| --- Log opened Sat Jul 13 00:00:00 2013 | ||
| --- Day changed Sat Jul 13 2013 | ||
| nmz787 | i conect my android phone to my laptop all the time | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| nmz787 | so does kanzure | 00:00 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, so look at the example of the server and hardware firewall | 00:00 |
| delinquentme | what does a *mature* stack in these connections look like | 00:00 |
| delinquentme | hareware to hardware linux systems | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automation_protocols | 00:01 |
| delinquentme | what operating systems do kukas run? | 00:01 |
| delinquentme | OH perfect example | 00:01 |
| delinquentme | what does the operating system of tesla look like? | 00:01 |
| nmz787 | haven't heard of kuka or tesla | 00:01 |
| delinquentme | 1 its not USB connections | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | huh? | 00:02 |
| delinquentme | http://www.kuka.com/ | 00:02 |
| delinquentme | http://www.teslamotors.com/ | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | ok? | 00:02 |
| delinquentme | so I'd love to know what some of the best practices are when it comes to these | 00:02 |
| delinquentme | so like a tesla factory right? | 00:02 |
| jonathan____ | i2c is a master-slave protocol by definition fyi | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | it depends | 00:02 |
| nmz787 | that is a much different questioon 'linux to linux brah' | 00:03 |
| delinquentme | they run tons of6 DOF arms | 00:03 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, you're totally right. | 00:03 |
| delinquentme | I meant a linux to linux "mature" system | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | there's tons of electrical noise, so you need something from that list | 00:03 |
| delinquentme | and I know the terms are bleh | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | rs485 is where i'd start | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | ethernet is easy | 00:03 |
| nmz787 | and noise resistant at least in long runs | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | so probably locally in shorter runs | 00:04 |
| jonathan____ | irda | 00:04 |
| nmz787 | ethernet can be upto 1Gbit today, amazon.com | 00:04 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, not bad I think thats a solid spot | 00:05 |
| delinquentme | so OK two linux boxes, assumed ethernet to ethernet | 00:05 |
| delinquentme | does that use http? | 00:05 |
| delinquentme | say we've got a system isolated from the outside world | 00:05 |
| nmz787 | doesnt need to | 00:05 |
| delinquentme | we can totally chunk down http | 00:06 |
| delinquentme | BUT whether to do so or keep http ... i suppose | 00:06 |
| delinquentme | matters on who is programming the operations | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | 'The Hypertext Transfer Protocol (HTTP) is an application protocol for distributed, collaborative, hypermedia information systems. ' | 00:06 |
| delinquentme | so like my computer to a raspberry pi | 00:06 |
| nmz787 | are you xferring hypermedia? | 00:06 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, so I dont *need* to transfer hypermedia | 00:07 |
| delinquentme | wtf even is hyper media/ | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | you're too young, eh | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | never used hypercard? | 00:07 |
| delinquentme | ahhhhhhhh | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | that was, like the hipster's programming IDE | 00:07 |
| gradstudentbot | That's definitely a Nature paper. | 00:07 |
| delinquentme | ok so | 00:07 |
| nmz787 | well you're pretty hipster | 00:08 |
| delinquentme | http seems like a way of handling threaded operations | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | more than kanzure would like I think | 00:08 |
| nmz787 | always postin news links | 00:08 |
| delinquentme | IE async operations | 00:08 |
| delinquentme | true! | 00:08 |
| delinquentme | but so what im seeing from | 00:08 |
| delinquentme | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypermedia | 00:08 |
| delinquentme | essentially is " async " | 00:09 |
| delinquentme | no0? | 00:09 |
| jonathan____ | use nfs | 00:09 |
| jonathan____ | mount the filesystem over ethernet then it looks local | 00:09 |
| nmz787 | lol | 00:09 |
| delinquentme | intertwine to create a generally non-linear medium of information. | 00:09 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, I mean thats interesting | 00:09 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: you haven't told us your secret plan, give it up and stop beating around my bush | 00:09 |
| delinquentme | because in that case were talking about a *very* low level explicit connection | 00:10 |
| jonathan____ | standard method of developing using embedded linux systems like raspberry pie in the sky is to mount the baord's filesystem on the main pc with nfs | 00:10 |
| jonathan____ | otherwise use ssh and scp | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | jonathan____: that's too practical | 00:10 |
| jonathan____ | if no ethernet then use serial, 3 wires needed only | 00:10 |
| nmz787 | jonathan____: you should have elaborated on irda more | 00:10 |
| jonathan____ | over serial you run a tty and rsh | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | use morse code | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | that stack is mature as fuck | 00:11 |
| jonathan____ | irda is only if both machines are in same room.. linux irda stack is ok i think but been years since I looked | 00:11 |
| nmz787 | fiber? | 00:11 |
| jonathan____ | try to find irda hardware these days.. umm mmmm | 00:11 |
| jonathan____ | use the phone then, get analog modems on both machines and call one | 00:12 |
| jonathan____ | use uucp | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: really your answer is choose a protocol that has a decent API/structure for your application, choose a protocol that has a circuit that's appropriately noise-rejecting for your application | 00:12 |
| nmz787 | i actually want a modem for my android phone | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | so i can get dialup wherever | 00:13 |
| jonathan____ | there are soft modems | 00:13 |
| nmz787 | and modulate my calls to my girl with crypto | 00:13 |
| jonathan____ | fax decode for example | 00:13 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, I think you're hitting on a big portion of it here | 00:13 |
| delinquentme | im not entirely sure on the noise | 00:13 |
| jonathan____ | noise is either wide band or narrow band | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: this is why there are a bunch of protocols, because there are a bunch of real world situations where they work 'best' | 00:14 |
| delinquentme | nmz787, examples? | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | (or some dude ripped off the circuit and hijacked the API and changed the name) | 00:14 |
| nmz787 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automation_protocols | 00:15 |
| jonathan____ | CAN bus is very noise immune | 00:15 |
| delinquentme | how does an embedded system differ from an OS? | 00:15 |
| jonathan____ | differential voltage systems are more noise immune | 00:15 |
| jonathan____ | rs-232 is noise immune since it runs +/- 24V | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_(computing)#Examples_of_external_computer_buses | 00:16 |
| jonathan____ | that's a q for a kiddie site like stackoverflow | 00:16 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: an embedded system is... a system of hardware | 00:17 |
| nmz787 | an OS runs on hardware | 00:17 |
| jonathan____ | embedded kinda means it has no keyboard or mouse or monitor. | 00:17 |
| jonathan____ | as in, it's embedded in your car and you dont see it | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | if you gut a laptop and boot a router from a USB drive, it would be 'embedded' | 00:18 |
| jonathan____ | or, it's embedded in your wall and you don't see it | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | well, yeah maybe my last example would be exploded | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | not embedded | 00:18 |
| jonathan____ | or, it's embedded in your heart as a pace maker and you dont see it | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | i could take apart my router (which has an embedded ARM processor runnin linux) | 00:18 |
| nmz787 | and it would be exploded embedded | 00:19 |
| nmz787 | (i just made that up) | 00:19 |
| gradstudentbot | You know they keep the mice in better conditions than us. | 00:19 |
| jonathan____ | there is linux. and then there is embedded linux. and then there is the hell which is caused by both of them. | 00:19 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: embedded generally is more purpose-tuned | 00:19 |
| nmz787 | otherwise you call hardware general purpose | 00:20 |
| delinquentme | ok minor gear switch | 00:21 |
| nmz787 | whew | 00:21 |
| delinquentme | say the most integrated lab system out there | 00:21 |
| delinquentme | what governs it | 00:22 |
| delinquentme | integrated = automated | 00:22 |
| delinquentme | sorry wrong term | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | if you ask the whole world, most people being religious, the common answer might be God | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | he is the ultimate scientist | 00:22 |
| nmz787 | the ultimate grad student | 00:22 |
| delinquentme | ok so its going to be like | 00:22 |
| delinquentme | some pharma | 00:22 |
| delinquentme | some manufacturer | 00:23 |
| delinquentme | orrr | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | honestly, it's a toss up | 00:23 |
| delinquentme | i THINK ... tesla might b e a good example | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | go to the website of company X | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | look for downloads | 00:23 |
| nmz787 | then dissassemble | 00:23 |
| delinquentme | 1) they're going to have a ton of different mfgs robots | 00:23 |
| delinquentme | doing tons of different things | 00:23 |
| jonathan____ | the name is cavro | 00:23 |
| gradstudentbot | Who got mustard on my cell culture? | 00:24 |
| jonathan____ | robots are built from modular units | 00:24 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, not bad | 00:24 |
| delinquentme | so yeah but thats just one hardware component | 00:24 |
| jonathan____ | the main manufacturer was cavro and many companies copied their command sets | 00:24 |
| jonathan____ | therefore many robots today use cavro type commands | 00:24 |
| jonathan____ | that is any motor component | 00:24 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, what about when we've got a tecan freedom evo ( running a number of cavro components ) ... connected up to some system which governs how they interconnect | 00:24 |
| delinquentme | MAYE | 00:24 |
| jonathan____ | any pump. any liquid dispenser. | 00:24 |
| delinquentme | MAYBE | 00:24 |
| delinquentme | the solution is a wholly functional *node* | 00:25 |
| delinquentme | which handles evented input and outputs | 00:25 |
| jonathan____ | freedom evo can accept cavro commands for all parts. | 00:25 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, is cavro a protocol? | 00:26 |
| jonathan____ | which is why my perl robotics software can still run on evo | 00:26 |
| delinquentme | i thought it was a grand of hardware | 00:26 |
| jonathan____ | cavro was a manufacturer who was very popular and had a command set (aka protocol) that became popular and others adopted it | 00:26 |
| delinquentme | erm. grand = brand | 00:26 |
| jonathan____ | so now it can be called "cavro comamnds" | 00:26 |
| delinquentme | cavro was a company pre tecan? | 00:26 |
| jonathan____ | y | 00:27 |
| delinquentme | link | 00:27 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, it looks better if you see it through a UV scope. | 00:27 |
| jonathan____ | tecan did a lot of acquisitions | 00:27 |
| jonathan____ | link? | 00:27 |
| delinquentme | i need documentation of how this happened | 00:27 |
| delinquentme | yeah like the cavro website | 00:27 |
| jonathan____ | um do your own damn homework who cares | 00:27 |
| jonathan____ | often there is no documentation formally of "industry standards" | 00:28 |
| jonathan____ | it is just accepted practice in industry | 00:28 |
| jonathan____ | robo automation is a niche industry and many things are not formalized lke for example the IETF publishes RFCs for internet | 00:28 |
| gradstudentbot | Well, you can't guarantee that. | 00:29 |
| jonathan____ | robo companies just build something so it can work with their system, maybe it works with others, it competes with others, one model becomes popular, that's it | 00:29 |
| jonathan____ | look on ebay for cavro pump | 00:29 |
| delinquentme | IEFT? | 00:33 |
| delinquentme | Indigenous Education Foundation of Tanzania | 00:33 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, i gotta get water | 00:33 |
| delinquentme | talk | 00:33 |
| delinquentme | Yes i get the second part | 00:33 |
| delinquentme | however there is some level at which they decide that they need to support inter-machine integration | 00:33 |
| jonathan____ | no there isnt | 00:34 |
| jonathan____ | "they" | 00:34 |
| jonathan____ | it's like a car, every car model is slightly different, sometimes standards emerge but not always | 00:34 |
| jonathan____ | there's no "they" saying : ok every part on this car must talk reasonably to other parts with standard blah blah | 00:35 |
| jonathan____ | that is rare, typically only happens when a real talented dude lays down a hammer because business has started to sink | 00:35 |
| jonathan____ | otherwise divisions are happy to produce their own stuff, none of which talks to anyting else in a reasonable way | 00:36 |
| jonathan____ | that is industry | 00:36 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, were talking about the factory which builds the cars | 00:36 |
| delinquentme | so there are 6 dof arms .... | 00:36 |
| delinquentme | but clearly the 6 dof arms need to communicate with the doors of the painting area | 00:36 |
| jonathan____ | they buy 6 identical arms | 00:36 |
| jonathan____ | they don't buy 1 from bosch and one from catepillar and one from hundai | 00:37 |
| delinquentme | perhaps the group of 6 dof arms runs on an event from a single server | 00:37 |
| delinquentme | tag throws off ... 4 arms go through motions ... alert server when its done | 00:37 |
| jonathan____ | labview may be your answer | 00:37 |
| delinquentme | but like there needs to be communication between non-same-manufacturer systems | 00:38 |
| delinquentme | maybe! | 00:38 |
| delinquentme | but IDK if say tesla is running lab view | 00:38 |
| jonathan____ | there are sdk's for different systems | 00:38 |
| jonathan____ | tecan has their software which has plugins for different equip | 00:38 |
| delinquentme | im guessing its an evented server with c++ / java and linux | 00:38 |
| jonathan____ | doubt it | 00:38 |
| delinquentme | maybe over ethernet | 00:39 |
| jonathan____ | doubt it | 00:39 |
| jonathan____ | ethernet is not used in industrial environment. CAN is used | 00:39 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, they don't buy 1 from bosch and one from catepillar and one from hundai\ | 00:39 |
| delinquentme | you are correct | 00:39 |
| delinquentme | link to CAN plz | 00:39 |
| gradstudentbot | I remember the paper, I just don't remember the details. | 00:39 |
| delinquentme | but 6 dof arms are of the same "class" of achines | 00:39 |
| jonathan____ | dude find your own damn links this isn't stackoverflow | 00:39 |
| delinquentme | machines** | 00:39 |
| delinquentme | but clearly we can see a separation of class between doors to a paint shop | 00:40 |
| delinquentme | and 6 dof arms | 00:40 |
| delinquentme | SO | 00:40 |
| delinquentme | how do those talk to one another | 00:40 |
| jonathan____ | CAN bus | 00:41 |
| delinquentme | and say what about ... 6 dof arms to paintshop doors ... to say a curing furnace | 00:41 |
| delinquentme | yah i foun dit | 00:41 |
| delinquentme | found it | 00:41 |
| jonathan____ | GPIB | 00:41 |
| juri_ | i2c can survive long runs, if you wanted to make it all one machine. | 00:42 |
| jonathan____ | now go to the damn library and look up some books on industrial automation already | 00:42 |
| juri_ | er. i2s even. | 00:42 |
| jonathan____ | i2s has a synchronized clock so it wont run over long distances | 00:42 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, your first example was a p2p non host system | 00:42 |
| delinquentme | and the second was a physical style of connection | 00:42 |
| jonathan____ | ? | 00:43 |
| delinquentme | I'd put my money on a MASSIVE integration operation having a single host running all the events | 00:43 |
| jonathan____ | you mean CAN? | 00:43 |
| delinquentme | yes CAN is a p2p non host communication | 00:43 |
| jonathan____ | CAN is either master-slave or master-master | 00:43 |
| jonathan____ | "single host" != "p2p" | 00:44 |
| delinquentme | I'm saying that any big integration will probably be a one-to-many host operation | 00:44 |
| jonathan____ | ok well now I'm saying that I dont know what the heck you are trying to figure out anyways | 00:44 |
| jonathan____ | I'm saying the world is round. so? | 00:44 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: so what? | 00:45 |
| jonathan____ | what makes a master a master or a slave a slave. well there's always a grey area of where to put diff types of intelligence | 00:45 |
| nmz787 | delinquentme: none of this matters unless you tell us why it matters | 00:46 |
| nmz787 | we're not accomplishing anything at any decent rate here | 00:46 |
| jonathan____ | engineers always go back & forth on "should we make this part the smart one, or this other part hte smart one?" | 00:46 |
| nmz787 | I gave you links to CAN and I2C an hour ago | 00:46 |
| jonathan____ | "should we put the motion sensor in the arm, or in the master controller?" | 00:46 |
| nmz787 | ok myabe 30 ins | 00:46 |
| nmz787 | mins | 00:46 |
| jonathan____ | I'm guessing he is smoking pot and contemplating his navel | 00:46 |
| nmz787 | probably in today's world, each robot has it's own 1GHz processor | 00:47 |
| jonathan____ | "wow man, it's like, there's a CENTRAL MASSIVELY INTEGRATED CONTROLLER, man!" | 00:47 |
| nmz787 | however it connects is up to the dude who ordered that day | 00:47 |
| nmz787 | as all the companies probably offer a few interfaces | 00:47 |
| jonathan____ | i'm betting it's unique for each assembly line. | 00:47 |
| jonathan____ | oh, this assembly line has the old paint sprayer machine, it needs controller X. this other line hasthe newer one, so it needs controller Y. | 00:48 |
| nmz787 | or there's a company for every interface | 00:48 |
| nmz787 | :P | 00:48 |
| nmz787 | but yeah, delinquentme , why does it matter | 00:48 |
| nmz787 | what are you trying to innovate in connecting shit? | 00:48 |
| jonathan____ | don't worry cause it's all like P2P massively integrated on linux man, like massively parallel multiplexed man | 00:48 |
| nmz787 | you spend another $30-3000 dollars (depending on how stupid and gullibe you, the company is) and just add more workers to the system | 00:49 |
| nmz787 | integrate your integrations | 00:49 |
| jonathan____ | one time I was in the undergrad lab and this 15 year old kid comes in with his mom, and everyone is giving him shit like "wow you're in college? wow how old are you?" and I was the only one to really listen to what the hell he was talking about, finally he says, "I have an idea for a new type of logic gate which uses minimal power" | 00:49 |
| nmz787 | nice | 00:50 |
| jonathan____ | then the kid says, "you see, it uses magnetic flux to switch, which doesnt cause any conduction, and this is much better than a FET which will cause current to flow" | 00:50 |
| jonathan____ | or at least, he tried to say that. | 00:50 |
| nmz787 | hawt damn | 00:50 |
| jonathan____ | what did he totally 100% fail to see? | 00:50 |
| nmz787 | dang | 00:50 |
| nmz787 | the coil uses power? | 00:50 |
| jonathan____ | it's a genius idea, but what is like the huge huge major failure? | 00:51 |
| nmz787 | earth's flux? | 00:51 |
| jonathan____ | that he completely totally overlooked and was probably like "wow man like massively integrated parallel multiplexing man!" | 00:51 |
| gradstudentbot | You know they keep the mice in better conditions than us. | 00:51 |
| jonathan____ | magnetic force is like 1000 magnitude less force than electron charge. someone translate that into physics undergrad speak cuz it's been too long for me. | 00:52 |
| jonathan____ | anyways I had to burst his bubble | 00:52 |
| jonathan____ | and then he just kind of said, "oh." | 00:52 |
| nmz787 | some r^3 shit? | 00:52 |
| jonathan____ | um it's not r^3 it's the physical constant | 00:52 |
| nmz787 | or 1/r^something | 00:52 |
| nmz787 | henries? | 00:52 |
| jonathan____ | it's the flux constant vs. the e charge | 00:53 |
| jonathan____ | well hell, why'd it take so long to find higgs? cause the damn constant is soooo small... | 00:53 |
| nmz787 | i never took undergrad physics, not yet! | 00:53 |
| jonathan____ | anways | 00:53 |
| jonathan____ | I guess his mom got the idea that he didn't like that conclusion too much and she said real quick, "I think it's time to go home, you're tired right? it's been a long day" and whisked him out of there | 00:54 |
| nmz787 | his answer should have been, nah the gate will just be 1000X smaller | 00:54 |
| jonathan____ | I tried to offer him some textbooks and invite him back anytime he wanted, but I never saw the dude again | 00:54 |
| nmz787 | there's plenty of room down there! | 00:54 |
| jonathan____ | anyways that's a true story | 00:54 |
| nmz787 | so he was in school with you? | 00:55 |
| nmz787 | or like, he took a night class here and there? | 00:55 |
| nmz787 | or just got into a lab you werent in? | 00:55 |
| nmz787 | lol | 00:55 |
| jonathan____ | yeah he was actually going to college classes.. I forget what major, def not in EE dept | 00:55 |
| jonathan____ | maybe he was a math major or something | 00:55 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 00:55 |
| jonathan____ | but his mom apparently "found" the undergrad EE lab so he could come in and ask his question and maybe she thought he'd find some friends | 00:55 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 00:56 |
| jonathan____ | instead, a bunch of peeps giving him pressure about "wow you're so young" and bullshit like that | 00:56 |
| jonathan____ | last thing he probably wanted to hear... he probably just wanted everyone to be chill and shoot the technie nerdie talk with him | 00:56 |
| nmz787 | huh, well i guess his mom sucks for not bringing him back or taking your text book advice | 00:56 |
| jonathan____ | yea she was kind of nervous overprotective type | 00:56 |
| jonathan____ | like "oh no poor billy is overwhelmed" | 00:57 |
| nmz787 | uh oh, time for your medication | 00:57 |
| jonathan____ | i mean, why does mom even need to take him, he's 15 he can find it | 00:57 |
| jonathan____ | maybe he was younger.. I forget | 00:57 |
| jonathan____ | I think he was in his 2nd year of college | 00:57 |
| jonathan____ | probably all his friends too busy playing Magic or whatever lol | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | i dunno, i plan on having kids someday | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | it seems like it would be a weird thing to go through | 00:58 |
| nmz787 | from them depending on you to some time later them riding off on a dirt bike | 00:59 |
| nmz787 | or something | 00:59 |
| jonathan____ | well lets see... go to college early or live thru high school eh first option please | 00:59 |
| nmz787 | i plan on shoving information at my kids non-stop during any TV time | 00:59 |
| nmz787 | i'm not sure how happy that will make them | 01:00 |
| jonathan____ | dont even buy a tv | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | but i can't really think they would distinguish Cosmos from tellytubbycrap | 01:00 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, sorry im caught up in the massive integration part | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | whatever kids watch these days | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | nah TV is good | 01:00 |
| delinquentme | that preempts the ability to make this switch usable? | 01:00 |
| nmz787 | i mean, the actual hardware | 01:01 |
| jonathan____ | no need to watch educational tv nowadays, just go online for that | 01:01 |
| nmz787 | well yeah | 01:01 |
| nmz787 | queue up MIT courseware for the infant | 01:01 |
| nmz787 | i wonder how long it would take to watch all of current opencourseware | 01:01 |
| jonathan____ | parents I know who say their kids have been home schooled always say the same thing "when they went to high school finally, they were so much ahead of everyone else" | 01:02 |
| nmz787 | .wa hours of opencourseware | 01:02 |
| jonathan____ | well DUH | 01:02 |
| yoleaux | nmz787: Sorry, no result! | 01:02 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:02 | |
| jonathan____ | only reason to go to school is to talk to girls basically, otherwise forget it | 01:03 |
| delinquentme | talk to? | 01:03 |
| gradstudentbot | The paper was rejected. | 01:03 |
| jonathan____ | use a p2p protocol | 01:03 |
| nmz787 | huh, i can't find the total num hours of opencourseware | 01:03 |
| delinquentme | ohhhh | 01:03 |
| delinquentme | ic2 now | 01:03 |
| nmz787 | well it seems like there are more than a few years of online college video material | 01:06 |
| jonathan____ | yes it's awesome | 01:06 |
| nmz787 | i wonder if streaming it all to an infant would be OK | 01:06 |
| jonathan____ | just waiting till I can get a phd online lol | 01:06 |
| nmz787 | like, non-violent stuff | 01:06 |
| nmz787 | like all the math stuff | 01:06 |
| nmz787 | just on repeat | 01:06 |
| jonathan____ | well i bet kids could easily learn 4 languages by 12 yo | 01:06 |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:06 | |
| nmz787 | communicate to the child only with math | 01:07 |
| nmz787 | hmm | 01:07 |
| jonathan____ | stream into the verbal cortex first maybe lol | 01:07 |
| nmz787 | just pulse some digital logic at it | 01:07 |
| nmz787 | modem | 01:07 |
| jonathan____ | internet really has simplified language study | 01:07 |
| nmz787 | i'm sure if the right setup could be figured out, you could train humans to do some really cool electronic glue logic | 01:08 |
| nmz787 | teach it irda | 01:08 |
| nmz787 | obv that's super low bandwidth | 01:09 |
| jonathan____ | eeg | 01:09 |
| nmz787 | 'daddy wants me to be an organ donor when i grow up!' | 01:10 |
| nmz787 | 'daddy says i'd make a great organ donor when i grow up!' | 01:11 |
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| delinquentme | BCL2 > stress-induced autophagy | 01:27 |
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| cathalgarvey | Anyone here familiar with paperbot's more recent code? | 05:57 |
| cathalgarvey | Specifically: what is the environment variable "SCIHUB_PASSWORD"? | 05:57 |
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| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: scihub requires a password | 06:10 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: i had to blackmail the sci-hub.org owner to get a deal for my ip address | 06:10 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: you can safely not provide it | 06:10 |
| @kanzure | nmz787: i dunno if vince does bitcoins. but probably he will pay you via paypal. 8 years ago i paid him to do orchestral composition and recordings for a few video games i was making. and that was paypal. | 06:11 |
| cathalgarvey | @kanzure So if you don't provide a password environment variable and it still works.. what's the point? | 06:12 |
| cathalgarvey | i.e. if I wanted to deplay paperbot using the Scihub API, what's stopping me right now, lacking a SCIHUB_PASSWORD? | 06:13 |
| cathalgarvey | i.e. this is the commit immediately prior to the environment variable stuff, and it doesn't seem to mention cookies at all: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/blob/08927457b6802daac7a4efd3f0d5c4eabc3e25cb/modules/scihub.py#L12 | 06:15 |
| cathalgarvey | So, what's the advantage of a sci-hub cookie? | 06:15 |
| nsh | sweet sweet saccharine calories | 06:19 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: the scihub cookie is not my fault | 06:21 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: the sci-hub.org person is fucking nuts | 06:21 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: punched a hole in a firewall with paperbot's ip address, and then also wants that cookie to be present | 06:21 |
| cathalgarvey | Oh I'm not complaining, just wondering whether it's necessary to refactor scihub.py into a terminal client | 06:22 |
| cathalgarvey | I can understand him being paranoid because he's sort of spitting in the eyes of big copyright here | 06:22 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: it probably works for you because you're not in the US | 06:22 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: sci-hub.org is blocking US ip addresses | 06:22 |
| cathalgarvey | I haven't tested whether it works for me | 06:22 |
| @kanzure | 06:12 < cathalgarvey> @kanzure So if you don't provide a password environment variable and it still works.. what's the point? | 06:23 |
| @kanzure | make up your mind :( | 06:23 |
| cathalgarvey | but if it's specifically anti-US, that'd fit my hypothesis that he's just paranoid of Big Copyright, all right | 06:23 |
| cathalgarvey | Sorry if that appeared adversarial, I was just wondering what the cookie was for | 06:23 |
| @kanzure | he's already getting emails from elsevier | 06:23 |
| @kanzure | paypal account was frozen | 06:23 |
| @kanzure | i was able to transfer his funds to bitcoins before that happened | 06:24 |
| cathalgarvey | Hahaha | 06:24 |
| cathalgarvey | hence your leverage | 06:24 |
| @kanzure | no, my leverage is identity blackmail | 06:24 |
| cathalgarvey | Although... I'll leave it to you to figure out that having said that on a publicly logged irc channel puts you in a legal gray area.. | 06:24 |
| cathalgarvey | Cool, will try to refactor and see what happens without the environment variable/cookies | 06:25 |
| cathalgarvey | Need a nice terminal client for getting my PLoS papers, don't you know | 06:25 |
| cathalgarvey | :) | 06:25 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: if you are going to be doing some minor work on paperbot, it would be exceedingly cool if you could split paperbot into two parts.. first part is something like, the phenny/irc junk. the second part is a generic python library called paperbot. | 06:27 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: there's no reason for both parts to be in the same place, that's just how it was written and how it came to be | 06:28 |
| @kanzure | cathalgarvey: but that doesn't mean it's right | 06:28 |
| cathalgarvey | Sorry, not working on paperbot here | 06:28 |
| cathalgarvey | Just using the scihub stuff to write a CLI client for scihub.. | 06:28 |
| @kanzure | ah okay | 06:29 |
| cathalgarvey | But is that what you meant? As in, you'd like a Py module for paper getting and a separate phenny module that just farms out to the interface-agnostic module? | 06:29 |
| @kanzure | yes | 06:29 |
| cathalgarvey | Without meaning to offend, I find the code in paperbot's repo kinda difficult to read; lots of opaquely named variables | 06:29 |
| cathalgarvey | I know that's because there's lots of outside commits etc., but I'm not sure I'd know how to refactor in short order without breaking everything | 06:30 |
| @kanzure | hahah yeah ParahSailin wrote scihub.py | 06:31 |
| @kanzure | and he kept writing with three-letter variables | 06:31 |
| cathalgarvey | Yea, those ones! :P | 06:31 |
| @kanzure | so look, feel free to break *anything* | 06:31 |
| cathalgarvey | Who is ParaSailin, btw? Sure I've asked this before | 06:31 |
| @kanzure | the code is terrible and therefore deserves to die. | 06:31 |
| @kanzure | if it's not tested, it's probably broken anyway. | 06:31 |
| cathalgarvey | Haha didn't wanna say anything about the embedded, pseudorecursive functions | 06:31 |
| @kanzure | ParahSailin is a molecular biology goon out of rice university. used to work for SENS. currently does haskell/bioinformatics stuff for a sequencing company. | 06:32 |
| cathalgarvey | Good old SENS | 06:32 |
| cathalgarvey | You think it's all just one nutty guy with a homeless beard | 06:32 |
| cathalgarvey | and then you start meeting them everywhere | 06:32 |
| cathalgarvey | :) | 06:33 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/aubrey.jpg | 06:33 |
| cathalgarvey | :D :D | 06:35 |
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| @kanzure | so i was wondering why this batch of adderall seemed to be no good | 08:06 |
| @kanzure | so i tried to predict if it was gonna be teva or corepharma or shire | 08:07 |
| @kanzure | it turns out it's actavis. who the fuck is actavis? | 08:07 |
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| @kanzure | i like how both ParahSailin and cathalgarvey are suspicious of each other | 08:34 |
| @kanzure | go go lab team paranoia | 08:34 |
| @kanzure | "the government is out to get my mastermix" | 08:35 |
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| ParaSa1lin | i probably shouldnt keep my stash of adderall in my car | 08:47 |
| @kanzure | bad storage conditions | 08:47 |
| @kanzure | aren't you still in houston? | 08:47 |
| ParaSa1lin | yeah | 08:47 |
| @kanzure | i've been meaning to be more careful about which manufacturers i accept when i buy | 08:48 |
| ParaSa1lin | its xr so not that valuable to me | 08:48 |
| ParaSa1lin | i dont really need 8 hours of frenzy | 08:48 |
| @kanzure | personally i think the xr manufacturers vary dramatically in quality but i don't have proof yet | 08:48 |
| gradstudentbot | I don't know whether I am Turing dreaming that I am a machine, or a machine dreaming that I am Turing! | 08:50 |
| ParaSa1lin | xr has polymer matrix of some sort? | 08:50 |
| @kanzure | i don't even have qualitative proof. i should be jotting down manufacturer vs. results. i could look back on irc logs or commits against bottles (i have old bottles with labels) i guess. | 08:50 |
| ParaSa1lin | that definitely would be pretty variable | 08:50 |
| @kanzure | well, shire has some proprietary release gel matrix thingy | 08:50 |
| @kanzure | or release beads that are different somehow | 08:51 |
| @kanzure | i haven't experienced variability with the tablets, though | 08:51 |
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| ParaSa1lin | cathal's completely harmless | 08:52 |
| ParaSa1lin | he wouldnt even hurt a jellyfish | 08:53 |
| ParaSa1lin | if variability of delivery vehicles is bad, imagine how variable quality of biosimilar antibody drugs would be | 08:58 |
| yashgaroth | it's already bad enough between fermentation runs of the original | 09:01 |
| ParaSa1lin | they can't even do batch to batch consistency? | 09:04 |
| ParaSa1lin | paperbot, http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2013/07/09/jnci.djt174.abstract | 09:05 |
| yashgaroth | they try | 09:05 |
| paperbot | http://pdf.highwire.org/stamped/jnci/early/2013/07/09/jnci.djt174.full.pdf | 09:05 |
| yashgaroth | depends on the drug, sometimes you can get away with more variation in glycosylation etc | 09:06 |
| ParaSa1lin | there is no try... | 09:06 |
| ParaSa1lin | paperbot, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0142961212003237 | 09:06 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag3/10.1016/j.biomaterials.2012.03.036.pdf | 09:06 |
| jonathan____ | cathal has been known to dismember helpless flies | 09:13 |
| jonathan____ | the dude is vicious | 09:13 |
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| @kanzure | yashgaroth: favorite pipette brand? | 09:27 |
| yashgaroth | like pipettor or tips? | 09:29 |
| @kanzure | pipettor | 09:29 |
| @kanzure | i had one of those really bad ideas | 09:29 |
| yashgaroth | rainin I guess, since everywhere I've worked uses them | 09:30 |
| @kanzure | basically a pencil troll except for pipettes. except not a troll, other plastic junk. | 09:30 |
| @kanzure | what are those called anyway? pencil socks? | 09:30 |
| yashgaroth | well you do need to manipulate them on the troll end | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | yeah, i said not a troll. | 09:31 |
| @kanzure | for instance, a skull pipettor | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | wouldn't fit on the rack though | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | unless you're one of the weirdos that hangs his pipettor? | 09:32 |
| yashgaroth | or leaves them laying around on the bench | 09:32 |
| @kanzure | not weird, just normal | 09:33 |
| yashgaroth | there's not really much free space on them, I can't think of a place to put something that wouldn't be aggravating | 09:34 |
| yashgaroth | the closest you get is unicorn stickers on a multichannel | 09:34 |
| @kanzure | no thanks | 09:34 |
| yashgaroth | I could see a nice ergo wrap for them, like molded finger grooves, grippy texture | 09:35 |
| @kanzure | i think that could just be a rubber sleeve | 09:35 |
| yashgaroth | sure but it's biotech so you could sell it for 50, maybe 75 bucks | 09:35 |
| @kanzure | i thought these were already ergo-optimized | 09:36 |
| @kanzure | or at least.. why did i think that? | 09:36 |
| @kanzure | i've used some that had finger grooves, but i never considered if they were actually good grooves | 09:36 |
| yashgaroth | they fit in your hand, but it's still just curved plastic | 09:36 |
| @kanzure | right, i think a lot of people associate "ergonomic" with "any curves whatsoever" | 09:37 |
| yashgaroth | well when I splurge on some single-channels for the lab, I'ma fit some bike innertube around it and see how that goes | 09:38 |
| @kanzure | i also make that same assumption about keyboards. there's ergonomic keyboards but really they are just curved. i wonder if they consulted with some hand docs and they were like "well, that's better than not curved, so yeah sure that's ergonomic". | 09:39 |
| @kanzure | because it's not like there are that many papers studying the range of possible hand motions | 09:40 |
| yashgaroth | 'thanks for the consulting money' | 09:40 |
| Zhwazi | In terms of keyboards I'd say the biggest ergonomic improvements are good keyswitches, light springs, and a dvorak layout. | 09:41 |
| Zhwazi | I don't really care for curvey shapes myself. | 09:41 |
| @kanzure | Zhwazi: dvorak might be okay for ergonomic reasons, but not typing efficiency as far as i can tell. | 09:42 |
| @kanzure | oops i don't mean efficiency | 09:42 |
| @kanzure | i mean wpm | 09:42 |
| Zhwazi | I was gonna say, it's great for efficiency. | 09:42 |
| Zhwazi | It's also great for wpm. The world record for typing was set on a dvorak keyboard. | 09:42 |
| @kanzure | http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=kanzure | 09:43 |
| Zhwazi | It's just different. It will slow you down until you're used to it. | 09:43 |
| @kanzure | my friend here doesn't use dvorak either http://www.seanwrona.com/typeracer/profile.php?username=arenasnow2 | 09:43 |
| @kanzure | my point is that dvorak isn't a substantial change. it's definitely not an order of magnitude difference. | 09:43 |
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| Zhwazi | You can type fast without it, but if you're as practiced on dvorak as you are on qwerty, it's just as fast if not faster. | 09:43 |
| Zhwazi | I'm not saying qwerty is slow, just that it's not as ergonomic as dvorak is. | 09:44 |
| @kanzure | whatever. i'm more curious about plover i guess. | 09:44 |
| Zhwazi | My fingers have to move a lot less to type on dvorak. | 09:44 |
| @kanzure | my biggest holdup on plover so far is special characters. and that everyone has different dictionaries. | 09:45 |
| @kanzure | i think the default or most common sequence for a period is really giving you a period and a space. which is not exactly what i mean when i am coding. | 09:46 |
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| ParaSa1lin | kanzure, one of my coworkers was telling me that he preordered some sort of input device that watched hand gestures or something | 09:56 |
| ParaSa1lin | you have any idea what that could be? | 09:56 |
| @kanzure | if your coworker is really lame then it was probably a kinect | 09:57 |
| ParaSa1lin | nah, wasnt kinect | 10:00 |
| @kanzure | hrmm https://github.com/plover/plover/master/plover/assets/dict.json | 10:00 |
| ParaSa1lin | leap motion | 10:00 |
| @kanzure | i still don't know why they have this silly intermediate grammar | 10:01 |
| @kanzure | when they say -FPLT they don't actually mean FPLT, they mean something completely different | 10:01 |
| @kanzure | and for some reason when i do type FPLT, it gives me a period and a space.. even though it says just period there. wtf? | 10:02 |
| @kanzure | see for yourself: http://stenoknight.com/plover/ploverdemo/ploverdemo.html | 10:02 |
| @kanzure | http://stenoknight.com/plover/steno-alphabet-for-web-full-size.jpg | 10:05 |
| @kanzure | i guess it's nice to have an intermediate alphabet/grammar so that people transitioning to your platform will know how to use it | 10:05 |
| ParaSa1lin | paperbot, http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/pmidlookup?view=long&pmid=23482635 | 10:12 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1096%2Ffj.12-220764 | 10:12 |
| @kanzure | pressing down on p;c simultaneously is supposed to be 'sat' but all i get is "at ". | 10:24 |
| @kanzure | at least, p;c is according to http://stenoknight.com/STPRRPTS.jpg | 10:24 |
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| @kanzure | oh oops that's because neither of these keyboards have rollover | 10:29 |
| @kanzure | well that makes a lot of sense | 10:29 |
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| @fenn | "proud member of the Strategic Fat Guy Reserve" | 11:43 |
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| jonathan____ | so i was scanning thru the video of the live stream | 11:47 |
| jonathan____ | some dude wrote a message on a piece of paper, walked up to the camera, and held it up | 11:47 |
| jonathan____ | too bad for him, resolution was set too low to get his msg across | 11:48 |
| jonathan____ | note to future conspirators: use wide sharpie pens to write messages for display on random cameras. pen ink is not bold enough. | 11:48 |
| archels` | people have been graffiti-ing 'Quis custodes ipsos custodiet?' around here | 11:51 |
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| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/diybio/biotechnbeyond-attendees.yaml.txt | 12:02 |
| @kanzure | wait.. is joe's mom named jan? | 12:03 |
| yashgaroth | employer: California State San Marcos | 12:06 |
| @kanzure | it says http://www.alere.com/ | 12:07 |
| yashgaroth | what, mine? | 12:07 |
| @kanzure | yeah, not san marcos | 12:08 |
| yashgaroth | only 2 people on there from alere and I'm one of them | 12:08 |
| @kanzure | Ellen Mae Rudy: | 12:08 |
| yashgaroth | jan jackson's says cal state | 12:09 |
| @kanzure | oh hm | 12:09 |
| @kanzure | good point | 12:09 |
| @kanzure | oh wait that's missing half | 12:14 |
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| delinquentme | half caf? | 12:17 |
| delinquentme | lame | 12:17 |
| delinquentme | full caf | 12:17 |
| delinquentme | get crakd | 12:18 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, i mishshew =[ | 12:18 |
| delinquentme | WHAT ARE WE GON WERK ON | 12:18 |
| @kanzure | rewrite paperbot | 12:18 |
| @kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot | 12:18 |
| @kanzure | separate out the irc stuff from the rest of it | 12:18 |
| delinquentme | At the end of the day, your life happiness will not be dominated by your career. | 12:22 |
| delinquentme | ^ face palm | 12:22 |
| delinquentme | its not biotech =[ | 12:22 |
| jonathan____ | uh you put the attendee list in yaml | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | that's how i dump data into my stalk log | 12:26 |
| @kanzure | 69,199 entries and counting | 12:26 |
| jonathan____ | but my entry is not correct raaaaaa | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | and then i can run queries on this database | 12:27 |
| jonathan____ | i insist you stalk me properly | 12:27 |
| @kanzure | how is it wrong? | 12:28 |
| jonathan____ | - Jonathan Cline <jcline@ieee.org>: | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | am i mispelling your name | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | oh is this the one where you added an n | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | jncline? | 12:28 |
| jonathan____ | is this a real key? - name <something> | 12:28 |
| @kanzure | in yaml you can make a list entry with "-" | 12:29 |
| jonathan____ | <yes but this> | 12:29 |
| @kanzure | in this case my list entries are each just a single dictionary: "- {}" which looks like "- stuff: { ... }" | 12:29 |
| jonathan____ | ie your db should have a mailto: value <not a this> | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | oh, the system parses the yaml into a reasonable format before dumping into the real database | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | so Name <email> gets parsed into name, and then the email address added to the list of known email addresses | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | and then i have other tricks for nicknames and name changes | 12:30 |
| jonathan____ | i wonder if anyone else thought to dump the list of attendees eh probably not only i'm that crazy | 12:30 |
| @kanzure | yashgaroth / max so that i can keep track of stupid idents | 12:31 |
| @kanzure | well, i usually "mysteriously acquire" attendee lists from all sorts of events | 12:31 |
| @kanzure | so i can do intersection lookups like.. people who were at sb 5 and singularity summit 2009 | 12:31 |
| @kanzure | but who didn't go to sens | 12:31 |
| jonathan____ | you have a bright future working for salesforce.com | 12:31 |
| gradstudentbot | Heh, undergrads. | 12:32 |
| @kanzure | if you feel like watching a video about my system, there's http://quantifiedself.com/2011/08/bryan-bishop-on-meetlog/ | 12:32 |
| jonathan____ | joe should advertise on north park so there's cool art people who come to the lab! | 12:32 |
| jonathan____ | oh thats interesting I will watch | 12:33 |
| @kanzure | i have some friends that show up in the weirdest places | 12:33 |
| @kanzure | and i wouldn't immediately recognize them because it's completely out of context / wrong contexts | 12:33 |
| @kanzure | also i have this problem where, without this crutch, i wouldn't be able to completely remember what i'm forgetting to talk with certain people about (e.g., i still have a fairly strong separation between certain programming friends for no good reason..) | 12:34 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, you're jcline?? | 12:35 |
| jonathan____ | no man don't insult me | 12:35 |
| jonathan____ | that guys an asshole | 12:35 |
| @kanzure | the best kind though | 12:35 |
| delinquentme | what makes you say that? | 12:35 |
| jonathan____ | dude everybody knows it just google it | 12:35 |
| jonathan____ | Hmm have you tried graphing in graphviz or freemind | 12:36 |
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| @kanzure | jonathan____: i've made some graphs, like http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/tags.2010-08-09-1150.html | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | and http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/graphs/jonathan_cline.png | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | (note: knowledge is "times that other people have told me about a person", not.. knowledge.) | 12:37 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/2010-01-01_to_2010-02-25.png | 12:37 |
| jonathan____ | what is "knowledge" | 12:38 |
| jonathan____ | oh | 12:38 |
| jonathan____ | it's 7 deg of separation effecgt | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | i also do tag stats, http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/other/tag_champions.txt | 12:38 |
| yashgaroth | pre-opening pics http://imgur.com/a/48dza | 12:38 |
| @kanzure | if you could suggest something for me to dump into graphviz, i could try it sometime | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | conversations are tagged with topics | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | so i could just graph tags that are commonly pointing to each other | 12:39 |
| @kanzure | and then look at clusters and pretend i'm doing "big data" | 12:40 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, wat is this graph about? | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: jonathan____ was asking if i have dumped my data into graphviz. i was telling him no. | 12:42 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: it's just my meetlog/stalk database/everyone i have ever met | 12:43 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, idk i was hoping you were him | 12:43 |
| delinquentme | but you were a bit uppity last night | 12:43 |
| delinquentme | ( speaking of assholes ) | 12:43 |
| @kanzure | i don't know why you have so much trouble with this one | 12:44 |
| @kanzure | he already said yes he's the same person | 12:44 |
| delinquentme | ah! was only skimming | 12:45 |
| delinquentme | cool! jonathan____ good to have you in here | 12:45 |
| delinquentme | << carlcrott@gmail.com | 12:46 |
| delinquentme | wheres the peristaltic pump? | 12:46 |
| jonathan____ | there's no such thing as uppity i just insist people do homework | 12:46 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, ha | 12:47 |
| jonathan____ | thanks for the pix | 12:47 |
| delinquentme | pix on? | 12:47 |
| jonathan____ | now I can send them to random people and it seems i'm working in a lab rather than the opposite of that | 12:47 |
| delinquentme | Im still not convinced that we have a really solid answer as to control setups in massive machine inegrations | 12:47 |
| jonathan____ | who's "we" | 12:48 |
| jonathan____ | what's "massive" | 12:48 |
| @kanzure | massivebio.com is available | 12:49 |
| @kanzure | oh wait i forgot that you had used yaml in the past | 12:50 |
| @kanzure | i guess that explains your yaml question above | 12:50 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, discussion last night concerning tesla | 12:50 |
| jonathan____ | well i certainly am self satisfied with the answers I have | 12:51 |
| @fenn | the photos really do look like a legit lab and not just a room with stuff i nit | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | "- x" and "- [1, 2, 3]" and "- { }" and "- key: value" are all valid yaml | 12:51 |
| jonathan____ | yes but key has restrictions eh | 12:51 |
| @fenn | <> characters don't mean anything special afaik | 12:51 |
| delinquentme | jonathan____, haha so youre final conclusion is "ad hoc everything" | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | he never said ad hoc | 12:51 |
| delinquentme | sounds like a shitty answer | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | go read the damn logs | 12:51 |
| @kanzure | don't waste our time | 12:51 |
| jonathan____ | no man my conclusion is you need to go read a textbook on industrial control systems | 12:52 |
| delinquentme | I was there? | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-07-12.log | 12:52 |
| @fenn | so i just read the logs and my conclusion is that delinquentme needs to read a book on industrial control systems | 12:52 |
| jonathan____ | yea you were there but you were on drugs | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | and not the good kind | 12:52 |
| @kanzure | oh wait that was in today's log | 12:53 |
| @fenn | also I2C over long distances in an industrial environment is a horrible idea | 12:53 |
| delinquentme | I dont recall this part | 12:53 |
| @kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-07-13.log | 12:53 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: a mature low latency standard computer to computer interface is 1394 "firewire" | 12:55 |
| @fenn | and ethernet is not bad, especially when you use etherCAT hardware | 12:56 |
| jonathan____ | yaml : "ERROR: | 12:56 |
| jonathan____ | Reserved indicators can't | 12:56 |
| jonathan____ | start a plain scalar." | 12:56 |
| @kanzure | what was the test sample? | 12:56 |
| @fenn | foo = yaml.load("- <blah>"); foo | 12:57 |
| @fenn | Out[4]: ['<blah>'] | 12:57 |
| @fenn | works for me | 12:57 |
| jonathan____ | sure it might be accepted by the parser. i guess its not explicitly allowed. | 12:57 |
| jonathan____ | or not explicitly disallowed. | 12:57 |
| @kanzure | is it possible that you have an old perl/yaml module from cpan? | 12:57 |
| delinquentme | fenn, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EtherCAT I like this | 12:57 |
| jonathan____ | key with space seems a bit funky as is having reserved chars in the key itself | 12:58 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: keep in mind that you have to use only etherCAT hardware in your subnet, or it doesn't work | 12:58 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: to be fair, my format needs a lot of work | 12:59 |
| jonathan____ | well you said it was run thru a preparser anyways | 12:59 |
| delinquentme | you're saying that ONLY these connected to the same units will work | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: for example, right now i have situations where i have "max powers" and "Max Powers" and some french idiots "Max POWERS" | 12:59 |
| jonathan____ | so it could be a new rfc called kanzureaml | 12:59 |
| delinquentme | I wonder how cyan plays into all of this | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: right, i take name keys and i standardize them | 12:59 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: i need a better way to log this data though. i used to have a phone widget that dumped my call log data daily. and skype logs (audio recording). and google voice recordings. but a lot of that has been broken for a while.. | 13:00 |
| @fenn | jonathan____: what was the string that gave you a yaml error? | 13:01 |
| @kanzure | until recently there was a rather complete yaml dump of my database sitting on my web server. google even indexed it. nobody complained to me about the existence of that. it was surprising. had to delete it. | 13:02 |
| jonathan____ | so my boss walked into my cube recently and asked for my status on a high priority work item. while we were talking i guess his iphone buzzed so he took it out and started using it. but he also has an ipad mini that he uses sometimes. and he has a mac laptop that he brings in from home. and he has his company thinkpad. and he has a desk phone of course. so he has more hi-thruput modern communication devices than limbs. | 13:02 |
| jonathan____ | no string gave me a yaml error, i'm reading the spec http://www.yaml.org/spec/1.2/spec.html#Syntax | 13:03 |
| @kanzure | well, all of my devices connect to the same irc context | 13:03 |
| @kanzure | so it's mostly about which one i am currently using | 13:03 |
| @kanzure | burn him alive! he's reading specifications! | 13:04 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: btw if you read the html5 spec and css3 spec you're like leagues ahead of the vast majority of web developes getting employed anywhere eve | 13:04 |
| @kanzure | *ever | 13:04 |
| @kanzure | *developers | 13:05 |
| jonathan____ | @ is a reserved char of course. i guess it doesnt kill anything in the existing parsers tho since they're reading til end of line. | 13:05 |
| @fenn | the only thing i see about angle brackets is stuff about tags, and all tags start with !< | 13:06 |
| jonathan____ | i think you could graph the 'knowledge' somehow in graphviz, however you craete that metric. | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | in those graphs, it was just a cumulative count of how many tags i have applied via the 'knowledge' entrypoint | 13:07 |
| @kanzure | s/graphs/charts | 13:07 |
| jonathan____ | i.e. if you're counting grep 'fenn:.*jonathan' then you do fenn -> jonathan | 13:07 |
| jonathan____ | then you would get connection mapping diagram of sorts | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | oh geeze why have i been doing "location: whatever, whatever".. it should be {location: whatever}. i don't know why that didn't occur to me. i guess i wanted to use a string so that it would be counted as a tag (talking about a place). i also do "dog:whoever" to indicate we talked about some dog or "person:whoever" to indicate we were talking about a person. | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | "person:" is hilarious actually because jojack is the best at it | 13:08 |
| jonathan____ | what do you mean | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | here is what jojack talks about: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/other/people/joseph_jackson.html | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | the joke is that he talks about other people | 13:08 |
| @kanzure | search for "person:" on that page | 13:09 |
| @fenn | i think it would be interesting just to graphviz people -> tag (where people are nodes and tags are nodes, and edges are whether the tag is in any entries for that person) | 13:09 |
| @kanzure | (size is cumulative occurrences in the tag data) | 13:09 |
| @fenn | it should cluster people by interests | 13:09 |
| jonathan____ | oh you mean complains about other people. lol | 13:09 |
| jonathan____ | yes, graphviz is good at that type of thing | 13:10 |
| jonathan____ | now if you were able to do x -> y -> z that would be a crazy graph | 13:10 |
| jonathan____ | but x -> y should be somewhat viewable | 13:11 |
| @kanzure | i don't think clustering is particularly novel or interesting | 13:11 |
| @kanzure | i mean.. i sort of already know what the clusters will end up being, right? | 13:11 |
| jonathan____ | umm not always | 13:11 |
| jonathan____ | machines are of course better than your brain | 13:12 |
| @fenn | yeah but the people in the graph don't know where they are or who else is near them | 13:12 |
| jonathan____ | you could also autolink to other places like linkedin or openwetware | 13:13 |
| jonathan____ | then you'd have a pretty fancy recruiting database to sell | 13:13 |
| @kanzure | i have many other bits of data that i track here, since it's yaml i just add on new data whenever i find it, like new links or profiles or different aliases and emails | 13:13 |
| @kanzure | also phone numbers | 13:13 |
| @kanzure | i wish people would stop naming their kids john http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/johns.txt | 13:14 |
| jonathan____ | the amazing thing is that since I started putting my phone number everywhere as an experiment long ago, i have not received more calls, I have received far fewer | 13:14 |
| @kanzure | yeah, me too | 13:14 |
| @kanzure | nobody fucking calls me ever | 13:14 |
| jonathan____ | in fact people say "is that your mobile" even tho it says Mobile: xxx | 13:14 |
| @kanzure | you would expect the phone number at the bottom of your email would entice more people to call | 13:15 |
| @kanzure | like on the diybio list | 13:15 |
| @kanzure | but no.. just the opposite. | 13:15 |
| jonathan____ | this is not isolated to us.. i had some associates with scummy seo salesmen types who do big conferences, they plaster their contact info everywhere, and they never get any calls.. | 13:15 |
| jonathan____ | these guys advertised themselves as consultants billing $500/hr and yet if you easily found their number and called it, you could talk directly with them. lol ridiculous | 13:16 |
| @fenn | anyway i did something similar and it was interesting, sort of a chronology of the past few years: http://fennetic.net/irc/fun2.png | 13:16 |
| @fenn | er, that is a graphviz of my contact info stuff | 13:17 |
| @kanzure | what does the directionality mean | 13:17 |
| jonathan____ | lol in that pic what is "me" | 13:17 |
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| @fenn | directionality is context | 13:17 |
| jonathan____ | basically if you think about it you guys are just automating that process of "oh you are interested in x too? I know y who is also interested in x!" | 13:18 |
| jonathan____ | "you guys should connect and discuss x together!" | 13:18 |
| @kanzure | actually i did that already | 13:18 |
| @fenn | yes, that is the point | 13:18 |
| @kanzure | i have it look for related tags and then tell me that i am stupid for not telling you about <thing i've forgotten> | 13:18 |
| jonathan____ | well it's automation software to do it as ongoing process | 13:18 |
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| nmz787 | pseudorecursion eh ParahSail1n ? | 13:19 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: i wanted to try automatically-generating emails to send out to different people, based on previous things ew've talked about | 13:19 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: because complaining to my mom about my gels might not be something she wants to hear about, but nate or rob could probably help with that, maybe | 13:19 |
| @kanzure | jonathan____: but it turns out that the emails are long and boring | 13:19 |
| jonathan____ | do tweets and it will be popular I bet | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | offendbot | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | so i was thinking about tDt synthesis | 13:20 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/irc/meetlog/graphs/aaron_swartz.png | 13:20 |
| jonathan____ | fenn you obviously need more "businessmen" cause I only see one bubble for that lol | 13:20 |
| nmz787 | there was an Intel Precision Biology paper on using SERS (surface enhanced raman spectroscopy) to sequence DNA on concentration in and conentration out of a polymerase chamber with DNA template | 13:21 |
| nmz787 | and a rich nucleotide soln flowing through | 13:21 |
| @fenn | jonathan____: what does one do with a businessman | 13:21 |
| jonathan____ | you don't drop the soap | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | you go out "for coffee" | 13:21 |
| @kanzure | and "reach out" | 13:22 |
| nmz787 | and there's a guy locally doing this http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Apertureless_near-field_far-field_CW_two-photon_microscope_for_biological_and_material_imaging_and_spectroscopic_applications.pdf | 13:22 |
| jonathan____ | hahaha "reach out" | 13:22 |
| jonathan____ | omg lol | 13:22 |
| nmz787 | basically using a 32768 khz (or Hz?) crystal/piezo | 13:22 |
| nmz787 | and a cheap CW laser | 13:22 |
| @fenn | maybe i should put it this way, why would i ever want to talk to a businessman | 13:22 |
| @kanzure | to absorb their brain | 13:22 |
| nmz787 | so if i could de-can an audio oscillator crystal | 13:23 |
| jonathan____ | businessmen are like this. you talk a bunch of hype stuff to them, tell them how big the market is and how it will change the world, then spin them around towards the door and say "find some leads!" | 13:23 |
| nmz787 | he has papers published on using laser pointers for crazy-weird optical microscopy | 13:23 |
| nmz787 | (the CW ) | 13:23 |
| @fenn | jonathan____: and then what | 13:23 |
| nmz787 | i think he might be at a conference now or something, cause h hasn't responded to my ast 2 emails | 13:24 |
| nmz787 | last 2* | 13:24 |
| jonathan____ | then you allow them to negotiate for you and take the majority of it and give them a small percentage. easy peasy | 13:24 |
| @kanzure | fenn: and then they get out of your way and provide you with resources to do your job | 13:24 |
| nmz787 | i'm not sure if the sample has to be on the crystal surface | 13:24 |
| jonathan____ | i'm out | 13:25 |
| nmz787 | but if not, then it could be below a microchannel | 13:25 |
| nmz787 | and then we could use tdt and a nano-sieve to just pump in really dilute as hell (1 nucleotide per lot of channel length) | 13:25 |
| @fenn | i think we are confusing "businessman" with "agent". in my mind the agent is supposed to get out of your way and provide resources, whereas the businessman is just in it for himself and using you as a tool to get more power/money for himself | 13:25 |
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| @kanzure | do you believe it is possible for a clever person to be into business? | 13:26 |
| delinquentme | haha | 13:26 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, I think they're the most clever | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | it sounds like your answer is going to be no | 13:27 |
| @fenn | yes, you have to be clever to be successful at deceiving people | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | you don't have to deceive anyone | 13:27 |
| @fenn | show me an honest businessman and i'll convert to the church of the dollar on the spot | 13:27 |
| delinquentme | business makes something profitable :D | 13:27 |
| @fenn | successful honest businessman | 13:27 |
| delinquentme | fenn, me! | 13:27 |
| delinquentme | successfulish | 13:27 |
| @kanzure | what does church of the dollar mean? | 13:28 |
| delinquentme | fenn, in baby blue | 13:28 |
| @fenn | um, i dunno, but it sounded better than the church of mormon | 13:28 |
| @kanzure | you don't have to like money to have it | 13:28 |
| @fenn | i didn't say all rich people were businessmen | 13:28 |
| @kanzure | please list any biases in the form of sentences | 13:29 |
| @fenn | you're a businessman if your only talent is getting other people to do stuff for you and give you money | 13:29 |
| @kanzure | "only talent" | 13:29 |
| @kanzure | what if you're not talented, but you do work anyway? | 13:29 |
| @fenn | then you should be finding a different line of work? | 13:30 |
| @kanzure | maybe we mean different things | 13:30 |
| @kanzure | are you saying that if you're not the top 1% of your field, you shouldn't be doing anything? | 13:31 |
| @fenn | i'm not a fan of competetive ranking | 13:31 |
| @fenn | grading on the curve, whatever | 13:31 |
| @fenn | i honestly wish we had a science of measuring performance | 13:31 |
| @kanzure | i don't think your definition of business is useful, it seems to be broadly applicable to anything that you gain from | 13:32 |
| @kanzure | in other words you are only interested in net no-gain situations or something | 13:32 |
| @kanzure | which i know isn't true | 13:32 |
| @kanzure | i think you might have a lot of biases you're not disclosing here | 13:32 |
| @fenn | true leaders should have some understanding of the field they're working in; if all you know is manipulating people and getting money out of them, i'm not interested in talking to you | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | "all you know" who is this? | 13:33 |
| @fenn | because i'm probably going to be the next person getting manipulated etc | 13:33 |
| ParahSail1n | nmz787, no theres real recursion | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | every time i talk to someone i'm manipulating them | 13:33 |
| @kanzure | this is why steve doesn't | 13:34 |
| @fenn | heh | 13:34 |
| @fenn | yes he's kinda the opposite | 13:34 |
| @kanzure | and then there's other things like the art of good communication being something about thinking about how you are doing that manipulation | 13:34 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, kind of | 13:34 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: hush i'm fixing fenn problems | 13:34 |
| delinquentme | the thing is at the base level you're interacting | 13:34 |
| delinquentme | fundamentally an exchange of information | 13:34 |
| delinquentme | why does psychology work | 13:34 |
| @kanzure | why does what work? | 13:34 |
| @fenn | psychology is a bullshit explanatory pseudoscience | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | do people apply psychology in non clinical situations? | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | fenn, not entirely | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | sure its not physics | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | but theres something to it | 13:35 |
| @kanzure | can you go away | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, sure | 13:35 |
| delinquentme | but look at ideas in the context of communication | 13:36 |
| delinquentme | you want to talk about manipulation... | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | no, i don't want to talk about it | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | i also don't want to talk about psychology | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | or communication | 13:36 |
| delinquentme | idk if you guys want to have a legit chat about it... feel free to | 13:36 |
| @kanzure | please stop :( | 13:36 |
| @fenn | now that i look at it, this graphviz graph is pretty messed up. why is everything smooshed onto the left side of the screen? it hasn't fully relaxed | 13:36 |
| delinquentme | kk | 13:36 |
| @fenn | kanzure is trying to convince me that money is a good thing | 13:37 |
| @kanzure | no | 13:37 |
| @kanzure | try again | 13:37 |
| ParahSail1n | i think you meant mammon not mormon | 13:37 |
| @kanzure | i'm trying to convince you that elitism doesn't work | 13:37 |
| delinquentme | fenn, I dont think this is actually a statement | 13:37 |
| @kanzure | wait, no that's not it either | 13:38 |
| delinquentme | "nuclear energy isnt a good thing" | 13:38 |
| delinquentme | they're all tools | 13:38 |
| @kanzure | i really really want you to go away | 13:38 |
| @kanzure | fenn is going to rip you apart | 13:38 |
| @fenn | rawr | 13:38 |
| @kanzure | and then nothing will be different | 13:38 |
| delinquentme | what? | 13:39 |
| delinquentme | oh is this like a nonsense circle jerk which im not invited to? | 13:39 |
| @fenn | kanzure: "elitism doesn't work", in your opinion, why is that so? | 13:39 |
| delinquentme | are you talking about something of substance or just jibbering? | 13:39 |
| @kanzure | fenn: i retracted my comment | 13:40 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: you go off on a lot of random tangents and it's distracting | 13:40 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you're not invited because you're bad at thinking | 13:40 |
| delinquentme | and now back to psych | 13:40 |
| @kanzure | also bad at reading | 13:40 |
| @fenn | facebook has 1 billion users now because they started off with elitism. meanwhile nobody uses myspace | 13:40 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, no actually i might be good at psychology bc im extracting information from people by using what I've got over them | 13:40 |
| @kanzure | you pay more attention to news sources than you do to me | 13:40 |
| delinquentme | piss people off and throw in logic which they feel the need to correct | 13:41 |
| delinquentme | vioa | 13:41 |
| delinquentme | free information | 13:41 |
| @kanzure | oh brother | 13:41 |
| delinquentme | works like a charm in irc | 13:41 |
| -!- delinquentme was kicked from ##hplusroadmap by kanzure [delinquentme] | 13:41 | |
| ParahSail1n | been waiting for that one | 13:41 |
| @kanzure | not working so much now huh | 13:41 |
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| ParahSail1n | any mechanical engineers in here? | 13:41 |
| * delinquentme fml | 13:41 | |
| delinquentme | you guys are like... | 13:41 |
| delinquentme | kk ima read | 13:42 |
| @fenn | ParahSail1n: just ask your question | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | please read the logs and figure out what we are actually saying to you | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | yeah, don't ask to ask | 13:42 |
| ParahSail1n | preferably good at welding and knowledgeable of refrigeration | 13:42 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you're not saying anything you're jumping around in the manner which you're accusing me of doing | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: i'm not jumping around | 13:42 |
| delinquentme | from saying that I dont read to my thoughts on psychological processes dont mesh with what you two are discussing | 13:42 |
| * ParahSail1n is hiring | 13:42 | |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: i was replying to 13:33 <@fenn> because i'm probably going to be the next person getting manipulated etc | 13:42 |
| delinquentme | which is wildly interesting considering the ad hominem of both you two | 13:42 |
| @fenn | ParahSail1n: what's the salary for refrigerator welders? :P | 13:42 |
| delinquentme | pick out a social situation | 13:42 |
| delinquentme | fucking hell | 13:42 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: you seem to be totally unaware of the actual conversation we were having | 13:43 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: and what's really weird is that the conversation was extremely explicit | 13:43 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, im done w it | 13:43 |
| @fenn | yeah it's pretty impressive, lower signal to noise ratio than gradstudentbot | 13:43 |
| gradstudentbot | God, I'm going to quit. | 13:43 |
| delinquentme | hahah | 13:43 |
| delinquentme | srsly bag of dicks | 13:44 |
| delinquentme | fenn feel free to pick out the lacking statements in my shrinkery | 13:44 |
| @kanzure | no! | 13:44 |
| @kanzure | that's specifically what i wanted him to not do | 13:44 |
| @kanzure | i even /said that/ | 13:44 |
| @fenn | yeah i'm not falling for that | 13:44 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, do you just want to fucking kick me? | 13:44 |
| @kanzure | it's like you don't read what i say to you and this makes me sad :( | 13:44 |
| ParahSail1n | fenn, if that person is you, ill have to continue this at a later time | 13:44 |
| ParahSail1n | have to pick someone up at the airport | 13:45 |
| delinquentme | circular wtf-ing | 13:45 |
| @kanzure | ParahSail1n: just ask your question | 13:45 |
| @kanzure | ParahSail1n: oh | 13:45 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, Im ignoring what you say because youve stated "dont talk psych" | 13:45 |
| delinquentme | then proceed to yourself | 13:45 |
| delinquentme | please explain. | 13:45 |
| ParahSail1n | kanzure, ive got quite a large project to discuss with a potential partner | 13:45 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: it's because i wasn't talking about psychology | 13:45 |
| * delinquentme blinks | 13:46 | |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: and because we have no interest in your platitudes | 13:46 |
| gradstudentbot | The gel is streaking. | 13:46 |
| @fenn | ParahSail1n: i'm probably the wrong guy, as i've never built a refrigerator | 13:46 |
| @kanzure | fenn: don't sell yourself short | 13:46 |
| delinquentme | sooo your attempt to discuss logic is attempting to tag me as not knowing what im talking about? | 13:46 |
| @kanzure | i'm not discussing logic | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | wow | 13:47 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: what if i am right, and that you seriously /did/ misread what i have said? | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | jesus | 13:47 |
| * fenn takes a short break from irc while kanzure and delinquentme duke it out | 13:47 | |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: is it even theoretically possible for you to be wrong | 13:47 |
| ParahSail1n | i can say, that i need someone to make one of these https://www.google.com/patents/EP0603182B1?cl=en&dq=supercool+chiller&hl=en&sa=X&ei=37zhUa-yF4fyqQHV5oCQDw&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA | 13:47 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, fuck yourself | 13:48 |
| delinquentme | seriously I make an attempt to help in an area which I've a bit of practice. And somehow you dig up some merit in saying that all my statements are vacuous | 13:50 |
| @kanzure | i'll only accept specific evidence | 13:51 |
| @kanzure | from the logs where you jumped in | 13:52 |
| delinquentme | listen. if you want input give me a TLDR on the convo | 13:52 |
| delinquentme | I can and want to help | 13:53 |
| delinquentme | excuse my "platitudes" | 13:53 |
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| @kanzure | i don't think you know me. i hate "too long, didn't read". if you didn't read then why are you even complaining about this! | 13:54 |
| delinquentme | you're talking manipulation | 13:55 |
| delinquentme | explicit. psychology. applied. | 13:55 |
| delinquentme | plz esprain how manipulating anyone through XYZ process... isn't psychology | 13:55 |
| @kanzure | 13:33 <@fenn> because i'm probably going to be the next person getting manipulated etc | 13:56 |
| @kanzure | 13:33 <@kanzure> every time i talk to someone i'm manipulating them | 13:56 |
| @kanzure | 13:34 <@kanzure> this is why steve doesn't | 13:56 |
| @kanzure | i was pointing out that his observation wasn't particularly relevant or useful | 13:56 |
| delinquentme | and I'm agreeing with you <@kanzure> every time i talk to someone i'm manipulating them | 13:56 |
| delinquentme | so | 13:56 |
| @kanzure | and therefore isn't a good explanation from him | 13:57 |
| @kanzure | i don't give a fuck that you agree, sorry | 13:57 |
| @kanzure | do you see how i made a statement to show him that his previous wasn't worth considering? | 13:58 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you're pretty pretentious for someone whos not so hot w psychology | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | not much self applied huh? | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | now if you want to talk psychology | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | why dont you start dumping the thoughts going through your head right now | 13:59 |
| delinquentme | plz k thnx | 14:00 |
| @kanzure | what does hot mean? | 14:02 |
| delinquentme | efficacious , ardoit, skilled, capable | 14:02 |
| delinquentme | adroit* | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | so because i don't like something, it means i am not skilled at it? | 14:03 |
| @kanzure | can you please describe how that leap of logic works.. | 14:03 |
| delinquentme | srsly where do you get off w asserting that people have zero capability to participate in a discussion? | 14:05 |
| delinquentme | " What The Fuck Is Wrong With You ? " | 14:05 |
| @kanzure | historical evidence. experience. we've been friends for a really long time. i would be a pretty awful person if i wasn't able to predict altercations like this. | 14:08 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm glad you brought that up, I'm going to do that right now. | 14:08 |
| delinquentme | clearly you averted it | 14:10 |
| @kanzure | yeah, i'm pretty bad at handling you | 14:11 |
| delinquentme | tell me im wrong | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | but at least fenn didn't get stuck in a psychology hate speech loop | 14:11 |
| @kanzure | so.. mission successful. | 14:11 |
| juri_ | i like pi. | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | I truly give a shit about you guys but jesus some of this shit is crazy. Seemingly packaged as an ego fight | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | none of this is about ego | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | juri_: arguably you should consider preferring tau | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | <kanzure> i don't give a fuck that you agree, sorry | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | do you feel macho? | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: that's not a statement of ego | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | delinquentme: i am telling you that i honestly don't care | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | OH REALLLY? | 14:12 |
| delinquentme | REALLY | 14:12 |
| @kanzure | yes. i did not care that you agreed. you could have disagreed too. i still wouldn't have cared. | 14:13 |
| delinquentme | no kanzure that is flaming ego defensive machismo | 14:13 |
| delinquentme | " not care " | 14:13 |
| delinquentme | Sorry such a statement is just evidence as to how little you know. | 14:13 |
| delinquentme | fuck. utterly useless. Lovely little chat we got ourselves into! And a perfectly peachy emotional state | 14:14 |
| juri_ | just remember, we're all on team progress and technology here. | 14:16 |
| @kanzure | i think it's cool that you're reading my messages for once, so you have that going for you. | 14:17 |
| juri_ | when you start to feel sad cause some asshat has you mad, see gitorious make you glad, with the submissions that you had! | 14:17 |
| @kanzure | i also don't think you have any insight into how i feel ("perfectly peachy" indicates that you think i'm feeling poorly) | 14:18 |
| delinquentme | juri_, +1 | 14:21 |
| @kanzure | /win 4 | 14:28 |
| @kanzure | jfoiadjfosa | 14:28 |
| @fenn | i like tau but i think "turn" makes more sense | 14:28 |
| @kanzure | i said consider, not that i insisted. | 14:28 |
| @fenn | but the physicists have to use a greek letter for some reason | 14:29 |
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| juri_ | 15:44 | |
| juri_ | er. ;) | 15:44 |
| @kanzure | someone made gobject bindings for node but they didn't fix the libev/libuv vs. glib event loop issues: https://github.com/creationix/node-gir/issues/7 | 16:00 |
| @kanzure | juri_: are you a gtk/gnome person by any chance | 16:00 |
| @kanzure | wow is gnome code often this poorly formatted? https://git.gnome.org/browse/seed/tree/libseed/seed-engine.c#n266 | 16:17 |
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| juri_ | i'm as far from it as you can get. | 16:28 |
| juri_ | running blackbox as my desktop 'environment', and using midori as a web browser. might have to develop on libwebkitgtk.. | 16:28 |
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| @kanzure | juri_: why do you mention libwebkitgtk? | 16:29 |
| @kanzure | is that a suggestion because you think i haven't looked into it, or because you are using midori and noticing problems? | 16:30 |
| juri_ | its just on my todo list for today. i'm working on a pure html5 based solution for QR code recognition, and need the media streaming operations to cooperate. | 16:36 |
| juri_ | this took at a minimum recompiling that library to support it, and might take some work on the debian package, to move to a newer version. | 16:36 |
| juri_ | i MAY be tracking a bug. i'm still lookign into it. | 16:37 |
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| @kanzure | there's already lots of javascript/qr code stuff. i think opencv even has that junk. but that's overkill. | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | oh you want it from streaming video. | 16:41 |
| @kanzure | hmm | 16:41 |
| juri_ | there is plenty of it. there is no pure javascript implementation of a qr code reader. | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | what? i doubt that. | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | pure js implementation: https://github.com/LazarSoft/jsqrcode | 16:42 |
| juri_ | well, there is a decoder, but not a reader. decoders want pure images, readers seperate QR code from crap-in-background. | 16:42 |
| @kanzure | (it's a port, but that doesn't mean it's not js) | 16:42 |
| juri_ | make me wrong. i'd enjoy it. | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | well, they claim that's a port of whatever zxing is doing, and zxing definitely separates qr codes from background noise. | 16:43 |
| @kanzure | so either they are liars or you just found yourself a library | 16:44 |
| juri_ | well, that just saved me a shitload of work. | 16:44 |
| juri_ | thanks! :) | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | that implementation looks bad, it's not even packaged | 16:44 |
| @kanzure | i suggest using this one https://npmjs.org/package/jsqrcode | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | it should work in a browser even though it was written for node | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | if there is anything in it thta requires node, you can run it through browserify | 16:45 |
| @kanzure | the advantage here is that it is commonjs-compliant and it keeps your js architecture sane | 16:45 |
| juri_ | very nice. | 16:45 |
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| juri_ | wow. you seriously just saved me some time. thanks. i'll have to like, pretend i have time to talk here now. ;) | 16:54 |
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| @fenn | i'd like to request that font size in tag clouds be based on log(frequency), because mine is completely dominated by #hplusroadmap | 17:17 |
| @kanzure | i wonder if parsing all my yaml data takes too long on my monster machine. :ponders: | 17:18 |
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| ParahSail1n | what was delinquent whining about? | 17:38 |
| ParahSail1n | so was that supercooling chiller i linked within anyone's expertise to build? | 17:38 |
| ParahSail1n | i need to cool water to -2 C in liquid state | 17:39 |
| @kanzure | haha last time i fixed yaml syntax errors was 2011-11-23 | 17:45 |
| @kanzure | okay database is being reconstructed | 17:50 |
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| Zhwazi | Does it have to be pure water? You can make salt water that cold. | 18:02 |
| @kanzure | damn. python error 12 minutes in. | 18:02 |
| juri_ | just grabbed a pile of free books off of the side of the road. i was not aware that 'Neuromechanics of human movement" was the same category of book as 'its the great pumpkin, charlie brown'. | 18:04 |
| @kanzure | maybe it's a trap. they knew you would take the books. | 18:05 |
| juri_ | i wonder what sort of psychology experiment that was.. | 18:34 |
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| @kanzure | juri_: much less nefaious than you think. garbage removal. | 18:39 |
| @kanzure | damn, it crashed again. weirdness. | 18:42 |
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| @kanzure | and again. | 19:04 |
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| @kanzure | 4 seconds for yaml to parse. 17 minutes to process. | 19:22 |
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| @kanzure | fenn: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/ben_lipkowitz.txt | 20:13 |
| @kanzure | Juul: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/marc_juul.txt | 20:13 |
| * kanzure scratches his data glands | 20:13 | |
| Juul | kanzure, hah! | 20:13 |
| Juul | what are the sources for all of this? | 20:14 |
| Juul | mailing lists | 20:14 |
| Juul | irc? | 20:14 |
| @kanzure | manual data entry every day for every conversation since 2009 | 20:15 |
| @kanzure | about 14000 people | 20:15 |
| Juul | woooow | 20:15 |
| @bkero | wat | 20:19 |
| @kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/ben_kero.txt | 20:19 |
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| Juul | it's like a public PRISM for kanzure | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | yeah i've had this stalklog for a few years now | 20:22 |
| @kanzure | it's my anti-NSA | 20:22 |
| ParahSail1n | Zhwazi, yes its gotta be pure water | 20:23 |
| ParahSail1n | supercooling is pretty common | 20:23 |
| Juul | 18cats | 20:23 |
| Juul | :) | 20:23 |
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| @kanzure | Juul: open source nsa | 20:25 |
| Juul | that's awesome | 20:26 |
| Juul | i seem to have two files | 20:26 |
| Juul | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/meetlog/people/marc_christoffersen.txt | 20:26 |
| @kanzure | that's because i never knew that | 20:27 |
| Juul | :) | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | gee i wish my system would be able to figure that out | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | maybe by tag profiling | 20:27 |
| @kanzure | tag fingerprinting | 20:28 |
| @fenn | you should also be able to (manually) collapse similar tags, for instance "unity" and "unity3d" probably mean the same thing | 21:22 |
| @fenn | ah namespaces | 21:23 |
| @fenn | i guess it can get confusing, since "processing" means something totally different than "processes" | 21:24 |
| @fenn | maybe you already have this capability | 21:26 |
| @fenn | i should dump this into the meta keywords on my homepage | 21:30 |
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| jonathan_ | hey max | 23:58 |
| jonathan_ | " These findings indicate that extensive genetic engineering of human hematopoiesis can be achieved with lentiviral vectors" | 23:58 |
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| jonathan_ | "Lentiviral Hematopoietic Stem Cell Gene Therapy Benefits Metachromatic Leukodystrophy" Science DOI: 10.1126/science.1233158 | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Sun Jul 14 00:00:25 2013 | ||
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