| --- Log opened Sat Aug 06 00:00:18 2016 | ||
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:23 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:24 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:28 | |
| -!- Peter_R_ [1872184c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.114.24.76] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:29 | |
| Peter_R_ | This weak block discussion sounds a lot like subchains: http://www.bitcoinunlimited.info/resources/subchains.pdf | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| Peter_R_ | Visual explaination: https://bitco.in/forum/threads/subchains-and-other-applications-of-weak-blocks.584/#post-7246 | 00:30 |
| -!- Peter_R_ [1872184c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.114.24.76] has quit [Client Quit] | 00:31 | |
| -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:42 | |
| -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:43 | |
| -!- Emcy [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:46 | |
| @gmaxwell | Oh plagerist drive by | 00:46 |
| @gmaxwell | For those who don't know, I described weakblocks in extensive detail to PeterR in a private email conversation that he was kind enough to post to bitcoin-dev | 00:47 |
| @gmaxwell | he had a real hard time understand the idea, so I explained it several times | 00:47 |
| @gmaxwell | Then he had the nerve to write an academic paper on the subject renaming it, and dishonestly misattributing it. | 00:48 |
| @gmaxwell | Ashame: the illustrations in his paper were quite well done.-- too bad so much talent is wasted on a person who is completely devoid of integrity. | 00:48 |
| -!- Peter_R_ [488fe554@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.143.229.84] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:48 | |
| @gmaxwell | Figured that would work. | 00:49 |
| @gmaxwell | Peter_R_: You're not welcome here. You are a dispiciable and dishonest person. | 00:49 |
| -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+b *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.143.229.84] by gmaxwell | 00:49 | |
| -!- Peter_R_ was kicked from #bitcoin-wizards by gmaxwell [Peter_R_] | 00:49 | |
| @gmaxwell | ( the email thread, for reference, http://pastebin.com/jFgkk8M3 ) | 00:50 |
| -!- TheSeven [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 00:50 | |
| -!- [7] [~quassel@rockbox/developer/TheSeven] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 00:51 | |
| @gmaxwell | I'm tired of being chased out of a channel I created by PeterR and his toadies and socks. | 00:51 |
| -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 00:52 | |
| -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [+b *!*@*.24.114.24.76] by gmaxwell | 00:55 | |
| -!- Sleepnbum [~Sleepnbum@173.55.57.163] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:00 | |
| -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:06 | |
| -!- Sleepnbum [~Sleepnbum@173.55.57.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 01:24 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: :)] | 01:24 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@c-98-234-63-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:28 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhtjsvcimgjfogma] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:33 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 01:47 | |
| -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 01:49 | |
| -!- ghtdak [~ghtdak@unaffiliated/ghtdak] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 01:50 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:10 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] | 02:10 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 02:15 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:18 | |
| tunafizz | damnit. did a paper on bitcoin last year, didn't know I could just have you guys write it for me... | 02:34 |
| tunafizz | would have saved me hours of effort and taking the time to learn the technicals of btc | 02:34 |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:37 | |
| sipa | tunafizz: but then you wouldn't have learned as much :) | 02:37 |
| -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:44 | |
| -!- FNinTak [~jonhbit@dhcp-18-111-10-93.dyn.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 02:44 | |
| -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 02:48 | |
| -!- b-itcoinssg [uid41629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-enbvfgttbsobygip] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 02:56 | |
| -!- arubi__ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:05 | |
| -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 03:09 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 03:19 | |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards8 [73a60efa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.166.14.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 03:20 | |
| -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 03:27 | |
| -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:27 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:35 | |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards9 [73a60efa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.166.14.250] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:38 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qhtjsvcimgjfogma] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 03:45 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:52 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 03:57 | |
| -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 03:59 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 04:04 | |
| -!- MoALTz [~no@78-11-183-124.static.ip.netia.com.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 04:07 | |
| -!- HostFat [~HostFat@2-235-224-2.ip230.fastwebnet.it] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:14 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:20 | |
| -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:21 | |
| -!- arubi__ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 04:25 | |
| -!- Guest73674 [~derek@2605:6400:10:3c9:dfd3:3e96:2608:98a7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:27 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@c-98-234-63-169.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:38 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 04:39 | |
| -!- arubi__ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:42 | |
| -!- arubi_ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 04:47 | |
| -!- [Derek] [~derek@199.195.250.122] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:49 | |
| -!- [Derek] is now known as Guest15518 | 04:49 | |
| -!- Guest15518 is now known as [Derek] | 04:51 | |
| -!- [Derek] [~derek@199.195.250.122] has quit [Changing host] | 04:51 | |
| -!- [Derek] [~derek@unaffiliated/derek/x-8562683] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 04:51 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 05:02 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:09 | |
| -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:13 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:23 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttvvslxojtyvhxdq] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:33 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 05:35 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:37 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:42 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 05:48 | |
| -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 05:54 | |
| -!- Hunger- [~hunger@prodevops.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:28 | |
| -!- Guest79503 is now known as pigeons | 06:45 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 06:47 | |
| -!- arubi__ [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 06:47 | |
| -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:47 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:49 | |
| -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Client Quit] | 06:50 | |
| -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:51 | |
| -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:52 | |
| -!- arubi [~ese168@unaffiliated/arubi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 06:55 | |
| -!- _flow_ [flow@star.geekplace.eu] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:02 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:06 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:17 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:23 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] | 07:25 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:26 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] | 07:27 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:27 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:27 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 07:28 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: Bye!] | 07:33 | |
| -!- AaronvanW [~ewout@unaffiliated/aaronvanw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:35 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:44 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 07:45 | |
| -!- Yogh [~Yogh@f36186.upc-f.chello.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:50 | |
| -!- b-itcoinssg [uid41629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-enbvfgttbsobygip] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 07:52 | |
| -!- mkarrer [~mkarrer@142.red-83-47-107.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:58 | |
| -!- mkarrer [~mkarrer@142.red-83-47-107.dynamicip.rima-tde.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 07:58 | |
| -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 08:11 | |
| bsm1175321 | I'm very dismayed that gmaxwell is so bitter. I spoke with Peter_R and he expressed nothing but respect for gmaxwell. Both Peter_R and I are here largely because gmaxwell intellegently engaged us and patiently answered questions when we first showed up in -wizards. I don't want to have to pick sides in someone else's fight. | 08:12 |
| -!- Starduster [~guest@unaffiliated/starduster] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:12 | |
| -!- CoinHunter [~CoinHunte@2601:150:4103:210:adce:9a72:6a:5941] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:20 | |
| -!- brg444 [18257df2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.37.125.242] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:22 | |
| brg444 | I had to log in to address this previous comment ^^ | 08:23 |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 08:24 | |
| brg444 | that you would even suggest Peter R is acting in good faith and with genuine intentions shows you are unfortunately out of touch with his entire shenanigans throughout the last few years | 08:24 |
| brg444 | him singing the praise of Greg isn't something worth giving him credit for when he spent the better part of the last year making spiteful back handed comments on him | 08:25 |
| kanzure | and why would it matter whether someone praises gmaxwell? that's completely irrelevant. | 08:27 |
| pigeons | let's take this somewhere else so i can tell bsm1175321 how full of crap that is. Its much more than that email exchange. Its pathological and insidious and persistent and dark and gross. | 08:27 |
| brg444 | Peter has rallied a great amount of malicious individuals and fueled constant character assassination toward various contributors to the ecosystem. | 08:28 |
| brg444 | Sorry I know this is off-topic so I'll leave it at that... but let's not be so easily deceived by somehow who's made a habit out of manipulating people | 08:29 |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:31 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:33 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 08:38 | |
| bsm1175321 | I really don't want to be involved. I'm an editor for his journal, and I feel I can do good that way, independent of this drama. | 08:51 |
| kanzure | perhaps instead of highlighting what you perceive to be bitterness, you should consider the downsides to working with those who are academically dishonest (why would you want to work for "his" journal under those circumstances? wat?) | 08:52 |
| Taek | easy guys | 08:53 |
| kanzure | s/"his" journal/"his journal"/ i guess | 08:53 |
| bsm1175321 | I honestly haven't tried to evaluate it, and don't have an opinion. The weak blocks/xthin is in my opinion premature optimization. It's valuable in the short term but doesn't solve the fundamental problem: a chain is a single-writer model, and there are multiple writers. (Hence my work on braids) | 08:59 |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 09:00 | |
| Taek | I'm not sure what work is currently being done on weak blocks for Bitcoin, but from a theoretical perspective weak blocks are a lot less far out than braids. They are definitely lower hanging fruit, and provide some tangible advantages | 09:02 |
| bsm1175321 | I agree Taek. I'm not opposed to other people working on them, but have chosen to put my efforts elsewhere... ;-) | 09:07 |
| -!- CoinHunter is now known as CoinHunters | 09:07 | |
| bsm1175321 | Isn't this the same as "compact block relay" which is going in to core? | 09:07 |
| kanzure | see links in http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2016-08-05.log (short answer: compact blocks are not the only idea you are conflating here) | 09:10 |
| bsm1175321 | Ah I see kanzure | 09:12 |
| -!- rasengan [c6085028@pdpc/corporate-sponsor/privateinternetaccess.com/rasengan] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 1.6-frutas] | 09:21 | |
| bsm1175321 | Even with both compact blocks and weak blocks, there will still be orphans. | 09:22 |
| bsm1175321 | And selfish mining will still work. | 09:23 |
| -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-114-5.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 09:38 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@2601:645:c001:263a:1531:b726:185b:ef38] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 09:40 | |
| bsm1175321 | FWIW, The Subchains paper has not been submitted to Ledger. (I just checked) If it were, I would do my best in the role of editor to ensure that proper attribution was made. | 09:40 |
| -!- r0ach [~r0ach@107-217-214-192.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] | 09:40 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@unaffiliated/thesnark] has quit [Quit: "back in 2 hours"] | 09:46 | |
| -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-208-155.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 09:49 | |
| -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 09:50 | |
| -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@wpsoftware.net] has quit [Changing host] | 09:52 | |
| -!- andytoshi [~andytoshi@unaffiliated/andytoshi] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 09:52 | |
| -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 10:04 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttvvslxojtyvhxdq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 10:15 | |
| -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-114-5.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 10:17 | |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards9 [73a60efa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.115.166.14.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 10:28 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 10:35 | |
| -!- instagibbs [~instagibb@pool-100-15-114-5.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 10:37 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 10:38 | |
| -!- shesek [~shesek@bzq-84-110-32-196.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 10:43 | |
| -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [-b *!*@veltion1.static.otenet.gr$#bitcoin-bans] by wizkid057 | 11:01 | |
| -!- draynium [~d@45.63.97.181] has quit [Quit: <No reason given>] | 11:19 | |
| -!- draynium [~d@45.63.97.181] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:29 | |
| -!- mode/#bitcoin-wizards [-b *!*@38.121.165.30] by wizkid057 | 11:33 | |
| -!- r0ach [~r0ach@107-217-214-192.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:45 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@2601:645:c001:263a:1531:b726:185b:ef38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 11:46 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 11:49 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 11:50 | |
| -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZZZzzz…] | 11:53 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:03 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:16 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:32 | |
| -!- r0ach [~r0ach@107-217-214-192.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 12:37 | |
| -!- brg444 [18257df2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.37.125.242] has quit [Quit: Page closed] | 12:47 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 12:51 | |
| -!- domwoe_ [~domwoe@vpn-global-148-dhcp.ethz.ch] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:51 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 12:53 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 12:55 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwxrzrcdmtvpfpsw] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 12:55 | |
| -!- koshii [~w@c-68-58-151-30.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 13:01 | |
| -!- koshii [~w@c-68-58-151-30.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:02 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@unaffiliated/thesnark] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 13:10 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:10 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:20 | |
| -!- smk [57edad5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.237.173.95] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:20 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 13:28 | |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:32 | |
| -!- domwoe_ [~domwoe@vpn-global-148-dhcp.ethz.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 13:34 | |
| -!- Sleepnbum [~Sleepnbum@173.55.57.163] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:43 | |
| -!- smk [57edad5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.237.173.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 13:47 | |
| -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 13:55 | |
| -!- Emcy_ [~MC@unaffiliated/mc1984] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 13:55 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:05 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 14:09 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:19 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:20 | |
| -!- molly [~molly@unaffiliated/molly] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:21 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 14:24 | |
| -!- iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:26 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:31 | |
| -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 14:35 | |
| -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:43 | |
| midnightmagic | bsm1175321: In all the time I've watched, read, and seen (hand-drawn comics included) there has never been any respect whatsoever, almost right from the beginning, from him. He is showing you a facet of his character, and showing everyone else something else entirely. Seriously. The guy drew a hand-drawn un-funny animation of "someone" in core getting squished to death. With blood. By big | 14:45 |
| midnightmagic | blocks. He makes statements which are cruel, tolerates and thereby encourages criminal behaviour on the part of sycophants who follow him around, and makes lopsided and false comments about the ability, intention, and morals of people who disagree with him. Consider the possibility that it is likely he just doesn't want to lose what support he has in the form of folks like yourself by | 14:45 |
| midnightmagic | giving you reasons to doubt his character. But woe be unto ye if you get on his bad side. Don't say nobody warned you. | 14:45 |
| sipa | bsm1175321: compact blocks is a change purely between two individual peers on the network, exploiting the fact that the receiver of a block already knows most of the transactions anyway | 14:50 |
| sipa | bsm1175321: weak blocks is a change where miners announce partial PoW solutions with attached data to make the network know and validate ahead of time what they are working on | 14:50 |
| sipa | they interact insofar that weak blocks can use compact block protocol to be relayed as well... but it goes much further | 14:51 |
| sipa | as compact blocks is about individual transactions; with weak blocks often a full block can be completely validated by the network ahead of time | 14:51 |
| bsm1175321 | sipa: It seems rather unlikely that between a weak block and a regular block, no new transactions appear, no? | 14:52 |
| sipa | bsm1175321: miners have no incentive to include new transactions that they don't know the network hasn't already validated | 14:52 |
| sipa | unless they are doing a selfish mining attack of course, which they always can | 14:53 |
| sipa | the idea behind weak blocks is that finding a weak block grants you a right to tell the network what you're working on, but also what you soon will be working on | 14:53 |
| sipa | other miners have an incentive to switch to the block you've announced to be working on as well | 14:54 |
| sipa | and indeed, it does not and cannot prevents orphans... but under non-adverserial circumstances it can make block propagation independent from the block size | 14:55 |
| bsm1175321 | Interesting. Has that been the plan all along? | 14:55 |
| sipa | the effect from just latency due to geographical distribution can't be prevented and will always be a centralization pressure | 14:55 |
| -!- gribble [~gribble@unaffiliated/nanotube/bot/gribble] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:56 | |
| sipa | but for example FIBRE relays blocks now often within 10ms of what the speed of light can do | 14:56 |
| bsm1175321 | sipa: Leave that to me...with braids. | 14:56 |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@50-198-99-124-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:57 | |
| sipa | bsm1175321: i am not convinced that braids can solve this, especially when there are double spends in the network | 14:57 |
| sipa | bsm1175321: but i encourage research about it! | 14:57 |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:57 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 14:57 | |
| bsm1175321 | sipa: That's a good point. Adversarial double-spends can simulate the effect of orphans, I'm aware of this. | 14:57 |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 14:57 | |
| bsm1175321 | I'm working on an alternative mechanism to resolve double-spends as a consequence. | 14:58 |
| sipa | in any case, i don't think we will have one magic bullet solution for this | 14:58 |
| bsm1175321 | e.g. an adversarial miner could broadcast a spend to all other miners, and mine a double-spend himself, to force other miners to fork. | 14:58 |
| sipa | have you talked with aviv zohar? | 14:59 |
| bsm1175321 | Not recently, I think he was at the HK Scaling Bitcoin though. | 15:00 |
| sipa | he was not | 15:00 |
| bsm1175321 | Then no...why? | 15:00 |
| sipa | his research group has been working on graph-based block chain ideas for a few years now | 15:00 |
| sipa | a student of his presented in HK, i believe | 15:01 |
| bsm1175321 | It was Yonatan at scaling... | 15:01 |
| sipa | right | 15:01 |
| bsm1175321 | He disappeared shortly after our talks, I only talked to him breifly :-/ | 15:01 |
| sipa | i think you should try to collaborate with them | 15:01 |
| bsm1175321 | Perhaps, have they made any progress since their "Inclusive" paper? | 15:02 |
| sipa | i've talked to aviv at financial cryptography in february | 15:03 |
| sipa | i don't know the details, but i'm sure they are working on more than what was presented | 15:03 |
| bsm1175321 | I gave an online talk with my latest results which you can find linked here: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/4srtfs/braiding_the_blockchain_bob_mcelrath_phd_if_two/ | 15:04 |
| bsm1175321 | Basically I found a "fastest possible block time" with my cohorts algorithm. (which is also new since I talked with you at Scaling) | 15:04 |
| bsm1175321 | I'm hoping to have an alternative double-spend algorithm, as well as a "merging" algorithm by Milan... | 15:05 |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 15:09 | |
| -!- licnep [uid4387@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kpexqdkgfsqpzdgn] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:20 | |
| -!- jaekwon_ [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:20 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 15:21 | |
| -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:37 | |
| -!- Guyver2 [~Guyver2@guyver2.xs4all.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:39 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:40 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@unaffiliated/thesnark] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 15:42 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@50-198-99-124-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 16:00 | |
| midnightmagic | For what it's worth, I've already banned him and explicitly told him, like six times now, they he's not welcome here; so, by logging in from another host, he's ban-evading. (Perhaps unwittingly, but he at least knows that I kickbanned him already.) | 16:07 |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@50-198-99-124-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:08 | |
| -!- BashCo [~BashCo@unaffiliated/bashco] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 16:11 | |
| -!- nuke_ [~nuke@176.92.95.105] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:19 | |
| -!- droark [~droark@c-24-22-36-12.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:19 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:26 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@50-198-99-124-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:34 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 16:46 | |
| -!- Ylbam [uid99779@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uwxrzrcdmtvpfpsw] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 17:05 | |
| kanzure | .tw https://twitter.com/domiwoe/status/762057993840168960 | 17:11 |
| yoleaux | @kanzure Do you know to which paper about SC in Solidity Boneh is referring to in the beginning? (@domiwoe) | 17:11 |
| sipa | SC? | 17:13 |
| kanzure | smart contracts? dunno. | 17:18 |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 17:19 | |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Quit: cyphase.com] | 17:20 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@unaffiliated/thesnark] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 17:23 | |
| domwoe | yeah | 17:24 |
| domwoe | I'm referring to that: "There was a paper that came out of this with ethereum smart contracts. So did elaine shi. They were using the python version of the scripting language. Ours is the javascript version of the scripting language." | 17:24 |
| -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 17:29 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 17:35 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 17:37 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@c-98-224-165-72.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 17:37 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 17:54 | |
| pigeons | I bet maybe https://mc2-umd.github.io/ethereumlab/docs/serpent_tutorial.pdf , remember Serpent is the "python [-like] version" and Solidity the "javascript [-like] version" | 17:57 |
| pigeons | they have a "go-like version too, Mutans or somethin. I guess people only use solidity now | 17:58 |
| -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:6ab8:4a2:29d:a1ba:53d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] | 17:58 | |
| -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:90d7:284f:2d3c:a1ba:53d4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:01 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:08 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:10 | |
| -!- laurentmt [~Thunderbi@176.158.157.202] has quit [Client Quit] | 18:10 | |
| domwoe | That's the python/serpent paper by Elaine Shi he mentions | 18:20 |
| -!- dnaleor [~dnaleor@78-23-74-78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 18:26 | |
| kanzure | unfortunately that elaine shi paper was mentioned by me, not dan | 18:28 |
| kanzure | although he recognized it, so *shrug* | 18:28 |
| domwoe | ah ok. But "Ours is the javascript version of the scripting language." refers to Boneh's group | 18:30 |
| kanzure | yes that's right | 18:31 |
| domwoe | hmm maybe it's not yet published | 18:31 |
| -!- jtimon [~quassel@55.31.134.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 18:39 | |
| -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:90d7:284f:2d3c:a1ba:53d4] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 18:45 | |
| -!- thesnark [~mike@c-98-224-165-72.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 18:45 | |
| -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:90d7:284f:2d3c:a1ba:53d4] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:48 | |
| -!- netzin [~netsin@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 18:57 | |
| -!- netzin is now known as nets1n | 18:57 | |
| -!- dEBRUYNE [~dEBRUYNE@unaffiliated/debruyne] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 18:58 | |
| -!- King_Rex [~King_Rex@unaffiliated/king-rex/x-3258444] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:06 | |
| -!- nuke_ [~nuke@176.92.95.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 19:12 | |
| -!- rhett [~rhett@c-73-223-86-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 19:15 | |
| rhett | hi wizards | 19:15 |
| rhett | Why doesn't someone do what ethereum classic did for a larger blocksize bitcoin? | 19:16 |
| rhett | instead of the bitcoin XT approach | 19:16 |
| rhett | give everyone who currently has bitcoin equivalent bitcoin XL on a new forked blockchain, and then list it on an exchange? | 19:17 |
| sipa | that's what classic/xt would have done if it actually got adopted | 19:17 |
| rhett | I thought classic was trying to write blocks on the bitcoin blockchain | 19:18 |
| -!- belcher [~user@unaffiliated/belcher] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 19:18 | |
| sipa | a hard fork causes a fork... afterwards there are two chains | 19:18 |
| rhett | right, like ethereum classic | 19:18 |
| sipa | the only difference is who gets to claim the name 'bitcoin' | 19:18 |
| sipa | but there is no technical difference here | 19:19 |
| rhett | maybe I'm confused. With ETH/ ETC, there are two chains. ETC won't likely "die" completely even if its market cap goes way down | 19:19 |
| rhett | I thought bitcoin XT was trying to write blocks on the bitcoin blockchain | 19:20 |
| rhett | and competing for block writing | 19:20 |
| rhett | the ETC approach doesn't care what ETH does | 19:20 |
| rhett | ETC is just an altcoin | 19:20 |
| rhett | and it trades on an exchange | 19:20 |
| rhett | just like litecoin or dogecoin | 19:20 |
| sipa | i would argue that the new 'ETH' is an altcoin, and ETC is just the new name for what ETH used to be | 19:21 |
| sipa | yes, you're confused | 19:21 |
| sipa | there is zero difference between the two approaches | 19:21 |
| rhett | so, where can I buy bitcoin XT? | 19:21 |
| sipa | xt never caused a fork | 19:21 |
| sipa | because it didn't get adopted by miners | 19:22 |
| sipa | there is no such thing as 'writing in the bitcoin blockchain'; after a fork, there are two completely independent chains | 19:22 |
| rhett | so there is 100% difference between the two approaches | 19:22 |
| sipa | there would be no difference if XT or Bitcoin Classic would have been adopted | 19:22 |
| rhett | so there is 100% difference between the two approaches | 19:23 |
| sipa | no | 19:23 |
| sipa | what XT was _trying_ to do is exactly the same thing as what ETH _did_ | 19:23 |
| rhett | can't you make an altcoin with like 2 miners? | 19:23 |
| dgenr8 | in the last 2 hours BIP109 has 4.2% of hash power. but it is defined not to fork with less that 75% | 19:24 |
| sipa | sure, it would be very insecure though | 19:24 |
| rhett | ok, so ETC started out very insecure. The main differences were social ones, not necessary technical | 19:25 |
| rhett | let people speculate on an insecure altcoin | 19:25 |
| sipa | yes, the difference is that for ETH/ETC, a fork actually happened, and despite all claims that everyone would switch to the new ETH, that was wrong... and ETC actually got some traction | 19:25 |
| dgenr8 | sipa: how do you feel about it? you mention quite often that "100% agreement is required to fork" | 19:26 |
| bsm1175321 | The one thing the ETH/ETC fiasco taught me was that there is a profit motive for exchanges to enable trading on both sides of the fork, and it has nothing to do with technical merits of the fork. ANY hard fork which creates two tradeable coins can cause a 50% split of mining power, and effective destruction of the currency. | 19:28 |
| domwoe | Although it would be much harder to continue a minority fork in bitcoin because the difficulty gets only re-adjusted every 2000 blocks or so | 19:29 |
| sipa | plus bitcoin actually gets used for payments | 19:29 |
| rhett | exactly bsm117532 I think someone must do it with bitcoin soon | 19:29 |
| bsm1175321 | rhett I think you misunderstood me. | 19:29 |
| rhett | not that it will necessarily be good for bitcoin | 19:29 |
| rhett | but good for the exchanges | 19:30 |
| sipa | rhett: i don't understand why you think so. Classic and XT and Unlimited _tried_ to do exactly that in bitcoin | 19:30 |
| rhett | and coin pumpers | 19:30 |
| sipa | you seem to think that what happened with ETH was somehow different | 19:30 |
| rhett | sipa: it was different because kraken, poloniex, soon coinbase email customers and say, "hey you have some free ETC" | 19:31 |
| sipa | rhett: no, it was different because miners actually went along with the fork | 19:31 |
| sipa | rhett: the fact that exchanges then chose to also list the minority fork was a logical consequence | 19:31 |
| rhett | imagine if they just emailed everyone and said, "hey you have some free BTC-XL" | 19:31 |
| rhett | bitcoin ran fine on 1% of the mining power it has today | 19:32 |
| sipa | that's irrelevant | 19:32 |
| rhett | coins with low mining power are just worth less | 19:32 |
| sipa | that's completely unrelated | 19:32 |
| sipa | a minority chain with 1% would be trivially attacked by the 99% | 19:32 |
| sipa | plus it would greatly undermine bitcoin's value proposition | 19:33 |
| rhett | they are separate coins | 19:33 |
| rhett | why doesn't dogecoin get trivially attacked? | 19:33 |
| sipa | doesn't prevent attacking | 19:33 |
| sipa | because it's a different proof of work function | 19:33 |
| sipa | bitcoin miners can't be used to attack dogecoin | 19:33 |
| bsm1175321 | Dogecoin did. They implmented merge-mining with litecoin to mitigate it. | 19:33 |
| kanzure | sipa: pool hopping does cause problems for some scrypt-based altcoins | 19:33 |
| sipa | kanzure: yes, but a scrypt miner can't be used to attack a sha-pow chain | 19:34 |
| kanzure | (and other hash functions, of course) | 19:34 |
| rhett | So, if the fork changes the work function, but uses the same keypairs? | 19:34 |
| sipa | rhett: that's possible | 19:35 |
| dgenr8 | rhett: if a bitcoin fork actually does try to do what ETC did, you'll know it | 19:35 |
| sipa | rhett: but then you can't claim to be the 'successor' to bitcoin anymore | 19:35 |
| rhett | i'd want to get in early if the coin pumpers are any good | 19:35 |
| sipa | well good luck :) | 19:35 |
| dgenr8 | sipa: how do you feel about relying on close ties with centralized mining? necessary evil? | 19:36 |
| kanzure | dgenr8: how do you feel about asking loaded questions? :) | 19:36 |
| dgenr8 | the only guy I've seen talk about an "inspired derivative" of bitcoin is Reid Hoffman | 19:38 |
| kanzure | sipa: perhaps exchanges that want to capitalize on the belief of users like rhett would be better off without a hard-fork at all. instead, they could list other symbols for trading prior to and without any fork, by holding the private keys themselvs. then the exchanges would be responsible for not double spending against themselves. | 19:39 |
| kanzure | *themselves | 19:40 |
| -!- nets1n [~netsin@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:42 | |
| -!- nets1n [~netsin@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 19:43 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 19:44 | |
| kanzure | sipa: also, from a safety perspective, it is much better for exchanges to list something like that, rather than running an altcoin source code (for example: see how cryptsy was hax0red via remote backdoor in one of the altcoin implementations that they installed on to a shared server). other safety benefits include not blowing up the network in difficult-to-illustrate ways, or not needing to spend money on R&D for anti-replay tech things. | 19:44 |
| sipa | kanzure: ha! starts to sound like how buying virtual mining contracts is sometimes more profitable than buying actual hardware :) | 19:47 |
| -!- nets1n [~netsin@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 19:47 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 19:48 | |
| kanzure | sipa: nope, no profitability claims were being made :) | 19:49 |
| kanzure | sipa: and it's entirely possible for highly-centralized constructions to be profitable, regardless of infringement on underlying principles. anyway, the exchanges could choose to use their fee earnings to fund deployment of.. uh.. whatever it is that they think they want.. | 19:50 |
| kanzure | *fee earnings from that new listed symbol (in particular) | 19:50 |
| dgenr8 | sipa: will blockstream introduce sidechains that mix transferred BTC with generated native tokens? | 19:51 |
| kanzure | i think others have already introduced that (drivejobs etc) | 19:52 |
| dgenr8 | sipa: how do you feel about censorship? | 19:55 |
| sipa | dgenr8: i have no idea what you mean | 19:56 |
| kanzure | dgenr8: what's up? | 19:56 |
| sipa | by mix, do you mean coinjoin? | 19:57 |
| dgenr8 | no, i mean creating value units in coinbases or the like, and not just by incoming transfers from BTC | 19:58 |
| sipa | native assets on a sidechain is something we're working on, yes | 19:59 |
| sipa | not sure what you mean by mixing | 19:59 |
| dgenr8 | that the generated units are indistinguishable from or used equivalently to the incoming transferred units. ie new money supply created by and for ... someone | 20:00 |
| sipa | well they're a different asset class than BTC | 20:00 |
| sipa | if they're indistinguishable, you'd be creating a fractional reserve layer | 20:01 |
| dgenr8 | last week i was chatting with a ripply guy. he expressed that he would be just fine with XRP, of which his company owns half the supply, becoming the dominant crypto currency | 20:01 |
| sipa | the amount of BTC in a sidechain must exactly match the amount pegged to it from the bitcoin chain, or you'd cause a "run on the sidechain" as the last people out would lose | 20:02 |
| sipa | i hope that the design of sidechains makes such a thing unviable, as the pegged amounts on both sides is visible to everyone | 20:03 |
| sipa | *are | 20:03 |
| dgenr8 | suppose the sidechain is really useful. because of improvements (that haven't been made to bitcoin). then the BTC units transferred there might be more valuable, even after dilution from money printing. | 20:05 |
| sipa | with a 2-way peg in place the value on both sides should be identical | 20:06 |
| sipa | or close to identical | 20:06 |
| sipa | due to the slow transfer there may be some arbitrage possible | 20:07 |
| dgenr8 | hence my original question. will blockstream introduce sidechains that mix transferred BTC with generated native tokens? | 20:07 |
| sipa | do you mean whether we plan to create a fraction reserve bitcoin in a sidechain? definitely not | 20:07 |
| dgenr8 | how reassuring :) | 20:08 |
| dgenr8 | hit kanzure | 20:08 |
| dgenr8 | hi | 20:08 |
| kanzure | i know 18 forms of whatever CSW said, hitting me is ill advised | 20:08 |
| sipa | and i hope that the design of sidechains makes that impossible for anyone else who would want to try | 20:08 |
| sipa | at least it would have to be a transparent fractional reserve, where all users are aware of it | 20:09 |
| kanzure | it's ot really a concern because a federated signing model is not really useful in the same way that bitcoin is currently useful. so "it would be more valuable" is possible (in terms of market price) but it's also irrelevant -- lots of highly centralized bad ideas have a high market price, who cares. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | (and even if you strike "highly centralized" from my last message, i still think that a 10,000-signatory sidechain is still not encroaching on bitcoin value prop) | 20:11 |
| kanzure | (and perhaps some might think 10k-signatory/functionary is highly centralized anyway, hehe) | 20:11 |
| dgenr8 | a sidechain as an altcoin that supports pegging, so pretty much the whole universe is open to it in terms of design. anyone disagree with that characterization? | 20:12 |
| kanzure | strong disagree. many forms of sidechain designs can be ill-advised . large chunks of universe are inaccessible from a design perspective. | 20:14 |
| dgenr8 | s/as/is | 20:16 |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:31 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 20:33 | |
| maaku | kanzure what CSW said is only 9 forms/schools | 20:36 |
| maaku | And I actually am trained in them ;) | 20:37 |
| kanzure | https://twitter.com/sarahjeong/status/744982970344235013 | 20:37 |
| kanzure | ah i see, it's not 18 of ninjutsu. very well. | 20:37 |
| kanzure | anyway, off-topic. | 20:38 |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards0 [6a44b8b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.68.184.182] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 20:38 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:48 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 20:50 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 20:51 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:00 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:01 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 21:05 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 21:34 | |
| -!- Alopex [~bitcoin@cyber.dealing.ninja] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 21:36 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:01 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 22:06 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] | 22:18 | |
| -!- EasyAt [~easy@unaffiliated/easyat] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:38 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 22:39 | |
| -!- jaekwon_ [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:41 | |
| -!- aalex [~aalex@64.187.177.58] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:43 | |
| -!- jaekwon [~jaekwon@75-101-96-71.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 22:46 | |
| -!- ThomasV [~ThomasV@unaffiliated/thomasv] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:00 | |
| -!- NicolasDorier [sid129442@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sisqimupmpwpnfso] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:01 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:03 | |
| -!- rhett [~rhett@c-73-223-86-218.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 23:04 | |
| -!- domwoe [~domwoe@209-6-39-253.c3-0.smr-ubr2.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 23:08 | |
| -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmlmrflropeoozsh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 23:30 | |
| -!- bitcoin-wizards0 [6a44b8b6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.106.68.184.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 23:31 | |
| -!- nets1n [~netsin@unaffiliated/jiggalator] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:34 | |
| -!- btcdrak [uid165369@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cowjvbohfpuqmmno] has joined #bitcoin-wizards | 23:37 | |
| -!- bildramer [~bildramer@2001:0:9d38:90d7:284f:2d3c:a1ba:53d4] has quit [Quit: hanlon was malicious] | 23:41 | |
| -!- AusteritySucks [~Austerity@unaffiliated/austeritysucks] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 23:58 | |
| --- Log closed Sun Aug 07 00:00:18 2016 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!