| --- Log opened Wed Sep 26 00:00:37 2012 | ||
| @brownies | kanzure: you catch this? http://www.nature.com/news/open-access-deal-for-particle-physics-1.11468 | 00:16 |
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| -!- Topic for ##hplusroadmap: biohacking, nootropics, transhumanism, open hardware | sponsored by george church and the NRA | http://gnusha.org/logs http://diyhpl.us/wiki http://groups.google.com/group/diybio | friends don't let friends do super college | 04:16 | |
| -!- Topic set by kanzure [~kanzure@131.252.130.248] [Fri Aug 10 08:01:18 2012] | 04:16 | |
| [Users ##hplusroadmap] | 04:16 | |
| [@brownies] [ chris_99 ] [ gedankenstuecke] [ Mariu ] [ Sanqui ] [ Thorbinator] | 04:16 | |
| [@kanzure ] [ Coornail_ ] [ gnusha ] [ Mokbortolan_1] [ SDr ] [ upgrayeddd ] | 04:16 | |
| [ AdrienG ] [ cpopell ] [ Guest76887 ] [ nathaniel ] [ sivoais ] [ Urchin ] | 04:16 | |
| [ AlonzoTG] [ cpopell_ ] [ Helleshin ] [ nuba ] [ skorket ] [ Vicarious ] | 04:16 | |
| [ alusion ] [ devrandom ] [ HEx1 ] [ obscurit1 ] [ smeaaagle ] [ wizzorb ] | 04:16 | |
| [ archels ] [ docl ] [ ivan` ] [ OldCoder ] [ SolG ] [ ybit ] | 04:16 | |
| [ audy ] [ drazak_ ] [ Jaakko96 ] [ OldCoder_ ] [ strages_1ome] [ yorick ] | 04:16 | |
| [ augur ] [ ElixirVitae] [ jrayhawk ] [ ParahSailin_ ] [ strangewarp ] | 04:16 | |
| [ bkero ] [ epitron ] [ Lemminkainen_ ] [ pasky ] [ streety ] | 04:16 | |
| [ chido ] [ foucist_ ] [ lichen ] [ phryk ] [ superkuh ] | 04:16 | |
| -!- Irssi: ##hplusroadmap: Total of 57 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 55 normal] | 04:16 | |
| !hubbard.freenode.net [freenode-info] channel flooding and no channel staff around to help? Please check with freenode support: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp | 04:16 | |
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| -!- Channel ##hplusroadmap created Thu Feb 25 23:40:30 2010 | 04:16 | |
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| @kanzure | brownies: yes i saw that | 07:26 |
| @kanzure | brownies: although it's not super surprising, particle physics has always been like this | 07:27 |
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| alusion | good morning | 08:51 |
| @kanzure | oh not this guy again | 08:52 |
| alusion | http://www.roadtovr.com/2012/09/26/augmented-reality-welding-mask-1344 interesting article | 08:53 |
| alusion | Sup cancer | 08:53 |
| alusion | do you even lift bro? | 08:54 |
| alusion | Anyhow, apply that welding mask idea | 08:54 |
| alusion | to the Oculus rift [which went live for pre-order today] | 08:54 |
| alusion | so apparently... transparent Aluminum has been commercialized | 08:58 |
| alusion | >_> | 08:59 |
| jrayhawk | uh... really | 09:01 |
| jrayhawk | where would this be | 09:01 |
| alusion | http://lmgtfy.com/?q=transparent+aluminum | 09:03 |
| jrayhawk | that's not an answer | 09:03 |
| jrayhawk | where is it being commercialized | 09:03 |
| alusion | Oh one moment. | 09:04 |
| alusion | depends how you want it? | 09:04 |
| alusion | Sheets ? foil? Brick? | 09:04 |
| jrayhawk | i am not picky | 09:04 |
| Mariu | =] | 09:05 |
| @kanzure | scienceexchange.com is now offering 'animal husbandry' services. | 09:05 |
| alusion | alibaba has tons of different kinds. I am wondering if graphene has made any breakthroughs in its manufacturing process? | 09:08 |
| jrayhawk | link me to one | 09:08 |
| alusion | Also I was I had heard from a while ago that light microscopes had the ability to see to nano for around $500, wondering if ya'll had anything on that? | 09:09 |
| alusion | jeez you want everything handed to you? | 09:09 |
| alusion | I'm going to get some breakfast instead. | 09:10 |
| jrayhawk | a "transparent aluminum door" is not made of transparent aluminum. a "transparent aluminum foil" is not made of transparent aluminum. | 09:11 |
| jrayhawk | transparent aluminum is made in laboratories with an ion cannon at uncommercializable cost. | 09:11 |
| jrayhawk | oh, no, x-ray lasers, excuse me | 09:18 |
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| jrayhawk | i guess, more specifically, "'a transparent medium that happens to contain aluminum' is a rather substantially larger superset of 'transparent aluminum'" | 09:26 |
| chris_99 | ooh hadn't heard of x-ray lasers | 09:27 |
| @kanzure | so what's going on here | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | https://lh4.ggpht.com/-Lymw9XVvZ_yKoYTLKt2P-zBBsDK35tXEopVX0rL89r8daWwQZDZjrvSggLOXzDyqPQ=w1000 | 09:28 |
| @kanzure | https://lh4.ggpht.com/-Lymw9XVvZ_yKoYTLKt2P-zBBsDK35tXEopVX0rL89r8daWwQZDZjrvSggLOXzDyqPQ=w1000000 | 09:28 |
| jrayhawk | it appears to be limited to 2560, the upper practical resolution of most video setups | 09:30 |
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| @kanzure | they seem to be the same image | 09:30 |
| jrayhawk | rather confusingly, it's scaling in my browser which doesn't do automatic scaling | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | okay then | 09:34 |
| jrayhawk | oh i see, i am just dumb, nevermind | 09:35 |
| jrayhawk | have you played much with imagemagick or gd | 09:36 |
| @kanzure | sure | 09:36 |
| jrayhawk | oh good. some people have a lot of problems conceptualizing this sort of automated graphics logic. | 09:36 |
| jrayhawk | i guess GIMP is also a pretty good graphics library | 09:37 |
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| @kanzure | jrayhawk: imagemagick and gd are my go-to solutions for image manipulation stuff. no worries. | 09:59 |
| @kanzure | i just want their largest image instead of their scaled-down junk | 09:59 |
| @kanzure | https://lh5.ggpht.com/lOF7tULhe9XhYu76ODh5owjFStMyuGkxT1-eqq-Trm0A0cac93IuNFUN3cEnsXcnSw=w1000 | 10:08 |
| @kanzure | so, that doesn't work because your palm is over the button. | 10:08 |
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| jrayhawk | i am guessing that image isn't natively rasterized, so you're probably screwed in terms of perfection, but 512x512 seems good enough for most purposes | 10:59 |
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| eudoxia | christ the dresden codak guy just never updates his comic | 11:30 |
| archels | hahaha I hear ya | 11:32 |
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| @brownies | kanzure: eh? what are you doing with Square? | 12:08 |
| @kanzure | brownies: it was the only example someone could give me of a page with a video | 12:26 |
| nmz787 | anyone in here unemployed and in NYC, I would be interested in paying someone to record a free lecture series this week | 12:28 |
| @brownies | ahh | 12:31 |
| @brownies | what's the lecture series nmz787 ? | 12:31 |
| nmz787 | http://saturn.med.nyu.edu/research/symposium/2012 | 12:32 |
| nmz787 | http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-09/miot-omb092512.php | 12:40 |
| nmz787 | Oscillating microscopic beads could be key to biolab on a chipMIT team finds way to manipulate and measure magnetic particles without contact, potentially enabling multiple medical tests on a tiny device | 12:40 |
| nmz787 | "The balls used here are microscopic magnetic beads that can be "decorated" with biomolecules such as antibodies that cause them to bind to specific proteins or cells; such beads are widely used in biomedical research. The key to this new work was finding a way to capture individual beads and set them oscillating by applying a variable magnetic field. The rate of their oscillation can then be measured to assess the size of | 12:41 |
| nmz787 | " | 12:41 |
| nmz787 | "Rather than pumping the fluid and the particles through channels, as in today's microfluidic devices, the particles would be controlled entirely through changes in applied magnetic fields. By controlling the directions of magnetic fields in closely spaced adjacent regions, the researchers create tiny areas with extremely strong magnetic fields, called magnetic domain walls, whose position can be shifted along the track. "W | 12:41 |
| nmz787 | that's about all that's interesting in that article | 12:42 |
| archels | So they have a grid of coils to generate the magnetic field? | 12:43 |
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| @kanzure | hilarious | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | so now someone has changed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biohacking | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | to flip the "popular" meaning -_- | 12:52 |
| @brownies | intriguing | 12:52 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o brownies] by kanzure | 12:52 | |
| @kanzure | catastrophe averted, good job guys. | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | oh it was yashgaroth, i'm sort of disappointed in him | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | it's a hilarious change but uh. not substantial. | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | he didn't even add a reference | 12:53 |
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| @kanzure | so i know zotero can take a url and generate a wikipedia-formatted citation, but is there anything else? | 12:57 |
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| archels | "Undid revision by Brianhkerr - please don't use wikipedia to pimp your shitty blog, thanks" | 13:03 |
| archels | haha | 13:03 |
| archels | kanzure: As far as I can see, this is the only thing Yashgaroth did--or rather, undid. | 13:04 |
| @kanzure | oh i see | 13:04 |
| @kanzure | i didn't read the comment. | 13:04 |
| archels | meh, nmz787 left | 13:06 |
| archels | The chipMIT thing uses only a four-pole magnet that is enormously bigger than the chip itself. | 13:06 |
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| archels | ah but then they have electrodes lithographed onto the chip in various configurations. Nifty. | 13:09 |
| archels | Those appaear to be used only for sensing right now, not for gating particles. | 13:11 |
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| nmz787 | "He claims to have shaved 20 years off his biochemistry" | 14:17 |
| nmz787 | sounds like he's dying 20 years earlier | 14:17 |
| @kanzure | nah, see, he had these parasites called Y. Earialis attached to his "biochemistries" | 14:18 |
| @kanzure | and it just got misinterpreted as years | 14:18 |
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| nmz787 | huh? | 14:20 |
| @kanzure | i dunno. sometimes i try to come up with plausible explanations for obviously wrong statements. | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | ok | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | y. Earialis didnt google | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | i was trying to make "years" sound like a bacteria name | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | the examples section on DIYBio wiki sucks | 14:21 |
| nmz787 | "included in the program of the Open Science Summit[12] at University of California, Berkeley." | 14:22 |
| nmz787 | i didn't know OSS had any connection to UCB | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | science house is at berkeley | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | and the summit rented the room | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | oops i mean, practically speaking, jojack rented the room | 14:22 |
| @kanzure | check the talk page.. i have a huge list of citations | 14:23 |
| @kanzure | which could be used to write a better article (they are already in wikipedia's format) | 14:23 |
| @kanzure | i'm actually updating that list at the moment.. slowly. it takes a while to convert diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq/news into that format because no tool seems to be able to extract "author name" from arbitrary blogs. | 14:24 |
| nmz787 | also it seems biopunk vs diybio is more of blind experimentation vs doing legit literature research before beginning experiments | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | there is no biopunk/diybio distinction | 14:24 |
| @kanzure | splicer made it up | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | and he originally edited the wikipedia articles years ago to get his site (biopunk.org) more prominence | 14:25 |
| nmz787 | well i would say all the magnet people are punks | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | a professor would eagerly label you a punk | 14:25 |
| @kanzure | arrrgh that bastard deleted http://marcuswohlsen.com/2010/12/02/biopunk-diy-scientists-hack-the-software-of-life-coming-spring-2011/ | 14:31 |
| @kanzure | i think my diybio news list has outlived some of its articles | 14:32 |
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| nmz787 | google cache? | 14:39 |
| nmz787 | or archive.org? | 14:39 |
| nmz787 | you could mirror the articles??? | 14:39 |
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| Mokbortolan_1 | what was it? | 14:44 |
| nmz787 | the DIYbio news articles, some are disappearing from their original servers | 14:46 |
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| @kanzure | there are a ridiculous number of included javascript things on this :/ | 14:52 |
| @kanzure | http://www.science20.com/marcus_wohlsen/doityourself_biology_and_history_risk_science-78578 | 14:52 |
| strangewarp | Today I saw someone bring up the idea that maybe half the low-skill workforce would be replaced by robots in 50 to 100 years, and another person called it an unreasonable science-fictional opinion that would never happen. | 15:02 |
| strangewarp | And it made my mind grind to a halt, because.. really? Is this /still/ how regular people think about the future? | 15:03 |
| @kanzure | also http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204124204577150801888929704.html | 15:03 |
| @kanzure | strangewarp: yes it's unreasonable. i think it's safe to say that the low-skill workforce people will still exist in 50 years. unless you're saying they would be murdered? | 15:04 |
| @kanzure | i mean, in 100 years, sure, most of them wont live that long | 15:04 |
| strangewarp | In context, the discussion was that they would not have any jobs, and would need basic income. And it struck me as ludicrous that people were calling some extremely conservative, braindead futurism "too science-fictional to happen". | 15:07 |
| @kanzure | i think you should look at it this way: the other person was arguing for extreme longevity or something | 15:09 |
| @kanzure | s/extreme/increased | 15:09 |
| strangewarp | From my knowledge of the other person's history, I can assure you that they think of extreme longevity as even more science-fictional. | 15:10 |
| strangewarp | But whatever. | 15:10 |
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| Mariu | :p | 15:12 |
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| eudoxia | I don't think there's that much of a dichotomy between being a transhumanist and a peak oilist | 15:13 |
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| @kanzure | "We believe it's possible that there is Peak Oil, but we don't believe he is our god" | 15:15 |
| @kanzure | .. or some other religious mumbojumbo | 15:15 |
| eudoxia | or generally unoptimistic about the future | 15:15 |
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| strangewarp | I do think we're in a peculiar era where it's possible for a reasonable person to be a transhumanist and think the world is doomed, simultaneously, in some sense or another anyway | 15:19 |
| @kanzure | ok here we go | 15:23 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/citations.txt | 15:23 |
| Mariu | cool, fighting aging | 15:28 |
| Mariu | :p | 15:28 |
| @kanzure | he should use his real name. | 15:30 |
| -!- Juul is now known as \Bob\ | 15:39 | |
| -!- \Bob\ is now known as Juul | 15:40 | |
| jrayhawk | there is no bob, only juul | 15:43 |
| Juul | praise "Bob" | 15:44 |
| @kanzure | i am really bad at writing wikipedia articles | 15:45 |
| @kanzure | basically i have 186 citations. now what. | 15:46 |
| skorket | evening all | 15:46 |
| Juul | it's better than 186 [[citation needed]] | 15:46 |
| jrayhawk | Since XUL, like MXML, uses XML to define an interface rather than a document, its developers adopted the slogan: "There is no data, there is only XUL". Hence the XML namespace URI at the beginning of every XUL document: http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | "This usually involves the manipulation of DNA, proteins, or other small molecules." | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | well now i have to cite this statement | 15:47 |
| jrayhawk | is "usually" a weasel word | 15:48 |
| Juul | you don't have to cite things if no-one will question them | 15:48 |
| @kanzure | and, then i have to come up with some bullshit ref for "also, biohacking tends to refer to non-institutional science, but it's certainly possible to hack shit together in a lab" | 15:48 |
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| Juul | kanzure, there must be an article about "garage biology" somewhere you can ref for that | 15:49 |
| Juul | jrayhawk, not usually | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | Juul: there's 186 of them. http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/citations.txt | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | i just got done converting it into wikipedia's format | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | but, it's not a useful statement anyway. "hacks" can be made wherever. | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | and it doesn't give insight into the whole non-institutional bent of these articles | 15:50 |
| Juul | great, now you just need a 186-sided die | 15:50 |
| Juul | sure | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | and then it becomes a semantic definition bullshit fest. i don't want that. | 15:51 |
| Juul | can't you just say the first part: "it tends to refer to non-institutional science" | 15:52 |
| Juul | and leave it at that | 15:52 |
| Juul | also, in unrelated news, did you guys see the hubble extreme deep field? | 15:53 |
| Juul | they went and improved on my all time favorite astronomy photo | 15:53 |
| Juul | well part of it anyway | 15:53 |
| @kanzure | no i haven't seen that photo yet | 15:54 |
| Juul | http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/hubble/science/xdf.html | 15:55 |
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| Juul | deep space: now with more galaxies | 15:55 |
| ThomasEgi | finally, i was already afraid we'd run out of galaxies one day. | 16:01 |
| Mariu | lol | 16:02 |
| @kanzure | meh http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Biohacking&oldid=514720128 | 16:02 |
| @kanzure | i'm bored. two sentences should be enough right? | 16:02 |
| Juul | kanzure, the part where you say "the first" and "the second" has no lead-in | 16:03 |
| Juul | otherwise I like it | 16:03 |
| @kanzure | um | 16:03 |
| @kanzure | i didn't write that bullshit | 16:03 |
| @kanzure | that was whoever edited it last | 16:03 |
| Juul | oh ok | 16:04 |
| @kanzure | that's why those "first" and "second" things make no sense | 16:04 |
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| @kanzure | Juul: lemme know if you get that artifactory source code drop | 16:26 |
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| Juul | kanzure, i will | 16:27 |
| Juul | i'm building something similar, with couch, for bio-parts-sharing | 16:27 |
| Juul | and security has been a bit... tricky | 16:27 |
| Juul | i'll probably be using a combination of replication filters and update-validations that use HMACs | 16:27 |
| @kanzure | new plan: let's rewrite ezproxy in node.js and then install a backdoor. they pay for ezproxy, right? so something open source can probably replace them. (i only say node.js because otherwise i'd be bored) | 16:28 |
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| Juul | kanzure, :) | 16:28 |
| @kanzure | HMACs sound good to me | 16:28 |
| @kanzure | did you see maradydd's sql injection parser grammar detector thingy? | 16:28 |
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| Juul | kanzure, no? | 16:28 |
| @kanzure | me either. wikipedia claims it's a thing that exists. | 16:28 |
| @kanzure | in practice i haven't seen anyone do that (parsing sql queries to determine if injection is occurring or not) | 16:29 |
| @kanzure | it seemed to be something like "only allow these certain types of expressions, anything else is probably an attack" | 16:29 |
| Juul | oh, well that seems like something that's not too hard to do | 16:29 |
| Juul | you could even make it slightly intelligent | 16:29 |
| Juul | so it notices anything out of the ordinary | 16:30 |
| Juul | without needing more calibration than "we changed something, so expect changes for the next 5 minutes" | 16:30 |
| @kanzure | yeah. | 16:30 |
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| Juul | i thought i lost my visa earlier today, but then it was magically and unpextectedly renewed | 16:31 |
| Juul | unexpectedly | 16:31 |
| Juul | weird to be in that much limbo | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | hey so that ieee password leak the other day | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | was done by some guy in copenhagen | 16:32 |
| Juul | oooh | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | can you get one of your guys to go steal his laptop/hard drive? | 16:32 |
| @kanzure | i really really reeeallly want those passwords | 16:32 |
| Mariu | =] | 16:32 |
| Juul | I'll make some inquiries | 16:33 |
| @kanzure | thanks | 16:33 |
| Juul | it's not like there are that many people doing this kind of stuff in copenhagen | 16:35 |
| @kanzure | http://ieeelog.com/ his name is on the site | 16:36 |
| @kanzure | http://ieeelog.com/ieee-confirmation/ | 16:36 |
| Juul | ah ok | 16:37 |
| @kanzure | "Radu Dragusin" | 16:37 |
| Mariu | :o | 16:38 |
| Mariu | that sounds romanian | 16:38 |
| @kanzure | it is. | 16:39 |
| Juul | it is unlikely that he is not a friend of a friend | 16:41 |
| Juul | CS at University of Copenhagen is a small group already, and he was a TA | 16:42 |
| Juul | there we go | 16:44 |
| Juul | he's invited to the same birthday party as me on the 19th of October | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | fantastic | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | good work, team | 16:44 |
| Juul | hm, i won't be able to go to Copenhagen then, but I'll reach out to him | 16:44 |
| Juul | don't you think those passwords will all have been revoked by now? | 16:47 |
| jrayhawk | Probably, but they're still interesting statistically | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | people don't change their passwords on all of their sites | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | this only means ieee passwords are changed | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | and besides, they might just login and change it back to the original one | 16:47 |
| @kanzure | further.. this is only a sample of logins/passwords that happened during the past few months | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | i posit that only idiots who don't understand cookies would be re-logging-in in that timespan | 16:48 |
| Juul | haha http://www.oaklandlibrary.org/online-resources | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | so they are likely even more likely to not change their passwords everywhere | 16:48 |
| @kanzure | oh nice http://www.oaklandlibrary.org/online-resources/articles-and-databases | 16:49 |
| @kanzure | Warning: Table './autojvnj_oplweb/sessions' is marked as crashed and should be repaired query: UPDATE sessions SET uid = 0, cache = 0, hostname = '66.68.190.37', session = '', timestamp = 1348703397 WHERE sid = 'fa409fb0489085a1434bcc9b0b83d954' in /usr/www/users/autojvnj/includes/database.mysqli.inc on line 134 | 16:50 |
| @kanzure | there's probably a vulnerability here with their session id (sid) sql stuff. i bet it's by cookie and not encoded. | 16:51 |
| Juul | yeah | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | yep my cookie is "Cookie:SESSb0ed4294577fc5e92ed7c1f7a9d9b2d9=fa409fb0489085a1434bcc9b0b83d954" | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | fa409 looks the same to me | 16:51 |
| @kanzure | damn. no. | 16:54 |
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| @kanzure | so my mom calls me and says, "hey, so, is this possible on my website? i don't want to call my web guy, so i thought i'd call you to ask if it was possible" | 17:51 |
| @kanzure | .. so in what possible world is it okay to bug me but not your person? basically this means i will probably have to fix all their crap anyway. | 17:51 |
| ParahSailin_ | i find after breaking things enough for nonpaying "customers" they stop asking | 17:52 |
| @kanzure | maybe i should just replace her site with dicks | 17:52 |
| @kanzure | "sorry mom, you were hacked" | 17:53 |
| brownies | oh my god. stop everything. | 18:17 |
| brownies | http://gawker.com/5839142/scientists-produce-glow+in+the+dark-cats | 18:17 |
| brownies | hey, what happened to my sweet hat! | 18:17 |
| @kanzure | :\ | 18:18 |
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| Mariu | lol | 18:34 |
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| @kanzure | "professional work of many DIYbio enthusiasts, has led to a unique subculture among this community, with some members referring to themselves as biopunks" | 18:50 |
| @kanzure | what a load of crap. who writes this stuff? | 18:50 |
| @kanzure | "unique subculture".. subcultures all the way down. | 18:50 |
| @kanzure | that was from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIYbio | 18:51 |
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| AdrienG | stupid cunts thats who writes that. | 19:43 |
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| @kanzure | could facebook conceivably host virtual servers for every one of their users? | 20:02 |
| @kanzure | it seems that they offer at least a large amount of photo storage for each user, and they don't expect everyone to use all of it | 20:03 |
| @kanzure | but 900M virtual servers: would that be doable? | 20:03 |
| @kanzure | > And now I'm trying to interpret your interpretation. May I suggest | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | > that the discussion move to where such discussions are supposed to | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | > happen, which is the Wikipedia talk page for the article(s)? | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:DIYbio | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | > | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | > That way, I (and Kanzure, who is pitching in too) can more easily | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | so this guy is talking with me and is telling me about this "Kanzure" fellow | 20:23 |
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| @kanzure | nmz787: check the last bit of the log.. http://gnusha.org/logs/2012-09-26.log | 20:26 |
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| nmz787 | OMG glo cats | 20:28 |
| AdrienG | kanzure: do you have access to sci journals | 20:29 |
| @kanzure | AdrienG: yes. | 20:29 |
| AdrienG | kanzure: how. | 20:29 |
| @kanzure | mad skills? | 20:30 |
| nmz787 | ezproxy | 20:35 |
| AdrienG | share your skilz | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | AdrienG: ^ | 20:35 |
| nmz787 | my ezproxy too | 20:35 |
| AdrienG | pl0x giev | 20:35 |
| @kanzure | just ask for what you want. | 20:39 |
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| @kanzure | wtf now this guy is claiming i'm a wikipedia newbie. all of my edits have been fully referenced and properly formatted. | 20:46 |
| @kanzure | how is it that wikipedia contributions deteriorate so rapidly? in 2006 when i first started poking around with wikipedia edits, it would take at least a week. | 20:46 |
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| nmz787 | where does he say that? | 20:48 |
| @kanzure | in a private email he just sent | 20:49 |
| @kanzure | all of his emails are to me-only, but i reply publicly because the whole point was to talk about the articles on the mailing list | 20:49 |
| @kanzure | (so i quote his text that he sent me) | 20:49 |
| nmz787 | whoa, he deleted examples though | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | i thought the dremelFuge was perfect there, and openPCR and the pearl gel boxes maybe | 20:51 |
| nmz787 | there was that bioweathermapping project a while ago, but AFAIK it went nowhere | 20:51 |
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| @kanzure | yeah that was jason bobe's thing | 20:55 |
| nmz787 | I guess finger magnets deserve a spot | 20:56 |
| nmz787 | do they? | 20:56 |
| @kanzure | also apparently their used to be a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopunk_movement page, but now it redirects to [[biopunk]] | 20:58 |
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| nmz787 | spikerbox too | 21:00 |
| @kanzure | well, they prefer things that can be cited | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | so pick things from the news | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | here is a giant list of pre-formatted citations | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/citations.txt | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | do <ref name="thing-goes-here">{{Cite ... </ref> to cite it in text | 21:01 |
| @kanzure | or <ref name="thing-goes-here" /> to reference an already-existing citation on the page without increasing its numbering | 21:02 |
| nmz787 | == Examples == | 21:06 |
| nmz787 | To date most completed projects have focused on lowering the cost of laboratory equipment associated with biotechnology. This is due to the field leveraging a wide range of technologies, many of them commoditizing only recently. | 21:06 |
| nmz787 | I don't like the last part of the last sentence | 21:06 |
| @kanzure | yeah it's silly | 21:06 |
| @kanzure | pick out one of the articles about openpcr, otyp's shit, the spectrometer projects got some news love, or the spikerbox stuff, etc. | 21:07 |
| nmz787 | i'm not sure how to eloquently say shit is just now starting to get DIY level understanding and coverage, and cheap enough | 21:07 |
| @kanzure | then don't say it | 21:07 |
| @kanzure | just talk about the projects and cite with refs | 21:07 |
| nmz787 | cathals site is down! | 21:08 |
| @kanzure | yeah i noticed that too :( | 21:08 |
| @kanzure | but, he wouldn't be a good source to cite for dremelfuge anyway (biased source) | 21:08 |
| nmz787 | well it /does/ exist, so do you really need to cite news? | 21:10 |
| @kanzure | welcome to wikipedia editing | 21:11 |
| nmz787 | i bet fastcompany still didnt add my comment | 21:12 |
| nmz787 | how bout this http://make-digital.com/make/vol31?pg=79#pg79 | 21:12 |
| @kanzure | sure | 21:13 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/citations.txt | 21:13 |
| nmz787 | oh there's already this http://diybio.org/2010/03/21/906/ | 21:13 |
| nmz787 | the comments here are lively http://www.wired.com/reviews/2011/12/reviews_pcr/ | 21:22 |
| nmz787 | Abraham Ben JudeaCollapseCan anybody see the amateur biologist, trying to mix this virus with that other one from that other species? | 21:24 |
| nmz787 | We have now a real danger from the tool shed biologist. | 21:24 |
| @kanzure | i think people misunderstand that to do molecular biology work you sort of need to be skilled anyway | 21:24 |
| @kanzure | but, a newbie certainly isn't going to be able to make a virus just because he bought a thermocycler | 21:25 |
| nmz787 | :P | 21:25 |
| nmz787 | sous vide DNA | 21:26 |
| nmz787 | ali baba doesn't have a sort by price huh? | 21:32 |
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| nmz787 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIYbio#Examples | 21:39 |
| nmz787 | how's that look | 21:39 |
| @kanzure | you should say its name (dremelfuge) | 21:40 |
| @kanzure | "openPCR" should be "OpenPCR" | 21:40 |
| nmz787 | ok | 21:40 |
| @kanzure | "micro centrifuge" should probably be "microcentrifuge" ? | 21:40 |
| nmz787 | nah | 21:40 |
| nmz787 | really the capital O? | 21:41 |
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| @kanzure | yeah it's always with a capital o | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | ok | 21:41 |
| @kanzure | and it's never "Open PCR" | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | openSpectrometer doesn't have a capital O | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | :P | 21:41 |
| @kanzure | that's because you're a bad person | 21:41 |
| nmz787 | when did the FBI collab start? | 21:41 |
| @kanzure | 2009 or earlier | 21:41 |
| AdrienG | can we maybe setup a bot | 21:42 |
| nmz787 | 2008, 9, or 10? | 21:42 |
| AdrienG | that would download full articlez? | 21:42 |
| nmz787 | i mean the first meeting | 21:42 |
| AdrienG | from journals :D | 21:42 |
| @kanzure | AdrienG: paperbot is still in the garage.. but yes that its purpose | 21:42 |
| AdrienG | :< | 21:42 |
| @kanzure | *that's its | 21:42 |
| @kanzure | AdrienG: just tell me what you need | 21:42 |
| nmz787 | AdrienG: do you have any paper access? | 21:42 |
| AdrienG | kanzure: too many things. | 21:42 |
| AdrienG | nmz787: nope | 21:42 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: there was possibly a meeting before the 2011 one that i wasn't invited to | 21:42 |
| @kanzure | but they had me for 2011 and 2012 | 21:43 |
| @kanzure | agents were showing up to meetings in 2009 for sure | 21:43 |
| @kanzure | i met edward you 2010-03-01 | 21:44 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: when was the fbi person showing up to the seattle meetings? | 21:45 |
| yashgaroth | right after I left, so...summer 2010? | 21:45 |
| yashgaroth | that was you | 21:45 |
| yashgaroth | er, agent you | 21:45 |
| @kanzure | wtf who reverted my edits to DIYbio | 21:45 |
| @kanzure | god damn it | 21:45 |
| @kanzure | "DIYbio is open-source, meaning designs and projects are not patented" | 21:45 |
| @kanzure | my edit was to fix that sentence | 21:46 |
| @kanzure | it's incomprehensible | 21:46 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: dude it was you | 21:46 |
| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DIYbio&diff=514756124&oldid=514738767 | 21:46 |
| yashgaroth | hmm wait no, spring 2010* | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | huh? | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | i just clicked edit | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | and added back the examples | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | i though | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | t | 21:46 |
| @kanzure | look at the changes on that link | 21:46 |
| nmz787 | FBI says 2009 http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/fbi-diybio-2012/intro.txt | 21:47 |
| @kanzure | i would suggest undoing your change, and just copying the section you want | 21:47 |
| @kanzure | s/undoing/reverting | 21:47 |
| @kanzure | wikipedia is not git. it's terrible in comparison. | 21:47 |
| nmz787 | ahh | 21:47 |
| nmz787 | can you do it? | 21:47 |
| @kanzure | sigh | 21:47 |
| nmz787 | and just copy the block i added | 21:47 |
| nmz787 | the current version | 21:48 |
| nmz787 | of the examples* | 21:48 |
| yashgaroth | oh and sorry about not modifying the biohacking wiki more, since it definitely needs a better sentence than "people create synthetic biology using DIYbio / mixing and matching genes and characteristics from different species" | 21:49 |
| @kanzure | ok done. | 21:49 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth: that's the most awful sentence i've ever seen on wikipedia. and i've read a lot of wikipedia. :( | 21:49 |
| yashgaroth | well I should've used an ellipsis rather than the /, but the article still looks like it was written by some jagoff | 21:50 |
| yashgaroth | I just wanted to be snide to that kerr fucker before going to bed | 21:50 |
| @kanzure | so i think the consensus is that the 'biopunk' article has some useful content, and so does 'diybio', but the biopunk/biohacking distinction is worthless | 21:51 |
| @kanzure | and the biopunk article looks like it was originally there for the science fiction content | 21:51 |
| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Biopunk#Is_the_movement_related_to_the_genre.3F | 21:52 |
| nmz787 | how's this | 21:55 |
| nmz787 | == Outreach == | 21:55 |
| nmz787 | Beginning in 2009 the FBI engaged active members of the DIYbio Google Groups mailing list much like they engage scientific boards at universities and businesses. The dialogue focused on safety issues and aimed to instill a sense of self-policing in the ad-hoc online community. Because DIYbio and biohacking takes place on an international level, the FBI is limited in its ability to monitor and investigate all activity. | 21:55 |
| @kanzure | sure why not | 21:55 |
| nmz787 | should I cite... your transcripts? | 21:56 |
| nmz787 | or this http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbioethics.gov%2Fcms%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FFBI-Perspective-Addressing-Synthetic-Biology-and-Biosecurity.ppt&ei=iNljUNOwIoq-0QGu24DwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGx5_CMEgqOcHIDMQjdn2PxkMxpdw&sig2=BVlhRzd-yE_Gk2-HCdIHQw | 21:56 |
| @kanzure | the 2011 file is a joke - but it's all i have | 21:57 |
| @kanzure | there was some news articles that mentioned it | 21:57 |
| nmz787 | (sorry if I click the link it just downloads the file, so I cant copy the URL) | 21:57 |
| @kanzure | the 2012 transcripts are probably citable | 21:57 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: curl -A "blah" -I "http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbioethics.gov%2Fcms%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2FFBI-Perspective-Addressing-Synthetic-Biology-and-Biosecurity.ppt&ei=iNljUNOwIoq-0QGu24DwBQ&usg=AFQjCNGx5_CMEgqOcHIDMQjdn2PxkMxpdw&sig2=BVlhRzd-yE_Gk2-HCdIHQw" | 21:57 |
| nmz787 | "Building Bridges Around Building Genomes” | 21:57 |
| @kanzure | how about this one | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | http://burnafterreading.nationaljournal.com/2010/05/citizen-scientists-attract-fbi.php | 21:58 |
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| @kanzure | it's in my citations.txt file | 21:58 |
| klafka | hey kanzure | 21:58 |
| klafka | oy | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | so you can just copy that with <ref>the thing in citations.txt that references burnafterreading</ref> in the wikitext | 21:58 |
| @kanzure | klafka: hello | 21:58 |
| klafka | also internet not fucked | 21:59 |
| nmz787 | genspace did some outreach in central park i think | 22:00 |
| nmz787 | doing demos for kids | 22:00 |
| nmz787 | or maybe that was makerfaire | 22:00 |
| @kanzure | diybio-nyc prior to genspace was doing lots of dna extraction parades | 22:01 |
| @kanzure | then genspace started doing those | 22:01 |
| @kanzure | meanwhile, madlab diybio uk was doing tons of public exhibits or something. i don't care. | 22:01 |
| nmz787 | ok i didnt mess up your stuff again did I? | 22:04 |
| nmz787 | ok i dont think so | 22:04 |
| nmz787 | kanzure: how do i find what this references? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nmz787#Scientific_humor | 22:05 |
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| yashgaroth | I'm guessing "What's a pirate's favorite amino acid? -- Arrrrr-ginine!" | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | hmmm. you would have to look for edits that you made around that timeframe. | 22:07 |
| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Nmz787 | 22:07 |
| nmz787 | " (Scientific jokes encourage learning, please comment in the talk page if you disagree. Is the 50 or so bytes needed too many??? I think we need more arginine jokes!)" | 22:08 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: your {{cite}} thing has to be in <ref></ref> in wikitext format. i've made the edit for you: | 22:09 |
| @kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIYbio#Outreach | 22:09 |
| @kanzure | see diff: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=DIYbio&diff=514758691&oldid=514758346 | 22:09 |
| nmz787 | "What's a pirate's favorite equation for calculating chemical rates? -- The Arrrrr-henius equation! " | 22:09 |
| nmz787 | ahh, i copied directly from citations.txt like you said :/ | 22:10 |
| @kanzure | i also said to wrap it in <ref></ref> :P w/e | 22:10 |
| nmz787 | o | 22:14 |
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| nmz787 | huh, you have to pay for MPEG-2??? http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/1839 | 22:53 |
| nmz787 | http://www.raspberrypi.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12535 | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | "software for hardware assisted h.264 video encoding??" | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | "You cannot use the HW encoder - there is no licence for it. We hope to provide encoding at some point, but it requires licence payment to MPEGLA, which would have put the price up for everyone by $2 had it been included with every Pi. When the camera board is released, that will need a licence for the encoder." | 22:55 |
| nmz787 | I don't need a camera board with USB HD cameras | 22:55 |
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| nmz787 | wait, this dude is some biohacker guru and I've never heard of him?? http://www.sfgate.com/health/article/Biohackers-mining-their-own-bodies-data-3668230.php | 23:23 |
| nmz787 | (found via yashgaroth's wiki edits) | 23:24 |
| nmz787 | retraction edits | 23:24 |
| brownies | what is a pirate's favorite sciene? Arrrrrrrr-chaelogy! | 23:25 |
| brownies | *science. dammit. | 23:25 |
| foucist_ | nmz787: i'm a biohacker guru and you've never heard of me | 23:26 |
| nmz787 | foucist_: what's your speciality> | 23:41 |
| nmz787 | ? | 23:41 |
| nmz787 | foucist_: what rad hacks have you done? | 23:41 |
| klafka | are you elite? | 23:41 |
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| foucist_ | l33t | 23:57 |
| --- Log closed Thu Sep 27 00:00:38 2012 | ||
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