strangewarp | What is more likely: Acquiring irrational beliefs, or acquiring irrational beliefs due to hypnotic suggestion? The one which requires the fewest specific variables is more likely. | 15:50 |
| kanzure | blah blah blah rationality blah | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I think that's a false dichotomy there | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | I think that hypnosis is the underlying mechanism | 15:51 |
| brownies | augur: found the registartion link but it's empty | 15:51 |
| strangewarp | It may be a dichotomy, but if so then it is part of a spectrum. | 15:51 |
| kanzure | strangewarp: clearly you have too much time available :3 how'd you like to do some css for me | 15:51 |
| Mokbortolan_ | rather than something additional tacked on | 15:51 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: I'm bad with CSS. | 15:51 |
| kanzure | crap.. well | 15:51 |
| kanzure | do you have a liking for hatsune miku | 15:52 |
| kanzure | i've been meaning to get this webgl hatsune miku thing working: | 15:52 |
| augur | Mokbortolan_: then youve got a problem | 15:52 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/hatsunemikugl/ | 15:52 |
| Mokbortolan_ | or, perhaps more clearly, the practice of hypnosis utilizes the natural phenomenon of suggestion | 15:52 |
| augur | because more than 10% of the population has irrational beliefs | 15:52 |
| strangewarp | Hatsune Miku, that's the vocaloid thing? | 15:52 |
| kanzure | yes, i wanted to get it working as a webgl demo | 15:52 |
| Mokbortolan_ | augur: most of them acquired during childhood | 15:52 |
| brownies | bah. this is ridiculous. books should just be free. | 15:52 |
| augur | Mokbortolan_: then that answers your question, doesnt it | 15:52 |
| strangewarp | Mokbortolan: If hypnosis is an underlying mechanism, that's sill more specific than there being no underlying mechanism. | 15:52 |
| brownies | and i can pay the artist... er, author... if it's good. | 15:53 |
| kanzure | brownies: libgenesis | 15:53 |
| augur | how do people acquire irrational beliefs: by being dumb children | 15:53 |
| augur | i mean, i think its obvious how people acquire irrational beliefs | 15:53 |
| kanzure | people don't 'acquire' a belief like a disease, | 15:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | is it? | 15:53 |
| kanzure | you can't just open up their skull and point to "The Beliefs" | 15:53 |
| kanzure | that's BS | 15:53 |
| kanzure | you should stop believing in beliefs | 15:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | kanzure: you don't think beliefs are memes? | 15:53 |
| augur | they're told that they're true, from people they trust, and end up incorporating these things into their world view | 15:53 |
| Mokbortolan_ | exactly | 15:54 |
| Mokbortolan_ | during a period of high "suggestibility" | 15:54 |
| augur | there is no period of high suggestibility | 15:54 |
| augur | everyone does this all the time | 15:54 |
| augur | we believe people we trust because thats what trust is | 15:54 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: I'm not familiar with vocaloid. Generally I've stayed away from VSTs and DSPs. Presently coding a MIDI sequencer for my weird hackish music setup. So.. I'd help with your vocaloid thing if I could, but I have no relevant experience with that particular area | 15:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | so if someone you trust told you about the crumpus, you'd believe him? | 15:55 |
| augur | if i had reason to believe he was a reliable source, yes, unless of course it conflicted with my pre-existing beliefs in which case i would challenge the idea | 15:55 |
| Mokbortolan_ | after childhood the logical mind seems to interpose itself between the outside world and the inside - in varying degrees | 15:55 |
| augur | childhood is suffused with such things as well | 15:56 |
| augur | and adults are not insusceptible to picking up irrational beliefs | 15:56 |
| augur | and not due to any special suggestibility | 15:56 |
| augur | just due to lack of understanding how to think rationally, lack of care to check whether something is true, desire to believe, etc. | 15:56 |
| brownies | what is this "crumpus" | 15:56 |
| augur | brownies: its like a crumpet only latin | 15:57 |
| brownies | i believe in that | 15:57 |
| brownies | that sounds tasty. | 15:57 |
| augur | also, brownies, any time you want something from library.nu let me know | 15:57 |
| augur | unless that time is right now. | 15:57 |
| strangewarp | kanzure: Tangentially... I think I dislike LessWrong's high-level goals just as much as you do, and for similar reasons. I just developed my nose for reasoning while still a fanboy for them. When I whip out Occam's Razor I'm trying to help; sorry if the incidental rhetoric is similar. :x | 15:57 |
| brownies | augur: sooo 5 minutes from now? | 15:58 |
| brownies | just need one book, atm. or i could take 5 minutes to give you a big list =D | 15:58 |
| augur | brownies: thats part of my now | 15:58 |
| Mokbortolan_ | augur: it's not a special suggestibility, it's the one that is already there | 15:58 |
| augur | oh ok | 15:58 |
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| brownies | you and your "time" | 15:58 |
| augur | one book | 15:58 |
| augur | /fine/ | 15:58 |
| brownies | ok, let me grab the exact title | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | can we stop talking about beliefs about beliefs? :/ | 15:58 |
| augur | Mokbortolan_: but thats what im saying, i dont think there is such a thing as suggestibility | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | take that to lesswrong | 15:58 |
| augur | NEVAR | 15:59 |
| augur | ##not-hplusroadmap? | 15:59 |
| Mokbortolan_ | augur: how does that jive with the practice of hypnotic surgery? | 15:59 |
| @kanzure | there's #lesswrong | 15:59 |
| brownies | augur: here or PM? | 15:59 |
| Mariu | there's no wrong | 16:00 |
| augur | brownies: here is fine | 16:01 |
| brownies | augur: this one http://press.princeton.edu/titles/4247.html | 16:01 |
| augur | just link me to the book on library.nu | 16:01 |
| brownies | library.nu search is restricted access ... i tried. | 16:01 |
| brownies | if they don't have that ^ i'll settle for the abridged version | 16:02 |
| @kanzure | wait, how do you know if it's on library.nu then? | 16:02 |
| brownies | i don't. i just assumed they had every book. | 16:02 |
| brownies | don't they? | 16:02 |
| brownies | damn expensive books | 16:03 |
| augur | is it really | 16:04 |
| augur | wow | 16:04 |
| augur | brownies: now available on library.nu | 16:05 |
| brownies | what? | 16:05 |
| brownies | now == not? | 16:05 |
| @kanzure | brownies: try searching on library genesis | 16:06 |
| brownies | i did. | 16:06 |
| Steel_ | any of you actually been to singularity university? | 16:08 |
| @kanzure | i've been. | 16:09 |
| @kanzure | a few times. not as a student. | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | any thoughts on it? | 16:09 |
| Mariu | how is it ? | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | (I don't plan on going as a student either) | 16:09 |
| @kanzure | if you can get them to waive the payment, it's an ok vacation | 16:09 |
| @kanzure | if you just want to show up and hang out, it's about the same | 16:09 |
| @kanzure | just without the room/board/food, and they usually only let you sit in on one lecture or something | 16:09 |
| Steel_ | Ah | 16:10 |
| Steel_ | how do you feel about the efficacy of the lectures? | 16:10 |
| @kanzure | you don't go there for the lectures | 16:10 |
| @kanzure | if you want the lectures, watch the youtube videos | 16:10 |
| @kanzure | you go there to meet people who can afford to drop 25k on learning about "THE FUTURE" or to be told about makerbot | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | hmm | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | does it tend to be business-y types? | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | or trust fund singularitarians? | 16:11 |
| @kanzure | there's not many trust fund singularitarians :) | 16:11 |
| augur | brownies: not** | 16:11 |
| augur | yes. | 16:11 |
| @kanzure | there's an 'executive' class- that's definitely businessy | 16:11 |
| Steel_ | hmm, something else to change | 16:11 |
| @kanzure | i really want to do a transhumanist bootcamp | 16:12 |
| Mariu | ! | 16:12 |
| Steel_ | poke me if you do. | 16:12 |
| augur | kanzure: where, crucially, the boots are cybernetic | 16:12 |
| @kanzure | instead of lectures, you learn actual skills like tissue cultures, programming, rocketry, machining, asskicking | 16:12 |
| Mariu | ^^ | 16:12 |
| @kanzure | i could teach or organize one, but i'm not focused or sold on it yet | 16:12 |
| @kanzure | most people who have 25k to blow don't want to learn how to machine or how to build lab equipment | 16:13 |
| Steel_ | I still want to see if there's demographic breakdown of CNS activation strength (if it can even be measured) | 16:13 |
| sylph_mako | brownies: the crumpus, I'd presume, is the krampus. Speaking of which, does anyone know where I can acquire krampus horns? You can't buy horns. Unless you're an austrian who wants to get drunk with his mates and run around on the December streets scaring children. Then the market for horns comes to you. | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | man, i hate this: i can either convert this ass-old svn repository to git or i can write a script to parse out maps from old pokemon red roms | 16:14 |
| strangewarp | There are a couple furries who could custom-build resin horns for you, I think... I forget who they are, though | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | one of these sounds more fun than that.. | 16:14 |
| @kanzure | strangewarp: uh? | 16:15 |
| strangewarp | @sylph_mako | 16:15 |
| sylph_mako | kanzure, why move away from svn? | 16:15 |
| @kanzure | sylph_mako: it's an old project someone dumped on me, and the team would like to hack on it under git | 16:15 |
| Mariu | 'Then the market for horns comes to you.' hahaha epic ! | 16:16 |
| strangewarp | I saw one who was making resin horns recently, actually.. let me do a bit of searching.. | 16:17 |
| sylph_mako | strangewarp, why would people make horns? Do dismembered horns from animals degrade too fast? | 16:17 |
| strangewarp | In some countries, there are laws against selling animal parts without a license, or at all; and I think actual animal horns do degrade unless they've been taxidermied? And even then, there are a lot of people who want custom shapes or sizes... | 16:18 |
| strangewarp | sylph_mako: Looks like this person is making and selling resin horns: http://www.furaffinity.net/user/starborneworks/ | 16:19 |
| sylph_mako | Yeah I haven't decided on shape. I'm rather fond of curly ram horns but I could find something better. | 16:19 |
| brownies | do you need a taxidermatologist for that? | 16:22 |
| strangewarp | let's not mak any rash presumptions :I | 16:23 |
| strangewarp | make, even. spelling fail | 16:23 |
| sylph_mako | I'm unsure how to affix them to my head in a natural manor. | 16:25 |
| strangewarp | That is a puzzler.. I have no experience in the area | 16:25 |
| strangewarp | You could stick them to a headband or mask with certain resins, I think.. | 16:26 |
| sylph_mako | Implantation would probably necessitate skull reinforcement. So I cbf doing that. I also might have to shave patches.. | 16:26 |
| strangewarp | Yeah, you don't want anything resin-based interacting with biological tissues; I'm just talking in terms of costuming | 16:27 |
| sylph_mako | Some kind of metal frame, perhaps. | 16:28 |
| sylph_mako | Hehehe. | 16:28 |
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| Steel_ | wait, are you trying to actually have horns? | 16:33 |
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| strangewarp | KO | 16:33 |
| Mariu | :o | 16:33 |
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| strangewarp | I know there are certain preparations for coral that will fuse to bone, under certain conditions... but for horns, you'd have to do some pretty complicated things at the area where they break the skin, to prevent infection, and I don't think anybody has worked on that problem except in the context of fusing permanent metal prosthetics to leg bones and what-have-you.. | 16:45 |
| eudoxia | horns have their uses, but a forearm rectractable blade, Adam Jensen style would be better at the whole asskicking thing | 16:51 |
| eudoxia | for kanzure's h+ camp's asskicking courses | 16:51 |
| jrayhawk | you know what would be even better for asskicking? a holster and gun | 16:53 |
| sylph_mako | I never really considered that they'd confer the ability to gore people. It's mostly a statement. | 16:53 |
| Mariu | Adam Jensen !!! | 16:53 |
| Mariu | yay ! | 16:53 |
| strangewarp | Well, technically, you'd just have to find a material that says to skin, 'Hey, attach yourself here!!', and then put a ring of it around the base of each horn... | 16:54 |
| eudoxia | Yes, but with a gun,m you have to pull it out, pull back that thing on the back, make sure the safety allows you to kick some ass | 16:54 |
| strangewarp | For that, I'd definitely advise specially prepared coral horn-shapes.. | 16:54 |
| eudoxia | and if there isn't a round in the chamber then fuck | 16:54 |
| eudoxia | nobody EVER expects a forearm blade | 16:54 |
| jrayhawk | why yes, if i am utterly unprepared for asskicking, i will indeed have a hard time doing any asskicking | 16:54 |
| eudoxia | all they'll ever know is the cold steel moving up their throats and then you shout SURPRISE MOTHERFUCKER | 16:55 |
| strangewarp | I am having trouble being enthusiastic about killing people, hm | 16:56 |
| Mariu | how would one sleep ? | 16:56 |
| sylph_mako | That's good. Enthusiasm doesn't help. | 16:56 |
| jrayhawk | phpht, i bet you played a pacifist Jenson | 16:56 |
| jrayhawk | pansy | 16:56 |
| Mariu | when having hornes I mean | 16:56 |
| eudoxia | I actually played rather pacifist | 16:56 |
| Mariu | *horns | 16:56 |
| jrayhawk | me too :( | 16:56 |
| eudoxia | Until they tried to kill Malik and then I snapped | 16:56 |
| sylph_mako | Good point. If I sleep on my back I'll snore. | 16:56 |
| strangewarp | Mariu: fluffy pillows | 16:56 |
| Mariu | =p | 16:57 |
| strangewarp | I didn't play any Jenson, since I'm a poor-ass mooch who doesn't get video games :p | 16:57 |
| sylph_mako | Don't worry, it wasn't about transhumanism. Only the story was. | 16:58 |
| jrayhawk | I hear it's possible to pacifist+ghost the malik section, but man I didn't see how. | 16:58 |
| sylph_mako | The gameplay had little to do with it. | 16:58 |
| eudoxia | Well how will the gameplay be h+-related? | 16:58 |
| eudoxia | 'Install a neuroprosthethic on this guy' minigames? | 16:58 |
| sylph_mako | Well you'd have expect people to focus on augmentations we'll actually have to start worrying about in future. | 16:58 |
| sylph_mako | Things like added senses. | 16:59 |
| Mariu | does Deus Ex 3 have anything h+ related ? I'm curious about that as well | 16:59 |
| sylph_mako | IDK I remember thinking they wern't being good sci-fi. I don't remember what my objections were very clearly. | 16:59 |
| jrayhawk | Deus Ex is entirely h+ related. | 16:59 |
| Mariu | ^_^ | 16:59 |
| Mariu | cool then | 16:59 |
| sylph_mako | Oh yeah, there was the fact that your superhuman strength gets used up like ammo. | 17:00 |
| sylph_mako | What the ass were they thinking. | 17:00 |
| eudoxia | well they have to add limitations | 17:00 |
| eudoxia | Otherwiser you could've just run around the whole game stabbing people with those cool ass forearm blades | 17:00 |
| jrayhawk | Which was actually possible, but took a lot of waiting around. | 17:01 |
| Mariu | will be nice to have augmentation that make you fly | 17:01 |
| Mariu | *augmentations | 17:01 |
| sylph_mako | If they hadn't they might have actually had to design a game that transcends the current status quo of combat. That would be too hard. | 17:01 |
| jrayhawk | The new Syndicate game will theoretically include a lot more mind-hacking gimmicks. | 17:02 |
| sylph_mako | Wont that also necessitate lightening your bones[and carrying very little] or spending a ton on fuel? | 17:02 |
| sylph_mako | Because exploiting software vulnerabilities is like playing a mini game. | 17:02 |
| strangewarp | Fly in a realistic haptic simulation in whatever body you want, problem solved | 17:03 |
| sylph_mako | Hacking should be like: You buy a crack from some dealer, you use it, it's effortless. Then the targets fix the vulnerability at some point later on. | 17:04 |
| Mokbortolan_ | isn't that what metasploit is? :p | 17:05 |
| eudoxia | 'whatever body you want' has a lot of problems with mapping | 17:05 |
| eudoxia | If the character has wings and a tail contact on those has to be sent somewhere to make it realistic | 17:05 |
| sylph_mako | ? | 17:06 |
| strangewarp | eudoxia: I had the same argument at one point, but I was convinced the human nervous system is more plastic than people give it credit for, after someone did the sixth-finger thought-experiment on me | 17:06 |
| sylph_mako | Ait. | 17:07 |
| eudoxia | strangewarp: I agree completely, it's just, isn't it a little expensive for a gaming experience to have to cut someone's skull open and put some wires in the sensory and motor neurons | 17:07 |
| eudoxia | It will be feasible once everyone has ethernet cables on their scalp | 17:08 |
| strangewarp | For now, definitely.. and, yeah | 17:08 |
| sylph_mako | Hm. I'd imagine shells would try to map familiar extremities; a tank's cannon might map to a particular throat muscle. | 17:09 |
| sylph_mako | No that would be a terrible mapping :D | 17:09 |
| eudoxia | Fire a shell = throw up | 17:10 |
| sylph_mako | It would feel so cool. And strange. | 17:10 |
| eudoxia | I would imagine that with something like an upload, sensory and motor neurons going down the spine would be arrayed and you could have different 'drivers' providing different mappings | 17:12 |
| eudoxia | so the standard one would map those to a virtual body model of a baseline human | 17:13 |
| eudoxia | or you could unplug the driver for your, say, left hand and plug a driver for an industrial Stewart platform | 17:13 |
| eudoxia | all sorts of crazy shit | 17:13 |
| ybit | i want h+ bootcamp to happen | 17:13 |
| sylph_mako | Your talk of plugs reminded me what I'm supposed to be doing right now. | 17:14 |
| sylph_mako | I need to make input device connections explicit and malleable, all in a way that's accessible to any old user. | 17:14 |
| strangewarp | Hmm, I need to be coding some silly MIDI things in a silly-bad language right now, myself | 17:15 |
| sylph_mako | for instance; the user could wire a second keyboard to a particular X window. And they could see how the primary keyboard runs through all kinds of routers, the window manager's focus tracker sitting just before the end of the chain. | 17:16 |
| sylph_mako | strangewarp, how do you bring yourself to use a silly-bad language? I'd tend to end up just sitting there trying to figure out how to fix it. | 17:18 |
| strangewarp | Mostly because it didn't seem so silly-bad when I'd started learning it, and now I'm stuck writing an important program in it | 17:18 |
| eudoxia | which reminds me I'm supposed to be writing a Lisp-to-C++ translator | 17:18 |
| sylph_mako | Why would you do that? | 17:19 |
| eudoxia | so I can use Qt, of course | 17:19 |
| sylph_mako | Hm. | 17:19 |
| ybit | eudoxia: qt mobile? | 17:21 |
| eudoxia | just regular desktop Qt | 17:21 |
| ybit | heh | 17:21 |
| ybit | personally, i think you should revive the haskell/qt bindings :) | 17:22 |
| ybit | have you played around with that lang? | 17:22 |
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| eudoxia | Haskell? no, not really. I liked your mascot though | 17:23 |
| eudoxia | From the examples I've seen it has too much syntax | 17:23 |
| ybit | i would like to go through sicp at some point, but there's a lot on my plate atm | 17:24 |
| ybit | have been forcing myself to listen to spanish broadcasts going down the road | 17:24 |
| eudoxia | I tried reading SICP, too academical | 17:24 |
| ybit | when i could be listening in on the class | 17:24 |
| ybit | i spent about as much time reading as i did watching | 17:25 |
| ybit | and i learned more reading | 17:25 |
| eudoxia | I was using Common Lisp which is a good non-academic Lisp but holy god the error messages | 17:25 |
| mokmok | We should all just get it over with and learn esperanto | 17:25 |
| ybit | read the first chapter and watched the first lesson | 17:25 |
| mokmok | Then we can get back to building the space elevator | 17:25 |
| Urchin | I've watched SICP lectures, those were, well, a bit strange, but good, has helped me with C, actually | 17:26 |
| Urchin | Common Lisp I tried to learn, but I was missing some fundamentals at the time | 17:26 |
| eudoxia | It's the only language I was productive with, but as soon as I tried to walk out of the language core and try some of the libraries | 17:27 |
| eudoxia | oh god | 17:27 |
| eudoxia | you ever saw those libraries last updated in 2003, that have three mailing lists dedicated to them and absolutely zero documentation? | 17:28 |
| Urchin | no, missed that part, I'm afraid | 17:28 |
| Urchin | I never fully learned that language | 17:29 |
| eudoxia | well, I sort of meant in a general way | 17:29 |
| Urchin | *or even reasonably well | 17:29 |
| eudoxia | it can't be exclusively a common lisp disease | 17:29 |
| @kanzure | offline html5 wikipedia http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3409512 | 18:04 |
| @kanzure | in my comment i point to git.js and a wikipedia version dumped into git | 18:04 |
| @kanzure | http://scytale.name/blog/2009/11/announcing-levitation | 18:04 |
| @kanzure | http://www.readwriteweb.com/hack/2011/08/gitjs-a-git-implementation-in.php | 18:04 |
| ybit | why is git.js needed? | 18:17 |
| ybit | i thought about doing dvcs in js but didn't see the point | 18:18 |
| ybit | does the future really have to be js+git+webkit? | 18:18 |
| @kanzure | no it doesn't have to be that way | 18:20 |
| @kanzure | but for mobile there's certain advantages to html over a proprietary app store | 18:20 |
| ybit | i understand this | 18:21 |
| ybit | let's just stick to why git.js for now | 18:21 |
| ybit | """ | 18:23 |
| ybit | Now you can run git on a non-jailbroken iOS device? | 18:23 |
| ybit | . | 18:23 |
| ybit | . | 18:23 |
| ybit | . | 18:23 |
| ybit | I got nothin'. | 18:23 |
| ybit | """ | 18:23 |
| ybit | from http://www.reddit.com/r/javascript/comments/ili1n/gitjs_a_git_implementation_in_pure_javascript/ | 18:23 |
| * ybit walks away from comp | 18:25 | |
| @kanzure | yep.. you got it | 18:41 |
| @kanzure | or you can run git in a web browser for someone who is too lame to install it | 18:41 |
| JayDugger1 | Well, that's pretty interesting... | 18:46 |
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| JayDugger | And now my name works fine. | 18:53 |
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| JayDugger | I think QuantumG worked for Raytheon, 50%? | 19:19 |
| @kanzure | raytheon? that might be it | 19:28 |
| JayDugger | Yeah, it came up in conversation with him when I mention Raytheon working on an Android-based tablet or PDA for the American military. | 19:28 |
| JayDugger | Since then I read rumors that users kept buying models off-the-shelf. | 19:29 |
| JayDugger | s/mention/mentioned | 19:30 |
| jrayhawk | fwiw git is too inflexible and unscalable for something like Wikipedia | 19:55 |
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| @kanzure | jrayhawk: yeh so let's just store everything in mysql | 19:55 |
| @kanzure | with a custom revision control system | 19:55 |
| jrayhawk | You're going to have to make a custom revision control system sooner or later, and MySQL, while bad in a lot of ways, is still going to work out better than, for instance, packfiles. | 19:57 |
| jrayhawk | That said, Mediawiki's revision control system is garbage. | 19:58 |
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| @kanzure | hi Argentum | 20:01 |
| @kanzure | logs are http://gnusha.org/logs/2011-12-30.log | 20:01 |
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| kanzure | jrayhawk: newrepo should complain when a reponame would probably cause an invalid username | 22:12 |
| kanzure | for instance, 99repo | 22:12 |
| jrayhawk | huh | 22:15 |
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| jrayhawk | that 99repo thing is fixed | 22:47 |
| Moktarino | http://www.plxwave.com/ | 22:47 |
| Moktarino | that is way uglier than the epoc | 22:48 |
| jrayhawk | As long as their sensors are better... | 22:49 |
| kanzure | thanks jrayhawk | 22:49 |
| Moktarino | I'm just trying to make myself feel better for spending 3x as much and not having an android interface | 22:49 |
| kanzure | :) | 22:49 |
| kanzure | to be fair! i told you that you would be disappointed | 22:50 |
| kanzure | i suppose this was after you purchased it | 22:50 |
| kanzure | can you return it? | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | naa | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | it's OK | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | this works fine | 22:50 |
| kanzure | no the whole point is that it's *not* okay | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | I might get one of those other ones too | 22:50 |
| kanzure | refuse inferior technology! | 22:50 |
| kanzure | hehe | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | it's not inferior | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | and besides, I had a saturn | 22:50 |
| kanzure | "Just different" | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | and I liked it! | 22:50 |
| kanzure | hah | 22:50 |
| Moktarino | my brother got a playstation | 22:51 |
| Moktarino | I got a saturn | 22:51 |
| Moktarino | I guess that's the major downside of being an early adopter | 22:52 |
| kanzure | you also know about neurosky yes? | 22:52 |
| Moktarino | of bluetooth 4.0 | 22:52 |
| Moktarino | nope | 22:52 |
| kanzure | or openeeg | 22:52 |
| Moktarino | I've heard of openeeg | 22:53 |
| Moktarino | and I remember it being in a pretty raw state last I looked | 22:53 |
| Moktarino | the neurosky doesn't scream dork as much as the plxwave thing | 22:55 |
| Moktarino | but it's also not bluetooth | 22:56 |
| Moktarino | how many channels is the neurosky? | 23:15 |
| Moktarino | 1? | 23:15 |
| kanzure | don't recall.. 1 sounds right? | 23:16 |
| Moktarino | Hmm | 23:18 |
| Moktarino | the plxwave says "8 EEG bands" | 23:18 |
| Moktarino | ahhh, those refer to alpha/beta/etc | 23:19 |
| Moktarino | wow though, I'm doing the "SMR enhancement" session | 23:26 |
| Moktarino | I really feel more awake... | 23:26 |
| Moktarino | maybe it's psychosomatic, and "SMR enhancement" is supposed to make me sleepy... | 23:26 |
| Moktarino | SMR neurofeedback doen't look like it wakes you up.. | 23:29 |
| kanzure | links? | 23:31 |
| Moktarino | http://www.eegspectrum.com/Applications/ADHD-ADD/EfficacySMR-BetaIntro2/ | 23:32 |
| Moktarino | whatever it does, it made all of my eyestrain stop | 23:34 |
| --- Log closed Sat Dec 31 00:00:53 2011 | ||
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