| --- Log opened Wed Jun 26 00:00:07 2013 | ||
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:00 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: right now a 3 earth mass cloud of gas is making its closest approach to the black hole at the center of our galaxy.] | 00:27 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:03 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 02:13 | |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 02:33 | |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 02:42 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:01 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:03 | |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:50 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:18 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:29 | |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-152.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 04:42 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:48 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 05:03 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node128.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:29 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node128.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] | 05:29 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:29 | |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:41 | |
| -!- joehot [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:32 | |
| -!- comet [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 06:34 | |
| -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:40 | |
| -!- joehot [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 06:41 | |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 06:55 | |
| kanzure | what sort of sdr toys should i get? | 06:59 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | also maybe i should get an aircrack-compatible thing | 07:00 |
| chris_99 | kraken | 07:00 |
| -!- Thorbinator2 [~Thorbinat@66-237-51-34.starstream.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:06 | |
| -!- Thorbinator1 [~Thorbinat@66-237-51-34.starstream.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] | 07:08 | |
| -!- joehot [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:14 | |
| -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 07:17 | |
| -!- kmo [122@unaffiliated/kmo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 07:33 | |
| -!- randalla1ordon [~randall@71-38-140-244.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:35 | |
| -!- randallagordon [~randall@71-222-87-7.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 07:38 | |
| -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:57 | |
| -!- joehot [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 07:58 | |
| ParahSai1in | when is latest goog aapl lawsuit reaching verdict? | 08:44 |
| kanzure | ask #startups | 08:48 |
| -!- crw [~crw@unaffiliated/crw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] | 08:54 | |
| kanzure | i guess crw didn't like it here | 09:00 |
| kanzure | or he finished catching up on email | 09:01 |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:01 | |
| -!- crw [~crw@unaffiliated/crw] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:07 | |
| kanzure | chris_99: http://www.embecosm.com/2013/06/26/preparing-for-parallella-sunday-21st-july-2013-bletchley-uk/ | 09:48 |
| kanzure | crw: welcome back | 09:48 |
| ParahSai1in | ah goodie, i hope i have time to play with mine | 10:07 |
| archels | Has anyone here ever messed around with tDCS or tACS? | 10:14 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:14 | |
| archels | If yes, have you ever seen phosphenes? | 10:14 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] | 10:16 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:22 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 10:33 | |
| -!- ThomasEgi [~thomas@panda3d/ThomasEgi] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:38 | |
| crw | kanzure: thanks :) sorry, stepped out for a late breakfast | 10:40 |
| gradstudentbot | My parents keep asking when I'm going to finish. | 10:42 |
| chris_99 | ooh cheers kanzure looks interesting (the parallela thing) | 10:45 |
| -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 11:37 | |
| -!- lupfantomo [~lupfantom@24-159-24-229.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:41 | |
| kanzure | archels: i think there's at least one person who has seen phosphenes in here | 12:02 |
| archels | kanzure: I listened to an interesting talk from a guy from Rutgers today. He claimed that these phosphenes originate in the retina, even if the electrodes are positioned over visual/posterior areas | 12:48 |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:07 | |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-152.flip.co.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:09 | |
| -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] | 13:34 | |
| kanzure | archels: i find it hard to believe that stimulating the visual cortex layers would not cause visual artifacts | 13:38 |
| -!- upgrayeddd [uid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qbpevddunpqrpfbp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] | 14:13 | |
| -!- superkuh [~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh] has quit [Quit: the neuronal action potential is an electrical manipulation of reversible abrupt phase changes in the lipid bilayer] | 14:41 | |
| -!- jonathan___ [~jonathan@wsip-70-167-73-242.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] | 14:55 | |
| -!- jonathan__ [~jonathan@wsip-70-167-73-242.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:57 | |
| -!- randalla1ordon is now known as randallagordon | 15:02 | |
| -!- yorick [~yorick@oftn/member/yorick] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 15:18 | |
| -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[xp] | 15:38 | |
| -!- phillyj [~Thunderbi@c-68-80-251-160.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:43 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abetusk@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:59 | |
| -!- Burninate [~Burn@pool-108-18-159-219.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] | 16:00 | |
| -!- phillyj [~Thunderbi@c-68-80-251-160.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: phillyj] | 16:03 | |
| -!- Sanky [~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] | 16:04 | |
| -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 16:07 | |
| kanzure | jonathan__: hi | 16:12 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 16:14 | |
| -!- chido [chidori@pasky.or.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:21 | |
| -!- Sanky [~SankyZNC@unaffiliated/sanky] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:34 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:36 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:36 | |
| -!- EnLilaSko [EnLilaSko@unaffiliated/enlilasko] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 16:39 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@204-16-157-18-static.ipnetworksinc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 16:40 | |
| -!- sivoais [~zaki@unaffiliated/sivoais] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:02 | |
| -!- randallagordon [~randall@71-38-140-244.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 17:13 | |
| -!- randallagordon [~randall@71-34-75-33.ptld.qwest.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:15 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abe@cpe-24-58-232-122.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:15 | |
| jonathan__ | what's the stanford syn bio lab up to these days? | 18:13 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:22 | |
| kanzure | jonathan__: no idea | 18:39 |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:39 | |
| kanzure | yashgaroth: hi | 18:39 |
| kanzure | klafka: are you back in the bay area? | 18:39 |
| yashgaroth | yo | 18:39 |
| jonathan__ | drew lab still working on biobricks as far as I know | 18:40 |
| jonathan__ | or at least, their version of biobricks which work, as opposed to the normal one | 18:40 |
| kanzure | when Juul shows up in here you should ask him | 18:42 |
| kanzure | since he works for drew | 18:42 |
| -!- jonathan__ [~jonathan@wsip-70-167-73-242.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 18:43 | |
| -!- jonathan__ [~jonathan@wsip-70-167-73-242.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:44 | |
| -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] | 18:47 | |
| kanzure | jonathan__: dunno if you saw my last two messages, http://gnusha.org/logs/2013-06-26.log | 18:48 |
| klafka | kanzure: yeah | 18:54 |
| jonathan__ | oh, ok | 18:56 |
| jonathan__ | the carlsbad lab has some interesting things going on | 19:01 |
| jonathan__ | today there were 8 or 9 police squad cars with K9 unit outside | 19:01 |
| jonathan__ | Gotta wonder what those dogs were sniffing for | 19:01 |
| yashgaroth | like, directly outside? they like to do training around there | 19:02 |
| yashgaroth | or someone tipped them off to my massive grow op inside | 19:02 |
| kanzure | i dunno why smugglers don't use drug dogs more often. you can have a dog run a test over your car. wont work for false-negatives, but at least you would be able to optimize the case of the police using drug dogs. | 19:02 |
| gradstudentbot | That's the control group, right? | 19:02 |
| kanzure | .botsnack +4 | 19:03 |
| yoleaux | :D | 19:03 |
| jonathan__ | because the dogs are corrupt and some studies show that the cops are directing the dogs to give false-positives? | 19:03 |
| jonathan__ | yes directly outside, surrounding the building | 19:03 |
| brownies | .meow | 19:03 |
| yoleaux | http://moar.edgecats.net/cats/tumblr_lz0dvhxgRf1rp5nqgo1_400.gif | 19:03 |
| kanzure | no, as a drug smuggler you would want your car to pass or something, so you would run drug dogs against your car for a test, and my point about false-negatives was that the dogs might not be well-trained enough, which doesn't tell you whether or not your car passed. | 19:04 |
| jonathan__ | well drug smuggling ops just assume that a certain % will get captured anyway, the cost of doing business, so no need to bother with that. plenty of profits from what gets thru. | 19:05 |
| yashgaroth | did you like go by to feed your kombucha and saw the cops and just u-turned back onto faraday? | 19:05 |
| jonathan__ | my kombucha is probably dead, I cant believe no one can keep the lab open | 19:06 |
| jonathan__ | and this nonworking operation about the keys, wth | 19:07 |
| jonathan__ | I give it 2 more weeks then I'm abandoning the whole thing on account of the mismanagement | 19:07 |
| jonathan__ | it's been several months and they could have charged $50 a month for people by now, with temporary agreements | 19:08 |
| kanzure | see, you have the opposite reaction of jojack | 19:08 |
| kanzure | your reaction is to call it quits | 19:08 |
| jonathan__ | yet compaining there's no money in the till | 19:08 |
| kanzure | jojack's reaction is to stick with it for 10 years while complaining | 19:08 |
| jonathan__ | my reaction is to go elsewhere | 19:08 |
| brownies | is this that biospace? | 19:08 |
| brownies | or whatever it's called | 19:08 |
| kanzure | biotechnbeyond | 19:08 |
| brownies | The Place That Had No Customers | 19:08 |
| kanzure | i think membership fees is the wrong structure | 19:08 |
| brownies | And Didn't Know How To Price Anything | 19:09 |
| gradstudentbot | No, you can't borrow my pipette. | 19:09 |
| jonathan__ | sure, membership fees are the wrong structire long term | 19:09 |
| kanzure | how about this: i pay for my own lab, and then i use it. | 19:09 |
| kanzure | it seems really simple to me | 19:09 |
| jonathan__ | short term, they could be colleting cash, to use for actually buying a bench or two or whatever generic supplies | 19:09 |
| jonathan__ | the idea is to share equip and reagent cost. simple idea. | 19:09 |
| jonathan__ | I believe they could have had real experiments running by now | 19:10 |
| jonathan__ | sure, a bunch of random hacker experiments | 19:10 |
| jonathan__ | at least it would be used for something, then later with real contracts, kick the hackers out and start from the foundation | 19:10 |
| jonathan__ | it's called: startup | 19:10 |
| jonathan__ | i've never been at a startup where people "leave early cause I've been here all day" | 19:11 |
| jonathan__ | what? | 19:11 |
| jonathan__ | dude, at a startup, YOU'RE THERE ALL DAY lol | 19:11 |
| kanzure | i am presently being paid by a startup and i leave exactly at 8 hours | 19:11 |
| jonathan__ | you're a contractor, you're supposed to work per bill | 19:11 |
| jonathan__ | those with equity are assumed to work like dogs, for the payoff | 19:12 |
| klafka | i left early today at my startup | 19:12 |
| kanzure | not in a healthy relationship | 19:12 |
| kanzure | most people understand that the equity is worthless | 19:12 |
| klafka | jonathan__: have you worked at a startup? all the ones I've been to have been pretty reasonable by and large | 19:12 |
| jonathan__ | it depends | 19:12 |
| klafka | except when shit breaks down | 19:12 |
| jonathan__ | I ahve worked at several startups | 19:13 |
| klafka | it seems like the 'omg work 20hrs a day drink mt dew and eat ramen' startups are all like yc startups that have like 5 people | 19:13 |
| jonathan__ | if you dont meet the deadline, company is dead, period, there's no "well I'll do that tomorrow" | 19:13 |
| kanzure | in general, startups can't work you raw anymore because they know you have options when it comes to your employment | 19:14 |
| kanzure | also, the chances are good that you started your own company anyway, so it doesn't matter | 19:14 |
| klafka | kanzure: are you in the bay now | 19:15 |
| jonathan__ | there's a difference between normal employees and hungry employees. | 19:15 |
| kanzure | anyway, the point is that you should leave if you are being manpussied into working 14 hour days | 19:15 |
| kanzure | klafka: yeah, i'm in san jose for another week or something | 19:15 |
| klafka | oh cool! | 19:15 |
| klafka | are you going to get up to sf? | 19:15 |
| kanzure | i think i already was and you missed it | 19:16 |
| kanzure | maybe i will go again | 19:16 |
| jonathan__ | I'd guess that the startups you guys have seen are really diluted equity. not like 2-5% share | 19:18 |
| jonathan__ | .01% of ownership is not real ownership | 19:19 |
| jonathan__ | also I guess acquisition market is mostly dead so probably doesnt matter | 19:19 |
| klafka | oh | 19:19 |
| klafka | yeah | 19:19 |
| kanzure | sure 2% approaches where actual work is reasonable | 19:19 |
| klafka | like all the startups i've ever been at have given me like a couple basis points | 19:20 |
| kanzure | but you don't see that sort of equity offer often, even employee #1 is lucky to see 3% | 19:20 |
| kanzure | (which is dumb) | 19:20 |
| heath | what has happened to seqify | 19:23 |
| heath | they were up just a few months ago | 19:23 |
| klafka | jonathan__: when were you seeing that out of curiosity? | 19:23 |
| klafka | like in the last bubble? | 19:23 |
| jonathan__ | couple years ago when joining semi company just prior to ipo, 90% of engineer staff was expected to work >10 hrs a day, average was probably around 12-13 hrs per day, tho in this company, it was obviously H1B abuse of immigrants | 19:25 |
| jonathan__ | that means: get to office at 9am, work until 1030pm, 1 hr lunch and 30 min dinner | 19:26 |
| klafka | wow | 19:27 |
| jonathan__ | one engineer was known for working to 1am regularly | 19:27 |
| klafka | i would be like f that | 19:27 |
| klafka | the worst i had i was doing support engineering at my last place and it was super understaffedand we were expected to work on weekends some and i told them i wouldn't | 19:28 |
| klafka | and i sometimes put in 10hr days | 19:28 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: there's no reason to work those hours. at all. unless they are paying you 3-4x market rate, maybe.. | 19:28 |
| jonathan__ | most startups have lower salaries, not higher | 19:29 |
| kanzure | that doesn't mean you should accept lower salaries | 19:29 |
| klafka | they may have lower salaries than like goog/fb/twitter | 19:30 |
| klafka | but they have pretty decent salaries | 19:30 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year. | 19:30 |
| jonathan__ | the basic rule is this: let the people who get the job done, get the job done. i.e. get out of their way | 19:30 |
| jonathan__ | google has lower salaries, or had, from what I understood | 19:31 |
| klafka | well i guess i only have glassdoor and hn to go on | 19:31 |
| klafka | but it seems like they get quite well compensated | 19:31 |
| kanzure | google pays significantly more according to my pile of anecdotal data that i got a few weeks ago | 19:31 |
| jonathan__ | i dont think the reporting on those sites is accurate.... | 19:31 |
| kanzure | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5802295 | 19:31 |
| klafka | yah people were saying like 250k regularly for google | 19:31 |
| kanzure | yeah, glassdoor reports lower salaries for google | 19:32 |
| kanzure | but that could be anyone working for google-- college grads, etc. | 19:32 |
| kanzure | *fresh college grads | 19:32 |
| jonathan__ | ok so right now I make 120k. when I got that, the recruiter had a hard time finding anything above it. | 19:32 |
| kanzure | when did you get it? | 19:32 |
| jonathan__ | I heard one company might consider 150k in LA, for some medical comapny, as the sole software engineer, i.e. owner of all linux stuff | 19:32 |
| kanzure | dude btw you can make way the fuck more than that, just in terms of your output | 19:32 |
| jonathan__ | 2 years ago | 19:33 |
| kanzure | 2 years the market was pretty hot.. well, for software. | 19:33 |
| jonathan__ | I hear qualcomm is offering more now | 19:33 |
| kanzure | strangely, i heard the same thing. but i heard it in a small town in the middle of nowhere in texas, so i wrote it off as maybe false. | 19:34 |
| jonathan__ | tough to get people to state their numbers but one friend who was doing hiring said he was trying to compete with some companies (ie qualcomm) offering 140k-150k but that also included niche like security clearance maybe | 19:34 |
| kanzure | someone was working at qualcomm for the first time, some college student. anyway.. | 19:34 |
| kanzure | qualcomm requires security clearances? | 19:34 |
| kanzure | oh, nevermind. i see. | 19:34 |
| jonathan__ | I didnt get the details. it's possible. | 19:34 |
| kanzure | you had prior employment, right? | 19:35 |
| -!- rk[xp] is now known as ryankarason | 19:35 | |
| jonathan__ | what I see in reality is this: some guys get projects at high salaries but dont work full time for full year so in reality their annual rate is lower. | 19:35 |
| kanzure | (i can't remember) | 19:35 |
| jonathan__ | I had one acquaintance claim he was making $220k | 19:36 |
| jonathan__ | drill deeper into the facts and turns out he only worked 4 mos for that year. so ... totally false measure. | 19:36 |
| bkero | Not completely unheard of | 19:36 |
| kanzure | doing embedded? | 19:36 |
| kanzure | what's wrong with making $220k in 4 months? | 19:36 |
| kanzure | you have very high standards! | 19:36 |
| bkero | Oh, I was assuming $220k in a year. | 19:36 |
| jonathan__ | nothing wrong with it, it's great, but when filling a survey or bragging, the comparative measure is vs. full year, not "big chunk in short time" | 19:37 |
| jonathan__ | So in reality he was making what. less than $120k per year. | 19:37 |
| jonathan__ | i.e. he couldnt fill subsequent contracts at $220k so was unemployed. | 19:37 |
| jonathan__ | nothing wrong with that. just false statistics. | 19:38 |
| kanzure | so, i'm not completely up on the hardware market, but in the software market if you have more than 2 years of experience it's easy to nail more than 120k. | 19:38 |
| kanzure | the downside is that you would be working with things like ruby, perl, objective c, or even javascript | 19:39 |
| jonathan__ | cool, new announcement for carlsbad lab: "We are in the lab every day now and hope you can join us in shifts to assist in the final set up needed before the unveiling event July 12th. " | 19:39 |
| kanzure | do you have a key? | 19:39 |
| jonathan__ | no | 19:40 |
| kanzure | worst space ever | 19:40 |
| jonathan__ | I have not taken the extra effort to figure out how to get one | 19:40 |
| jonathan__ | i.e., if it were a real space I wouldn't have to reverse engineer access. | 19:40 |
| kanzure | just upload an image of a key here http://shloosl.com/ | 19:41 |
| kanzure | (yes i'm lame and don't pick all my locks..) | 19:41 |
| jonathan__ | really | 19:41 |
| jonathan__ | well it's not a house key - it's a business door key | 19:41 |
| kanzure | easier than writing a script to copy a key yourself | 19:41 |
| jonathan__ | the service may or may not handle that | 19:41 |
| kanzure | i mean, the imaging stuff | 19:41 |
| kanzure | sure | 19:41 |
| jonathan__ | "why not just 3D print keys" | 19:42 |
| kanzure | i have zero experience with them. just fyi. | 19:42 |
| jonathan__ | oh I know, cause those repraps dont really work for sh* | 19:42 |
| yashgaroth | why not just 3d-print an entire lab | 19:42 |
| kanzure | those repraps work for +- 1 cm tolerance i think | 19:42 |
| jonathan__ | i'll 3d print YOUR MOM | 19:42 |
| jonathan__ | looks like I'll have to get a high flyin job in palo alto and make the big buckz! | 19:43 |
| yashgaroth | "oh man we can't do meetings on the weekends, people have stuff going on...let's meet at 1 pm on a fucking weekday I'm sure no one's busy then" | 19:44 |
| jonathan__ | yes you nailed it | 19:44 |
| jonathan__ | never happen at a startup | 19:44 |
| jonathan__ | the message would be: "we are going to cram on saturday and expect you to be here" | 19:45 |
| yashgaroth | well usually at a startup people don't have other full-time jobs | 19:45 |
| jonathan__ | sure they do! | 19:45 |
| jonathan__ | at least before the co. is formed | 19:45 |
| jonathan__ | that's the "incubate" part! | 19:45 |
| yashgaroth | startups also have equity and shit | 19:45 |
| kanzure | nah these days they want you on-site at the incubator. you know, for "physical presence" and "culture". | 19:46 |
| jonathan__ | so could the lab. it could easily draft a fake type of "equity" in terms of future lab hours | 19:46 |
| jonathan__ | or lab space | 19:46 |
| jonathan__ | and then completely steal it back later, as per normal business ethics | 19:46 |
| kanzure | you mean "dilute" | 19:46 |
| jonathan__ | yes in a word | 19:47 |
| kanzure | i think even glowing plant (for all of its problems) proves that by-project is better | 19:47 |
| jonathan__ | well anyway there's plenty of ways to get around it. yet current staff complains about no chump change money or this or that. | 19:47 |
| yashgaroth | like I get that they want a "no take backsies" clause on donated equipment b/c of babak, but if it all goes to shit I want my stuff back | 19:47 |
| jonathan__ | that's the real topic of the day | 19:48 |
| jonathan__ | what's the absolute easiest bio project with most glam appeal to rake in fake money on indie funding sites | 19:48 |
| kanzure | different people have different tolerances of "going to shit", so that's problematic | 19:48 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: they dumped in $10k into that project on kickstarter the minute the project was posted. it was rigged. | 19:48 |
| yashgaroth | the money's real, the project can be as fake as you like...fuck it, glowing cats | 19:48 |
| kanzure | "look at our 'momentum'! $10k in 30 seconds, wow." etc | 19:49 |
| yashgaroth | exponential! | 19:49 |
| jonathan__ | nah the project should be acheivable | 19:49 |
| jonathan__ | so the scam can continue next time | 19:49 |
| jonathan__ | why poison the well? | 19:50 |
| yashgaroth | anything achievable has been done, pretty much | 19:50 |
| kanzure | why drink from the well? what if you just pay for your own projects. | 19:50 |
| jonathan__ | pff, that's what they said about smart phones before iphone came out | 19:50 |
| jonathan__ | hey $300k of free money is nothing to sneeze at | 19:50 |
| yashgaroth | iphone didn't do anything new except be expensive and shiny, but yes you're right | 19:50 |
| kanzure | it did html apps at first | 19:51 |
| kanzure | which was, in fact, new | 19:51 |
| jonathan__ | um without going into details, the iphone completely changed the market | 19:51 |
| yashgaroth | gah fine whatever | 19:51 |
| jonathan__ | not to mention unix in your pocket. dude. | 19:51 |
| jonathan__ | "HEY BABY, check out this unix... in my pocket.." | 19:51 |
| jonathan__ | "wow, it's so.... SMALL" | 19:51 |
| yashgaroth | that's just the kernel, girl | 19:52 |
| jonathan__ | HAHA | 19:52 |
| jonathan__ | "wait till you see my apps" | 19:52 |
| jonathan__ | microsoft always pulls that stuff. "we had a tablet first". yea but no one bought it cause it was uber lame. | 19:53 |
| jonathan__ | anyways | 19:53 |
| gradstudentbot | I am busy researching. | 19:53 |
| yashgaroth | we could do some hip new version of something, but it'd need to be 20 years old because patents | 19:53 |
| jonathan__ | meanwhile, gradstudentbot has to go into the lab every 6 hrs to feed her adherent cells. | 19:53 |
| gradstudentbot | Someone's sitting at my bench space. | 19:54 |
| jonathan__ | ellington lab had some very simple novel stuff going on with rna | 19:54 |
| jonathan__ | totally patentable, not 20 yrs old, and not so difficult technically speaking | 19:55 |
| kanzure | how about a typical dna synthesis machine? | 19:55 |
| yashgaroth | is it marketable to kickstarter suckers? | 19:55 |
| kanzure | not a microfluidic dna synthesis device | 19:56 |
| kanzure | just something that can be developed for 5-25k in parts | 19:56 |
| kanzure | i bet it would end up being less than 5k, of course | 19:56 |
| yashgaroth | surely you remember my warnings about LE and dna synthesis | 19:56 |
| kanzure | which LE | 19:56 |
| yashgaroth | law enforcement, sorry | 19:57 |
| jonathan__ | nothing microfluidic will get any nods from those who know | 19:57 |
| kanzure | i don't care about microfluidic (for the purposes of this conversation) | 19:57 |
| jonathan__ | apparently no one is very interested in synthesis | 19:57 |
| kanzure | cambrian genomics seems interested | 19:57 |
| kanzure | it could be some plated/wells/arrays, or even just something more directly copied from an existing design | 19:58 |
| kanzure | e.g. reverse engineer something that works (buy some crap from ebay) | 19:58 |
| jonathan__ | I bet cloning/growing extinct odd mammals would get great funding | 19:58 |
| kanzure | most of the dna synthesizers on the market are actually from the 80s and 90s because nobody makes them anymore, not really. | 19:58 |
| kanzure | and the companies sued each other and cannibalized each other through mergers | 19:58 |
| yashgaroth | the oligo ladder method might work and doesn't need microfluidics, but that's a lot of r&d | 19:58 |
| kanzure | i'm not talking about anything that requires r&d | 19:59 |
| kanzure | well, maybe development i guess | 19:59 |
| kanzure | i imagine it would take less than 5 bugfixing prototypes to make something that works | 19:59 |
| yashgaroth | not even prototypes, just different reaction conditions...oh and the 16,000 oligos you'd have to order | 19:59 |
| kanzure | well, it wouldn't be from a library | 20:00 |
| kanzure | modern dna synthesis machines don't necessarily work from a library | 20:00 |
| kanzure | i'm just talking the bare minimal stupid design of a dna synthesis machine | 20:00 |
| yashgaroth | that'd be some dude with a bunch of bottles | 20:00 |
| kanzure | squirting phospholiquids into tubes and such | 20:00 |
| kanzure | it's not that many bottles. have you seen these machines? | 20:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pharmacia-Biotech-OligoProcess-System-DNA-Synthesizer-LINEAR-FLOW-THROUGH-/160922045880?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2577b38db8 | 20:01 |
| yashgaroth | 4 bases, wash, deprotect...yeah ok | 20:01 |
| jonathan__ | I forgot to add to the salary discussion, an old coworker hinted I could get 150k if he hired me for firmware development. | 20:01 |
| kanzure | http://www.ebay.com/itm/3806-Millipore-Biosearch-8700-DNA-Synthesizer-/280726511487?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item415c9a9f7f | 20:01 |
| jonathan__ | bryan what's preventing others from building the same machine? | 20:02 |
| kanzure | nothing! why would i want to prevent that? | 20:02 |
| jonathan__ | that means: why isnt anyone else pursuing the idea | 20:02 |
| kanzure | it's not an investment, it's a functional tool that i need | 20:03 |
| kanzure | because nobody else has crazy projects like i do? | 20:03 |
| jonathan__ | doubtful | 20:03 |
| kanzure | they are all institutionalized | 20:03 |
| jonathan__ | smart people all see the same problems | 20:03 |
| kanzure | that doesn't mean they are in a position to act | 20:03 |
| kanzure | kids, family, mortgage, being broke, who knows | 20:03 |
| jonathan__ | what are the technology or business barriers | 20:04 |
| kanzure | dunno about making it into a business- sounds nice, but not a top priority until the device is mostly working | 20:04 |
| jonathan__ | that means: for other people, what is preventing them from making this business | 20:04 |
| kanzure | technology barriers: there's a lot of wash steps and chemical/plasitc compatibilities that need to be checked | 20:04 |
| kanzure | *plastic | 20:04 |
| kanzure | it's not a business (not yet) | 20:05 |
| kanzure | it was just a project, right? | 20:05 |
| jonathan__ | maybe because there is no demand for such a device, ie low volume | 20:05 |
| kanzure | why would i want demand? if it's my own personal tool, i can do whatever i want for myself. | 20:05 |
| jonathan__ | high dev cost, only a handful of customers in the world | 20:05 |
| kanzure | i don't think the cost is that high | 20:05 |
| jonathan__ | because the topic was projects for kickstarter lol... that means priority is on what other people want | 20:06 |
| kanzure | 1000 hours of engineering time can make a pretty good start | 20:06 |
| kanzure | oh, for a kickstarter project. why? am i lacking money? | 20:06 |
| kanzure | but yeah, i think people would buy a cheap dna synthesis machine. around the $500-$2k range. | 20:07 |
| jonathan__ | like everyone is buying a 3d printer today too (sarcasm) | 20:07 |
| kanzure | how do you explain makerbot's sales figures? | 20:07 |
| kanzure | 20k printers sold in 2012.. not too bad. | 20:08 |
| jonathan__ | I guess it's relative | 20:08 |
| kanzure | yeah nobody is claiming a 3d printer in every pocket | 20:09 |
| kanzure | unlike qualcomm's unfathomable goals | 20:09 |
| yashgaroth | I've seen people claim that...well, every house anyway | 20:09 |
| kanzure | those people are wrong :) | 20:09 |
| yashgaroth | well, yes | 20:09 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: so, besides my own personal benefit, i think a working, cheap dna synthesis machine would also be useful for others in the diybio scene. such as yashgaroth, ParahSai1in, cathal, etc. | 20:10 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: i also think that what's preventing others is possibly a focus on commercial machine design, which is problematic because you can't as easily get developers to sign on unless you have millions | 20:12 |
| jonathan__ | "LIfe Technologies is seeking a Software Solutions Architect. The selected candidate will be tasked with overall software and systems architecture and design for strategic projects and initiatives related to product development and key business processes. The successful candidate will lead technical teams, create design deliverables, participate in development, and partner with project management to ensure effective implement | 20:12 |
| jonathan__ | and adoption. Key technologies include cutting-edge cloud computing services, scientific instrument embedded systems, web software development, middleware architectures, purpose-build databases and data stores, mobile technologies, and custom analytics. " | 20:12 |
| kanzure | s/commercial/proprietary | 20:12 |
| kanzure | (commercial is compatible with open source, obv. i meant proprietary..) | 20:12 |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@103-9-42-152.flip.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 20:12 | |
| jonathan__ | yes, biz model sometimes kills innovation | 20:13 |
| klafka | heh life technologies isn't that the people who own ABI ? | 20:13 |
| kanzure | hah that job quote is funny, i think i know the guy who is currently in that role at life technologies | 20:13 |
| yashgaroth | they own a lot of stuff | 20:13 |
| klafka | i really hate how to do anything cool in comp bio / bioinformatics you have to have a phd :( | 20:13 |
| kanzure | why do you need a phd? | 20:13 |
| kanzure | just do those things man | 20:13 |
| klafka | i mean companies want them | 20:13 |
| klafka | to higher you | 20:13 |
| kanzure | hire | 20:13 |
| klafka | sorry | 20:14 |
| klafka | yes hire | 20:14 |
| klafka | heh | 20:14 |
| jonathan__ | Supposedly my resume got to the pres at life tech. guess they didn't like it that day lol | 20:14 |
| klafka | past few hours have been a blur of organization for dancesafe | 20:14 |
| jonathan__ | correction, vp engineering, must have been | 20:14 |
| jonathan__ | "Strong architectural and software design experience is a must. Strong knowledge of OOD and Java is a must. Knowledge of Eclipse is a must. Experience in designing and implementation of mobile software and embedded systems is a must. Experience with JEE, C/C++, Oracle, MySQL and other databases is a strong plus. " | 20:15 |
| kanzure | i've seen other open source projects go up on kickstarter. they don't all have to be pre-startup projects. | 20:15 |
| jonathan__ | probably because I dont to that stuff | 20:15 |
| kanzure | gosh, why would you want to work somewhere that wants eclipse and oracle | 20:15 |
| jonathan__ | interview answer: "yeah I'd just put it in the cloud" | 20:15 |
| jonathan__ | "Experience with Hibernate, Spring, Service Oriented Architecture, scalable SOAP web services, security architecture. A working experience or knowledge of OSGI and Modularity is a strong plus. | 20:16 |
| jonathan__ | Experience with entity relationship data modeling as well as designing, optimization and troubleshooting databases is a strong plus. " | 20:16 |
| kanzure | spring is at the heart of java territory (for web things, at least) | 20:16 |
| jonathan__ | interview answer: "Yeah I'd just use SOAP for that." | 20:16 |
| jonathan__ | "I'd use SOAP and put it in the cloud." | 20:16 |
| kanzure | you can also get bonus points for saying "RPC" in the same sentence as "SOAP". | 20:16 |
| jonathan__ | "I'd make a soapy cloud. Then turn on my LAMP." | 20:17 |
| klafka | LOL | 20:17 |
| kanzure | anyway, it sounds like they don't know what they want, or they are using really enterprisey stuff for no good reason | 20:17 |
| kanzure | the reality is that their machines are actually python+django | 20:17 |
| kanzure | which is hilarious | 20:17 |
| jonathan__ | "Must be proficient in multi-threading, client-server communications, data serialization, compression and encryption, GUI development. Experience with multi-core, signal processing, embedded and real-time software is a strong plus. " | 20:17 |
| jonathan__ | Interview non-answer: "Oh I am very familiar with cereals, I had some this morning before the interview." | 20:18 |
| kanzure | GUI development too? hah | 20:18 |
| jonathan__ | basically no guy will satisfy that list of stuff... | 20:18 |
| jonathan__ | "Experience with cloud-based IaaS services and traditional infrastructure technologies including LAN/WAN, SAN/NAS, and server hardware technologies. " | 20:18 |
| jonathan__ | see, cloud, I told ya | 20:18 |
| jonathan__ | "Let's call it SaaS but it's a lab so wait, that makes it LaaS !!" | 20:19 |
| jonathan__ | ? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | well, i can nail all of those requirements except oracle at the moment. also my signal processing is weak. | 20:19 |
| jonathan__ | real time embedded? Umm | 20:19 |
| kanzure | also i wouldn't want to actually use eclipse | 20:19 |
| kanzure | yes, i have written real-time things. -_- | 20:19 |
| jonathan__ | when was the last time you wrote an rtos? | 20:19 |
| kanzure | you are not the only person capable of reading whitesheets yo | 20:20 |
| jonathan__ | "Experience with a formal software development methodology such as the Rational Unified Process or Agile is required. " | 20:20 |
| gradstudentbot | I could never be a PI. | 20:20 |
| klafka | a gave that gave a talk at pydata on disco was from life | 20:20 |
| jonathan__ | "yes we use Agile only here. we don't even have schedules." | 20:20 |
| klafka | haha | 20:20 |
| klafka | we're so agile we make tests as we think of them | 20:21 |
| kanzure | "why test today what can fail tomorrow?" | 20:21 |
| kanzure | maybe i have that backwards | 20:21 |
| jonathan__ | "I'd make a SOAP multi-threaded signal processing real time event driven statistical data OSGI framework which operates via cloud based Oracle through NAS" | 20:22 |
| jonathan__ | ok, hired! | 20:22 |
| kanzure | you forgot CUDA things | 20:22 |
| kanzure | and to turn it into an eclipse plugin | 20:22 |
| jonathan__ | why eclipse is even here I dont know | 20:22 |
| klafka | ugh | 20:22 |
| klafka | so much java | 20:22 |
| jonathan__ | that's like saying "Must be able to use Notepad" | 20:23 |
| kanzure | no | 20:23 |
| kanzure | nobody in their right mind would choose eclipse these days | 20:23 |
| klafka | it's the programmers equivalent of 'must be profficient in ms office' | 20:23 |
| klafka | google is even dropping eclipse | 20:23 |
| jonathan__ | Umm | 20:23 |
| kanzure | intellij is supposed to be ok, but really you should just be using whatever text editor you prefer in the first place (emacs, vim, sublime, etc.) | 20:23 |
| jonathan__ | infineon's latest SDK uses eclipse of course, for code generation | 20:23 |
| jonathan__ | and so does TI's | 20:23 |
| kanzure | yes, because they are bad people | 20:23 |
| jonathan__ | uhh | 20:24 |
| jonathan__ | on the flip side, microchip uses netbeans! | 20:24 |
| jonathan__ | go microchip! | 20:24 |
| klafka | man i may have to write some java soon | 20:24 |
| klafka | it's been soo long | 20:24 |
| jonathan__ | I hate java | 20:24 |
| klafka | as do I | 20:24 |
| jonathan__ | I wrote some java stuff and every five minutes was thinking: "this is lame, this is backwards" | 20:25 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, but his project was so easy. | 20:25 |
| jonathan__ | then again I dont like GUI programming anyway | 20:25 |
| jonathan__ | btw what's the best python GUI? | 20:26 |
| jonathan__ | qt? | 20:26 |
| klafka | probably pyqt | 20:26 |
| klafka | i haven't really done gui programming much since i'm a data person <_< | 20:26 |
| jonathan__ | how about we all conspire to work at life technologies then take over their R&D? | 20:27 |
| jonathan__ | then, build a dna synthesizer | 20:27 |
| klafka | for the masses | 20:27 |
| jonathan__ | oh no, not for the masses. for bryan's use only. | 20:27 |
| jonathan__ | and oh yea, it makes toast. | 20:27 |
| klafka | god i keep trying to run this java LDA implementation and it keeps running out of JVM memory | 20:28 |
| klafka | fucking java jvm | 20:28 |
| klafka | i don't want to spin up a new instance right now | 20:28 |
| jonathan__ | "Software Developers: Join the Life Technologies Cloud Computing Team" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGUPG80CExo | 20:30 |
| jonathan__ | well at least they know how to spend six figures on a marketing video.. | 20:36 |
| -!- helleshin [~talinck@69-61-156-24.ubr1.dyn.lebanon-oh.fuse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 20:36 | |
| yashgaroth | their products are about as good as any other big supplier's, so the competition lies in who spends the most on ads | 20:38 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node59.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:38 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node59.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] | 20:38 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:38 | |
| jonathan__ | my next job will be in hr. cuter girls there. | 20:39 |
| jonathan__ | who wants to hang around engineers all day. | 20:39 |
| yashgaroth | if you're into the 40+ I guess | 20:39 |
| jonathan__ | oh. way to kill my dreams, mr. fancy pants | 20:40 |
| kanzure | fyi brownies is mr fancypants in here | 20:40 |
| kanzure | you'll have to call yashgaroth something else | 20:40 |
| jonathan__ | next you're gonna tell me I can't sleep my way to the top. | 20:41 |
| yashgaroth | only one way to find out | 20:42 |
| kanzure | why would you want to work for life technologies, making a dna synthesizer, i mean? i don't think they even do synthesis. | 20:43 |
| kanzure | and even if they did, you would do all the work for like zero upside. | 20:43 |
| jonathan__ | brewing kombucha is a far superior business. | 20:47 |
| jonathan__ | ever meet a microbrewer who was disliked by cute girls? | 20:47 |
| gradstudentbot | Nobody has tried this before. | 20:48 |
| jonathan__ | oh, many men have, ms. gradstudentbot | 20:48 |
| kanzure | you broke it | 20:49 |
| jonathan__ | it? | 20:50 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot is a bot | 20:50 |
| gradstudentbot | God, why won't they just kick me out. | 20:50 |
| jonathan__ | it's crass to refer to the female students as bots, mr. roll to save insanity | 20:51 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot: | 20:53 |
| gradstudentbot | I am writing the abstract. | 20:53 |
| -!- pads [~not@100.43.114.90] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:54 | |
| abetusk | is gradstudentbot really a bot? | 20:54 |
| gradstudentbot | We were out of the right dye, so I just used an equivalent. | 20:54 |
| abetusk | gradstudentbot, what is your thesis? | 20:55 |
| gradstudentbot | The protocol is wrong. | 20:55 |
| kanzure | a brilliant thesis | 20:55 |
| kanzure | yes, gradstudentbot is an irc bot | 20:55 |
| gradstudentbot | I got in around 11. | 20:55 |
| jonathan__ | dude grad students don't like being called bots | 20:55 |
| abetusk | gradstudentbot, how's the research coming? | 20:55 |
| gradstudentbot | Yeah, I'm a 4th year. No wait, I'm a 6th year. | 20:55 |
| jonathan__ | it's really rude | 20:55 |
| abetusk | hilarious | 20:55 |
| jonathan__ | even though it's true | 20:55 |
| abetusk | you have a bunch of canned answers? | 20:55 |
| kanzure | it's based on this: | 20:55 |
| kanzure | .title http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovEghdXC4tE | 20:56 |
| yoleaux | Shit Graduate Students Say - YouTube | 20:56 |
| -!- padz [~not@100.43.114.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 20:56 | |
| klafka | grad students dont' get a choice in what they're called! | 20:57 |
| abetusk | it just picks one of the pre-canned lines when it's name is mentioned? It doesn't try and relate to the conversation at all? | 20:58 |
| kanzure | it's completely random. | 20:58 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot: right? | 20:58 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm glad you brought that up, I'm going to do that right now. | 20:58 |
| abetusk | gradstudentbot, you should totally use an arduino! | 20:58 |
| gradstudentbot | I got in around 11. | 20:58 |
| abetusk | and sometimes it just randomely spits out a line? | 20:59 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot is constantly working, yeah | 20:59 |
| gradstudentbot | I'm glad you brought that up, I'm going to do that right now. | 20:59 |
| kanzure | gradstudentbot: you can't say the same line that soon! | 21:00 |
| gradstudentbot | The grant got rejected. | 21:00 |
| jonathan__ | you should have seen the emails going back & forth about carlsbad lab possible demos | 21:00 |
| jonathan__ | freaking crazy ideas that would never get done or even half put together | 21:01 |
| jonathan__ | completely reminded me of being in a grad student lab. | 21:01 |
| yashgaroth | we're still going ahead with differentiating beating heart cells right? | 21:01 |
| jonathan__ | "oh yea, so now I remember why I didnt go to grad school" | 21:01 |
| jonathan__ | yeah, totally | 21:01 |
| jonathan__ | I'm so working on that already with ms. gradstudentbot. | 21:02 |
| gradstudentbot | I think the centrifuge is broken. | 21:02 |
| yashgaroth | oh god what if the digital chart recorder is the only demo | 21:02 |
| jonathan__ | because anyway even though it fails, gradstudentbot is kind of cute | 21:02 |
| gradstudentbot | No, you can't borrow my pipette. | 21:02 |
| jonathan__ | what if the kombucha is the only friggin demo, dude. then I hope gradstudentbot wears the bikini I insisted on | 21:02 |
| gradstudentbot | I hope they kick me out. | 21:02 |
| yashgaroth | let's just get jojack to wear a miniskirt, that'll generate all the word-of-mouth we need | 21:03 |
| jonathan__ | what kind of statement would it be, if it didn't? | 21:05 |
| jonathan__ | "yeah you remember that lab? when gradstudentbot wore a bikini and jojack wore a kilt? and they still didn't get any kickstarter funds?" | 21:05 |
| gradstudentbot | I am writing the abstract. | 21:05 |
| yashgaroth | where the shit is the indiegogo or whatever? are they waiting to film a crowd of confused tipsy people from the opening? | 21:06 |
| jonathan__ | damn I tell ya, they could have turned the lab into crossfit training center for 4 mos and collected $100/mo from 30-40 people | 21:06 |
| yashgaroth | 'do one rep of lifting this tissue culture hood into place' | 21:06 |
| jonathan__ | obviously the demo needs laserz | 21:07 |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:07 | |
| jonathan__ | I was going to put my circuitboard into a clear acrylic box for the demo, now I think I will put it in a black plastic box, and go into crazy detail about how complex it was to do | 21:08 |
| yashgaroth | let's pour a bunch of chemlights into a spinner flask and claim it's luminescent e.coli | 21:08 |
| jonathan__ | yes! | 21:08 |
| jonathan__ | it has to be yogurt because no one knows what e.coli is. | 21:09 |
| jonathan__ | but they know pro-biotic yogurt is somehow good. | 21:09 |
| yashgaroth | then they'll want to eat it and I doubt that'll end well | 21:09 |
| jonathan__ | I brought in 14 bottles of wine so I doubt anyone will care about much | 21:09 |
| yashgaroth | people know what yeast is? fuck it let's do luminscent kombucha | 21:10 |
| yashgaroth | dude there's gonna be like 100 people there, there were like 50 at the first opening when all we had were the building keys | 21:10 |
| jonathan__ | "this is my scoby I mean the mother I mean aww hell it's just magic" | 21:10 |
| jonathan__ | maybe I should go over to life tech and hand out fliers to the marketing girls. "wine tasting at bio incubator" | 21:11 |
| jonathan__ | I guess the journal club is dead too unless someone does cpr | 21:12 |
| yashgaroth | I ain't going all the fuck way up there again to watch richard explain j craig to non-bio people | 21:13 |
| jonathan__ | unless they're hot? | 21:14 |
| yashgaroth | well obviously | 21:14 |
| jonathan__ | "Ancient horse bone yields oldest DNA sequence" | 21:14 |
| jonathan__ | paperbot http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12275.html | 21:15 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/The%20role%20of%20behaviour%20in%20adaptive%20morphological%20evolution%20of%20African%20proboscideans.pdf | 21:15 |
| jonathan__ | keep forgetting to call the science cheerleaders | 21:18 |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 21:23 | |
| -!- Charlie [~quassel@74.63.212.44] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:25 | |
| jonathan__ | "In 2012, antibiotic development continues to stagnate. Two systemic antibacterial agents have been approved for use in humans by the U.S. FDA from 2008 through the current year. Compare that to sixteen that were approved from 1983-1987. In particular, we have had no new classes of antibiotics to treat Gram-negative bacilli (GNB) for more than 40 years .... For example, the scientific and regulatory challenges markedly increas | 21:26 |
| jonathan__ | cost and timeline of development, which greatly exacerbates the economic disadvantages of antibiotics. Conversely, if antibiotics were billion-dollar-per-year blockbuster drugs, companies would be willing to tolerate high barriers scientifically and from a regulatory perspective. Since antibiotics tend to sell much less than a billion dollars per year, there is instead low tolerance for scientific and regulatory barriers." | 21:26 |
| jonathan__ | that's the only problem worth working on. | 21:35 |
| jonathan__ | high need, not profitable, no business case, regulatory burden. no company will really go near it. | 21:36 |
| heath | http://sbirsource.com/sbir/firms/17559-clark-and-parsia-llc | 21:40 |
| yashgaroth | give it a few years for people to realize that totally drug resistant bugs will kill tens of millions | 21:41 |
| heath | Clark and Parsia was awarded $100K for phase 1 and.. $380K or $89K for phase2 of the project? | 21:41 |
| jonathan__ | hopefully I will be anchored away from land when the pandemic hits. | 21:45 |
| -!- wizrobe [~emankcin@c-76-23-254-105.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:45 | |
| jonathan__ | here's a good use of the dna synthesizer for antibiotics. doi:10.1111/j.1462-2920.2004.00664.x | 21:46 |
| jonathan__ | paperbot http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00253-007-0945-5 | 21:51 |
| paperbot | error: HTTP 500 http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Metagenomics%2C%20biotechnology%20with%20non-culturable%20microbes.pdf | 21:51 |
| yashgaroth | ehh they're not really synthesizing anything | 21:53 |
| kanzure | `. | 21:53 |
| yashgaroth | just going 'oh we found a bunch of new ways that bacteria are resistant to antibiotics' | 21:53 |
| jonathan__ | if you had a synthesizer, you could make libraries of whatever you want. oh yay. unless there's an interesting use for such libraries. | 21:55 |
| jonathan__ | are you saying it won't be a problem once biopharma focuses attention on it? | 21:57 |
| jonathan__ | meaning, they'll suddenly find new antibiotics? | 21:57 |
| yashgaroth | with enough money, sure | 21:58 |
| jonathan__ | I thought the theme was: these bugs are very interesting but difficult to culture. i.e. easier to synthesize them directly than multiply them. | 21:59 |
| kanzure | well, sometimes easier means.. easier than convincing someone to ship you a sample. | 21:59 |
| yashgaroth | they're just pulling out chunks of genome from soil bacteria and shoving them into e.coli, seeing which recipient e.coli live, and then sequencing the chunks they have | 21:59 |
| jonathan__ | "with enough money, sure" -> I think this is overly optimistic. considering biopharma cant do much with the tons of money thrown at other problems they're interested in. | 22:00 |
| yashgaroth | it's a somewhat different landscape, but fair point | 22:00 |
| jonathan__ | obviously what we need, are microfluidics. with laserz. | 22:01 |
| yashgaroth | can never have enough | 22:02 |
| jonathan__ | how much $ has bill gates shoved into malaria research by this point... they cant even get mosquitos to stop reproducing. | 22:03 |
| jonathan__ | by the way does anyone else sense the irony in bill Mr. Blue Screen of Death gates working on a cure for malaria? | 22:03 |
| yashgaroth | not directly | 22:04 |
| yashgaroth | also it'd be more efficient and effective to spend money forcing people not to misuse antibiotics | 22:05 |
| jonathan__ | that won't happen. prohibition didn't work either. | 22:07 |
| yashgaroth | yeah but it's easier to just blame humans | 22:08 |
| yashgaroth | also it's like anti-prohibition because most misuse of antibiotics is under-use | 22:09 |
| jonathan__ | I blame the biologists for not wanting to innovate anything they do. pbbbt | 22:09 |
| yashgaroth | also true | 22:09 |
| kanzure | i think the mosquito lasers were working last time i checked | 22:09 |
| jonathan__ | do they have microfluidic channels? | 22:09 |
| kanzure | of course, we might end up with laser-resistant mosquitos | 22:10 |
| yashgaroth | worth it | 22:11 |
| jonathan__ | "Although early prototypes of the mosquito laser worked, they were too expensive for use in developing countries. In the latest version, the mosquito laser is assembled from commonly availably technology. In fact, Myhrvold and his team found all the components on Ebay, which included parts from printers and projectors, and the zoom lenses from digital cameras. He estimates that the new version could cost as little as $50 to | 22:11 |
| jonathan__ | manufacture, depending on volume. | 22:11 |
| jonathan__ | Read more at: http://phys.org/news185463943.html#jCp" | 22:11 |
| jonathan__ | if it only costs $50, then where's the schematics? | 22:12 |
| kanzure | eww "Read more" javascript injection | 22:12 |
| jonathan__ | yea sorry | 22:13 |
| kanzure | probably because they plan to "commercialize" it. | 22:13 |
| jonathan__ | iphone has enough cpu to drive it. | 22:13 |
| brownies | why commercialize a device for poor people? | 22:13 |
| jonathan__ | iphone mosquito laser accessory! | 22:13 |
| kanzure | "it *could* cost as little as $50, but why would we let it?" | 22:13 |
| brownies | that seems like a bad market to cater to. | 22:13 |
| brownies | "it costs only $50. too bad no one in our target market has seen a dollar bill." | 22:14 |
| jonathan__ | well if it is that fast, there only needs to be one per family quad | 22:15 |
| jonathan__ | have the whole town chip in, sell their souls to buy just one | 22:15 |
| jonathan__ | "At a brainstorming session in 2007, to think of solutions for malaria, Dr. Wood, one of the architects of the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI), also known as “Star Wars,” suggested designing a system to kill mosquitoes with lasers. Soon after, the idea was followed up by many scientists at Intellectual Ventures and mosquitoes were being shot down within a year.[4]" | 22:16 |
| jonathan__ | number of subscribers to diybio list: 12,000 | 22:16 |
| kanzure | hah, intellectual ventures. great.. :( | 22:17 |
| jonathan__ | number of actual smart engineers required to design and produce a laser: 12 | 22:17 |
| kanzure | i doubt that it takes 12 engineers to add a laser to a product. | 22:17 |
| jonathan__ | [*] within one year | 22:17 |
| brownies | it takes one engineer, a bottle of scotch, and some duct tape. | 22:17 |
| jonathan__ | obviously, it has to aim somehow... | 22:18 |
| jonathan__ | ok it really only took 3 engineers, the rest were used as human targets for the test mosquitos | 22:18 |
| jonathan__ | curiously, they would return home from work each day with tiny burn marks all over their skin | 22:19 |
| yashgaroth | also seems like having to be 100 ft from a laser machine would make it hard to subsistence farm | 22:20 |
| jonathan__ | "Jordin Kare has published instructions on how to build a DIY photonic fence.[14]" | 22:20 |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:21 | |
| delinquentme | nmz787_, can a spec be used to checkout quality of a drug? | 22:21 |
| klafka | not of illicit ones - from a legal perspective | 22:21 |
| brownies | hm, this doesn't seem very DIY-friendly http://www.google.com/patents/US20100186284 | 22:23 |
| brownies | i guess technically publishing the instructions as a patent does still count as "publishing the instructions" but... eh. | 22:24 |
| jonathan__ | typically the bill gates foundation enforces price controls, I think | 22:24 |
| yashgaroth | fig.4: mosquito butt | 22:24 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 22:24 | |
| jonathan__ | " All three stages of the photonic fence can be made from this consumer technology. When the device is looking for mosquitoes that pass its field of vision, it uses basic infra-red LEDs, and light sensors from modern digital cameras.[5] To target and kill the mosquitoes it uses similar laser technology as what is in optical devices such as DVD, or Blu-ray disc drives.[11]" | 22:24 |
| jonathan__ | totally iphone worthy | 22:25 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:25 | |
| delinquentme | klafka, I mean lets say you've got some adderall from a not super reputable source and some from a reputable one | 22:25 |
| delinquentme | you'd like to check to see how close the chemical compositions are | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | you can dissolve both in solution and spectrometer the crap outa those samples | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | and get their comparative components | 22:26 |
| delinquentme | ja? | 22:26 |
| jonathan__ | "If you still haven’t flipped through the latest issue of Make Magazine, well here it is. Not the whole thing, just 3ric Johanson’s critically (do I qualify as a critic?) acclaimed article on the Photonic Fence. Creating a machine that shoots mosquitoes out of the sky with lasers has been no small task. 3ric gives the low down on everything from the preliminary eye-rolling brainstorms, to the three challenges in mosquito | 22:26 |
| jonathan__ | assassination, as well as explanations of the hardware, software and methods he is currently using. " http://intellectualventureslab.com/?p=1574 | 22:26 |
| brownies | how is it possibly that complicated? | 22:26 |
| jonathan__ | slap "raspberry pi" on the front of that and kickstarter would hit 10 k easy! | 22:27 |
| kanzure | paralella pi | 22:27 |
| kanzure | with ouya | 22:27 |
| kanzure | for your iphone | 22:27 |
| jonathan__ | mosquito pi - with mesh networking | 22:28 |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 22:29 | |
| kanzure | paperbot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12323.html | 22:31 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/Recalibrating%20Equus%20evolution%20using%20the%20genome%20sequence%20of%20an%20early%20Middle%20Pleistocene%20horse.pdf | 22:31 |
| kanzure | oh right | 22:31 |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@node128.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:31 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@node128.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] | 22:31 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:31 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 22:34 | |
| jonathan__ | mosquito death requires 50 - 100 millijoules | 22:35 |
| jonathan__ | what physics gradstudentbot wants to convert that to blue ray laser wattage | 22:35 |
| gradstudentbot | Nobody has tried this before. | 22:35 |
| jonathan__ | ok the mosquito pi must use opencv | 22:39 |
| jonathan__ | according to them. | 22:40 |
| jonathan__ | ""I had a look at LA Biohacker's website, it seems that you have a meet up event for every Sunday. At the moment Labster is offering a free version for everyone, that means all your members at LA Biohacker and others can actually use all of Labster cases for free! For example, you can incorporate Labster into your Sunday meet up. "" | 22:43 |
| -!- makoLime [~mako@wireless-nat-7.auckland.ac.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 22:44 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 22:46 | |
| -!- delinquentme [~asdfasdf@66.233.132.203] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:49 | |
| kanzure | jonathan__: yeah, they have been sppending that labster spam everywhere | 22:50 |
| kanzure | jonathan__: therefore i think they are spammers | 22:50 |
| jonathan__ | it doesnt look that interesting anyway | 22:50 |
| jonathan__ | oh yay, play a videogame virtual reality lab thing as educational experience | 22:50 |
| kanzure | now i can experience the agony of lab work anytime i want! | 22:51 |
| jonathan__ | "SGVI is seeking a post-doctoral level candidate who is highly skilled in microbiology and molecular biology and preferably, has experience working with bacteriophage, for the role of Scientist in the SGVI phage R&D team. " | 22:53 |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node134.18.251.72.1dial.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:57 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@node134.18.251.72.1dial.com] has quit [Changing host] | 22:57 | |
| -!- Viper168 [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 22:57 | |
| -!- Viper168_ [~Viper@unaffiliated/viper168] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 23:01 | |
| -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:16 | |
| -!- _Sol_ [~Sol@c-174-57-58-11.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [] | 23:16 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:35 | |
| -!- klafka [~klafka@c-24-6-18-31.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] | 23:40 | |
| -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[zzz] | 23:41 | |
| -!- yashgaroth [~ffffff@cpe-66-27-118-94.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 23:44 | |
| -!- ParahSai1in [~Rob@50-194-178-148-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 23:56 | |
| -!- ParahSailin [~Rob@50-194-178-148-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:56 | |
| --- Log closed Thu Jun 27 00:00:08 2013 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!
