| --- Log opened Mon Dec 14 00:00:36 2015 | ||
| -!- QuadIngi [~FourFire@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fourfire] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:38 | |
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| kanzure | hmph | 00:41 |
|---|---|---|
| erasmus | they were all way off topic tonight kanzure | 00:42 |
| erasmus | I have no idea how that happened. | 00:42 |
| erasmus | this shit never happens in ##Neurofeedback | 00:43 |
| ebowden | What happens in ##Neurofeedback? | 00:43 |
| erasmus | mostly offtopic stuff | 00:44 |
| ebowden | Why? | 00:44 |
| ebowden | Well, I guess that's the case for a lot of chans. | 00:45 |
| erasmus | cause most ppl cannot afford the hardware or software to train | 00:45 |
| ebowden | So it makes sense. | 00:45 |
| erasmus | but that is changing fast | 00:45 |
| erasmus | openbci will have aboard out for $99 | 00:46 |
| ebowden | Neat. | 00:46 |
| erasmus | which will work with bioera | 00:46 |
| erasmus | and dry sensors are becoming affordable | 00:46 |
| ebowden | I wonder if the effect of neurofeedback would be enhanced with drugs like 7,8-dihydroxyflavone. | 00:47 |
| erasmus | https://github.com/OpenBCI/Ultracortex/tree/master/Mark_3 | 00:47 |
| erasmus | I would just like to get off stims personally | 00:47 |
| erasmus | I'm looking forward to training w/o pastes and gels | 00:49 |
| ebowden | 7,8-dihydroxyflavone is a TrkB agonist, I've not heard of it being a stim. | 01:14 |
| erasmus | I'll stick with amfonelic acid thx | 01:29 |
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| ebowden | wtf | 01:33 |
| ebowden | That's a DRI 150% the potency of dextroamphetamine, it has a massive half life and horrid withdrawal. | 01:34 |
| ebowden | Why on earth would you think that'd be a good idea, yet the neurogenesis enhancing flavonoid is horrible. | 01:35 |
| FourFire | erasmus, I hope they make their 160k stretch goal | 01:46 |
| FourFire | want to experiment with tDCS, but equipment for it is too expensive for trivial hacking | 01:46 |
| rhaps0dy | erasmus: lol | 01:50 |
| rhaps0dy | are you an european exchange programme? | 01:50 |
| ebowden | *horrible? | 01:55 |
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| FourFire | invited user Alycius to this channel. | 02:04 |
| Alcyius | Hello | 02:05 |
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| FourFire | Greetings | 02:13 |
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| fenn | ug so much backlog | 02:41 |
| fenn | ebowden: what were the BDNF drugs you were taking that you believe reduced your need for sleep? | 02:42 |
| ebowden | My need, or need in general? | 02:44 |
| ebowden | Well, it was those and the neurofeedback. Maybe. | 02:48 |
| ebowden | Maybe it was the placebo effect. | 02:48 |
| ebowden | Maybe the drugs only upregulate BDNF in animal models. | 02:48 |
| fenn | ok but what was it | 02:51 |
| ebowden | Berberine, and the much pissier curcumin, it's oral bioavailability enhanced with piperine. | 02:54 |
| ebowden | *its oral | 02:55 |
| fenn | hum ok i don't think curcumin altered my sleep at all | 02:56 |
| fenn | what sort of neurofeedback did you do? | 02:57 |
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| ebowden | Something for concentrating on small objects, I think. | 02:58 |
| ebowden | Fenn, because very little of it gets in your bloodstream. | 02:58 |
| fenn | i used to take piperine but then i decided i would rather have functioning enzymes | 03:00 |
| ebowden | You would still have functioning enzymes, just ever so slightly less of them. | 03:01 |
| fenn | i thought enzyme inactivation (cyp3a4?) was the mechanism by which it increased curcumin bioavailability | 03:02 |
| ebowden | I've heard multiple mechanisms proposed. | 03:03 |
| fenn | a 1999 patent says the mechanism is unknown | 03:03 |
| fenn | piperine may enhance bioavailability of curcumin by 2000% in humans (which is a 20-fold increase, as 100% is just normal absorption),[18] most likely due to inhibition of glucuronidation by the enzyme UDP-glucuronosyltransferase in the liver and small intestine. | 03:04 |
| fenn | Piperine has shown "anti-depression like activity" and cognitive-enhancing effects in rats. | 03:05 |
| ebowden | Not sure if any of the mechanisms proposed have been tested even as of now, say, a cyp3a4 knockout generated and the bioavailability enhancing effects compared between that and wild type. | 03:06 |
| fenn | 5-20 mg/kg for the rat depression study, seems like a very high dose | 03:07 |
| fenn | typical capsules are 10mg so i'd need to take like 50 capsules | 03:08 |
| ebowden | Yup. I just had it for enhancing oral bioavailability. | 03:08 |
| ebowden | Not that. | 03:08 |
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| ebowden | +seen gaydude | 03:09 |
| fenn | apparently there is some formula with some cubic term in it, for scaling up rat doses to human doses | 03:09 |
| ebowden | Oh, derp, wrong chan. | 03:10 |
| ebowden | I just use the FDA conversion factor. | 03:10 |
| fenn | "FDA guideline provide conversion of animal dose to human dose on the basis of body surface area." | 03:10 |
| fenn | who is gaydude? | 03:10 |
| ebowden | I have just as little idea as you. | 03:11 |
| Alcyius | I'd assume a gay male | 03:13 |
| gaydude | mmmm, yes ^^, hello | 03:13 |
| gaydude | i dont know any of you either ... | 03:14 |
| ebowden | He asked me, so I replied. | 03:14 |
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| fenn | i'd assume a troll from reddit | 03:15 |
| gaydude | hahahah, no ... , why you think that? | 03:17 |
| fenn | because you first joined at exactly the same time as atomical | 03:18 |
| fenn | but you haven't said anything of substance | 03:18 |
| gaydude | mmmmmmmm | 03:19 |
| gaydude | i dont tend to speak, just watch | 03:19 |
| ebowden | I mostly think about ears. | 03:24 |
| ebowden | www.atomicpetportraits.com/the-worlds-longest-ears | 03:25 |
| jrayhawk | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21592990 iiiiinteresting | 03:27 |
| jrayhawk | that would explain more of the anti-candidiasis effects of goldenseal | 03:29 |
| ebowden | I take berberine, not sure why I'd take that impure herbal stuff. | 03:30 |
| fenn | lol | 03:30 |
| fenn | can't we all just get along | 03:30 |
| ebowden | I'm perfectly calm. | 03:31 |
| Alcyius | Can't we get irrationally angry at each other /s | 03:31 |
| Alcyius | On a serious note, I do have a question | 03:31 |
| fenn | a lot of people on both sides seem to think herbal medicine and pharmaceutical medicine are mutually exclusive | 03:32 |
| fenn | but i think the science developed to study herbal medicines are what led to pharmaceutical medicine | 03:32 |
| Alcyius | I'm not as knowledgeable about this stuff as I'd like to be, so as an aspiring computer scientist, what stuff would you guys recommend I start looking into in terms of advancing transhumanism | 03:32 |
| jrayhawk | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/proposals/ | 03:32 |
| fenn | alcyius it depends what you mean by transhumanism | 03:33 |
| Alcyius | fenn, I'd agree with you there. My problem is that a lot of people think that herbal medicine is better than modern medicine, and reject any evidence that shows that their favored herbal remedies don't work | 03:33 |
| fenn | step 1) define the problem. step 2) solve the problem. | 03:33 |
| Alcyius | Fair enough | 03:34 |
| fenn | in general i recommend studying technical topics rather than getting lost in identity philosophy | 03:34 |
| Alcyius | Heh | 03:34 |
| Alcyius | One of my world civ professors started getting me in those philosophical conversations | 03:34 |
| Alcyius | I find them a good diversion | 03:35 |
| Alcyius | Plus he buys coffee for me and sometimes pizza so | 03:35 |
| fenn | studying philosophy gives you ammunition to win cocktail party arguments, but if you still die at the end is it worth it? | 03:35 |
| ebowden | Alcyius, he may want to have sex with you. | 03:36 |
| ebowden | I take berberine because it was as effective as metformin in a phase 3 clinical trial for type 2 diabetes, I don't care that it's from plants. | 03:36 |
| Alcyius | fenn, I treat it more as a mental exercise than anything else | 03:36 |
| Alcyius | ebowden, he's married, and I'm not the only one there | 03:36 |
| gaydude | mmm, but dont opose if it goes further i think... hehe | 03:37 |
| fenn | mental exercises have been shown not to increase fluid intelligence (except perhaps n-back but there's only one paper verifying that and others are having trouble replicating results) | 03:37 |
| jrayhawk | (similarly, http://www.nature.com/labinvest/journal/v92/n7/abs/labinvest201275a.html ) | 03:37 |
| ebowden | Alcyius, doesn't exclude the possibility. | 03:37 |
| Alcyius | Fair enough, but he's not my type | 03:37 |
| ebowden | Is he tall? | 03:37 |
| Alcyius | Yes | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | Why? | 03:38 |
| ebowden | How tall? | 03:38 |
| ebowden | I am very gay. | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | taller than me, but only slightly and probably only cuz I use a cane | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | He's also in his late 60s | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | He could be my grandpa | 03:38 |
| ebowden | They're gentler. | 03:38 |
| gaydude | lol | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | *sigh* | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | That does remind me though | 03:38 |
| Alcyius | Has anyone written anything about intersections of transhumanism and hedonism? | 03:39 |
| ebowden | So, 6'1'? 6'3'? | 03:39 |
| Alcyius | probably 6'1" | 03:39 |
| fenn | david pearce wrote a lot of stuff about abolishing suffering and increasing happiness... | 03:39 |
| gaydude | going back to your question, i also think that you should be reading more technical details | 03:39 |
| Alcyius | Yeah probably | 03:39 |
| Alcyius | I need to deal with my depression before I can effectively do that enough though | 03:39 |
| gaydude | u.u | 03:40 |
| fenn | Alcyius: http://hedweb.com | 03:40 |
| Alcyius | Also, while philosophical discussions might not increase intelligence or be effective as a direct means to an end, it does give me insight on how to better defend my position towards laypeople | 03:41 |
| gaydude | mmm, i use to imagine intersections of transhumanism and hedonism when not feeling "ok" | 03:41 |
| ebowden | Alcyius, shame. I like people to be taller than me, but sadly am 6'. | 03:41 |
| Alcyius | I honestly prefer short and I'm kinda sad that I'm 5'11" | 03:42 |
| ebowden | gaydude, are you a top? | 03:42 |
| fenn | alcyius the best thing you could do at the moment is go work for some silicon valley startup and make tons of cash and then use it to fund scientists | 03:42 |
| Alcyius | Course, given the ability to modify my body as I please, I'd end up a lot different than I am currently | 03:42 |
| gaydude | ebowden: i have the same problem, and im 6´ to | 03:42 |
| Alcyius | fenn, I mean, obviously | 03:42 |
| fenn | is that obvious? | 03:42 |
| gaydude | heheheheh no, you? | 03:42 |
| Alcyius | Yeah kinda | 03:42 |
| Alcyius | Tbh, that is the current goal | 03:42 |
| ebowden | Bottom. | 03:43 |
| Alcyius | Make a lot of money, invest it to reach FI/RE, then pursue research at a university/make donations for scientists/lobby in favor of transhumanist causes | 03:43 |
| gaydude | almost .. | 03:43 |
| fenn | also by "scientists" i am definitely definitely not referring to any "AI safety" bullshit | 03:43 |
| fenn | what is FI/RE? | 03:44 |
| Alcyius | Financial Independence/Retire Early | 03:44 |
| Alcyius | www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence | 03:44 |
| ebowden | gaydude, what do you mean by "almost"? | 03:44 |
| gaydude | mmmm, not sure | 03:45 |
| gaydude | Alcyius, whats the first modification you want? | 03:47 |
| Alcyius | Tough call | 03:48 |
| Alcyius | I'd really like eyes | 03:48 |
| Alcyius | But, on the other hand, I'm not a big fan of the sex layout of my current body | 03:48 |
| Alcyius | I mean, I don't mind, but it could be more enjoyable | 03:48 |
| Alcyius | Does a vasectomy count as a modification? | 03:48 |
| Alcyius | (To be perfectly honest, I'm looking at an RFID implant currently) | 03:49 |
| fenn | why do you want an RFID implant? | 03:49 |
| Alcyius | fenn, convenience and personal intereste | 03:49 |
| fenn | why not just get an RFID ring? | 03:49 |
| fenn | or bracelet or whatever | 03:50 |
| Alcyius | Because I lose jewelry and such with incredible frequency | 03:50 |
| Alcyius | Especially my glasses | 03:50 |
| Alcyius | can't lose an RFID implant | 03:50 |
| gaydude | i also want a RFID | 03:51 |
| fenn | it turns out fitbit can be used to do bluetooth identification i.e. unlocking an android phone | 03:51 |
| gaydude | mmmmm, you have to start somewhere | 03:51 |
| Alcyius | Interesting | 03:51 |
| Alcyius | I'm also interested in a magnet implant | 03:51 |
| fenn | it clips on with a metal spring, i keep it on my pocket next to my pocket knife | 03:52 |
| Alcyius | But my current plans for modifying my body are a tattoo, an RFID implant, and a vasectomy, not necessarily in that order | 03:52 |
| gaydude | about magnets, cant they go out in strong magnetic fields? xD | 03:52 |
| Alcyius | To be honest, I'm probably not gonna get a magnet because I do too much work building computers | 03:53 |
| Alcyius | And I don't want to take that risk | 03:53 |
| fenn | it takes a large number of cycles in a very strong field to demagnetize a permanent magnet, so you'd have to be near a coil with a flux concentrator and hold your hand over it, which would probably be quite painful | 03:53 |
| fenn | alcyius i thought the primary use case for the magnet implant was to do electronics troubleshooting | 03:54 |
| Alcyius | fenn, isn't there an issue with becoming desensitized to the magnet's movement? | 03:54 |
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| Alcyius | fenn, I'm not entirely sure, I haven't read up on it in a while | 03:54 |
| Alcyius | It might be, but on the other hand, I don't want to ruin equipment worth $100s | 03:54 |
| Alcyius | Unless I get to where I can afford that | 03:55 |
| fenn | well you can feel wires with current flowing in them and hard drive heads moving | 03:55 |
| Alcyius | Oh yeah definitely, I've read testimonies | 03:56 |
| fenn | magnet implants are so small it would be impossible to mess up a hard disk with one, even if you touched it while it was operating | 03:56 |
| Alcyius | what about RAM and processors though | 03:56 |
| fenn | no | 03:57 |
| Alcyius | Oh ok | 03:57 |
| Alcyius | In that case I only have to worry about MRIs | 03:57 |
| fenn | the only thing that might be affected is magnetic credit card strips | 03:57 |
| Alcyius | Which, depending on my condition, may or may not be in my future | 03:58 |
| fenn | you don't have a debit card? | 03:58 |
| Alcyius | I meant MRIs | 03:58 |
| fenn | oh | 03:58 |
| Alcyius | I have a debit card yes | 03:58 |
| Alcyius | No I have Visual Snow accompanied by severe cluster/pressure band headaches | 03:59 |
| Alcyius | Aka, my vision looks like it's through a TV screen with a bad connector | 03:59 |
| fenn | migraine with aura | 04:00 |
| gaydude | hahaha | 04:00 |
| fenn | yes it's so funny | 04:00 |
| Alcyius | anyways, I have an exam to get ready for | 04:01 |
| fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aura_(symptom) | 04:01 |
| Alcyius | fenn, my condition is distinct from migraines with auras. It is a persistent, all-encompassing visual disturbance that's closer to a haze of static than an aura, and the headaches are not migraines, but are instead cluster headaches or pressure band headaches | 04:08 |
| Alcyius | http://eyeonvision.org/visual-snow.html | 04:08 |
| Alcyius | anyways, I have to go. Wish me luck. | 04:09 |
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| fenn | http://selfhacked.com/2013/11/14/my-review-of-lllt/ near infrared laser therapy increases reactive oxygen species and has an anti-inflammatory effect by hormesis | 04:31 |
| ebowden | How did he measure this? Was it blinded? | 04:32 |
| fenn | honestly i'm skeptical of his personal experiments but there are a lot of links to scientific journal papers | 04:33 |
| fenn | if i'm reading this right it seems like it's a technological substitute for exercise | 04:33 |
| fenn | he says methylene blue does the same thing | 04:34 |
| fenn | if this cytochrome-pumping ROS generating effect of infrared is true, it would break down some safety distinctions between infrared and ionizing radiation | 04:38 |
| fenn | hum maybe methylene blue is just a mitochondrial antioxidant, i don't see the evidence for hormesis | 04:41 |
| fenn | memory enhancement in mice injected with 1mg/kg methylene blue | 04:43 |
| fenn | review article of memory enhancement and neuroprotective effects of methylene blue http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3265679/ | 04:44 |
| fenn | his recommended dose is 60 micrograms of methylene blue | 04:51 |
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| fenn | best effects at 15-30 micrograms methylene blue reported by multiple people | 05:03 |
| fenn | "I felt more driven to get things done, more focused and more irritable / less patient with people and less interested in how they were going to feel if I said certain things" | 05:04 |
| fenn | there was some muttering about it being an MAOI | 05:10 |
| fenn | insignificant MAOI effect in the sub-milligram dose range | 05:20 |
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| Diablo-D3 | so what doe it do? | 05:38 |
| fenn | mitochrondrial antioxidant, and/or mito-hormesis by way of reactive oxygen species production, or something else entirely | 05:48 |
| fenn | "more driven and more irritable and memory consolidation" sure sounds like increase dopamine though (effect of MAOI) | 05:49 |
| Diablo-D3 | maybe I should look into it >_. | 06:15 |
| Diablo-D3 | >_> | 06:15 |
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| Alcyius | Hello | 06:41 |
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| Alcyius | Finished with my exam | 06:42 |
| Alcyius | can't wait for 11, want me some chipotle | 06:44 |
| Alcyius | Shame they refuse to use GMOs, but maybe with the whole E. Coli/Norovirus deal they'll move. Or just require their farmers to implement stricter hygiene requirements | 06:45 |
| Alcyius | Ok that's kinda weird, periodically freenode keeps giving me a huge list of everyone in the channel | 06:46 |
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| JayDugger | Good morning. | 07:05 |
| Alcyius | Morning | 07:05 |
| Alcyius | every 4 minutes....that's weird | 07:05 |
| JayDugger | Thank you for the links, fenn. | 07:11 |
| bjonnh | that's us-centric | 07:15 |
| JayDugger | ? | 07:16 |
| Alcyius | What's us-centric? | 07:16 |
| maaku_ | Alcyius: you're young, in college I take it? | 07:23 |
| Alcyius | Yeah | 07:23 |
| maaku_ | studying computer science? | 07:23 |
| Alcyius | I start my first major courses next semester | 07:23 |
| Alcyius | Right now the extent of my knowledge is some linux and how to build computers, but I'm a fast learner | 07:24 |
| JayDugger | Thought so, fenn. LLLT similar to, but not same as, one of Dave Asprey's of gadgets. | 07:24 |
| maaku_ | well make shittons of money and reach FI is generally the approach for someone with such leanings | 07:24 |
| Alcyius | Yeah that's the plan | 07:24 |
| Alcyius | I've seen what bad financial planning does to people | 07:25 |
| JayDugger | Reach FI with a job you like, if possible. | 07:25 |
| Alcyius | My dad got laid off and after drug abuse and stuff he killed himself | 07:25 |
| Alcyius | So yeah | 07:25 |
| maaku_ | my recommended strategy: learn as much as you can in college, study abroad, and focus on -building things- , something you'll do outside of class | 07:25 |
| JayDugger | My sympathies for your loss. | 07:25 |
| Alcyius | Eh it was years ago | 07:25 |
| maaku_ | also I'm sorry for your loss | 07:25 |
| Alcyius | The insane therapist who tried to brainwash me into evangelical christianity did more harm than the actual death | 07:26 |
| Alcyius | But thank you | 07:26 |
| kanzure | Alcyius: http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transhumanism | 07:26 |
| maaku_ | pick a field that intersects your interests and is hot, enter startup land with goal of FI by 5 years via exit, if 5-8 years out that's not looking possible, switch to highpaying big business (google, facebook, etc.) with >$200k salary, live ina a shoebox and FI early | 07:27 |
| maaku_ | also, buy bitcoins :) | 07:27 |
| Alcyius | Also, may/may not be relevant, but I do have about 3 months of experience in mass spectrometry, though that was really a crash course | 07:28 |
| maaku_ | I really wish there was a company I could say "go work there!" but sadly there isn't anything like that out there yet... | 07:28 |
| Alcyius | Might be able to leverage that, but I learned that I hate it | 07:28 |
| maaku_ | also avoid philosophy | 07:28 |
| JayDugger | Failing start-up land, live below your means, stay out of debt, invest the difference, and wait. | 07:28 |
| Alcyius | maaku_: eh, I have connections I can leverage for job opportunities, so I'm not TOO worried | 07:28 |
| kanzure | waiting is overrated | 07:28 |
| JayDugger | And yes, buy bitcoins. :) | 07:28 |
| JayDugger | Very overrated, but it works. | 07:28 |
| Alcyius | My biggest issue now is overcoming my crippling depression to do well in my classes | 07:28 |
| kanzure | have you tried lobotomy? | 07:29 |
| maaku_ | Alcyius: I mean there really isn't any company out there working on the transhumanist vision directly | 07:29 |
| Alcyius | I heard that there's a lot of issues converting bitcoins back to USD | 07:29 |
| Alcyius | maaku_: I figured | 07:29 |
| JayDugger | I think a lobotomy would make waiting easier. | 07:29 |
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| Alcyius | Yes, but a lobotomy would kill my ability to DO stuff | 07:29 |
| Alcyius | So I'm looking into more therapy/psychiatric medications | 07:30 |
| Alcyius | http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?id=2071 | 07:30 |
| Alcyius | Heh | 07:30 |
| JayDugger | I hope you find an effective treatment, but I know very little about it. | 07:31 |
| Alcyius | I think I need to look outside SSRIs | 07:32 |
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| bjonnh | http://www.sciencealert.com/us-town-rejects-solar-farm-amid-worries-it-would-suck-up-all-the-energy-from-the-sun?perpetual=yes&limitstart=1 | 07:32 |
| Alcyius | The ones I've tried just made me more depressed | 07:32 |
| Alcyius | bjonnh: I saw that earlier today | 07:32 |
| maaku_ | Alcyius: not really (re: bitcoin/usd). not unless you are trying to convert $100m or something like that | 07:32 |
| Alcyius | one of our old family friends recommended day trading, but I'm kinda iffy | 07:33 |
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| Alcyius | I like a good diversified stock portfolio with stable long-term growth | 07:33 |
| bjonnh | what worries me is that nobody was able to explain to them? | 07:33 |
| Alcyius | bjonnh: people can explain all they want | 07:33 |
| Alcyius | These are people who DON'T want to listen | 07:33 |
| bjonnh | may be | 07:34 |
| Alcyius | "I've decided to associate all change with social decay" | 07:34 |
| bjonnh | well it is at least as dumb as accepting any change because progress | 07:35 |
| Alcyius | I plan on being a self-aware old man | 07:35 |
| Alcyius | well | 07:35 |
| Alcyius | hopefully not an old man but that's another topic of discussion altogether | 07:35 |
| bjonnh | self-aware? | 07:36 |
| Alcyius | older people are likely to identify all change with social decay, ie. "Kids these days syndrome" | 07:36 |
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| bjonnh | so making hypothesis that there could be social decay | 07:37 |
| bjonnh | how would it be identified then? | 07:37 |
| Alcyius | That's an interesting question | 07:38 |
| Alcyius | More on the side of philosophy | 07:38 |
| Alcyius | but if you were aiming to identify social decay, you need to establish a reference point | 07:38 |
| maaku_ | Alcyius: when you're older you'll understand | 07:38 |
| Alcyius | pffft | 07:38 |
| bjonnh | I think many old people identify correctly social decay. It is decay of their social system. | 07:39 |
| bjonnh | doesn't mean that something else was not growing at the same time | 07:39 |
| Alcyius | Yeah, but they also have flawed memories | 07:39 |
| bjonnh | and youngs lack experience | 07:40 |
| Alcyius | And idealize a version of the past that never really existed | 07:40 |
| bjonnh | that's just two different biased ways to look at life :p | 07:40 |
| kanzure | when did this channel get so grumpy | 07:41 |
| kanzure | who do i need to ban | 07:41 |
| bjonnh | who is grumpy? | 07:41 |
| Alcyius | Now now | 07:41 |
| Alcyius | Let's just take a moment | 07:41 |
| Alcyius | And get irrationally angry at each other | 07:41 |
| Alcyius | Like adults | 07:41 |
| kanzure | what does that have to do with anything? huh? | 07:42 |
| Alcyius | Idk | 07:42 |
| Alcyius | also philosophical discussions about transhumanism do have value | 08:21 |
| Alcyius | they help you figure out how to better defend it to laypeople | 08:21 |
| Alcyius | And while you could just wait for people who are against it to die off | 08:21 |
| Alcyius | That's a long haul | 08:21 |
| maaku_ | Alcyius: that has no perceived value here | 08:23 |
| maaku_ | don't ask permission or bother explaining yourself. just do. | 08:23 |
| Alcyius | improving popular opinion on transhumanism equates to more funding and less hostility towards research | 08:23 |
| kanzure | that's just false | 08:23 |
| maaku_ | only when you're going about it the wrong way | 08:23 |
| kanzure | "raise awareness" | 08:24 |
| kanzure | no amount of "awareness" is going to fix your inability to execute | 08:24 |
| kanzure | *raised awareness | 08:24 |
| AdrianG | awareness is cheap. | 08:27 |
| AdrianG | just develop solutions and sell them. | 08:27 |
| AdrianG | there is a billion people waiting for solutions they will pay for. | 08:28 |
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| bjonnh | Alcyius: the philosophy here is JFDI. | 09:19 |
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| kanzure | "Many lab tests - though not all - are effectively commoditized. There is little difference in quality, and the requisite supplies are widely available at low costs. X-rays have been used for medical purposes for literally over 100 years, and it's not very difficult to train someone to take an x-ray properly using modern equipment. (Actually interpreting the results of a test is a different matter). For tests which fall under these ... | 10:06 |
| kanzure | ... categories, it will always be more expensive to obtain them in the US than in India, because the cost-of-living in the US is much higher, and paying people to actually perform the tests dominates the costs of the test itself." | 10:06 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10731415 | 10:06 |
| yoleaux | My adventures in medical tourism | Hacker News | 10:06 |
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| kanzure | "SceneNet: Understanding Real World Indoor Scenes With Synthetic Data" http://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.07041v1.pdf | 10:13 |
| Jawmare | kanzure, the rigorous QC requirement for lab test makes it expensive | 10:15 |
| Jawmare | anyone can operate a HPLC machine, but to make sure that the data is 99% accurate... | 10:15 |
| kanzure | yes i'm sure there are also regulatory costs | 10:18 |
| TMA | in the czech republic the equipment costs and regulatory costs dominate, not the personal costs; the personal costs are almost negligible in comparison | 10:24 |
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| vortus | Well I mean, given enough time and a bit of know how you could put together your own lab http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Hitachi-L-7400-UV-Detector-HPLC-System-/271889055444?hash=item3f4dd9bed4:g:2gsAAOSw~OdVbiVG | 10:29 |
| vortus | There are also lots of other means to determine purity than an HPLC system, but the accuracy is lack luster. | 10:30 |
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| bjonnh | Jawmare: also the right technique must be used… | 10:36 |
| bjonnh | because HPLC is not always the best choice for purity | 10:36 |
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| docl | Alcyius: mass spectrometry stuff could have important applications in self-replicating / semi-replicating robotic systems. | 11:09 |
| docl | fenn was talking about that in http://gnusha.org/logs/2008-03-28.log | 11:09 |
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| drethelin | sup bros | 11:52 |
| eudoxia | hello | 11:52 |
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| AdrianG | man | 12:51 |
| AdrianG | is all this dust and detritus? | 12:53 |
| AdrianG | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/proposals/ | 12:53 |
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| kanzure | it's a wiki, edit the page dude. | 13:06 |
| kanzure | here's a bunch of projects http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/projects | 13:06 |
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| FourFire | Hey kanzure, are you around? | 13:58 |
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| FourFire | nevermind, I lost my train of thought :/ | 14:36 |
| xentrac | kanzure recommends amphetamine for that | 14:38 |
| rhaps0dy | Whaat. | 14:41 |
| fenn | delayed release amphetamine | 14:43 |
| fenn | "XR" | 14:43 |
| rhaps0dy | I mean, you should just have posted your train of thought. | 14:44 |
| fenn | yeah IRC is a variable-latency medium | 14:44 |
| fenn | don't ask to ask | 14:44 |
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| xentrac | fenn: did you see my note the other night about topology optimization and negative stiffness? | 14:48 |
| fenn | uh probably not | 14:48 |
| xentrac | well, if giant-stiffness metamaterials can in fact be constructed using negative-stiffness kinematics, then topology optimization might discover this | 14:49 |
| xentrac | especially since compliance (1/stiffness) is the objective function that people most commonly optimize in topopt | 14:50 |
| fenn | i doubt there's a direct path that leads through this wacky mechanism with a linear optimizer | 14:50 |
| xentrac | this doesn't seem to have happened, which might be because (a) existing topopt systems use a search strategy that's too lame to find it, (b) because it isn't in fact possible despite what I think, or (c) some other reason | 14:50 |
| fenn | (a) | 14:51 |
| xentrac | forgive me for going all Yudkowsky here, but I'd say this is a certain amount of evidence in favor of both (a) and (b) | 14:52 |
| fenn | it doesn't find preloading either, and that definitely works | 14:52 |
| xentrac | those two things are not unrelated actually | 14:52 |
| fenn | there's just no representation for springs under tension in the model they are using | 14:53 |
| xentrac | well, there is; it just isn't part of their solution space | 14:54 |
| xentrac | the two things are not unrelated because no construct has negative stiffness everywhere; that would violate conservation of energy | 14:54 |
| xentrac | only over a certain range of deformations can you have negative stiffness | 14:54 |
| fenn | what about unstable near-degenerate matter | 14:55 |
| fenn | touch it and it coalesces into neutronium | 14:55 |
| xentrac | sounds tasty | 14:55 |
| xentrac | anyway, that might be an adequate explanation by itself for why those solutions haven't been found via topopt | 14:57 |
| fenn | or those closed cell foams containing vacuum | 14:57 |
| xentrac | one of the most studied negative-stiffness configurations is a "holey sheet" | 14:58 |
| xentrac | an elastomeric plate with a square grid of round holes in it | 14:58 |
| fenn | that doesn't seem like it would have negative stiffness | 14:58 |
| rhaps0dy | xentrac: awesome name ^^ | 14:58 |
| xentrac | .g negative stiffness holey sheet | 14:59 |
| yoleaux | https://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/scripties/BachBeentjes.pdf | 14:59 |
| xentrac | in that case the foam is just open on the sides instead of being full of vacuum | 14:59 |
| fenn | oh because one side moves up when you push the other sie down? | 14:59 |
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| fenn | this still doesn't seem like negative stiffness | 15:00 |
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| fenn | "the applied compression is now larger than the critical displacement and the sheet has buckled, resulting in large displacements" | 15:01 |
| xentrac | it turns out to have both a negative-stiffness region and a Poisson anomaly | 15:01 |
| fenn | so i guess according to this definition a simple cylindrical tube is a negative stiffness stucture when compressed axially | 15:01 |
| xentrac | yes, buckling beams are a very common way to get negative stiffness | 15:02 |
| fenn | their constant capitalization of Holey Sheet is distracting... | 15:03 |
| xentrac | yes, it seems like a particularly non-proper-noun sort of term, doesn't it? | 15:04 |
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| fenn | fig 1.2 is sufficient to explain this entire paper | 15:05 |
| xentrac | well, you can't really deduce the negative-stiffness region in fig. 1.3 from fig. 1.2 | 15:06 |
| fenn | http://fennetic.net/irc/holey_sheet_compression_negative_stiffness.png | 15:07 |
| xentrac | yes, I know which fig. 1.2 you mean ;) | 15:08 |
| fenn | well others might be reading this and it would be dumb to download a 16MB paper just for this image | 15:08 |
| xentrac | oh, okay | 15:09 |
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| FourFire | so, I'm going to be staying within drunken crawling distance* of this event I'm attending in germany during the weekend | 15:42 |
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| AdrianG | kanzure: you are missing anything nuclear related on your page. idk why. | 16:40 |
| AdrianG | regulations? | 16:40 |
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| nmz787_i | AdrianG: certainly not regulation related | 16:53 |
| nmz787_i | AdrianG: but what would your suggested additions be? | 16:54 |
| nmz787_i | aren't there outer-space type examples (dyson sphere stuff, etc)? | 16:54 |
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| xentrac | kanzure: what do you think of Martin Bogomolni? | 17:15 |
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| erasmus | http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-28041743?mc_cid=05a117aea0&mc_eid=308670b4dd | 17:37 |
| xentrac | have any of you looked at Jacques Mattheij's windmill design? he wrote a parametric CAD system and built his own CNC plasma cutting system as part of the project, then open sourced it all | 17:40 |
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| AdrianG | nmz787: laser isotope enrichment | 18:15 |
| AdrianG | but im afraid that instead of regulations, that would land you in jail (at best) | 18:15 |
| xentrac | maybe that's why? | 18:17 |
| AdrianG | well, on paper it will be some kind of regulations they will cite | 18:24 |
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| xentrac | maybe if you're worried that talking about this will "land you in jail (at best)" then you shouldn't talk about it | 18:50 |
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| AdrianG | talking about things isnt illegal | 19:16 |
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| juri_ | xentrac: another parametric cad system? | 19:30 |
| * juri_ is designing motor mounts for here CNC/3d printer/pen plotter/laser cutter/highres camera/... in her fork of ImplicitCAD. | 19:31 | |
| kanzure | xentrac: hard to say... i know a thing or two, but they are strange and hard to explain why i know those things. | 19:35 |
| kanzure | didn't know about jacquesm's cad software. | 19:35 |
| kanzure | er, my other message was re: martin | 19:36 |
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| xentrac | heh\ | 20:01 |
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| xentrac | juri_: it looks mostly like a bunch of PHP scripts that output G-code and do some visualizations in GD | 20:04 |
| xentrac | this kind of thing: | 20:04 |
| xentrac | # step 'inwards' at edge of slot | 20:04 |
| xentrac | $instep = $diameter / 100; | 20:04 |
| xentrac | # step inwards at the 3-4 and 5-6 edges | 20:04 |
| xentrac | $instep2 = $diameter / 60; | 20:04 |
| xentrac | $filletsize = $diameter / 100; | 20:04 |
| xentrac | he also wrote an interactive Python thing for designing windmill blade profiles | 20:07 |
| AdrianG | are there 3D scanners btw? | 20:08 |
| AdrianG | 3d printers would be a lot more useful if you can 3D scan. I've got like a million things i want to 3D scan. | 20:08 |
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| xentrac | yes | 20:12 |
| xentrac | structured light, photogrammetry, cyberware laser scanners, structure from motion, and touch-probe 3D scanners | 20:12 |
| xentrac | also more specialized systems like holographic and LIDAR systems | 20:13 |
| xentrac | maybe http://reprap.org/wiki/3D_scanning is a good place to start | 20:14 |
| xentrac | the interactive Python thing is too janky for me to get it running right now, which is a shame; it looks like it might have interesting insights into his thought processes | 20:14 |
| xentrac | kanzure: most things that can be known about Martin are strange :) | 20:15 |
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| kanzure | /win 3 | 20:54 |
| kanzure | feoifqijeroq | 20:54 |
| justanotheruser | more like /lose 3 | 20:57 |
| justanotheruser | heyooo | 20:57 |
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| kanzure | "Estimating the reproducibility of psychological science" http://www.sciencemag.org/content/349/6251/aac4716 | 21:08 |
| kanzure | "Mapping tree density at a global scale" http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v525/n7568/full/nature14967.html | 21:08 |
| kanzure | "Shaping the oral microbiota through intimate kissing" http://microbiomejournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/2049-2618-2-41 | 21:11 |
| kanzure | "CRISPR/Cas9-mediated gene editing in human tripronuclear zygotes" http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs13238-015-0153-5 | 21:11 |
| kanzure | "The genome of cultivated sweet potato contains Agrobacterium T-DNAs with expressed genes: An example of a naturally transgenic food crop" http://www.pnas.org/content/112/18/5844 | 21:11 |
| kanzure | "An investigation of the false discovery rate and the misinterpretation of p-values" http://rsos.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/1/3/140216 | 21:18 |
| erasmus | I like kissing | 21:19 |
| erasmus | :X | 21:19 |
| kanzure | "Sizing ocean giants: patterns of intraspecific size variation in marine megafauna" https://peerj.com/articles/715/ | 21:22 |
| kanzure | "The Oligopoly of Academic Publishers in the Digital Era" http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0127502 | 21:37 |
| kanzure | dunno what is going on here "Continuous liquid interface production of 3D objects" http://www.sciencemag.org/content/347/6228/1349 | 21:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | WHAT ARE WE DOING | 21:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | er sorry caps | 21:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | why do keyboards even HAVE capslock >_> | 21:38 |
| kanzure | capslock is for resisting against the downcase apocalypse | 21:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | YES, WE SHALL NOW ALL SPEAK LIKE THIS | 21:39 |
| Diablo-D3 | LOOK AT ME, I SPEAK IN A LOUD VOICE. ALSO, MY VOICE IS DEEPER FOR SOME REASON. | 21:40 |
| justanotheruser | ɪɴᴅᴇᴇᴅ | 21:41 |
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| bjonnh | Diablo-D3: because some DBs were coded in uppercase only | 22:16 |
| bjonnh | for efficiency reasons and readability | 22:16 |
| bjonnh | also because it is easier when you type an uppercase title | 22:16 |
| bjonnh | which was common on typewriters and early word processors | 22:16 |
| justanotheruser | I must be daft. Is this a joke? | 22:16 |
| justanotheruser | How does uppercase only increase efficiency | 22:16 |
| Diablo-D3 | justanotheruser is death. | 22:16 |
| bjonnh | justanotheruser: upper or lower | 22:17 |
| bjonnh | whatever | 22:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: and its been a LOOOOONG time since all caps was a thing in any sort of coding | 22:17 |
| bjonnh | sure | 22:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, I may in fact be younger than that trend | 22:17 |
| bjonnh | but why are the keys in this order? | 22:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | and Im 32. | 22:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | I think you misunderstood | 22:17 |
| justanotheruser | bjonnh: because they were optimized for typing speed | 22:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | why on a modern keyboard are we keeping capslock | 22:17 |
| bjonnh | justanotheruser: optimized for typing speed on mechanical typewriters | 22:17 |
| Diablo-D3 | but getting rid of _useful_ shit like that 6 key block above the cursor keys | 22:17 |
| justanotheruser | Diablo-D3: you mean left-upper-control? | 22:18 |
| bjonnh | justanotheruser: because it jammed the arms together if you were typing some characters together | 22:18 |
| justanotheruser | bjonnh: no, you're thinking of qwerty | 22:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | justanotheruser: meh, I know people who swap it with esc | 22:18 |
| bjonnh | yes | 22:18 |
| bjonnh | and he was asking why do we keep old stuff | 22:18 |
| bjonnh | like capslock… | 22:18 |
| bjonnh | history | 22:18 |
| justanotheruser | oh. Only lame people use qwerty | 22:18 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: no, I was asking why not get rid of it instead of getting rid of keys _I want to use_ | 22:18 |
| bjonnh | oh | 22:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, my favorite keyboard? has _exactly_ the keys I want | 22:19 |
| bjonnh | sorry | 22:19 |
| bjonnh | what is your favorite keyboard? | 22:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | a tenkeyless made with plate mounted cherry mx reds | 22:19 |
| justanotheruser | Diablo-D3: http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/ | 22:19 |
| bjonnh | actually my capslock is mapped to ctrl | 22:19 |
| bjonnh | and ctrl to compose | 22:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | gets rid of the numpad, keeps the cursor keys and the pgup/dn/home/end/ins/del block | 22:19 |
| Diablo-D3 | and has no fucking media keys | 22:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no fn key | 22:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | and no other stupid goddamned shit | 22:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: and yeah, a lot of people do that | 22:20 |
| Diablo-D3 | emacs people remap control to capslock habitually | 22:20 |
| justanotheruser | what I would really like is custom printed key stencils so I can paint the keys black, then paint the proper key on using the stencil | 22:20 |
| bjonnh | well I'm an "emacs people" | 22:20 |
| bjonnh | so it is not surprising | 22:20 |
| bjonnh | and I'm using bepo (kind of dvorak for french) | 22:21 |
| bjonnh | but I can swing between qwerty, azerty and bepo | 22:21 |
| bjonnh | when I use other people computers | 22:21 |
| bjonnh | justanotheruser: I tried that with different kind of paints, but none stayed | 22:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | so wait | 22:22 |
| Diablo-D3 | why the fuck would you need dvorak for any language? | 22:22 |
| bjonnh | because dvorak is optimized for typing speed | 22:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | I thought the entire point was an optimized layout that works well for all western languages? | 22:23 |
| bjonnh | and the most used letters are different in all languages | 22:23 |
| bjonnh | nope french has a lot of accents for example | 22:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | huh | 22:23 |
| justanotheruser | http://luke.dashjr.org/education/tonal/keyboard/dvorak-tonal.png | 22:23 |
| bjonnh | but there are other differences | 22:23 |
| Diablo-D3 | justanotheruser: dont link to lukejr's website >_> | 22:23 |
| justanotheruser | why not? | 22:23 |
| justanotheruser | he has some interesting stuff | 22:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | because hes an annoying trolllllllll | 22:24 |
| bjonnh | Diablo-D3: why? | 22:24 |
| bjonnh | oh | 22:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | people call me a troll? no. no no no, he has me waaay beat | 22:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | I troll when an opportunity arrises, someone superglued his troll switch in the on position | 22:24 |
| bjonnh | also it seems that dvorak may not be optimal in term of speed | 22:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: it depends | 22:24 |
| bjonnh | that's what wikipedia page says | 22:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | like | 22:24 |
| Diablo-D3 | I have too much muscle memory as qwerty | 22:24 |
| justanotheruser | bjonnh: there are some close layouts that beat dvorak | 22:25 |
| bjonnh | bepo is really recent and was really optimized for that | 22:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | it'd take me another 20 years of nothing but dvorak to catch up | 22:25 |
| justanotheruser | but its just barely | 22:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | _and also_ | 22:25 |
| bjonnh | also works really well for english | 22:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | I like to think before I type | 22:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | I type like a typical perlist | 22:25 |
| bjonnh | I'm typing mostly english now, and my keyboards have the middle row erased ;) | 22:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | plus, plus | 22:25 |
| justanotheruser | you wore off the color? | 22:25 |
| bjonnh | yep | 22:25 |
| Diablo-D3 | getting dvorak consistently | 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | just wont happen | 22:26 |
| justanotheruser | I had dvorak stickers, the homerow stickers left first | 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | okay so | 22:26 |
| justanotheruser | now all I have left are the very outside stickers | 22:26 |
| bjonnh | I stopped writing on keyboards or stickers | 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | I learned to type at a very young age | 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | how do you learn to type by looking at the keyboard? | 22:26 |
| bjonnh | yep | 22:26 |
| bjonnh | I just kept the layout in front of me on a sheet of paper | 22:26 |
| Diablo-D3 | like, literally, I _know_ when Ive pressed the wrong key | 22:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | I can feel it | 22:27 |
| bjonnh | took me a couple of weeks to get to 3/4 of my azerty speed | 22:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | its why I hate typing on foreign keyboards | 22:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | the feel is all wrong | 22:27 |
| bjonnh | took a long time to get beyond 100% though | 22:27 |
| * Diablo-D3 feels like hes the only one here who gets that | 22:27 | |
| bjonnh | and like 5 years after, I sometimes forget where a specific key is | 22:27 |
| Diablo-D3 | also, btw, whats the point of typing faster than 120wpm? | 22:28 |
| bjonnh | is that a troll attempt? | 22:28 |
| justanotheruser | transcribing? | 22:28 |
| justanotheruser | coding faster | 22:28 |
| bjonnh | chatting on irc… | 22:28 |
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| Diablo-D3 | I'm not trolling | 22:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | Also, re: qwerty vs any other layout.... games. | 22:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | too many games just very badly screw this up | 22:29 |
| Diablo-D3 | wasd is wasd no matter what your layout is, period | 22:29 |
| justanotheruser | yeah, it does suck | 22:30 |
| bjonnh | "whats the point of reaching/doing xxx" is usually not really productive as a comment | 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | I dont care what letter comes out when you press wasd, its wasd | 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: no, it is | 22:30 |
| justanotheruser | you can map ctrl+9 to remap though | 22:30 |
| bjonnh | well you can map dynamically | 22:30 |
| bjonnh | most OSes/DE support that | 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: its called wasting time optimizing something thats already fast enough | 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | mapping dynamically gets weird | 22:30 |
| Diablo-D3 | due to in game chat | 22:30 |
| bjonnh | well I don't do games | 22:31 |
| bjonnh | I wonder why you could decide that xxx is fast enough for everybody | 22:31 |
| bjonnh | it is like saying that 640k will be enough | 22:32 |
| Diablo-D3 | because the human mind generally can only process intelligible language only so fast | 22:32 |
| bjonnh | you're making this up | 22:33 |
| bjonnh | sorry | 22:33 |
| Diablo-D3 | am I? | 22:34 |
| bjonnh | yes | 22:34 |
| bjonnh | stenotypist reach easily over 200wpm | 22:34 |
| Diablo-D3 | I mean, you can start using counter arguments such as those training programs that make you read super fast or whatnot | 22:34 |
| bjonnh | and can go far higher | 22:34 |
| bjonnh | no | 22:34 |
| bjonnh | I'm talking about real life stuff | 22:34 |
| bjonnh | like typists for court | 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | do _any_ of those programs work btw? | 22:35 |
| bjonnh | for their creator that sell them? probably :p | 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | and btw, a lot of stenographers still use shorthand | 22:35 |
| bjonnh | and? | 22:35 |
| bjonnh | I was just opposing real data to your argument "human mind generally can only process intelligible language only so fast" | 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | just saying | 22:35 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: well | 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | first of all, stenographers are unique | 22:36 |
| bjonnh | wikipedia says: The average adult reads prose text at 250 to 300 words per minute. | 22:36 |
| Diablo-D3 | and it also takes the entire concentration to record accurately that fast | 22:36 |
| bjonnh | I'll not pursue this conversation further | 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | *their | 22:37 |
| bjonnh | you are just trying to justify an argument that was not valid | 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: Im talking about average people, I guess. | 22:37 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: okay so, wait a second | 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | if the average person can read 250-300 words per minute | 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | the average novel has 250-300 words per page | 22:38 |
| Diablo-D3 | and there are, say, 500 page novels | 22:38 |
| bjonnh | you are then making the assumption that this speed can be sustained for 500 minutes, and that attention is constant when reading a book | 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | well what Im saying is | 22:40 |
| Diablo-D3 | that actually might be right | 22:41 |
| bjonnh | yeah 1p/min sounds about right for novel-reading | 22:41 |
| justanotheruser | so what you're telling me is I can pump out 2 novels a day if I get to 200WPM? | 22:41 |
| bjonnh | justanotheruser: YES | 22:41 |
| bjonnh | start now | 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | bjonnh: because I regularly read novels in around 5-8h depending on the size | 22:41 |
| Diablo-D3 | well, used to regularly | 22:43 |
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