| --- Log opened Thu Aug 30 00:00:11 2012 | ||
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| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/Swartz,%20Aaron%20Indictment.pdf | 01:13 |
|---|---|---|
| @kanzure | so i hadn't read this, but it appears that he was using mailinator :P | 01:13 |
| @kanzure | "gary host" "ghost" | 01:15 |
| brownies | kanzure: and Grace Host! | 01:16 |
| brownies | hahah | 01:16 |
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| @kanzure | "keepgrabbing.py" | 01:17 |
| @kanzure | lolz "“Keepgrabbing2.py” had distinct similarities to “keepgrabbing.py.”" | 01:18 |
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| @kanzure | it's funny because my secret identity is "john testing" (johntesting@mailinator.com) of "john testing solutions, ltd." | 01:21 |
| @kanzure | but ghost makes more sense i guess | 01:21 |
| brownies | did they subpoena Mailinator? | 01:24 |
| @kanzure | no | 01:24 |
| @kanzure | or, i don't think so | 01:24 |
| @kanzure | they probably just saw that he was using those email addresses | 01:24 |
| @kanzure | mailinator has to receive a tremendous amount of email.. no way they are keeping any of it | 01:25 |
| brownies | yeah but they probably keep server logs right? | 01:26 |
| brownies | i.e. it's not what you use if you're actually serious about privacy | 01:26 |
| @kanzure | oh sure, i just use mailinator when i don't care | 01:26 |
| brownies | yeah, same. | 01:29 |
| @kanzure | why are you awake | 01:29 |
| @kanzure | aren't you supposed to be writing paranoid deletion stuff? | 01:29 |
| brownies | bleh | 01:29 |
| brownies | spent like an hour chasing a heisenbug ... now i'm eating dinner and procrastinating | 01:29 |
| brownies | i've been super unproductive lately. i should just block all the timewasters. | 01:30 |
| brownies | why are YOU awake? isn't it like 4am for you? | 01:30 |
| @kanzure | i mistimed some amphetamine intake because i'm an idiot | 01:30 |
| brownies | solid reason | 01:31 |
| archels | kanzure: pm | 01:33 |
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| @kanzure | archels: counter pm | 01:44 |
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| archels | http://www.nature.com/news/calorie-restriction-falters-in-the-long-run-1.11297 | 04:58 |
| archels | well, fuck. | 04:58 |
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| chris_99 | http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-07/25/mit-algorithm | 05:27 |
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| foucist | chris_99: yeah someone pasted that in #startups, my comment was that it seems like a trivial development, but i didn't look at the paper | 06:12 |
| chris_99 | i want to know what kind of camera they used and it's fps rate | 06:13 |
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| chris_99 | 'processes 640 × 480 videos at | 06:17 |
| chris_99 | 45 frames per second' | 06:17 |
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| kanzure | sokushinbutsu: hi | 10:04 |
| sokushinbutsu | hey | 10:05 |
| sokushinbutsu | have we talked on irc before? | 10:05 |
| sokushinbutsu | i normally hang out in #reddit-nootropics | 10:05 |
| kanzure | no, we've never talked. | 10:07 |
| delinquentme | sokushinbutsu, kanzure is into noots | 10:14 |
| kanzure | "pen Source Ecology is currently recruiting two key members to our team: a Master Prototyper and a Machine Designer. This is part of our work on the Global Village Construction Set (GVCS)." | 10:16 |
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| delinquentme | THIS | 10:39 |
| delinquentme | http://medgadget.com/2012/08/stanford-cooling-glove-more-dope-than-steroids-video.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Medgadget+%28Medgadget%29&utm_content=FaceBook | 10:39 |
| delinquentme | from 180 pullups >> 620 over 6 weeks | 10:39 |
| delinquentme | with COOLING. | 10:39 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, lets make these. | 10:39 |
| chris_99b | what do they use, peltier? | 10:40 |
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| chris_99b | oh haha | 10:40 |
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| chris_99b | that reminds me of Zoolander | 10:43 |
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| kanzure | nmz787: hi | 10:52 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, the glove? | 10:53 |
| chris_99b | yeah | 10:53 |
| nmz787 | hi | 10:55 |
| nmz787 | I posted that Eulerian Video Magnification link to a ciocurious discussion about a month ago | 11:06 |
| nmz787 | but I think the organism has a shell | 11:06 |
| nmz787 | so it may not have shown any noticable patterns | 11:06 |
| delinquentme | dude | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | this s NUTS | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, start weight lifting :D | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | its good for longevity | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, http://medgadget.com/2012/08/stanford-cooling-glove-more-dope-than-steroids-video.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Medgadget+%28Medgadget%29&utm_content=FaceBook | 11:07 |
| delinquentme | simple glove for heat exchange boosts performance ... substantially | 11:07 |
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| chris_99b | so what benefits does this glove give | 11:18 |
| chris_99b | i doubt you'd notice much difference unless you're already an elite athlete? | 11:18 |
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| chris_99b | what do you mean about the Eulerian video thing, they're using it to show peoples pulses | 11:20 |
| chris_99b | from what i can tell nmz787 | 11:20 |
| nmz787 | yeah | 11:20 |
| nmz787 | but it magnifies certain parameters | 11:21 |
| chris_99b | yeah like the colour | 11:21 |
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| nmz787 | this guy wanted some kind of feedback to tell if his mollusks or something were living OK | 11:21 |
| nmz787 | to test different growth additives and components | 11:21 |
| nmz787 | I think the code is all on MITs site | 11:21 |
| nmz787 | but I think the organisms have shells | 11:22 |
| nmz787 | so dunno if you'd be able to really magnify much of any phenomena | 11:22 |
| chris_99b | ah right, so someone wants to use that MIT stuff with a shelled creature | 11:22 |
| nmz787 | maybe an imaging spectrometer could... hmm | 11:22 |
| nmz787 | that's not a bad thought | 11:22 |
| nmz787 | well I suggested it | 11:23 |
| nmz787 | to the guy | 11:23 |
| chris_99b | or how about a FLIR | 11:23 |
| nmz787 | who was asking "how might I tell my thing is not dying, before it dies/is past point of no return" | 11:23 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, its a glove which increases vasodilation through a small vacuum and then acts as a heat exchanger | 11:23 |
| nmz787 | maybe FLIR would tell something, but I'm not sure | 11:23 |
| delinquentme | so like this could be built with 2 small pumps | 11:24 |
| chris_99b | yeah i read a bit about the vacuum delinquentme so it says it prevents muscle fatigue | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | one for the air and another for the water circulation | 11:24 |
| chris_99b | but surely you'd have to be pretty decent to get to the point it helps | 11:24 |
| delinquentme | no | 11:24 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: i havent read yet... but you could just go swimming | 11:25 |
| nmz787 | derp | 11:25 |
| chris_99b | hehe | 11:25 |
| nmz787 | heat derp exchanger derp all around | 11:25 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, true but you're not doing massive weight bearing while swimming | 11:25 |
| nmz787 | :P | 11:25 |
| nmz787 | why not | 11:25 |
| chris_99b | yeah just weight lift in the pool | 11:25 |
| chris_99b | hehe | 11:25 |
| delinquentme | you could but no one that I know of has stuck weights in a pool | 11:26 |
| delinquentme | im trying to figure out what specifically induces the performance benefit | 11:26 |
| nmz787 | there http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8DMs4ovKcY | 11:26 |
| delinquentme | "acute needs at peak exertion for heat dissipation " | 11:26 |
| nmz787 | so many "weight lifting underwater" | 11:26 |
| nmz787 | this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5WOAdzlpGs | 11:26 |
| kanzure | nmz787: so tom's post to diybio is a little unusual | 11:26 |
| kanzure | it sounds like operon was trying to do yeast cloning to figure out whether or not the gene was being expressed? | 11:27 |
| kanzure | and they didn't realize that it was just a promoter? | 11:27 |
| chris_99b | read this bit delinquentme ''In 2009, it was discovered that muscle pyruvate kinase, or MPK, an enzyme that muscles need in order to generate chemical energy, was highly temperature- sensitive. At normal body temperature, the enzyme is active – but as temperatures rise, some of the enzyme begins to deform into the inactive state. By the time muscle temperatures near 104 degrees Fahrenheit, MPK activity completely shuts down.'' | 11:27 |
| kanzure | gah i mean operon-the-company not operon-the-thing | 11:27 |
| delinquentme | HMMM! | 11:28 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, was that on the website? | 11:28 |
| chris_99b | yes | 11:28 |
| chris_99b | http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/august/cooling-glove-research-082912.html | 11:28 |
| chris_99b | oh it's a different website | 11:28 |
| chris_99b | but yeah | 11:28 |
| kanzure | nmz787: "It is possible the presence of folding motifs or the GC rich portion interfered with the correct assembly of the gene (we were unable to obtain a clone with the correct gene sequence)" | 11:30 |
| kanzure | "a clone" here refers to what? | 11:30 |
| chris_99b | delinquentme, so i say we build a suit that does this ;) | 11:30 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, you nailed it with whatever you googled | 11:31 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: just read | 11:31 |
| delinquentme | im looking at the patents atm | 11:31 |
| delinquentme | the balance needs to be struck where the vacuum is just sufficient to overcome the vessel constriction that happens with cooling | 11:31 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: it's because they aren't doing single molecule sequencing I think | 11:31 |
| delinquentme | vasoconstriction oddly enough :D | 11:31 |
| nmz787 | and because they aren't doing single molecule synthesis | 11:32 |
| kanzure | what are they doing, then? | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | same old same old | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | all current gen can't handle that kind of stuff | 11:32 |
| kanzure | so when they say "cloning" they mean some PCR reaction, not yeast cloning stuff? | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | or rather, handles it poorly | 11:32 |
| chris_99b | delinquentme, do you even have to have a vacuum | 11:32 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, yeah its probably quite influential | 11:32 |
| delinquentme | think about your hands in the cold | 11:32 |
| nmz787 | cloning is a not specific to a organism | 11:32 |
| delinquentme | its WAS an adaptive mechanism to constrict when it gets cold ... | 11:33 |
| kanzure | nmz787: i think i have a misunderstanding about when the word 'cloning' can be used :) | 11:33 |
| nmz787 | they don't use cloning | 11:33 |
| nmz787 | they say clone | 11:33 |
| kanzure | hmm. | 11:33 |
| nmz787 | the reactions are all bulk | 11:33 |
| kanzure | ok | 11:33 |
| nmz787 | then they bulk put them in bulk vectors | 11:34 |
| chris_99b | i think you could just whack a peltier on them, delinquentme ? | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | then do a bulk electroporation | 11:34 |
| kanzure | wait what? why are they using vectors at all?? | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | and dilute to spread the cells out far enough so only 1 cell will form a colony... rather than two close cells growing into the same visually detectable colony | 11:34 |
| kanzure | is this to increase the yield of the construct? | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | then the pick that colony, and PCR the vector, and sequence | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | and then find a good clone | 11:34 |
| nmz787 | that is identical to what text file you sent them | 11:35 |
| nmz787 | rather than checking the text file at the synthesis level | 11:35 |
| kanzure | so for some reason i assumed they would just synthesize -> pcr -> sequence | 11:35 |
| nmz787 | no, it would likely get lost... or PCR is more erroneous than in vivo amplification | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | plus they're not using microfluidics | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | if they were, sure on board PCR could work | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | but they're still just doing bulk synthesis | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | of 20-200 mers | 11:36 |
| kanzure | i think yashgaroth is a proponent of doing the colony picking for dna synthesis, he's mentioned it once or twice | 11:36 |
| kanzure | in some positive fashion | 11:36 |
| nmz787 | so the PCR would be heterogenous in data | 11:37 |
| kanzure | maybe there's some "dna repair" and "dna maintenance" benefits that you get out of the cells | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | yes | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | or you get a better polymerase that is slower | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | but has error correction | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | but its not perfect | 11:37 |
| nmz787 | but nano/microfluidics solves a lot of this time | 11:38 |
| kanzure | well, i blame failure of memory for me not identify their method as using-cells-as-reactors-for-dna-synthesis | 11:38 |
| kanzure | *identifying | 11:38 |
| nmz787 | that is why clone was there | 11:38 |
| nmz787 | "we were unable to obtain a clone with the correct gene sequence" | 11:38 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, MAYBE. | 11:39 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, but I think the function here is the net thermal capacity | 11:39 |
| delinquentme | do peltiers have that kind of total thermal capacity? | 11:40 |
| delinquentme | My guess is they'd be substantially less... | 11:40 |
| chris_99b | you can cool stuff pretty damn cold with them, to below freezing | 11:40 |
| nmz787 | just weightlift under a waterfall | 11:41 |
| nmz787 | geez | 11:41 |
| nmz787 | and use a water chiller | 11:41 |
| chris_99b | heh or that | 11:41 |
| delinquentme | dunk nuts on the lower half of squats? | 11:43 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, do you have pelts laying around? | 11:46 |
| chris_99b | yes | 11:46 |
| chris_99b | i've got ones that require a car battery to run ;) | 11:46 |
| chris_99b | (400W ones) | 11:47 |
| delinquentme | Hmmm | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: why not just lift in front of a big ass A/C | 11:47 |
| delinquentme | so you apply electricity and it gets cold ... why dont people use these in AC units? | 11:47 |
| nmz787 | or install A/Cs from multiple directions | 11:47 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, you no read article. | 11:48 |
| nmz787 | because they're not efficient | 11:48 |
| nmz787 | reading now | 11:48 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, heat exchange through most parts of the body is hindered by body fat, muscle etc | 11:49 |
| chris_99b | you need to cool the hell out of the hot side delinquentme | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | and heat exchange in the hands is hindered by vasoconstriction | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | so you need to fight that | 11:49 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, the wikipedia article says it can heat or cool | 11:49 |
| chris_99b | it can | 11:49 |
| chris_99b | it has a hot and cold side | 11:50 |
| delinquentme | I guess a plugin version would be interesting | 11:50 |
| gnusha | diyhpluswiki.git: fa4f3cb add a contact for egyptian diybio | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | chris_99, soooo how about a reading from those that you have | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | like whats the temp difference between the cool side and ambient | 11:51 |
| delinquentme | ALSO water / coolant would easily wrap around hands ... | 11:52 |
| delinquentme | are these peltiers stiff? | 11:52 |
| chris_99b | i know that you can easily get from 25C on one side or less to < 0 on the cold side | 11:52 |
| chris_99b | and yes they are stiff | 11:52 |
| delinquentme | id bet the best cooling spot would be the back of the hand | 11:53 |
| delinquentme | greatest vessel diameter + little to no body fat / muscle | 11:53 |
| delinquentme | BTW these sell for 3K a pop on their website :D | 11:53 |
| delinquentme | and they *do* have patents | 11:54 |
| chris_99b | link to the patent? | 11:54 |
| nmz787 | ok | 11:54 |
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| nmz787 | still seems like my mom who swims as primary excercise is covered | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | but pretty cool | 11:55 |
| nmz787 | could just have a weight room next to a swimming pool.... do a set, do a lap | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | http://www.google.com/patents?id=qdytAAAAEBAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=avacore&source=bl&ots=jFAC4kNxwc&sig=3Gcv61jjElePDIEnT2ExMEZtEUI&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lbA_UNe9H8Xv6wGe74GwBg&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=avacore&f=false | 11:56 |
| delinquentme | http://www.google.com/patents?id=-h0FAgAAEBAJ&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=avacore&source=bl&ots=nDenJPih_d&sig=xXvcYpkr08-1enfMCH2sbyAGA0M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lbA_UNe9H8Xv6wGe74GwBg&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=avacore&f=false | 11:56 |
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| delinquentme | nmz787, its the heat transfer | 11:56 |
| chris_99b | say you could cool yourself while running though nmz787 | 11:56 |
| chris_99b | that could be interesting | 11:56 |
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| delinquentme | you dont get heat transfer into your core as quickly swimming laps | 11:56 |
| nmz787 | i've never been overheated in water | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | specifically because you're cooling exteriors which leads to decreased blood flow in those areas | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | the function here is to drop the core temperature | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | i feel like the body would be smarter than that, aren't those blood vessels controlled by the neuro system? | 11:57 |
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| delinquentme | no | 11:57 |
| nmz787 | no? | 11:57 |
| delinquentme | the body is designed to constrict blood flow to spots that are cold | 11:58 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: is there a way to get the ikiwiki toc plugin to give semantic anchor names instead of stuff like "index17h1"? | 11:58 |
| delinquentme | why do you think your hands get cold in winter if you're a white male | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | "more convenient than, say, full-body submersion in ice water" | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | telling me if you don't like swimming, buy our product | 11:58 |
| delinquentme | but again if the function here... is to NOT decrease muscle temp ( external ) | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | my hands are always warmer than my dark girl | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | in the winter | 11:58 |
| nmz787 | it doesn't say don't decrease muscle temp | 11:59 |
| delinquentme | IDK my hands get cold in the winter .. it was adaptive | 11:59 |
| kanzure | "weightlifting under a waterfall" sounds bad ass, let's do that | 11:59 |
| delinquentme | it saved thermal energy and diverted it to the core | 11:59 |
| nmz787 | your hands get cold because of heat transfer to the cold air | 11:59 |
| delinquentme | and because of the process known as vasoconstriction | 11:59 |
| delinquentme | blood is shunted | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | and because your blood vessels close up so your core temp doesnt drop | 12:00 |
| delinquentme | ^^^^^^^^^^ | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | but i don't think that's the same when the rest of your body is hot | 12:00 |
| delinquentme | thats the process that the vacuum fights | 12:00 |
| delinquentme | but as you cool your hands | 12:00 |
| delinquentme | its a localized function | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | i don't think the vacuum does much, that seems like it could be explained by pressure physics | 12:00 |
| delinquentme | you want to retain the blood flow capacity | 12:00 |
| nmz787 | it would enable blood to enter, just as much as it would hinder it leaving | 12:01 |
| nmz787 | still seems like you would not overheat if you just worked out in a pond | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | just get rubber coated weights | 12:02 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | put all your stuff in the pool | 12:02 |
| delinquentme | I think your solutions are silly. | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | sure, but it would work | 12:02 |
| delinquentme | I like super gloves | 12:02 |
| delinquentme | and they're also cheaper than pools | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | if you are into running, well, i think thats silly, much worse than swimming on the knees | 12:02 |
| nmz787 | but you could prob just take a mold of your hand | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | make a negative, make it a little bigger, cast some metal around that, and there's your vacuum glove | 12:03 |
| nmz787 | or 3D scanner your hand | 12:04 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 6bb5233 buncha optics links, | 12:04 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 9c5e333 Merge branch 'master' of diyhpl.us:/srv/git/laser_etcher | 12:04 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, im totally about swimming. | 12:04 |
| delinquentme | but for weight lifting and the like ... swimming will cut and tone | 12:04 |
| delinquentme | swimming wont build mass | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | you need all of these things | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | right, which is why i said put the weights in the water | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | that /will/ work | 12:05 |
| kanzure | nmz787: what is "CD-ROM MECHANICS__COEN 180.htm" | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | a file | 12:05 |
| EnLilaSko- | lol nmz787 | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | but can we agree that these hand held jobs ... even at 3k a piece ... are cheaper than pools | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | like I think you're just trying to mess with me nmz787 | 12:05 |
| delinquentme | *pushes into pool* | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | I dont see it here http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/ | 12:05 |
| nmz787 | no | 12:06 |
| kanzure | ikiwiki doesn't handle files with spaces :P | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | i think a pool could be found for free on craigslist | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | grr | 12:06 |
| nmz787 | why isnt it here http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/CD-ROM%20MECHANICS__COEN%20180.htm | 12:06 |
| kanzure | nmz787: but you can find it here: http://diyhpl.us/cgit/laser_etcher/tree/ | 12:06 |
| kanzure | like i said, it's because ikiwiki doesn't do spaces | 12:06 |
| ThomasEgi | anyone ever tried to build a laser-etcher based on the same principle as a drum-scanner, just in reverse? | 12:07 |
| kanzure | in filenames. | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: interesting idea | 12:07 |
| ThomasEgi | at least for scanning they get insane high resolutions. and the mechanics are comparebly simple | 12:07 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: does the drum have a very good roundness and flatness profile? | 12:07 |
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| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 4fdc18b removed spaces | 12:09 |
| kanzure | nmz787: according to git, you deleted all the files | 12:10 |
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| kanzure | i mean, the files that you added | 12:10 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, i meant just the overall principle. you can get very precise drums off the shelf. | 12:10 |
| ThomasEgi | maybe something like a spinning table would make more sense here | 12:10 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 54a2153 removed another space | 12:11 |
| ThomasEgi | the whole point would be to avoid stacking 2 linear axis | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | http://diyhpl.us/laser_etcher/CD-ROM_MECHANICS__COEN_180.htm | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | there it is | 12:11 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: how about getting the PDMS onto the drum | 12:11 |
| ThomasEgi | hey i am no expert :D i was just throwing the idea into the room | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | if you added it wet, it would stretch after peeling off on one side (tension) | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | opposite would occur if you placed flat dry PDMS on a the drum | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | yeah interesting | 12:12 |
| kanzure | "Have you heard of Cycript? It's an open source JavaScript-ObjC bridge, maintained by Jay Freeman, the creator of Cydia. It currently supports this interactive console functionality (with tabbed autocomplete!), by injecting into a specified process." | 12:12 |
| nmz787 | maybe you could just have drum microfluidics | 12:13 |
| ThomasEgi | as i said. maybe having it on a flat disk that spins, like a cdrom, would work too. | 12:13 |
| kanzure | saurik strikes again | 12:13 |
| kanzure | http://cycript.org/ | 12:13 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, might work too. | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | ThomasEgi: I've thought of that, I even have some MATLAB/Octave code that's supposed to turn an image into a CD-ROM ISO for burning | 12:13 |
| nmz787 | but i don't remember messing with it too much after it didn't immediately work | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | but I want to avoid a pulsed writing system | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | rather, I want as few on/off cycles as possible | 12:14 |
| ThomasEgi | why? | 12:14 |
| ThomasEgi | that's just electronics. | 12:14 |
| nmz787 | I feel like pulsing would make jagged channels | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | well the laser is CW otherwise | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | constant wave | 12:15 |
| ThomasEgi | hm. it's not a diode-laser? | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | it is | 12:15 |
| nmz787 | but its CW | 12:16 |
| ThomasEgi | that's odd. | 12:16 |
| ThomasEgi | how many watts? | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | output is max 800mW I believe | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | in 405nm | 12:16 |
| ThomasEgi | uhm. | 12:16 |
| ThomasEgi | that.. should be totaly within pulseable limits | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | prob about 4 W at the power supply | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | yeah, but I dont want pulses | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | I want CW | 12:16 |
| nmz787 | to avoid jagged channel edges | 12:17 |
| ThomasEgi | what you want, is to avoid jagged channel edges, not to aloid pulsed lasers | 12:17 |
| ThomasEgi | appropriately handeled i see no problem there. | 12:17 |
| nmz787 | what's the advantage of pulsing? | 12:18 |
| ThomasEgi | you could use continous motion for the mechanics | 12:18 |
| ThomasEgi | less vibrations, easier to handle. | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | you mean DC motors? | 12:18 |
| nmz787 | instead of steppers? | 12:19 |
| ThomasEgi | i'd recommend 3phase motors for maximum smoothness | 12:19 |
| ThomasEgi | but if you would go with a drum like setup | 12:19 |
| nmz787 | hmm, I've heard the inertia will keep things smooth between steps | 12:19 |
| ThomasEgi | you can have the drum spin pretty fast and just meassure it's rpm. and moving the laser on a signle axis. | 12:19 |
| ThomasEgi | and the pulsing does the rest | 12:19 |
| TheEmpath | Can the thermodynamic arrow of time be definitively established pre-ignition of the Big Bang? | 12:20 |
| ThomasEgi | nmz787, i mean.. drumscanners are known to scan more than 10000ppi | 12:21 |
| ThomasEgi | try getting that with another mechanical setup. | 12:21 |
| ThomasEgi | bbl. need to go out shopping for some food. | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | me too | 12:22 |
| nmz787 | ttyl | 12:22 |
| jrayhawk | Re: ikiwiki toc anchors: no, ikiwiki has a poor relationship with anchors in general | 12:25 |
| jrayhawk | it'd be nice if headers generated at least 'id' attributes if not full anchors | 12:26 |
| jrayhawk | re: spaces in filename: it's possible to enable this. it's disabled by default to avoid problems with namespace collisions between spaces and underbars when compiling. | 12:27 |
| kanzure | oh i suppose the header thing should be a markdown thing, not an ikiwiki thing | 12:29 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah, probably. | 12:30 |
| jrayhawk | i wonder if my browser supports anchor-by-id | 12:30 |
| kanzure | i only learned about that recently.. wish i knew it earlier, would have saved a bunch of trouble | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | i was looking at a site that didnt have IDs where it had a visual 'anchor' | 12:33 |
| nmz787 | bold and bigger text or something | 12:33 |
| kanzure | by anchor i mean <a name="anchor_name" /> giving page.html#anchor_name a thing | 12:36 |
| kanzure | or <element id="blah"> giving page.html#blah in more recent browsers | 12:36 |
| jrayhawk | the links-family supports that | 12:38 |
| jrayhawk | it appears to be a 4.01 thing, at least | 12:39 |
| kanzure | this is what tom randall has been up to: http://www.roningenetics.org/Sequencing.html | 12:48 |
| kanzure | "The original data represents ~600 X coverage of the 40 Mb N. crassa genome." | 12:49 |
| kanzure | 600x coverage sounds sorta extreme | 12:49 |
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| nmz787 | kanzure: depends on the read length | 13:11 |
| nmz787 | and those wonky areas that are hard to synth/sequence | 13:11 |
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| nmz787 | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LdavB22YdU | 13:12 |
| nmz787 | whoops | 13:12 |
| nmz787 | wrong im | 13:12 |
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| superkuh | I received my first DMCA take-down request today. | 13:26 |
| delinquentme | ^^^ nice! | 13:26 |
| nmz787 | for what? | 13:28 |
| superkuh | Principles of Gene Manipulation and Genomics ebook, Rights Holder: John Wiley and Sons, Inc. | 13:31 |
| superkuh | http://superkuh.com/dmca001.html | 13:31 |
| chris_99b | w00t http://users.ecs.soton.ac.uk/msn/book/new_demo/hough/ | 13:33 |
| kanzure | http://blog.ioactive.com/2012/08/stripe-ctf-20-write-up.html | 13:34 |
| kanzure | superkuh: congratulations! took them forever. | 13:34 |
| nmz787 | chris_99b: see that's a quick algorithm in Java :P so it would be even faster in openCV | 13:35 |
| chris_99b | heh indeed, i was suprised how fast it was | 13:35 |
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| chris_99b | i've almost got all the stuff to make a crude magnetic stirrer now, except the magnets :) | 13:38 |
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| nmz787 | "Cleveland BioLabs has been trying to move its lead candidate, CBLB502, along this development path. The drug is an injectable recombinant derivative of a bacterial protein flagellin that activates signaling pathways and suppresses apoptotic cell death in hematopoietic and GI cells. The firm also is exploring CBLB502 as a radioprotectant in medical procedures. It has completed animal efficacy and human safety studies, and it has regul | 14:08 |
| nmz787 | seems like you'd want radiation-damaged cells to apoptose, rather than continue to possible mutate into a cancer | 14:09 |
| nmz787 | if that actually got approved, people would think it was great, but it could in reality just keep them coming back | 14:10 |
| nmz787 | hmm, this is the stuff of shrewd marketing I think by pharma... to keep themselves in business | 14:10 |
| kanzure | this is neat for tracing javascript execution flow on a page: https://github.com/Imaginea/FireFlow http://blog.imaginea.com/fireflow/ | 14:11 |
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| kanzure | python reverse engineering tools http://erpscan.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Python-arsenal-for-RE-1.1.pdf | 15:35 |
| kanzure | this looks like an amusing way to play with kernel memory dumps: https://github.com/trolldbois/ctypes-kernel | 15:41 |
| chris_99b | how do you dump RAM in these days, kmem or whatever seems no longer readable | 15:47 |
| chris_99b | *in linux | 15:48 |
| kanzure | pastebin monitoring service: https://github.com/xme/pastemon | 15:48 |
| kanzure | chris_99b: are you root when you try kmem? | 15:48 |
| chris_99b | yeah | 15:48 |
| chris_99b | they prevent you reading it now | 15:48 |
| kanzure | uhh ask jrayhawk | 15:48 |
| jrayhawk | IIRC it's a really stupid whitelisting-by-cmdline-string kernel option | 15:52 |
| jrayhawk | You can probably sudo -i; ln `which bash` /root/X; | 15:53 |
| jrayhawk | i suppose i should look up what they actually whitelist | 15:54 |
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| loanshark | helloo | 15:54 |
| kanzure | loanshark: get these. http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books/ | 15:55 |
| kanzure | they are linked now. | 15:55 |
| loanshark | ooh! | 15:55 |
| loanshark | thank you | 15:55 |
| loanshark | btw, i have a reading suggestion | 15:55 |
| loanshark | http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004H4XCVY/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title | 15:56 |
| loanshark | Biopunk: Solving Biotech's Biggest Problems in Kitchens and Garages | 15:57 |
| kanzure | why? | 15:57 |
| chris_99b | have you read it loanshark? | 15:57 |
| loanshark | I am reading it | 15:57 |
| kanzure | yeah i mean, after reading it, i can't really recommend it | 15:57 |
| kanzure | unless you're an anthropologist | 15:57 |
| loanshark | xD | 15:57 |
| loanshark | Its just an interesting read | 15:57 |
| loanshark | in my oppinion | 15:57 |
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| loanshark | opinion* | 15:58 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.pdf | 15:58 |
| chris_99b | i thought it was going to tell me how to create a glowing cat ;) | 15:58 |
| loanshark | -.- | 15:58 |
| skorket | evening everybody | 15:58 |
| kanzure | or if you need a .mobi file for some bizarre reason http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biopunk.mobi | 15:58 |
| loanshark | i just spent 13 hours moving my ship from dry dock to pier side waiting for flooding/fire | 15:59 |
| loanshark | so i had a lot of time to kill | 15:59 |
| loanshark | so i bought that book and I think its very informative, if you are interested in DIY bioengineering projects | 16:00 |
| jrayhawk | new solution: feed your cat https://www.unitednuclear.com/index.php?products_id=383 | 16:00 |
| chris_99b | in seriousness though the molecular biology of the cell looks awesome from skimreading it | 16:00 |
| kanzure | chris_99b: look at the molecular cloning book | 16:00 |
| chris_99b | ta i'll check it out | 16:01 |
| chris_99b | haha that looks fun jrayhawk | 16:01 |
| chris_99b | i've got one of those little tritium keyrings | 16:01 |
| loanshark | I'm currently reading molecular biology of the cell :3 | 16:01 |
| kanzure | we used to have way more unitednuclear.com links dropped in here... i miss that | 16:02 |
| kanzure | https://blog.gregbrockman.com/2012/08/system-design-stripe-capture-the-flag/ | 16:09 |
| kanzure | oh oops. that's not different. | 16:10 |
| chris_99b | has anyone ordered anything from Carolinatech | 16:15 |
| chris_99b | er, http://www.carolina.com | 16:16 |
| chris_99b | they say something about not shipping certain stuff to residential addresses | 16:16 |
| jrayhawk | a sure sign you're buying something good | 16:22 |
| chris_99b | heh | 16:24 |
| kanzure | chris_99b: i haven't personally ordered from them, but i've used a number of their products before | 16:32 |
| chris_99b | cool, pleased with them? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | uh, the gfp kit seemed to work | 16:33 |
| kanzure | it was one of those lame standard projects in a biology class in high school | 16:34 |
| chris_99b | i want some gfp to play with electroporation | 16:34 |
| chris_99b | you can use a microinjector can't you to introduce dna into any type of cell? | 16:48 |
| kanzure | so this looks like another patent defense pool: http://www.rpxcorp.com/ | 17:03 |
| kanzure | "As a provider of patent risk solutions, RPX helps corporations manage their exposure to patent litigation. We have introduced efficiency to the patent market by providing a rational alternative to traditional litigation strategy for our clients, offering defensive buying, acquisition syndication, patent intelligence, and advisory services." | 17:03 |
| kanzure | 'rational patent' | 17:03 |
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| kanzure_ | beep | 18:35 |
| * ThomasEgi activates the trainhorn | 18:36 | |
| -!- kanzure_ is now known as kanzure | 18:38 | |
| jk4930 | beep? hi there | 18:40 |
| brownies | boop | 18:40 |
| kanzure | hi brownies. | 18:42 |
| brownies | hello | 18:42 |
| brownies | kanzure: did i tell you i cured my DelayedJob woes? ...by using it in ways other than recommended by the README? http://build.thoughtbot.com/delayed-job/ | 18:42 |
| kanzure | so the solution is the "Store IDs, not records" thing? | 18:43 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: yo. | 18:48 |
| yashgaroth | whatup | 18:48 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/books | 18:48 |
| kanzure | i need something else to add to this | 18:48 |
| kanzure | sambrook doesn't actually go over "basic pcr" and "basic gels" or "basic cell culture" | 18:48 |
| yashgaroth | I'll glance over what I have and see if there's anything that fits the bill | 18:50 |
| brownies | kanzure: eh, the overall solution is to carve things out into standalone subclasses that are jobs, rather than just tacking .delay onto random things | 18:50 |
| brownies | once you architect with that in mind, it looks like other things fall into place... i was able to clean up code in other models/controllers. | 18:51 |
| kanzure | oh i see | 18:51 |
| kanzure | i never got into the habit of using .delay directly when i was using delayed_job | 18:52 |
| kanzure | i usually had tiny classes i'd write and then i'd make workers do those things somehow | 18:52 |
| kanzure | which is also very handy for long-lived tasks that you must run over the heroku console | 18:52 |
| brownies | apparently we have 600+ failed jobs just hanging out in the DJ table | 18:53 |
| brownies | thanks to the geniuses who architected DJ, it didn't plug into our existing app-wide error-notification system | 18:53 |
| brownies | and i've just been happily going on for weeks/months presuming it was all working. | 18:53 |
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| yashgaroth | so by 'basic' do you mean the principles, or a demo protocol? | 18:56 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: i don't want any more books that describe biology | 18:56 |
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| yashgaroth | sooo protocols | 18:56 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: yes | 18:57 |
| kanzure | but "methods in molecular biology" seems to immediately jump off the deep end with transgenic ewoks | 18:57 |
| yashgaroth | oh yeah that's a collection of esoterics | 18:57 |
| kanzure | there's a lot of skills you need to pick up before your ewok cell culture is going to even live a few days | 18:57 |
| yashgaroth | weaning ewok cells off of FBS is such a hassle | 18:58 |
| kanzure | i'm aware that a lot of the basics are picked up in an actual lab because of oral tradition | 18:58 |
| kanzure | buut there probably is some resource i'm forgetting? | 18:58 |
| brownies | gather 'round the bunsen burner, kids... time to learn how to culture a wooly mammoth | 18:59 |
| yashgaroth | hmm the protocol-online link is broken | 18:59 |
| kanzure | http://protocol-online.org/ works for me? | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | pretty much, I mean pcr is just template + primers + reaction mix + water | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | no, their "basic PCR" link | 19:00 |
| yashgaroth | http://www.protocol-online.org/cgi-bin/prot/jump.cgi?ID=3320 | 19:00 |
| kanzure | oh man, methodmint went down? they seem to be redirecting to some other lame thing http://methodmint.com/ | 19:01 |
| yashgaroth | guess the PI fucked one too many postdocs | 19:01 |
| kanzure | ah.. http://research.abl.es/ | 19:01 |
| kanzure | so, nobody uses methodmint/research.abl.es because biologists are anti-compooter | 19:01 |
| kanzure | and protocol-online.org still sucks | 19:01 |
| yashgaroth | yeah but their 'basic gel' protocol is ok...lemme read http://www.methodbook.net/dna/agarogel.html | 19:01 |
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| yashgaroth | I'd say more that computers are anti-biologist, but yes | 19:02 |
| kanzure | protocol-online.org is a terrible link aggregator, but that's basically what it is | 19:03 |
| yashgaroth | they seem to be quite old links to webpages of the rare helpful professor | 19:04 |
| kanzure | it has a few basic protocols in a few places, but it's not reliable in terms of "will there definitely be a rtPCR protocol" | 19:04 |
| kanzure | yeah | 19:04 |
| kanzure | methodmint was trying to use stackoverflow's ui to do protocols/voting, but it hasn't seemed to catch on | 19:04 |
| yashgaroth | it's not like biologists are good at organizing, like for example does rtpcr mean reverse transcriptase or real time? no one will step up and delineate | 19:04 |
| kanzure | oh well, acronyms are a bad idea in biology anyway | 19:05 |
| kanzure | *oh, well | 19:05 |
| yashgaroth | unless it's cox | 19:05 |
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| yashgaroth | hey at least they don't name proteins after the discoverer, I'd quit biology in that case | 19:06 |
| kanzure | khandradikanicase | 19:06 |
| kanzure | lakshomininitinate | 19:06 |
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| yashgaroth | chandrasekharkinin | 19:06 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: so, is there a book that goes over these basic protocols? | 19:07 |
| kanzure | 'cause i'm not aware of it | 19:07 |
| yashgaroth | anyway it is still a lot of 'bunsen burner tales' since the field doesn't recognize diybio at all...of course you don't need a centralized resource | 19:08 |
| kanzure | i think i often see basic protocols muttered in supplements sometimes | 19:08 |
| yashgaroth | oh no there's not that I know of | 19:08 |
| yashgaroth | even an SOP won't cite some canonical version of 'a gel' | 19:08 |
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| kanzure | SOP? | 19:08 |
| yashgaroth | standard operating procedure | 19:08 |
| yashgaroth | "we tell you to do it this way, which you never will, but we can blame you if you don't" | 19:09 |
| kanzure | brownies: what do you think? i've always wanted to replace http://protocol-online.org/ but i haven't figured out all the details (besides the technical crap) | 19:09 |
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| kanzure | yashgaroth: when i joined a lab once, i was handed some laminated cards with instructions for their basic pcr | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | mhm | 19:12 |
| kanzure | and for their gel mix they just had me copy something into a notebook | 19:12 |
| yashgaroth | there is a long, proud tradition of obfuscating sources in benchwork | 19:13 |
| kanzure | maybe one way to motivate people to care about good protocols would be checklists | 19:14 |
| kanzure | and they might care to update the checklist to make it easier to debug in the future, or something | 19:14 |
| yashgaroth | yeah that's the dream | 19:15 |
| brownies | checklists would be good | 19:15 |
| brownies | last time i joined a lab (which was a damned long time ago...) no one told me a damn thing | 19:16 |
| brownies | kanzure: why/how do you want to replace it? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | i want to replace it because it's fucking awful | 19:16 |
| brownies | wouldn't you basically have to crowdsource standard practices from all sorts of practitioners? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | and there's no accountability or way to improve it | 19:16 |
| brownies | and why would those practitioners want to write down stuff for you? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | yes, probably | 19:16 |
| brownies | unless you're a secret genius with like 18 nobel prizes, let's go with yes | 19:17 |
| kanzure | yeah, i don't claim to have that part figured out | 19:17 |
| kanzure | there's maybe the 'credibility' thing or the 'oh look at my publication record' thing | 19:17 |
| kanzure | but they would just publish in journals for that ;) | 19:17 |
| kanzure | methodmint is an interesting case for me because they applied the stackoverflow software to protocols, and it had a very small amount of activity (about 20 users) | 19:18 |
| brownies | i mean, wikipedia is a *great* resource for e.g. pure mathematics | 19:18 |
| kanzure | http://research.abl.es/methods/tagged/molecular-biology/ | 19:19 |
| kanzure | but the top one has '2 votes' wtf | 19:19 |
| brownies | but how did those mathematicians converge on wikipedia? and why? i have no clue. | 19:19 |
| kanzure | "6X DNA Loading Buffer for Agarose" and 1 user | 19:19 |
| kanzure | brownies: actually, they also converge on mathoverflow (anton's site) | 19:19 |
| brownies | kanzure: actually, derp. presumably the actual *methods* for many things are written down in published papers, which are... behind paywalls. | 19:20 |
| kanzure | yes, but most of those methods verge on esoteric | 19:20 |
| brownies | but if you're at an institution, you just find N papers who all used the technique of interest to do an expriment, read how they did it, maybe send some emails, and there you go. | 19:20 |
| brownies | why esoteric? | 19:20 |
| kanzure | in my experience if you're at an institution, you usually just have someone tell you once, but yeah | 19:20 |
| brownies | presumably the boring methods are also written down? | 19:20 |
| brownies | well, sure, that too. | 19:20 |
| kanzure | the boring methods are just shared in lab culture | 19:20 |
| kanzure | humans talking to humans and being friendly | 19:20 |
| kanzure | it's possible that methodmint got no attention because its creators weren't advertising | 19:21 |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: put on your bioglasses and tell me what you see? http://research.abl.es/methods/tagged/molecular-biology/ | 19:21 |
| brownies | yes, nerds are known for being highly socially adept and great public speakers -_- | 19:21 |
| kanzure | well, if your prof says "hey, you will need to run a gel on that, ask tobi" you go ask tobi | 19:22 |
| brownies | what if tobi is on vacation? | 19:22 |
| kanzure | and tobi will show you where the parts are stored | 19:22 |
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| kanzure | haha nobody goes on vacation in a lab man, it's a labor camp | 19:22 |
| yashgaroth | looks ok? I seem to remember reading a couple some months ago and being aghast | 19:22 |
| brownies | i read phd comics! there were vague mentions of occasional vacations! | 19:22 |
| kanzure | tobi is always there because he's from china and has a dreadful fear that if he leaves, just once, ever, that he wont have a job | 19:22 |
| yashgaroth | I guess you could scrape kit manufacturer protocols since so much benchwork is with pre-made kits nowadays | 19:23 |
| kanzure | true, kit makers probably have an incentive to make usable protocols | 19:23 |
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| kanzure | "your pcr mix never fucken works" is a bad review | 19:24 |
| kanzure | s/bad/normal | 19:24 |
| kanzure | brownies: so, i agree with you that most people who would benefit from thsi resource will just use their paywalls or colleagues | 19:25 |
| kanzure | but presumably there's incentives for others outside that system to contribute? | 19:25 |
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| * brownies ponders | 19:27 | |
| kanzure | brownies: btw here's the "math overflow" presentation | 19:27 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/open-science-summit-2011/Math%20Overflow%20Anton.pdf | 19:27 |
| brownies | the question is basically the same as the one for mathematicians | 19:27 |
| brownies | if you gave professional scientists in field X a place to collaborate with each other | 19:28 |
| kanzure | look at the presentation :poke: | 19:28 |
| brownies | and it *just so happened to be public* ... then the problem would be solved. | 19:28 |
| * brownies looks | 19:28 | |
| kanzure | haha, no, professional biologists would not collaborate in just one place that you give them | 19:28 |
| kanzure | that's not how they role | 19:28 |
| kanzure | openwetware didn't solve that | 19:28 |
| brownies | kanzure: yeah, the worrying answer is that math is compatible with this sort of collaboration, and other fields just aren't. | 19:29 |
| brownies | it is easy to rationalize that answer too, because for math all you need is pen and paper and brain | 19:29 |
| yashgaroth | and stimulants | 19:30 |
| brownies | heh | 19:30 |
| kanzure | also on mathoverflow you can "do" math | 19:30 |
| kanzure | you don't "talk about maybe possibly doing math" | 19:30 |
| brownies | well, that's the thing. math *is* just hanging out and thinking about stuff. you can go to someone's office and do it. | 19:30 |
| brownies | (or online, or whatever) | 19:31 |
| kanzure | also math is about revisiting the same topics a lot | 19:31 |
| brownies | whereas with e.g. biology you have to be all like "oh, good idea. let me go run 800 expreiments in the lab and get back to you in a month." | 19:31 |
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| kanzure | in biology you might do an experiment and remember some of the methods, but you'll probably move on to something else | 19:31 |
| kanzure | although, pcr is pretty fundamental, so that's not fair to say | 19:31 |
| yashgaroth | each pcr takes a lot of tweaking, moreso than most labwork | 19:31 |
| brownies | *i* don't remember how to run a PCR, but iirc it wasn't *that* complicated -_- | 19:31 |
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| brownies | i mean, on a scale of "make a sandwich" to "produce a glowing cat" it's closer to sandwich. | 19:32 |
| yashgaroth | sure, just with the caveat "10% of the time your sandwich will melt for no discernable reason" | 19:32 |
| brownies | good thing we're going to make a million sandwiches, then. | 19:33 |
| kanzure | shiiiiite http://dumps.mathoverflow.net/ | 19:33 |
| kanzure | hm, so, i find it sort of hard to believe that the answer is that "protocols can't get better because of the way that biology works" | 19:34 |
| brownies | i thought the answer was "protocols can't get better because biologists are assholes' | 19:35 |
| brownies | ;) | 19:35 |
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| kanzure | jmil: how does your lab do protocols/procedures? giant binder? | 19:35 |
| kanzure | brownies: i think the solution wouldn't target professors. it would be the undergrads/grad students. | 19:36 |
| brownies | kanzure: sidebar: why are all the acts_as_paranoid gems abandoned? =( | 19:37 |
| kanzure | professors aren't sitting around pipetting thing things. | 19:37 |
| brownies | kanzure: but wouldn't the undergrads just ask the grad students... | 19:37 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure this is for education | 19:37 |
| kanzure | i mean, for those institutions | 19:37 |
| kanzure | brownies: this was updated 4 months ago. is that abandoned? rails3 acts as paranoid | 19:38 |
| kanzure | dfjdkafkl | 19:38 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/goncalossilva/rails3_acts_as_paranoid | 19:38 |
| kanzure | "As of April 4, 2012, there have been 16,496 registered users to MathOverflow. So far, 28,601 questions have been posted. Questions are answered an average of 3.9 hours after they are posted, and "Acceptable" answers take an average of 5.01 hours." | 19:39 |
| brownies | kanzure: ugh. | 19:40 |
| kanzure | oh i see. "MathOverflow is very specific about what a user can or should post. Questions must be research level mathematics questions. If not, they will be promptly removed. Questions should be well-defined and specific." | 19:40 |
| brownies | kanzure: default_scope { where(paranoid_default_scope_sql) } # Magic! | 19:40 |
| kanzure | so, mathoverflow does it by deleting unworthy questions | 19:40 |
| kanzure | and only doing research-level stuff | 19:40 |
| brownies | well, yeah, they make it clear it's *for mathematicians* | 19:40 |
| kanzure | even mathematicians are sometimes unfamiliar with another area of math | 19:40 |
| brownies | and, honestly, you can't enforce that kind of stuff when it comes to diybio | 19:41 |
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| brownies | kanzure: yeah, but that unfamiliarity is usually couched in some research they're doing. "i'm researching X about Y, and i realized it requires basic knowledge of <obscure field>, so..." | 19:41 |
| kanzure | being an expert at culturing ecoli will convey you absolutely no skill in designing primers | 19:41 |
| kanzure | nmz787: how'd the meeting go? | 19:42 |
| kanzure | brownies: so, i don't think i can imagine a "research-level-only" biology protocols overflow site | 19:43 |
| kanzure | because most of the time when you're doing a new protocol, it's for a project that nobody is going to replicate unless it's something groundbreaking | 19:43 |
| kanzure | (like if it confers some new level of ability to others) | 19:44 |
| brownies | yeah, but a lot of math is like that too. it's not going to be terribly relevant, but people will still go "oh, that's interesting..." | 19:44 |
| kanzure | it's worth noting that openwetware.org doesn't do much for the biology community in terms of 'making protocols easier/more accessible' | 19:47 |
| kanzure | or 'organizing more protocols together' | 19:47 |
| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/Protocols | 19:47 |
| kanzure | oh that's hilarious: "The venerable qpcrlistserv. Anyone doing qPCR should be subscribed to this list." http://openwetware.org/wiki/Real-time_PCR | 19:48 |
| kanzure | oh nice it's actually a yahoo group -_- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/qpcrlistserver/ | 19:48 |
| kanzure | it's had activity since 2002? | 19:49 |
| kanzure | "If you wish to join this group, your application will only succeed if you give a qPCR reason for wishing to join. " | 19:49 |
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| kanzure | "Members: 3201" | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | not really here, but it went well, I talked... came up with a somewhat cool idea actually | 19:49 |
| nmz787 | but will talk later | 19:49 |
| brownies | so... there you go? | 19:49 |
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| kanzure | brownies: hm? a mailing list per protocol?? | 19:50 |
| brownies | no, i mean... that's where all the biologists are. | 19:51 |
| kanzure | last comment 2008 "http://openwetware.org/wiki/Electrocompetent_cells" | 19:51 |
| kanzure | oh but it has 10+ contributing authors on that page, that's nice | 19:52 |
| kanzure | openwetware has only 10986 users | 19:52 |
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| kanzure | http://openwetware.org/wiki/Special:Statistics | 19:53 |
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| jk4930 | may I interrupt with a question? | 19:55 |
| jk4930 | those protocols you're talking about are about doing (+ replicating) stuff in the lab? | 19:56 |
| brownies | yeah, basic usage of lab equipment and basic experiments and whatnot | 19:56 |
| kanzure | jk4930: like http://openwetware.org/wiki/DNA_Synthesis_from_Oligos | 19:57 |
| brownies | kanzure: is that good documentation in your opinion? that link? | 19:58 |
| jk4930 | and usually there are none and most knowledge is anecdotal (varying from lab to lab) | 19:58 |
| kanzure | brownies: you mean, in terms of "best that you're going to find on the web" or in terms of "do you like it"? | 19:58 |
| jk4930 | how is this handled in bigger labs? | 19:58 |
| kanzure | because i hate that | 19:58 |
| brownies | kanzure: yes, i also hate it. | 19:58 |
| kanzure | but it's proobably the best you will find on the interwebs | 19:59 |
| brownies | i am willing to believe, thoguh, that it's the best currently available... and i agree that is rather sad. | 19:59 |
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| kanzure | the fact that it's a wiki makes it 100x better than protocols-online.org ;) | 19:59 |
| yashgaroth | jk4930: in bigger labs, a stamp is applied to each copy of said anecdotal protocol | 19:59 |
| jk4930 | stamp meaning copyright | 19:59 |
| jk4930 | ? | 19:59 |
| yashgaroth | nah, just a stamp | 19:59 |
| kanzure | "so we talked to our biology greybeard, and this is what he said, so :stamp:" | 20:00 |
| jk4930 | -v | 20:00 |
| yashgaroth | looks official | 20:00 |
| jk4930 | and they don't share | 20:00 |
| brownies | what about corporations? surely giant research labs in corporations have documented protocols? | 20:00 |
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| yashgaroth | sure | 20:00 |
| kanzure | but it's probably just as bad as the other stuff that's written down | 20:00 |
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| kanzure | and certainly on average the quality is prolly the same | 20:01 |
| yashgaroth | no corporate research lab will ever consider releasing a protocol to "protowetment.org" though | 20:01 |
| yashgaroth | err *mint.org" but whatevs | 20:01 |
| kanzure | "current protocols in molecular biology" looks like a possibly useful publication | 20:01 |
| kanzure | ad: mcb.asm.org/content/12/4/local/advertising.pdf | 20:02 |
| kanzure | http://mcb.asm.org/content/12/4/local/advertising.pdf | 20:02 |
| kanzure | index: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/book/10.1002/0471142727/homepage/archive.htm#Core | 20:02 |
| kanzure | wtf is a "replacement page"? | 20:02 |
| jk4930 | another topic: lab automation. any opinions there? | 20:02 |
| kanzure | jk4930: what about it? | 20:02 |
| foucist | robots in the lab | 20:03 |
| foucist | doing all your work for you | 20:03 |
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| jk4930 | right | 20:03 |
| kanzure | what about it though? | 20:03 |
| kanzure | my opinion is yes robots are real? | 20:03 |
| jk4930 | how much is it used? | 20:04 |
| kanzure | it's not | 20:04 |
| foucist | kanzure: maybe he's asking for opinions about if lab automation is pathetic and needs serious work | 20:04 |
| yashgaroth | depends on the lab | 20:04 |
| jk4930 | that's what i'm currently researching | 20:04 |
| kanzure | lab robotics is overly priced | 20:04 |
| kanzure | and it's usually proprietary and nutty software | 20:04 |
| yashgaroth | there's nothing below a room-sized Tecan, expect some crappy qiagen benchtop robots | 20:04 |
| kanzure | and most labs don't use it because they have a never-ending-supply of free labor | 20:04 |
| kanzure | "Unit 19.1 Internet Basics for Biologists" | 20:05 |
| kanzure | from april 1998 | 20:05 |
| jk4930 | i'm considering bringing some AI to the lab, maybe later some basic robotics | 20:05 |
| jk4930 | still i have to figure our their needs | 20:05 |
| kanzure | what does "AI" mean | 20:05 |
| yashgaroth | okay | 20:05 |
| jk4930 | artificial intelligence | 20:06 |
| kanzure | now tell me what it actually means | 20:06 |
| jk4930 | what this AI should do? | 20:06 |
| kanzure | why do i put up with this shit you guys give me | 20:06 |
| kanzure | blargh | 20:06 |
| yashgaroth | I don't want a computer deciding how to run a protocol, or rather whoever's in charge of qa/qc doesn't | 20:06 |
| foucist | kanzure: more amphetamines for you! until you get your sense of humor back :P | 20:06 |
| kanzure | jk4930: btw have you seen the tecan perl module/library that jonathan cline wrote? | 20:06 |
| jk4930 | nope | 20:06 |
| kanzure | have you seen the open source liquid handling robot delinquentme built? | 20:07 |
| jk4930 | i guess not. i'm pretty new to this field | 20:07 |
| foucist | kanzure: you mean the shaker? | 20:07 |
| kanzure | no not the shaker | 20:07 |
| kanzure | i haven't seen a shaker yet | 20:07 |
| kanzure | i know jmil built an orbital shaker, but his 3d printer is more interesting to me | 20:07 |
| jk4930 | well, those AI should act as an artificial research assistant (that's the goal, not the start) | 20:08 |
| jk4930 | doing literature research, hypothesis formulation, experiment design and operation, etc. | 20:08 |
| kanzure | okay. | 20:09 |
| jmil | kanzure: our lab protocols are a mess of word files dumped on a server, hopefully :-( | 20:09 |
| kanzure | by hopefully do you mean "yes we have a server with word files" | 20:09 |
| jmil | if we are lucky | 20:09 |
| kanzure | jmil: do you think your lab would use an online protocol thinger to clean that up? | 20:10 |
| brownies | what did delinquentme build? | 20:10 |
| kanzure | and possibly things with voting or rating or quality | 20:10 |
| brownies | i would like to see this | 20:10 |
| kanzure | brownies: https://github.com/delinquentme/lh001 | 20:10 |
| kanzure | brownies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZY5IY5CZ1es | 20:10 |
| jmil | but ideally to keep it DRY you want each step in a protocol to be it's own entry in a task database, and each item used in a protocol to be in its own "items" database, then the protocol is just merging the tasks and items together to allow maximum reuse and dynamism | 20:10 |
| kanzure | jmil: biologists won't ever do that manually dude | 20:10 |
| kanzure | there's no fucking way | 20:10 |
| jmil | kanzure: realistically they wouldn't use it. it has to come down to the user | 20:11 |
| jmil | but if i had my own lab i would regiment it | 20:11 |
| kanzure | hmm | 20:11 |
| jmil | i have the item database already | 20:11 |
| kanzure | are you the only one that uses it? | 20:11 |
| jmil | ya | 20:11 |
| kanzure | or do you force the others to update it :) | 20:11 |
| kanzure | oh :( | 20:11 |
| jmil | i don't have any power yet. just a lowly postdoc | 20:11 |
| jmil | "if i were a professor"… cue the music... | 20:12 |
| kanzure | jmil: what do you think of this sorta site? http://research.abl.es/questions/9/how-do-you-isolate-rna-from-skin/ | 20:12 |
| kanzure | it has little activity but it's like stackoverflow for voting up/down on protocols | 20:12 |
| kanzure | and for q/a style debugging i guess | 20:12 |
| brownies | kanzure: wtf @ that video | 20:13 |
| brownies | kanzure: does it have an ON button? -_- | 20:13 |
| kanzure | brownies: you should ask him | 20:13 |
| kanzure | because i don't know :) | 20:13 |
| brownies | haha | 20:14 |
| brownies | yeah, it would be nice to see it doing something | 20:14 |
| brownies | anything, really. | 20:14 |
| jmil | kanzure: nature protocols does it best. with task steps, wait steps, color coded etc. they are the BEST and cover every possible kind of lab protocol | 20:16 |
| jmil | kanzure: i don't see a protocol on that site | 20:16 |
| brownies | Nature Protocls? | 20:16 |
| kanzure | jmil: meh i don't want to dig; but good point. most of those were questions and not actually procedures. | 20:17 |
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| kanzure | "current protocols in molecular biology" had a 2003 book with 29 chapters that seems fairly comprehensive. | 20:17 |
| kanzure | jmil: have you used springerprotocols or "methods in molecular biology" and if so what do you think about these | 20:18 |
| jmil | methods in molecular bio is amazingness | 20:18 |
| jmil | they detail the science behind each step in the protocol | 20:18 |
| jmil | really stellar. even better than nature protocols. but nature protocols is the most you could hope for coming from people doing the protocols since they are the ones in the trenches, not the world thought leaders like featured in methods in molecular bio | 20:19 |
| kanzure | wait what? so who writes methods in molecular bio? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | i mean surely it has to be people who are practicing those techniques? | 20:20 |
| jmil | i think it's like a paper. written and done by a trainee but overseen directly by a PI | 20:20 |
| jmil | i always saw methods mol bio stuff as kind of a victory lap publication for the PI after they get a big paper and some notoriety. nature protocols is trying to be like that idea | 20:20 |
| kanzure | i think i've seen a few of my friends in nature protocols. usually it's something sorta edgy but still thorough. | 20:21 |
| jmil | a lot of nature protocols are detailing useful protocols developed for landmark papers but not described there in sufficient detail to be reproduced due to lack of space or due to a huge amount of technical info really needed to describe fully | 20:21 |
| jmil | kanzure: ya that model also applies to nature protocols | 20:22 |
| kanzure | jmil: so the problem i'm trying to solve here is that many people coming into diybio need protocols or need to be indoctrinated | 20:23 |
| kanzure | in a lab you have access to those books (if necessary) but most of the time you just get handed some notes from someone else | 20:23 |
| brownies | so why don't they just read the books? o.O | 20:24 |
| kanzure | because they cost like $20,000 a volume? | 20:24 |
| kanzure | this looks pretty nice in terms of coverage: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/book/10.1002/0471142727/toc | 20:25 |
| kanzure | (current protocols in molecular bio) | 20:25 |
| brownies | a book costs $20,000? that ain't right. | 20:25 |
| kanzure | well, no, it's probably like $50-$100 per book in the series | 20:25 |
| kanzure | but methods in molecular bio is 900 books | 20:26 |
| kanzure | oh wait | 20:26 |
| kanzure | http://www.currentprotocols.com/WileyCDA/Section/id-810249.html | 20:26 |
| kanzure | online subscription to current protocols is $400/series | 20:27 |
| brownies | it appears to be 1 book? | 20:27 |
| brownies | oh i see | 20:27 |
| brownies | i didn't know this existed. well, there's your fucking answer. -_- | 20:27 |
| kanzure | what, everyone pays a lot of cash to get these documents? | 20:28 |
| brownies | why would any biologist contribute to some half-baked ghetto recreation of this, when their institution gives them *this* for free? | 20:28 |
| kanzure | not all institutions have this | 20:28 |
| brownies | well, no, the lab owners pay, and that's that. | 20:28 |
| kanzure | and, most of the time, like in jmil's case, it's just some word documents on a shared server | 20:28 |
| kanzure | i mean, the reason you go to these books is because something is broken, not because it's your first stop | 20:29 |
| kanzure | (unless you're doing something esoteric in the first place) | 20:29 |
| brownies | well... i don't know these things. -_- | 20:29 |
| brownies | but what i gather is that plenty of documented protocols exist | 20:30 |
| brownies | and there's unlikely to be much sympathy for a small ragtag poverty-stricken band of garage tinkerers | 20:30 |
| kanzure | the situation still sucks even for people in labs, though | 20:30 |
| kanzure | (my academic access gateways make that site say "you are not subscribed") | 20:33 |
| AdrianG | ok | 20:49 |
| AdrianG | so whats the biggest breakthrough needed to make bio-hackinjg a commodity | 20:49 |
| AdrianG | like pc hacking | 20:49 |
| foucist | what do you mean by commodity | 20:50 |
| kanzure | what? | 20:52 |
| kanzure | you might suffer from over-lateral-thinking syndrome | 20:52 |
| brownies | better verticalize your thinking bro | 20:53 |
| kanzure | *overly | 20:54 |
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| jrayhawk | i guess it's pretty easy to hack epigenetics. quantifiedselfers and other self-improvement nerds do it all the time. | 21:07 |
| yashgaroth | ehhhhhh | 21:09 |
| kanzure | if they can quantify it with gene expression graphing and stuff, sure | 21:10 |
| yashgaroth | still like saying if I binge drink and my liver upregulated alcohol dehydrogenase, I'm "hacking" my genetics | 21:12 |
| jrayhawk | you might want to look up 'hack' on the jargon file | 21:13 |
| yashgaroth | I try not to | 21:14 |
| yashgaroth | also epigenetics implies they're acetylating their own histones and shit | 21:14 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: why | 21:16 |
| ParahSailin_ | this might be a little off topic here, but does anyone know about inverters for solar on a small (home) scale? | 21:16 |
| AdrianG | foucist: commodity as in real cheap | 21:16 |
| AdrianG | like anyone with two brain cells and 2 bucks can do it | 21:16 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: i think you're just being cryptic | 21:16 |
| ParahSailin_ | commercial models too expensive, it seems like it wouldn't cost too much to solder stuff together | 21:16 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: but i would appreciate cheap reagents anyway | 21:17 |
| AdrianG | reagents are relatively cheap | 21:18 |
| AdrianG | its the hardware thats expensive | 21:18 |
| kanzure | hardware is pretty cheap on ebay | 21:18 |
| yashgaroth | yeah no reagents are the expensive part | 21:18 |
| yashgaroth | that's true in all of bio research except, like, computational | 21:19 |
| kanzure | i'm pretty sure some of the thermocycler designs cost less than the $200 reagent mixes | 21:21 |
| yashgaroth | hell the vendors usually just give equipment away so you'll buy their reagents | 21:21 |
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| nmz787 | delinquentme: hey i'm prob gonna drive past greensburg on saturday | 21:35 |
| AdrianG | i thought hardware is expensive | 21:36 |
| AdrianG | like | 21:36 |
| AdrianG | what reagents are we talking | 21:36 |
| kanzure | all of them | 21:36 |
| AdrianG | well | 21:36 |
| AdrianG | purity ? | 21:36 |
| kanzure | completely | 21:36 |
| AdrianG | so then we should concentrate on cheap reagent production. | 21:37 |
| AdrianG | are there any companies thare are trying to do that | 21:37 |
| AdrianG | dramatically to bring down synthesis costs down? | 21:37 |
| kanzure | if you want to do cheap reagent production, go right ahead | 21:38 |
| kanzure | none of us will stop you | 21:38 |
| nmz787 | AdrianG: doesn't cost follow demand? | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | it depends what you're talking about | 21:41 |
| AdrianG | yes and no | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | an antibody could be a reagent in some assay | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | but its pretty different than sugar cane | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | or salt | 21:41 |
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| nmz787 | do we know this guy http://andreasbastian.com/3dp/final_report_v2.pdf | 21:58 |
| kanzure | i don't have any records | 21:59 |
| nmz787 | ice woodpulp composite material tested for strength http://andreasbastian.com/pykrete/pykrete.html | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | hmm, maybe useful at the poles | 22:02 |
| nmz787 | or on some other planet | 22:02 |
| yashgaroth | pykrete is boss | 22:03 |
| nmz787 | know anyone here http://www.upmc-biosecurity.org/website/our_staff/index.html#ExecOfficers | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | ? | 22:05 |
| nmz787 | wait, huh: | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | The Center for Biosecurity of UPMC | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | The Pier IV Building | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | 621 E. Pratt Street, Suite 210 | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | Baltimore, Maryland 21202 | 22:06 |
| nmz787 | University of Pittsburgh Medical Center... in Baltimore??? | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | oh, hmm | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | "Prior to joining UPMC in 2003 as the Center for Biosecurity, the group was founded in 1998 as the first and only academic center focused on biosecurity policy and practice. The Center’s work has helped to identify the character and potential consequences of major biological threats, the policies needed to protect the nation, and the response capacities necessary to diminish the impact of such an event." | 22:08 |
| kanzure | none of the names jump out at me | 22:08 |
| nmz787 | Journal of.... Biosecurity and Bioterrorism: Biodefense Strategy, Practice, and Science http://online.liebertpub.com/loi/bsp/ | 22:10 |
| nmz787 | only $597/year in print | 22:11 |
| kanzure | hah | 22:12 |
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| nmz787 | this looks like a good wiki to scrape | 22:13 |
| nmz787 | http://seqanswers.com/wiki/Software | 22:13 |
| nmz787 | or copy | 22:13 |
| nmz787 | http://seqanswers.com/wiki/Service_Provider | 22:13 |
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| nmz787 | FAQ http://seqanswers.com/wiki/How-to | 22:14 |
| nmz787 | "The ultimate goal is to contain and parse some of the content that is not ideal for forums, particularly the monsterBioinformatics package thread" http://seqanswers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43 | 22:14 |
| nmz787 | "2012 in Bioinformatics: SEQanswers: An open access community for collaboratively decoding genomes" | 22:15 |
| nmz787 | "2011 Nucleic Acids Research: The SEQanswers wiki: a wiki database of tools for high-throughput sequencing analysis" | 22:15 |
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| nmz787 | oO http://seqanswers.com/wiki/SEQanswers | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | oops | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | http://www.good.is/post/a-13-year-old-s-slavery-analogy-raises-some-uncomfortable-truths-in-school/ | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | school is like slavery ? | 22:18 |
| nmz787 | "Instead of truly teaching, most teachers simply "pass out pamphlets and packets" and then expect students to complete them independently, Williams wrote. But this approach fails, she concluded, because "most of my peers cannot read and or comprehend the material that has been provided." " | 22:19 |
| nmz787 | "Given that only 19 percent of School #3's eighth graders were proficient in language arts last year (and just 13 percent in math)—well below the state average of 60 percent—it's clear that the school and its teachers need to change their approach." | 22:20 |
| nmz787 | hah, so the girl wrote a good essay about how the school sucked, and the school (which does seem to suck) kicked her out | 22:21 |
| nmz787 | "Attempting to silence Williams by branding her a troublemaker and driving her off campus isn't the answer. Now she is walking away from this controversy convinced that white teachers don't want to educate black students at all." | 22:21 |
| nmz787 | I don't really think its a race thing though | 22:21 |
| nmz787 | maybe sometimes, I guess I don't know | 22:21 |
| nmz787 | I think school was pretty lame though, with the whole packet thing | 22:21 |
| nmz787 | but honestly, my parents taught me how to read | 22:22 |
| nmz787 | "As the parent of two black boys I know firsthand that white teachers can excel at teaching black children. What set those outstanding teachers apart was their genuine desire to see my boys succeed and hard work to build relationships with them and with our family. What if Williams' English teacher had used her essay to turn a critical eye on her teaching practice and her expectations for black students? What if the school had used it | 22:22 |
| nmz787 | geez, well, good author of this article at least | 22:22 |
| nmz787 | oh wow, linked from that article http://www.good.is/post/teachers-are-awesome-meet-the-99-year-old-educator-still-on-the-job?utm_content=prev-next&utm_medium=post-page-bottom | 22:23 |
| nmz787 | hah, i bet so many old jokes are made of her | 22:23 |
| nmz787 | pretty great to hear an old person still kicking and doing good things | 22:23 |
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| delinquentme | nmz787, you still heere? | 22:38 |
| delinquentme | and you're going to a biosecurity spot in PGH? | 22:38 |
| delinquentme | IM COMING. | 22:38 |
| delinquentme | me bites brownies, | 22:43 |
| * delinquentme chews | 22:43 | |
| brownies | eh | 22:43 |
| brownies | stop that | 22:43 |
| delinquentme | NOM. | 22:43 |
| delinquentme | okay.jpg | 22:43 |
| delinquentme | no im hungry. | 22:44 |
| delinquentme | was delish. | 22:44 |
| delinquentme | should share more often. | 22:44 |
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| nmz787 | delinquentme: yes | 23:12 |
| delinquentme | I'm gonna be in monroeville early this morning | 23:12 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: no not going to anything biosecurity | 23:12 |
| delinquentme | saturday i should be back in GBG | 23:12 |
| nmz787 | ok | 23:12 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, I know the building so we should break in then. | 23:12 |
| delinquentme | theres a security guard and big scanners | 23:12 |
| delinquentme | but Itll be fun | 23:12 |
| nmz787 | we're camping fri night, then hiking somewhere east of gburgh | 23:12 |
| delinquentme | linn run? | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | that site says UPMC biosec is in Baltimore | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | not PGH | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | which is lame | 23:13 |
| delinquentme | Ahh well theres the BST 3 | 23:13 |
| delinquentme | which is le awesome. | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | not sure where we're hiking | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | maybe linn runn/forbes state forest | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | there's that laurel ridge | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | which is pretty cool | 23:13 |
| nmz787 | i also really like ohiopyle area tho | 23:14 |
| nmz787 | but who knows | 23:14 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: Verification RequiredPlease select the image of Albert Einstein below and click the submit button.We regret having to add this extra step for our subscribers, but have found it necessary due to systematic automated downloading of our content (in violation of our Terms and Conditions). | 23:14 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: from these guys http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v108/i25/e253901 | 23:15 |
| delinquentme | super cool | 23:15 |
| delinquentme | umm yeah maybe starbucks on 30? | 23:16 |
| delinquentme | 30 actually runs into all those foothills | 23:16 |
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| delinquentme | oh and nmz787 712-610-8659 | 23:22 |
| nmz787 | yeah, ok, I'll let you know ahead of time when we're passing through | 23:25 |
| delinquentme | awesom | 23:26 |
| nmz787 | maybe i could see you on the way out too, on monday | 23:26 |
| delinquentme | cool i should be around both days +D | 23:26 |
| nmz787 | can i text that #? | 23:28 |
| delinquentme | yeah | 23:30 |
| nmz787 | cool | 23:30 |
| nmz787 | ttyl | 23:30 |
| nmz787 | this is a weird site | 23:30 |
| nmz787 | seems crappy but i wonder if the software is better than gOptical | 23:30 |
| nmz787 | http://www.opticalsoftware.net/ | 23:30 |
| nmz787 | http://twitter.com/lensdesignapps | 23:31 |
| kanzure | why is it 1am? | 23:39 |
| kanzure | who are you people? | 23:39 |
| brownies | deep questions | 23:42 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: what is this site http://www.rtbot.net/Beam_profile | 23:48 |
| nmz787 | i mean, http://www.rtbot.net/ | 23:48 |
| nmz787 | it seems like a strange site to have that big (decent looking) mass of optics data | 23:48 |
| nmz787 | oh, its just ripping wikipedia | 23:50 |
| gnusha | laser_etcher.git: 26fbb59 tons of links, chrome no longer hates me for all the open tabs | 23:54 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: ping | 23:56 |
| kanzure | pong | 23:56 |
| nmz787 | ikiwiki seems to want URLs to be in the [text](URL), or [URL](text) format | 23:57 |
| nmz787 | hrmm | 23:57 |
| kanzure | or <http://...> | 23:57 |
| nmz787 | i /just/ regexed all them | 23:57 |
| nmz787 | to be inside [] | 23:57 |
| kanzure | i think you can also get away with <a href=""></a> | 23:57 |
| kanzure | [text](url) | 23:57 |
| nmz787 | ugh | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | well not tonight | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | for me at least | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | ttyl | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | bed | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | finally | 23:58 |
| nmz787 | :P | 23:58 |
| kanzure | good night | 23:58 |
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| --- Log closed Fri Aug 31 00:00:12 2012 | ||
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