| --- Log opened Thu May 15 00:00:05 2014 | ||
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| abetusk | I don't know a lot about the subject, but does anyone know about Gene Network Sciences "Diagrammatic Cell Language"? Does anyone know of any open/unencumbered alternatives? | 05:20 |
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| @kanzure | i thought brain electrodes were a great idea | 06:15 |
| @kanzure | then your time-until-reward is constrained mostly by your ability to recognize desired behavior, pressing a button, and speed of light constraints | 06:16 |
| @kanzure | as opposed to the time it takes for you to reinforce with food | 06:17 |
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| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 06:27 | |
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| kanzure | "Autodesk expects to license the software inside its printer at no cost and will also let people copy the printer’s hardware design. Autodesk has not yet determined which of several standard open-source licenses it will use, if any" | 06:44 |
| kanzure | ugh well then don't call it open source if you're not using an open source license | 06:44 |
| kanzure | way to alienate your users | 06:44 |
| kanzure | biotinkering-berlin@googlegroups.com | 06:49 |
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| kanzure | "Well.. they should get their facts straight, OLGA Biohackerspace in Austria is a certified S1 GMO lab since 2013. The scene isn't that big." | 07:23 |
| kanzure | via <openbiolabgraz@gmail.com> | 07:23 |
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| kanzure | "Two-dimensional atomic lithography by sub-micron focusing of atomic beams" http://arxiv.org/pdf/physics/0506022.pdf | 07:27 |
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| cluckj | is SL1 the same in austria as it is in the US? | 07:44 |
| kanzure | i dunno if they meant SL1 | 07:44 |
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| cluckj | probably? | 07:45 |
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| cluckj | oh, since december 2013 | 08:02 |
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| sheena | can i ask pidgin not to show me the "entered" "left" notifications? | 08:16 |
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| kanzure | i think that's under preferences | 08:20 |
| sheena | i dont see it anywhere | 08:26 |
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| kanzure | sheena: it's the join/part plugin in the plugins list | 08:39 |
| sheena | ty | 08:40 |
| sheena | awesome. thanks | 08:40 |
| cluckj | kanzure, where was that message posted? | 08:58 |
| kanzure | one of the diybio-except-we-hate-kanzure-and-we-are-trying-to-get-away-from-him mailing lists | 08:59 |
| cluckj | a secret list? | 09:00 |
| kanzure | their secret list has a secret list of its own | 09:00 |
| kanzure | it's just dumb | 09:00 |
| cluckj | that's very interesting | 09:00 |
| kanzure | diybio-eu | 09:00 |
| kanzure | yeah, basically they didn't listen to me | 09:00 |
| kanzure | i told them that having lots of regional mailing lists will just fracture the community | 09:00 |
| kanzure | and now we have 400 different region-specific groups that never talk with each other | 09:01 |
| dingo | definitely aagree | 09:02 |
| dingo | i haate exclusivity | 09:02 |
| cluckj | oooo blocked webpage | 09:02 |
| dingo | if you don't like somebody, just aask them to leave | 09:03 |
| cluckj | or broken web server | 09:06 |
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| cluckj | it's one thing to have a region-specific mailing list, but not making it publicly available, tsk tsk | 09:10 |
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| kanzure | hah | 09:16 |
| cluckj | how am I supposed to keep up with what people are doing? like.....actually talk to them??? ughhhh | 09:26 |
| kanzure | i know, right? | 09:27 |
| cluckj | there was a person who was doing hackerspace/biohackerspace work by mining mailing list data and watching livestreams of hackathons | 09:28 |
| cluckj | they concluded that nothing was getting done because there wasn't any discussion of successes or completed projects on the mailing lists, only questions about how to fix things or problems with building stuff | 09:30 |
| kanzure | yes, the hackerspace mailing lists have not been particularly helpful | 09:31 |
| cluckj | no kidding | 09:32 |
| cluckj | I didn't want to start a personal conflict with the researcher, so one of my friends questioned their data gathering and analysis after the presentation | 09:33 |
| cluckj | and directly compared my work to theirs, because I came to literally the exact opposite conclusion | 09:34 |
| kanzure | to be fair, i think that in most hackerspaces, not much is really accomplished | 09:35 |
| cluckj | I've only been to a couple, but there seemed to be actual stuff happening | 09:36 |
| kanzure | like what | 09:36 |
| cluckj | cool or interesting things being built, communities being formed | 09:37 |
| kanzure | that is not a good answer | 09:37 |
| cluckj | hah | 09:38 |
| cluckj | one was nyc resistor though | 09:38 |
| kanzure | i am also skeptical of "any time people get together, it's net good because communities!" because i'm absolutely certain that a group of people can get together in a workshop and do absolutely nothing productive | 09:38 |
| cluckj | that's sometimes true | 09:39 |
| cluckj | you're underestimating the power of people getting together...they might not be doing things inside the space that you can see | 09:40 |
| kanzure | i'm not a micromanager | 09:40 |
| kanzure | i don't need to see hammers flying | 09:40 |
| chris_99 | or do something worse than being un-productive | 09:40 |
| cluckj | haha | 09:41 |
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| cluckj | they could be counterproductive or something | 09:42 |
| kanzure | or counterculture | 09:42 |
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| kanzure | or counter protoculture http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_IIiwunMZZmw/SCai3aiKZ9I/AAAAAAAAAlM/WDeLQdnurKo/s1600-h/Macross+since+1983_front.jpg | 09:43 |
| cluckj | the CCL dudes are nice :P | 09:44 |
| delinquentme | JA <3 the CCl kids | 09:45 |
| delinquentme | also | 09:45 |
| delinquentme | paperbot http://link.springer.com/protocol/10.1385%2F1-59259-258-9%3A119 | 09:45 |
| delinquentme | BRING | 09:45 |
| cluckj | rejected. | 09:49 |
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| kanzure | .title http://clearcrypt.org/tls/ | 09:56 |
| yoleaux | Nuke TLS From Orbit | 09:56 |
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| kanzure | http://passportsforbitcoin.com/ | 10:07 |
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| kanzure | "As user ufmace (and artificialidiot) points out, this is NOT nearly as big of a revolution as the media is making it out to be. You CAN buy CNC mills or lathes to build higher quality weapons with little or no licensure, for generally the same or less $$ than a 3D printer. You could also buy much of what is necessary to build a Liberator-style weapon in a Home Depot. You could also buy a czech-stamped 9x18 makarov pistol for under $150, and ... | 10:37 |
| kanzure | ... put hundreds or thousands of rounds through it, all without talking to an FFL holder." | 10:37 |
| kanzure | "This was a perfect storm of tech interest and general wonderment in 3D printing meeting zealotry applied towards gun laws, from both directions. People from Defense Distributed are well aware of this; nonsense or not, it made a great launch pad and buzz mill. Mr. Wilson has already signed his book deal and on to his Dark Wallet project." | 10:37 |
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| kanzure | "Me personally, I've always thought that building some STL files of the solvent trap adapter[0] or adapter used in the Econo-Can suppressor[1] would be more meaningful parts to distribute via 3D printers (If you're all into the freedom-of-weapons via technology bandwagon, which I'm not). Suppressors are a very real tactical advantage, and small threaded adapters are much more likely to stand up to the stresses of weapons use." | 10:37 |
| kanzure | 10:20 <+nathaniel> <not_un> EnLilaSko: why is kanzure such a cock | 10:39 |
| kanzure | gee let's guess | 10:39 |
| kanzure | it's not a mystery | 10:40 |
| catern | hmm? is there actually a reason? | 10:40 |
| kanzure | YES | 10:41 |
| catern | what is it | 10:42 |
| kanzure | this channel gets overrun with trash if i don't take out the garbage | 10:43 |
| kanzure | this is not a transhumanism cheerleading circus | 10:43 |
| kanzure | the purpose of hplusroadmap was to build things | 10:44 |
| sheena | give me a T | 10:44 |
| sheena | give me a R | 10:44 |
| kanzure | that's going to be a very long cheer | 10:44 |
| * sheena calls elephant to stand on pedastal | 10:44 | |
| sheena | pedestal? | 10:44 |
| @ParahSailin | stool | 10:45 |
| kanzure | no, she means the chair, not poop | 10:45 |
| sheena | heh yeah. elephants on stools. | 10:45 |
| kanzure | catern: also, in general, people think that if you disagree with them strongly that you must be an asshole/evil/a monster | 10:46 |
| cluckj | ^-- | 10:46 |
| catern | oh, ok | 10:48 |
| cluckj | telling people to piss off also makes them think you're a jerk :P | 10:50 |
| kanzure | it's entirely possible that i am a jerk | 10:50 |
| kanzure | but what does that matter; i don't seem them doing the job better | 10:50 |
| cluckj | eh | 10:53 |
| cluckj | it's also about how another person takes your demeanor | 10:54 |
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| cluckj | and if you were a real deep-down jackass I'd probably not want to talk to you at all | 10:56 |
| sheena | kanzure: you're aware that your social interactions are not always taken as you intend them | 10:57 |
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| cluckj | nobody's are | 10:59 |
| kanzure | cluckj: deep down inside, we're all just as creepy and chocolatey as you :) | 11:01 |
| kanzure | actually, chocolate isn't that much of a problem i think | 11:02 |
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| kanzure | "frosted sugar blasted" | 11:02 |
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| sheena | http://www.buzzfeed.com/kmallikarjuna/how-to-science-as-told-by-17-overly-honest-scientists | 11:29 |
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| eudoxia | the one about the centrifuge noises speaks to me on a very personal level | 11:45 |
| kanzure | does it haunt you | 11:46 |
| eudoxia | no | 11:46 |
| eudoxia | when i was a kid and i had to poop while the washing machine was running i got scared because it made scary noises | 11:46 |
| eudoxia | (because the washing machine was in the bathroom and it shook a bunch) | 11:47 |
| kanzure | did you consider turning it off | 11:47 |
| eudoxia | i was a little kid, i didn't know how to operate one. also i would have had to turn it back on again and ugghhhh | 11:48 |
| kanzure | someone posted videos of me as a little kid on facebook, if you want to stalk my former self | 11:51 |
| kanzure | i only know this because i finally checked facebook today :| | 11:51 |
| eudoxia | hm i don't think i have you on fb | 11:54 |
| eudoxia | are the videos some kind of waldorf school security camera experiment thing | 11:54 |
| kanzure | no | 11:56 |
| kanzure | just showing off my talents as a street artist back in '96 | 11:56 |
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| FourFire | kanzure, #12 is funny | 12:07 |
| FourFire | I've heard that a lot of the officially used psychology research is based solely on students in a small geographic area | 12:07 |
| not_unoriginal | there's some pithy acronym for it | 12:10 |
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| cluckj | kanzure mmm creepy chocolate | 13:06 |
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| cluckj | processed on the same equipment as tree nuts | 13:13 |
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| mabblebrox | are we still taking steroids to type? :-P | 13:17 |
| mabblebrox | there's like, addderall, you know | 13:17 |
| not_unoriginal | that sounds great | 13:18 |
| mabblebrox | what's the bias, i don't get it | 13:20 |
| mabblebrox | transcend human limitations, great, but there are limits | 13:20 |
| not_unoriginal | http://oz-mix.blogspot.com/2011/08/beliefs-unlimited.html?m=1 | 13:21 |
| mabblebrox | hmm that's a bit more rational | 13:22 |
| mabblebrox | one user, on here, was tripping me out | 13:23 |
| not_unoriginal | lilly took so much ketamine he had to wear a diaper | 13:23 |
| mabblebrox | lol that stuff is boring | 13:23 |
| mabblebrox | I did some bumps | 13:23 |
| mabblebrox | well, idk, the dude's like, everything's for a reason | 13:23 |
| not_unoriginal | I've never done it | 13:24 |
| mabblebrox | and I end up at a bar and some chick's in a vulnerable state | 13:24 |
| mabblebrox | without the ketamine, I would have gone for it | 13:24 |
| mabblebrox | so maybe he was right? dunno | 13:24 |
| mabblebrox | dissociatives have very little to offer | 13:24 |
| mabblebrox | but, my life is weird | 13:24 |
| delinquentme | ^^^^^ | 13:26 |
| delinquentme | +1 mabblebrox | 13:26 |
| mabblebrox | +1 for doing ketamine? | 13:26 |
| mabblebrox | this is a strange room | 13:26 |
| mabblebrox | hmm | 13:27 |
| mabblebrox | ok maybe steroids for like 1-3 months, tops | 13:27 |
| mabblebrox | with lots of weed to even out | 13:27 |
| mabblebrox | then cycle stimulants? | 13:27 |
| mabblebrox | cause I have to get in top shape like, real fast | 13:27 |
| not_unoriginal | tren and clen | 13:27 |
| mabblebrox | ? | 13:28 |
| not_unoriginal | ... | 13:28 |
| mabblebrox | me nub | 13:28 |
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| not_unoriginal | seriously, you're planning on steroids but do not know trenbolone and clenbutrol? | 13:28 |
| mabblebrox | i'm ill informed, what are these? | 13:28 |
| mabblebrox | i'm not 'planning' anything | 13:28 |
| mabblebrox | just researching | 13:28 |
| not_unoriginal | well, in my vast studies of steroid use, most recommend a "beginner's cycle" of solely testosterone | 13:29 |
| mabblebrox | being, trenbolone and clenbutrol? | 13:30 |
| mabblebrox | hold on, i'll google | 13:30 |
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| @ParahSailin | these are what you use in the "cut" phase of the cycle | 13:39 |
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| mabblebrox | . | 13:52 |
| mabblebrox | ok | 13:52 |
| mabblebrox | damn NSA they crashed my Windows | 13:52 |
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| mabblebrox | hi, anyone home? | 13:55 |
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| kanzure | what do you want to know | 13:56 |
| mabblebrox | dude, you use steroids for typing | 13:56 |
| mabblebrox | i'm not sure what I can learn from you | 13:56 |
| FourFire | mabblebrox, hello, that's encouraging ;P | 13:57 |
| kanzure | then why are you asking if i'm at home? | 13:57 |
| mabblebrox | i was pinging | 13:57 |
| mabblebrox | to start a conversation | 13:57 |
| not_unoriginal | is kanzure using androgenics? | 13:57 |
| mabblebrox | who knows | 13:57 |
| FourFire | mabblebrox, what brings you to this channel? | 13:57 |
| mabblebrox | i'm like, adderall is much better than steroids, for typing | 13:57 |
| mabblebrox | um | 13:57 |
| mabblebrox | I need to get into top shape, real fast | 13:57 |
| FourFire | do you do floor exercises? | 13:58 |
| mabblebrox | I don't exercise, right now | 13:58 |
| mabblebrox | I want to become a bicycle messenger | 13:58 |
| FourFire | Pushups, Situps, & etc. | 13:58 |
| mabblebrox | right | 13:58 |
| not_unoriginal | do stronglifts 5x5 | 13:58 |
| mabblebrox | well i'm a tub of lard | 13:58 |
| mabblebrox | and I want to be bruce lee | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | so, need to break some rules, obviously | 13:59 |
| FourFire | so you'll want to train your aerobolic endurance as well as general fitness | 13:59 |
| not_unoriginal | okay... why not set a SMART goal | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | aerobolic? | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | vs anabolic? | 13:59 |
| FourFire | yep | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | aerobolic is muscle mass, anabolic endurance right? | 13:59 |
| FourFire | ok, for fat: what can you do about your diet? | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | er, oxygen/no oxygen? | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | uh | 13:59 |
| mabblebrox | cocaine? | 13:59 |
| FourFire | Are you eating healthily, and if not, can you fix it? | 14:00 |
| mabblebrox | i'm eating, reasonbly healthily, a little bit of stress carbs | 14:00 |
| mabblebrox | if I improve my life situation, cut carbs and increase protein | 14:00 |
| mabblebrox | but, really I'd like to be a bicycle messenger, and bump a few lines, and hope to God I keep it under control | 14:01 |
| FourFire | if you are a "tub of lard" there's obvious reasons for it, noone magically gets unhealthily overweight "because I have a slow metabolism" it's because of years of accumulative fat build up due to lifestyle | 14:01 |
| mabblebrox | yes, I have a fast metabolism, in a shitty life circumstance | 14:01 |
| mabblebrox | well tub of lard is like 30 pounds overweight, no biggy | 14:01 |
| mabblebrox | brb | 14:01 |
| FourFire | mabblebrox, you benefit most from a short period of *Hard* exercise | 14:01 |
| mabblebrox | hum | 14:01 |
| FourFire | do pushups, situps, for 2-10 minutes several times daily | 14:02 |
| jrayhawk | there is no such thing as overweight | 14:02 |
| jrayhawk | well, there is, but it is dumb | 14:02 |
| FourFire | jrayhawk, of course, but there is such a thing as an unhealthy fat-muscle ratio | 14:03 |
| FourFire | if your chest cavity has lots of fat in it your organs can get crowded out and that's bad | 14:03 |
| mabblebrox | no i'm not super fat | 14:04 |
| mabblebrox | just pudge | 14:04 |
| mabblebrox | but (and please don't kick me) | 14:04 |
| FourFire | mabblebrox, you exercise hard and fast, and you do it often, make it a goal to do it a certain amount of times, do it before a meal | 14:04 |
| mabblebrox | my thought was, heavy lifting with a bit of cocaine, THC and nitrates to vasodilate | 14:05 |
| mabblebrox | hm | 14:05 |
| FourFire | yeah well I don't use stimulants, ask someone else about that | 14:05 |
| mabblebrox | or steroids, but i don't want to shrink my balls | 14:05 |
| mabblebrox | and I kind of like my liver | 14:05 |
| jrayhawk | uh, fat/muscle ratios are dominated by peripheral adipose tissue, "chest cavity" ectopic fat is miniscule and abysmally scary. | 14:06 |
| jrayhawk | You should really decide which one you want to talk about. | 14:06 |
| mabblebrox | fat is easy to dissolve | 14:06 |
| mabblebrox | like, MDMA at a rave, ankle/waist/wrist weights | 14:06 |
| mabblebrox | boom fast twitch | 14:06 |
| not_unoriginal | DO A KETOGENIC DIET BLEH BLAH | 14:06 |
| mabblebrox | ketogenic? | 14:07 |
| kanzure | i hate all of you | 14:07 |
| mabblebrox | I dont hate you | 14:07 |
| mabblebrox | I just think you should rethink your steroid use | 14:07 |
| mabblebrox | me.google | 14:08 |
| jrayhawk | steroid? | 14:08 |
| mabblebrox | no comment, i don't want to incriminate | 14:08 |
| kanzure | he thinks adderall is a steroid or something | 14:08 |
| kanzure | i don't know why i get stuck with these people | 14:08 |
| jrayhawk | Haha, awesome | 14:08 |
| mabblebrox | oh duh, low carb | 14:08 |
| mabblebrox | that's obvious | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | unless you're a marathonist | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | but like, I want to get FAST | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | and STRONG | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | real qucik | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | quick | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | so my thought was, raves with weights | 14:09 |
| mabblebrox | ketogenic helps with epilepsy, huh | 14:10 |
| jrayhawk | There are three metabolic tiers of time/strength capacities, and you don't particularly seem to understand them. | 14:10 |
| mabblebrox | you're right, i've done little research on this | 14:11 |
| mabblebrox | please elucidate, or give a link | 14:11 |
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| mabblebrox | ha, entelechos, nice | 14:13 |
| kanzure | he's muted | 14:13 |
| kanzure | how do you know him? | 14:14 |
| mabblebrox | I don't | 14:14 |
| mabblebrox | I know the term, entelechy, which is a fully actualized individual, from the Aristotle | 14:14 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: if you want to get strong, fast, then follow a weightlifting plan | 14:15 |
| mabblebrox | but I need boosters | 14:15 |
| mabblebrox | like from 0 to bruce lee in 60 seconds | 14:15 |
| cpopell | and I want NZT from limitless | 14:15 |
| cpopell | saying you want something doesn't make it real | 14:15 |
| mabblebrox | it's only a virtuality | 14:15 |
| jrayhawk | So, if you want to optimize for max effort (e.g. 100% for ten seconds or less), you need to train for neurological activation and muscle mass and density. If you want to optimize for longer term metabolic activity (80% max effort for tens of minutes), you want to train for glucose delivery and utilization including cardiology, and if you want endurance effort (say, 30-60 max effort for essentially infinite amounts of time) you need ... | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | ... to train fat metabolism, usually through carb-fasted training. | 14:16 |
| cpopell | 'it's only a virtuality' what? | 14:16 |
| mabblebrox | my ideal, is a virtuality, in my mind, and I am researching the possible avenues by which it may be attained, rapidly | 14:16 |
| jrayhawk | These modalities typically can't be trained at the same time. | 14:16 |
| mabblebrox | (withot shrinking my balls) | 14:17 |
| cpopell | Well, first of all | 14:17 |
| jrayhawk | Gains in one are usually pretty good for others, though. | 14:17 |
| cpopell | while you can do steroids comparatively safely | 14:17 |
| mabblebrox | how so? | 14:17 |
| cpopell | I wouldn't trust you do to the research with what you're showing here | 14:17 |
| mabblebrox | well, i'm drunk on ritalin, so i'm not entirely rational right now | 14:17 |
| cpopell | very, very carefully is how. | 14:17 |
| mabblebrox | hm | 14:17 |
| mabblebrox | in what way? | 14:17 |
| jrayhawk | is ritalin also a steroid in your mind | 14:17 |
| mabblebrox | no, it's just entertainment | 14:18 |
| cpopell | Shrug, I've only come across it, I haven't really gone into the details | 14:18 |
| cpopell | I'm happy being natty | 14:18 |
| mabblebrox | but, with alcohol you get methylphenidate | 14:18 |
| sheena | everone but mabblebrox understands that you cant just make up drug classes, and that stims aren't steroids.. right? | 14:18 |
| mabblebrox | as with cocaine, you get cocaethylene | 14:18 |
| cpopell | sheena: yes | 14:18 |
| mabblebrox | right, because stims drain | 14:18 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: Second, if you want gains, commit yourself to it | 14:18 |
| mabblebrox | mhm | 14:18 |
| @fenn | "with alcohol you get methylphenidate" what does that even mean | 14:18 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: Explosive power means olympic lifting | 14:19 |
| jrayhawk | it means he really likes drinking rubbing alcohol. | 14:19 |
| cpopell | I also might recommend martial arts/gymnastics/parkour | 14:19 |
| mabblebrox | methylphenidate (ritalin) will combine with ethanol in the liver to form methylphenidate, which slightly more potently blocks reuptake of dopamine | 14:19 |
| mabblebrox | no i've tried that, isopropyl does shit | 14:19 |
| @fenn | x combines with y to form x? | 14:19 |
| mabblebrox | and then converts in the liver to pure acetone | 14:20 |
| mabblebrox | so, no. | 14:20 |
| mabblebrox | bleh | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | hey, that means you're already ketogenic! | 14:20 |
| mabblebrox | all i'm trying to surmise, is how I can be bruce lee within a 2 year timeframe | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | via terrifying and horrible pathways | 14:20 |
| mabblebrox | if you're just getting pissed of by me i'll leave. | 14:20 |
| @fenn | bruce lee is dead | 14:20 |
| kanzure | don't focus too much on bruce lee, he's dead | 14:20 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 14:20 |
| kanzure | get off my damn wavelength | 14:20 |
| cpopell | a) you can't, b) he was a genetic freak, c) he was incredibly focused and studied hard too, d) train hard, that's it. | 14:20 |
| sheena | i suspect time spent exercising would be a good first step | 14:21 |
| @fenn | define quantitative goals, come up with a plan to meet those goals | 14:21 |
| mabblebrox | only because some dude shot him in the head with a blank | 14:21 |
| cpopell | Bruce Lee didn't become Bruce Lee within 2 years. | 14:21 |
| mabblebrox | well no | 14:21 |
| @fenn | my point is, you can't "be" bruce lee because bruce lee doesn't exist | 14:21 |
| mabblebrox | but did he try LSD? MDMA? controlled use of cocaine? cautious use of steroids? | 14:21 |
| kanzure | and he's a terrible role model, dying and all, what a jerk | 14:21 |
| mabblebrox | I'm not trying to 'be' bruce lee, that would be impossible | 14:21 |
| mabblebrox | I'm trying to attain to that level of awesome | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | the general belief is that he died due to drug experimentation | 14:22 |
| @fenn | define awesome. | 14:22 |
| mabblebrox | I thought it was a blank too close to the head | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | that was his son | 14:22 |
| cpopell | fenn: I'll agree about the awesome | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | and it wasn't quite blank | 14:22 |
| mabblebrox | huh? | 14:22 |
| mabblebrox | oh is that the conspiracy theory? | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | no | 14:22 |
| mabblebrox | they loaded with a real bullet? | 14:22 |
| kanzure | bruce lee died because of tylenol or something | 14:22 |
| mabblebrox | dude wtf | 14:22 |
| cpopell | kanzure: muscle relaxant | 14:22 |
| mabblebrox | you have to take like 6 grams of tylenol to die | 14:22 |
| kanzure | aw damn | 14:22 |
| jrayhawk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee | 14:23 |
| cpopell | kanzure: Equagesic | 14:23 |
| mabblebrox | believe me, i've contemplated it | 14:23 |
| jrayhawk | specifically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Lee#Death | 14:23 |
| mabblebrox | but decided that acetaminophen was a really shitty way to suicide | 14:23 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: You weightlift and train in martial arts, hard. | 14:23 |
| cpopell | that's it | 14:23 |
| cpopell | that's the only way to become like him. | 14:23 |
| mabblebrox | ok, so how did Bruce Lee die? | 14:23 |
| mabblebrox | was it cocaine and weightlifting? | 14:23 |
| mabblebrox | cause if i'm just gonna tear a tendon in half i'l just go steroids for a month or two | 14:24 |
| cpopell | like I said above, interaction between painkillers and a headache medicine | 14:24 |
| mabblebrox | wut? that's lame | 14:24 |
| cpopell | he had a bad drug interaction | 14:24 |
| mabblebrox | like vicodin? | 14:24 |
| mabblebrox | what a shitty way to die | 14:24 |
| cpopell | Equagesic | 14:24 |
| jrayhawk | and probably more illicit drugs. Lee was all about doing anything it took to be the greatest martial artist ever to live. | 14:24 |
| cpopell | jrayhawk: long term, tho | 14:25 |
| mabblebrox | well yeah, what i'd heard is he had a heart attack bench-pressing | 14:25 |
| @fenn | "Lee died from an allergic reaction to the muscle relaxant (meprobamate) in Equagesic, which he described as a common ingredient in painkillers." | 14:25 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: ...but he didn't have a heart attack | 14:25 |
| @fenn | it was ruled a "death by misadventure" | 14:25 |
| @fenn | .d misadventure | 14:25 |
| yoleaux | misadventure (/mɪsədˈvɛntʃə/): n. 1. Death caused by a person accidentally while performing a legal act without negligence or intent to harm: the coroner recorded a verdict of death by ⁓ — http://is.gd/V3a4yH | 14:25 |
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| mabblebrox | oh | 14:25 |
| mabblebrox | that is so. lame. | 14:26 |
| cpopell | Shit happens. | 14:26 |
| mabblebrox | I want to die epically | 14:26 |
| cpopell | Point is. | 14:26 |
| @fenn | hence why i don't care about jeet kun do | 14:26 |
| cpopell | Lift weights, work your body, eat well, sleep well, study. | 14:26 |
| mabblebrox | well, jeet kun do is a valuable contribution to the martial arts | 14:26 |
| mabblebrox | right | 14:26 |
| kanzure | cpopell: you should add "build shit" | 14:26 |
| cpopell | Eh, I've heard JKD is a decent MMA style | 14:26 |
| mabblebrox | my question is simply, with a bit of cocaine will I tear a tendon | 14:26 |
| cpopell | kanzure: his body will at least probably fix itself | 14:26 |
| @fenn | ok but what is the point of learning martial arts if you're just going to die essentially randomly | 14:27 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: cocaine is not regularly used as a weightlifting focus enhancer. | 14:27 |
| cpopell | fenn: JKD didn't lead to his death though O_o | 14:27 |
| mabblebrox | well, no, because it vasodconstricts | 14:27 |
| @fenn | what is the all-cause contribution to mortality of martial arts training (positive or negative) | 14:27 |
| mabblebrox | BUT if you counteract with THC, nitrates, maybe even prescription vasodilator | 14:27 |
| jrayhawk | is "cocaine" also a steroid in your mind | 14:27 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: WHY would you bother using cocaine | 14:27 |
| cpopell | in the gym | 14:27 |
| mabblebrox | to increase performance | 14:27 |
| mabblebrox | this is the reason I am asking | 14:27 |
| cpopell | Why do you assume it would increase performance | 14:27 |
| jrayhawk | you don't get stronger by increasing performance, you increase performance by getting stronger | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | uh because it's a stimulant | 14:28 |
| jrayhawk | you are engaging in crazy cargo cultism | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | no i'm just looking for shortcuts | 14:28 |
| @fenn | cocaine has terrible pharmacokinetics; why not use a well tested and "safe" bodybuilding stack like ECA? | 14:28 |
| jrayhawk | so were cargo cultists | 14:28 |
| cpopell | or even ECY | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | ephedrine? | 14:28 |
| cpopell | I like how you're not interested in steroids but cocaine is totally cool | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | i don't know ECA/ECY | 14:28 |
| cpopell | look it up. | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | well cocaine doesn't shrink your balls | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | will do | 14:28 |
| mabblebrox | oh ephedrine caffeine aspirin | 14:29 |
| mabblebrox | mrr | 14:29 |
| mabblebrox | isn't ephedrine a vasoconstrictor? | 14:29 |
| jrayhawk | does it matter | 14:29 |
| @fenn | caffeine is a vasoconstrictor | 14:29 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: cocaine just fucks up your brain, but I guess that doesn't matter to you | 14:29 |
| mabblebrox | um | 14:29 |
| mabblebrox | depends how you use it | 14:29 |
| mabblebrox | the trick, is to run in terror when you've gone too far | 14:30 |
| mabblebrox | and get stoned and sleep | 14:30 |
| @fenn | ephedra is also a vasoconstrictor | 14:30 |
| mabblebrox | it can cause psychosis, yes | 14:30 |
| @fenn | i mean ephedrine | 14:30 |
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| mabblebrox | but i've been through massive psychosis anyway, i can keep my shit together | 14:30 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 14:30 |
| @fenn | lol that is barely a sensible thought | 14:30 |
| mabblebrox | i'm just like, ok one bump, 3 bowls and some nitrates | 14:30 |
| @fenn | "trust me bro, i'm insane, it's cool" | 14:31 |
| mabblebrox | lol | 14:31 |
| mabblebrox | i'll admit to clinical insanity, it's no biggy | 14:31 |
| cpopell | Cocaine will not give you superpowers in the gym. | 14:31 |
| @fenn | cocain is also expensive, illegal, addictive, and has bad pharmacokinetics | 14:31 |
| jrayhawk | and superpowers are not a good idea; competition kills you, training is not done at competition levels of activity | 14:31 |
| cpopell | jrayhawk: ehhhhh :P | 14:32 |
| cpopell | jrayhawk: I shoot for upping my 1rm slightly every 2 weeks or so | 14:32 |
| kanzure | what did that have to do with superpowers? | 14:32 |
| cpopell | kanzure: regarding his statement on 'training is not done at competition levels of activity' | 14:33 |
| kanzure | right..? | 14:33 |
| cpopell | competition is probably less strenuous than an average training day | 14:33 |
| cpopell | for weightlifting | 14:33 |
| kanzure | so superpowers are a bad idea because competitions are less strenuous? | 14:33 |
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| cpopell | no, superpowers are a bad idea because they don't exist | 14:33 |
| jrayhawk | Artificially increasing the limits of your ability will not help make you stronger, it will, in fact, make you weaker. | 14:34 |
| kanzure | that sounds just like semantics ("what's real power, blah blah blah") | 14:34 |
| kanzure | I WILL SHOW YOU MY TRUE POWER, KAKAROT | 14:34 |
| jrayhawk | No, I mean elite athletes exit a competition vastly less healthy than they enter it. | 14:35 |
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| jrayhawk | They are operating at the very edge of their abilities and their bodies suffer for it. | 14:35 |
| cpopell | jrayhawk: depends on the competition | 14:35 |
| jrayhawk | Training happens at much lower levels. | 14:35 |
| cpopell | jrayhawk: you lift 9 times in a powerlifting comp | 14:35 |
| cpopell | That is true, however, for most other sports | 14:36 |
| jrayhawk | And those lifts are all at the edge of your abilities, seriously risking injury. | 14:36 |
| cpopell | No, you usually actually end up lifting slightly less at comp than when you're training | 14:36 |
| jrayhawk | hahaha | 14:36 |
| cpopell | because it's a binary success thing in comp | 14:36 |
| cpopell | whereas it's ok to fail in training | 14:37 |
| jrayhawk | Comps usually involve three tries. | 14:37 |
| jrayhawk | Which isn't quite binary, but it's close. | 14:37 |
| cpopell | yeah, but you're increasing each time | 14:37 |
| cpopell | if you planned it right | 14:37 |
| jrayhawk | Yeah. | 14:37 |
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| kanzure | cpopell: there's this ancient youtube video of björnsson doing a 1000 pound squat and screaming something like "there is no life without strength", do you know where it is? :\ | 14:42 |
| jrayhawk | I will say powerlifts are one of the safest sorts of comps one can do, but they're somewhat anomalous in that regard. | 14:42 |
| cpopell | kanzure: no :( | 14:42 |
| kanzure | it was a very strange video | 14:43 |
| cpopell | jrayhawk: yeah, I agree. It's way safer than dance competitions haha | 14:43 |
| kanzure | he was giving a speech basically | 14:43 |
| jrayhawk | People who powerlift at elite levels (like, higher than 2000) typically exit the competition unhealthy because they enter it unhealthy, though | 14:43 |
| cpopell | are you talking about people in the superheavyweight class? | 14:44 |
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| jrayhawk | And below, but yeah. At least oly lifters have working knees and shoulders. | 14:44 |
| cpopell | Eh :P | 14:44 |
| cpopell | I'm elite level, but at 165 | 14:44 |
| mabblebrox | a friend is doing olympic squats with knee problems | 14:44 |
| kanzure | knees can be replaced | 14:44 |
| mabblebrox | kinda like fixy bikes | 14:44 |
| mabblebrox | meh | 14:44 |
| mabblebrox | my mother got new knees | 14:45 |
| mabblebrox | still not a pretty sight | 14:45 |
| kanzure | knees are not for looking | 14:45 |
| cpopell | my total is only ~1240 | 14:45 |
| mabblebrox | like, glucosamine or whatever | 14:45 |
| kanzure | aha! here we go | 14:46 |
| kanzure | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWUcHKAj_tc | 14:46 |
| yoleaux | There is no reason to be alive if you can't do deadlift. | 14:46 |
| sheena | squats done correctly and within proper resistance ranges can help knee problems | 14:46 |
| jrayhawk | Also non-immunogenic dieting. Anti-tissue-transglutaminase is hell on joints. | 14:47 |
| mabblebrox | wow | 14:47 |
| mabblebrox | nice | 14:47 |
| mabblebrox | non-immonogenic? | 14:47 |
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| eudoxia | so in the end does kanzure use steroids to type faster or not? | 14:48 |
| mabblebrox | he told me he does | 14:48 |
| sheena | i want to know what hypothetical steroids increase.. typing speed? ...? | 14:48 |
| jrayhawk | So, you know all those stupid "shortcuts" you want to take to get bigger? | 14:48 |
| mabblebrox | uh huh | 14:48 |
| jrayhawk | the primary activity of a steroid is to decrease inflammation | 14:48 |
| mabblebrox | hm | 14:48 |
| mabblebrox | meaning? | 14:48 |
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| jrayhawk | How much trouble your body is in determines what sort of investments your body is willing to make. | 14:49 |
| eudoxia | the thing is i'm such a biopleb i can never know when he's joking or being serious about these things | 14:49 |
| mabblebrox | no, i'm usually very serious about what i talk about | 14:49 |
| jrayhawk | Fat is money in the bank, muscle is a long-term illiquid asset. | 14:49 |
| mabblebrox | ok | 14:49 |
| mabblebrox | fat == potential energy | 14:50 |
| jrayhawk | "Trouble" always eventually comes around to inflammation; anything that goes wrong needs to be cleaned up. Steroids turn off inflammation, which tricks your body into making the long term investment in muscle. | 14:50 |
| mabblebrox | muscle == energy lifter | 14:50 |
| mabblebrox | but, also shrink balls, and turn you into an aggressive asshole | 14:51 |
| jrayhawk | Muscle is also potential energy; glycerol backbones can be put to gluconeogenesis. | 14:51 |
| mabblebrox | muscle is active neergy | 14:51 |
| mabblebrox | energy | 14:51 |
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| jrayhawk | So, the not-stupid way to make gains is to avoid ever facing substantial inflammatory insults in the first place. | 14:51 |
| jrayhawk | This is what cpopell means when he talks about "eating well" | 14:52 |
| jrayhawk | and "sleeping well" | 14:52 |
| mabblebrox | i'm not trying to insult anybody | 14:52 |
| mabblebrox | well yeah, that's why i like cocaine, it lets you sleep | 14:53 |
| mabblebrox | amphetamines, don't | 14:53 |
| jrayhawk | Cocaine does nothing at all for inflammation other than fuck up the HPA axis. | 14:53 |
| mabblebrox | HPA? | 14:53 |
| jrayhawk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalamic%E2%80%93pituitary%E2%80%93adrenal_axis | 14:54 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: you may be wasting your time | 14:54 |
| -!- Burnin8 is now known as Burninate | 14:54 | |
| jrayhawk | Probably. | 14:55 |
| mabblebrox | no not at all, i'm researching this in earnest | 14:55 |
| kanzure | wasting time has long been a past time of irc | 14:55 |
| mabblebrox | I don't want to fuck myself over | 14:55 |
| mabblebrox | ok wiki says HPA is a stress hormone or somethnig | 14:55 |
| jrayhawk | ... | 14:55 |
| jrayhawk | okay, definitely | 14:55 |
| @fenn | "president francois hollande has vowed to reduce his country's dependence on nuclear power by around 2025 to 50% of all electricity produced" why the hell would he do that? | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | what's the connection to inflammation | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | lol | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | just put a reactor on the moon, duh | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | moonreactor -> laser transmitted power | 14:56 |
| @fenn | somehow nobody makes the connection between "dangerous nuclear power" and the 250+ coal miners that just died | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | this shit is all really obvious | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | lol | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | good call | 14:56 |
| mabblebrox | and yet coal miners complain about job loss | 14:57 |
| @fenn | deaths from fukushima: 0 | 14:57 |
| mabblebrox | but what, inflammation is a bigger problem than performance? | 14:57 |
| mabblebrox | what about NSAIDs? | 14:57 |
| jrayhawk | performance does not determine gains | 14:58 |
| jrayhawk | correlation is not causation | 14:58 |
| mabblebrox | ok | 14:58 |
| mabblebrox | so inflammation is the problem | 14:58 |
| jrayhawk | In large part. You also need some hormetic stimulous for tissue growth, but it doesn't have to be much. | 14:59 |
| mabblebrox | hormetic? like steroids? | 14:59 |
| @fenn | economic impact of turning off your ENTIRE FUCKING COUNTRY's nuclear power: 4% of GDP or 240 billion dollars | 14:59 |
| mabblebrox | ok but what about fallout? | 14:59 |
| jrayhawk | what would steroids be hormetic for? | 14:59 |
| mabblebrox | the technology has evolved, but you've still got natural disasters | 15:00 |
| mabblebrox | I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT HORMETIC IS | 15:00 |
| mabblebrox | dude -------> me. nub | 15:00 |
| jrayhawk | gosh if only there was some sort of information resource for looking up words | 15:00 |
| @fenn | .wik hormetic | 15:00 |
| yoleaux | "Hormesis (from Greek hórmēsis "rapid motion, eagerness," from ancient Greek hormáein "to set in motion, impel, urge on") is the term for generally favorable biological responses to low exposures to toxins and other stressors. A pollutant or toxin showing hormesis thus has the opposite effect in small doses as in large doses." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormetic | 15:00 |
| mabblebrox | yeah, how bout that | 15:00 |
| mabblebrox | but i'm lazy | 15:00 |
| mabblebrox | ok fine i'll wiki | 15:00 |
| jrayhawk | this isn't a class; you aren't going to get an A for the effort of random word association | 15:01 |
| @fenn | in this case i guess "hormetic stimulus" is exercise? | 15:01 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: if you're lazy, then you won't get stronger. | 15:01 |
| mabblebrox | true dat | 15:01 |
| mabblebrox | so hormetic is toxin buildup? | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | you're just going to get sick and dead because you don't give a shit about epistemology and you're fucking around with your health | 15:01 |
| mabblebrox | dude i'm just trying to learn here | 15:01 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: will radiation make me buff? | 15:01 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: then go read some books | 15:01 |
| mabblebrox | no i'm not currently using cocaine | 15:01 |
| mabblebrox | gah | 15:01 |
| jrayhawk | what about radioactive steroids | 15:01 |
| @fenn | buff as nutz i mean | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | fun | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | no not buff as nutz | 15:02 |
| @fenn | yeah positron emission testosterone | 15:02 |
| cpopell | I don't give a shit if you think it's 'fun' | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | too much muscle stresses the heart | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | i didn't say anything was | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | jesus, i'm just trying to research | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | a friend told me this is a good place to learn stuff | 15:02 |
| mabblebrox | if ya gonna be assholes i'll just find somewhere else | 15:03 |
| @fenn | go to a bodybuilding forum | 15:03 |
| cpopell | or a powerlifting one | 15:03 |
| mabblebrox | I don't want to bodybuild | 15:03 |
| cpopell | depending if you want to be strong or big | 15:03 |
| @fenn | right | 15:03 |
| mabblebrox | I want to bruce.lee | 15:03 |
| cpopell | I told you | 15:03 |
| cpopell | lift weights | 15:03 |
| mabblebrox | like ffffaaaaast | 15:03 |
| cpopell | do martial arts | 15:03 |
| cpopell | that's it. | 15:03 |
| mabblebrox | yeah | 15:03 |
| cpopell | you can't be bruce lee fast | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | but that's not enough, I need to accelerate | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | sure you can | 15:04 |
| cpopell | Then fuck off | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | dude there's 2 years until the next election | 15:04 |
| eudoxia | ... | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | if we don't get shit working by then, it's over | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | so, | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | bruce.lee | 15:04 |
| @fenn | i didn't follow that line of thought | 15:04 |
| cpopell | what the fuck does bruce lee have to do with the next election? | 15:04 |
| eudoxia | is that a new TTLD | 15:04 |
| cpopell | also, you can't accelerate | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | do you want a republican in office? | 15:04 |
| cpopell | the most 'acceleration' you can do is to go and work your ass off. | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | yeah | 15:04 |
| mabblebrox | but, steroids accelerate | 15:05 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: I generally don't give a shit, the overton window is shifting as is | 15:05 |
| mabblebrox | but make you an asshole | 15:05 |
| * fenn facepalms | 15:05 | |
| mabblebrox | overton? | 15:05 |
| mabblebrox | apathy will be our demise | 15:05 |
| cpopell | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window | 15:05 |
| cpopell | I'm not apathetic, I'm simply not particularly in either party's lap. | 15:05 |
| mabblebrox | well ok that would explain the absolute inefficacy of Obama | 15:06 |
| jrayhawk | 15:06 <jrayhawk> op ##hplusroadmap jrayhawk | 15:06 |
| jrayhawk | 15:06 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You are not authorized to perform this operation. | 15:06 |
| mabblebrox | because the public is so damn ignoranc | 15:06 |
| mabblebrox | ignorant | 15:06 |
| cpopell | how does this have anything to do with fitness | 15:06 |
| mabblebrox | nothing, i was just responding to that tangent | 15:06 |
| cpopell | you brought it up. | 15:07 |
| mabblebrox | ok fine my bad | 15:07 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o fenn] by ChanServ | 15:07 | |
| mabblebrox | all i'm saying, is I need to be highly effective within a 2 year time frame | 15:07 |
| cpopell | ...why 2 years | 15:07 |
| mabblebrox | because 2016 is the next election year | 15:07 |
| mabblebrox | and God help me if Mitt Romney gets elected | 15:08 |
| cpopell | I want you to spell out your train of thought, precisely. | 15:08 |
| mabblebrox | ummmmmmm | 15:08 |
| cpopell | Are you threatening to murder a political candidate? | 15:08 |
| mabblebrox | no | 15:08 |
| fenn | hm did i do that | 15:08 |
| mabblebrox | I have nothing against obama, he has demostrated nothing particularly offensive except inefficacy | 15:08 |
| mabblebrox | what I want to do | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | i think he wants to run | 15:08 |
| eudoxia | i mean that's the vague implication i got from this | 15:08 |
| mabblebrox | is mobilize the inner city population and take down China, North Korea, and Iran, and establish holistic regimes | 15:09 |
| fenn | dammit chanserv | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | so | 15:09 |
| jrayhawk | haha | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | I need to be really, really fucking strong | 15:09 |
| eudoxia | jesus christ this channel | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | seriously | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | the military is a joke | 15:09 |
| cpopell | What | 15:09 |
| cpopell | does strength | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | you have x10 the numbers in the inner cities | 15:09 |
| cpopell | have to do with the election | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | um | 15:09 |
| cpopell | wait, what | 15:09 |
| cpopell | you | 15:09 |
| cpopell | uh | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | have you ever tried to lead a gang? | 15:09 |
| cpopell | Are you schizophrenic? | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | no | 15:09 |
| mabblebrox | i'm insane | 15:09 |
| fenn | you're also stupid | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | like, tryi walking into south central and not die | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | as a white person | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | that sort of thing | 15:10 |
| jrayhawk | have you? | 15:10 |
| fenn | try leading a gang and not die, as anyone | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | unless you can gain popular support with rhetoric | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | no, i have not | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | but I hope to | 15:10 |
| eudoxia | maybe it's just me, but has there been an increase in the number of schizophrenics reaching this channel lately? | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | I would love to just cruise through Compton and throw weed out the window | 15:10 |
| mabblebrox | just me | 15:10 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o fenn] by ParahSailin | 15:11 | |
| @fenn | go do it then | 15:11 |
| jrayhawk | it's pretty much constant | 15:11 |
| mabblebrox | yeah I hope to, I need funding though | 15:11 |
| mabblebrox | and the gates family won't talk to me | 15:11 |
| @fenn | oh i am an op again | 15:11 |
| jrayhawk | ooh ooh op me op me | 15:11 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: if I was the gates family I wouldn't talk to you either | 15:11 |
| mabblebrox | yeah no doubt, they're conservo's | 15:12 |
| cpopell | no, because you're -insane- | 15:12 |
| @fenn | mabblebrox: with the power invested in me by ParahSailin, i am expected to notify you that you are lowering the signal to noise ratio of this channel | 15:12 |
| cpopell | and your ideas have to do with a literal civil uprising | 15:12 |
| mabblebrox | well, my bad | 15:12 |
| mabblebrox | yeah, duh | 15:12 |
| mabblebrox | dude where do you think crack came from? | 15:12 |
| mabblebrox | *CIA* | 15:12 |
| mabblebrox | to fund Iran-Contra | 15:12 |
| mabblebrox | so we need some justice | 15:12 |
| @fenn | please don't talk about politics, philosophy, dumb drugs, intentional violence, and other extremely off-topic things | 15:13 |
| mabblebrox | just kick me if i'm being annoying | 15:13 |
| mabblebrox | ok fine | 15:13 |
| jrayhawk | Please do | 15:13 |
| mabblebrox | meh | 15:13 |
| mabblebrox | w/e all i was trying to ascertain is the best way to attain ultimate fitness, rapidly | 15:13 |
| mabblebrox | but i'll go bleh elsewhere if this is offensive | 15:13 |
| jrayhawk | And the majority of the stuff you're saying is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong due to abysmally bad epistemology | 15:14 |
| eudoxia | i think late 2013 was the peak in terms of paranoid schizophrenics/everyone else | 15:14 |
| mabblebrox | sigh | 15:14 |
| mabblebrox | maybe | 15:14 |
| jrayhawk | it is mostly just nonsesnse | 15:14 |
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| ruphos | life is hard, being so misunderstood | 15:14 |
| mabblebrox | the moment may have passed, and we are all doomed | 15:14 |
| jrayhawk | s/snse/nse/ | 15:14 |
| mabblebrox | I just have this tendency to hope | 15:14 |
| mabblebrox | but if this is the wrong room for me to mabble i'll quit and bleh elswewher | 15:15 |
| @fenn | i find actual schizophrenics to be fascinating to talk to | 15:18 |
| @fenn | it depends on the personality of course, but you can get drawn into their alternate reality | 15:18 |
| mabblebrox | mental illness is awesome | 15:18 |
| mabblebrox | psychotic people are so entertaining | 15:19 |
| mabblebrox | it's beautiful | 15:19 |
| FourFire | kanzure, can you critique my post here please? http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/25llwz/my_immortal_dreamhayk_amirbekyan/chj07xu | 15:19 |
| mabblebrox | normal people are just boring | 15:19 |
| @fenn | yes normal people are boring, but also they are starved for genuine contact and communication | 15:19 |
| mabblebrox | indeed | 15:19 |
| mabblebrox | that's what Lateralus (of Tool) is all about | 15:19 |
| FourFire | I'm trying to, haltingly, improve the discourse and amount of stuff being done in that location | 15:19 |
| @fenn | when it takes an investment just to be able to understand what you're saying, people don't generally try to talk to you | 15:19 |
| mabblebrox | yeah true | 15:20 |
| cpopell | FourFire: Don't bother | 15:20 |
| mabblebrox | but, people read Deleuze | 15:20 |
| mabblebrox | people can't even get my level | 15:20 |
| FourFire | I know that I can't write, but maybe if I say the right things then other people will be inspired to spread the message (?) | 15:20 |
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| mabblebrox | you'd hope | 15:21 |
| mabblebrox | that's why I play music | 15:21 |
| mabblebrox | people will never read | 15:21 |
| mabblebrox | but they'll listen to a song | 15:21 |
| kanzure | 15:01 < jrayhawk> this isn't a class; you aren't going to get an A for the effort of random word association | 15:21 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: I prefer to read than listen to songs | 15:21 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: Songs don't have supporting references, generally | 15:21 |
| mabblebrox | well you're not normal then :-P | 15:21 |
| mabblebrox | dude listen to the Chili Peppers | 15:21 |
| mabblebrox | they say all you need to know | 15:21 |
| cpopell | Also, I don't care for metaphor when someone's trying to make a point on policy or science. | 15:22 |
| mabblebrox | sigh | 15:22 |
| mabblebrox | so, no answer to the original question? | 15:22 |
| mabblebrox | i'm getting bored | 15:22 |
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| cpopell | your original question is 'how can I be an anime character' | 15:23 |
| cpopell | the answer is 'you can't' | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | no 'how can I attain to the level of Bruce Lee rapidly' | 15:23 |
| cpopell | yes, this is the same thing | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | fine | 15:23 |
| cpopell | you want a training montage | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | yeah | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | real fast too | 15:23 |
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| cpopell | bruce lee trained for something like 17 years | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | mhm | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | i don't have that much time | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | this is transhumanism, i thought somebody might have an idea | 15:23 |
| mabblebrox | apparently it's up to me | 15:24 |
| mabblebrox | thanks for the help | 15:24 |
| cpopell | sorry, 20 years | 15:24 |
| eudoxia | exactly, this is an h+ channel, so people are more likely to take the long view on some things :> | 15:24 |
| mabblebrox | yeah i've done basics, tai chi, etc | 15:24 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o kanzure] by ChanServ | 15:24 | |
| mabblebrox | well i need results, fast | 15:24 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+o jrayhawk] by kanzure | 15:24 | |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: What if you can't have them? | 15:24 |
| @fenn | you can study what scientists have learned about muscle metabolism in order to learn what does and doesn't work | 15:24 |
| mabblebrox | all i thought was, either cocaine, or steroids, cautiously used | 15:24 |
| mabblebrox | meh | 15:25 |
| mabblebrox | call me a fool then | 15:25 |
| @fenn | "an hour in the library saves months in the lab" | 15:25 |
| mabblebrox | i'll let the planet die without a second though | 15:25 |
| mabblebrox | thought | 15:25 |
| @kanzure | an hour in irc makes a bunch of transhumanists angry at you | 15:25 |
| mabblebrox | yes, apparently so. | 15:25 |
| @fenn | yeah we're not really a library, not even a reference desk | 15:25 |
| @kanzure | hi how can i help you go fuck yourself? | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | well, like i said, i'm a nub | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | i'm just asking questions nobody would ask | 15:26 |
| @kanzure | i don't care how much of a nub or doorstop you are | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | because i'm insane | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | well fine | 15:26 |
| @fenn | we get these questions from people all the time, and it's annoying | 15:26 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: Do the ground work, or get out. | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | nobody has ever had to deal with what I have to | 15:26 |
| cpopell | mabblebrox: I'm sure there are plenty of insane men who decided they wanted to take over the country. | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | well w/e i'll stop bothering you guys | 15:26 |
| mabblebrox | apparently it's not the right locale | 15:27 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o entelechy] by kanzure | 15:27 | |
| @kanzure | wait, hm | 15:27 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-q entelechy!*@*] by kanzure | 15:27 | |
| mabblebrox | but, as i leave, I say: Kanzure, | 15:27 |
| mabblebrox | steroids ... for typing. | 15:27 |
| mabblebrox | dude. | 15:27 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+b *!*mabblebro@*] by jrayhawk | 15:27 | |
| @kanzure | adderall is not a steroid | 15:27 |
| @fenn | don't feed the troll | 15:27 |
| eudoxia | you've said goodbye like three times | 15:27 |
| -!- mabblebrox [~mabblebro@cpe-24-26-139-8.columbus.res.rr.com] has quit [] | 15:28 | |
| @jrayhawk | oh, yes, -q would be better, huh | 15:28 |
| @kanzure | +q | 15:28 |
| * kanzure snickers | 15:28 | |
| @fenn | d00dz i need to exercise my op skilz so i can megaban like lightning bruce.l33t | 15:29 |
| @kanzure | bruce l33t hah | 15:29 |
| FourFire | "<eudoxia> i think late 2013 was the peak in terms of paranoid schizophrenics/everyone else" the peak where, in this channel? | 15:29 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [+q mabblebrox!*@*] by jrayhawk | 15:29 | |
| eudoxia | yes | 15:29 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b *!*mabblebro@*] by jrayhawk | 15:29 | |
| @kanzure | hahaha | 15:29 |
| cpopell | what's +q? | 15:29 |
| @fenn | quiet | 15:30 |
| cpopell | ah | 15:30 |
| @kanzure | it's like gagging them | 15:30 |
| FourFire | kanzure, is that a negative then? | 15:30 |
| eudoxia | why can't it just say quiet | 15:30 |
| @fenn | how do we deliver cheese whiz over IRC | 15:30 |
| eudoxia | it's like those goddamn unix permission numbers | 15:30 |
| @kanzure | it's almost like irc was a poorly designed piece of crap? | 15:30 |
| FourFire | cpopell, why should I not bother, are there far superior ways of attaining what I want? | 15:30 |
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| cpopell | FourFire: You aren't going to improve the signal noise ratio of futurology | 15:31 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: so you got that last one wrong | 15:31 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-b *!*mabblebro@*] by kanzure | 15:31 | |
| @kanzure | wow why did the x disappear? | 15:31 |
| @jrayhawk | What was wrong? | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | it was mabblebrox | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | oh the ban was mabblebro | 15:32 |
| @jrayhawk | Not the localpart, no | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | oh right, local | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | yes i see now | 15:32 |
| @kanzure | i should feel less bad about my instincts about irc users | 15:33 |
| @kanzure | have i had any false positives? | 15:33 |
| FourFire | cpopell, so, are there places that you suggest frequenting instead which already have a greater signal/noise ratio and which discuss similar topics? | 15:34 |
| @kanzure | i mean, false positives when detecting terrible people | 15:34 |
| @fenn | escapist | 15:34 |
| cpopell | FourFire: Topical, really | 15:34 |
| @fenn | why is there no ##bodybuilding | 15:35 |
| FourFire | this channel is a bit small, and I don't really feel like I have anything to add, there's like 8-12 regularly active here | 15:35 |
| @kanzure | i gave escapist a fair shot, but he was just pissed that i was answreing his questions | 15:35 |
| @kanzure | *answering | 15:35 |
| @kanzure | plus, i didn't actually ban him | 15:35 |
| FourFire | so kanzure nothing? | 15:35 |
| @fenn | but you were asking about "detecting" | 15:35 |
| @fenn | i think it's generally good to explain to people why they suck before banning them | 15:35 |
| @fenn | unless it's a repeat offender | 15:35 |
| @kanzure | good point, yes i did say detecting | 15:36 |
| @fenn | also, mental illness is not an excuse for being an ass | 15:37 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: the only solution is not to seek out signal/noise like that, but produce your own signal | 15:37 |
| FourFire | kanzure, so, what I'm doing in the subreddit is wrong, or correct or do you mean I should be active in here with interesting and relevant things? | 15:38 |
| @kanzure | i used to think that there's no bodybuilding irc culture because the cultures are non-intersecting, but now i'm not so sure | 15:38 |
| @kanzure | which subreddit? | 15:38 |
| @fenn | there are zillions of bodybuilding forums, either way it's text-based communication | 15:38 |
| FourFire | http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/ | 15:38 |
| FourFire | did you even look at my post? | 15:38 |
| @kanzure | fenn, yes and there's a bunch of thoughtful bodybuilder people. jojack for instance. | 15:38 |
| @jrayhawk | 'bodybuilding' is pretty narrow; maybe 'exercise physiology' or, more primitively, 'fitness' would get better results? | 15:39 |
| @fenn | 'fitness' is too broad | 15:39 |
| @kanzure | bodybuilding is narrow but it has wide scope in terms of "people who have been unnecessarily ostracized" | 15:40 |
| @kanzure | or at least, some of them | 15:40 |
| @fenn | "Strength is not an absolute value. To be strong is to evolve. Mutability is strength. Evolution is a string of victories by the strong over the meek. The meek shall not inherit the Earth." | 15:40 |
| @kanzure | i shouldn't glamorize it too much, there's a bunch of idiots i'm sure | 15:40 |
| -!- not_unoriginal [~helpcompu@172.56.40.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 15:41 | |
| @fenn | not exactly the quote i was looking for, but it'll do | 15:41 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: sorry, which post? | 15:42 |
| @jrayhawk | google indicates irc://irc.chat4all.net/#bodybuilding.com might be relevant | 15:42 |
| @kanzure | oh yeah, "the 4chan of steroid users".. so that's bound to be interesting. | 15:42 |
| FourFire | kanzure, http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/25llwz/my_immortal_dreamhayk_amirbekyan/chj07xu | 15:42 |
| pasky | frankly, i'd have strong tendency to ostracize bodybuilders too, isn't that just an exercise in vanity, to look in a particular way? i admire people who are strong, have high endurance etc., but bodybuilders? | 15:43 |
| FourFire | I want you to critique it, maybe there's something I can say better, or less stupidly | 15:43 |
| @kanzure | FourFire: well, a plan is an okay direction | 15:43 |
| @kanzure | almost like a roadmap or something | 15:43 |
| @kanzure | some sort of roadmap for hplus things, i dunno | 15:43 |
| @kanzure | gosh | 15:43 |
| eudoxia | has the lifeboat foundation actually done anything | 15:44 |
| @kanzure | the lifeboat foundation did mastercoin | 15:44 |
| eudoxia | other than recruit half the united states into their board | 15:44 |
| FourFire | eudoxia, I was only outlining that there are lots of causes people can follow | 15:44 |
| FourFire | not that i endorsed any of them in particular | 15:44 |
| @kanzure | .d vanity | 15:44 |
| yoleaux | vanity (/ˈvanɪti/): n. (vanities) 1. Excessive pride in or admiration of one’s own appearance or achievements: it flattered his ⁓ to think I was in love with him — http://is.gd/5gowSQ | 15:44 |
| FourFire | note that I didn't link SENS in the post | 15:44 |
| @fenn | pasky: but then you start ostracising the bodymodders and transgenders and where does it stop? | 15:45 |
| eudoxia | FourFire: i don't know much about SENS. why is it bad or something? | 15:45 |
| pasky | i don't know about transgenders | 15:45 |
| @kanzure | pasky: it's not just about appearances htough | 15:45 |
| @fenn | i'd rather encourage what's important than discourage "sins" | 15:45 |
| @kanzure | pasky: it's about showing that you can manipulate the body in certain ways | 15:45 |
| FourFire | eudoxia, I'm the sort of person who would support/advocate SENS over other causes | 15:45 |
| @jrayhawk | http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?chat=body+building | 15:45 |
| @kanzure | irc.chat4all.net/#bodybuilding.com is kinda small | 15:46 |
| pasky | i guess i borrowed the word "ostracize" rather carelessly, they just seem kind of silly to me, no strong feelings :) | 15:46 |
| @kanzure | yes it's partly silly | 15:47 |
| @fenn | i feel the same way about cars | 15:47 |
| @kanzure | but it's not morally evil because steroids, or because they are strong when others are not | 15:47 |
| @fenn | transport is important, propulsion engineering is important, but "go faster" is kinda pointless in an internal combustion engine | 15:47 |
| @fenn | the difference between mr. Bjornsson and me is miniscule in the scale of the universe | 15:47 |
| pasky | kanzure: you have a good point there, but i'll still much more admire people who *use* the way they modify their body rather than just *show* it | 15:47 |
| pasky | oh of course, i didn't mean to imply it's morally evil | 15:48 |
| @kanzure | yeah, i didn't mean to imply that you implied that, but it's something in the popular consensus rather | 15:48 |
| pasky | i guess | 15:48 |
| @kanzure | i am not sure there are any jobs that require you to be really jacked up like that | 15:48 |
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| @fenn | model | 15:48 |
| @kanzure | 3d models are better at it | 15:49 |
| @kanzure | uncanny dungeon and such | 15:49 |
| @fenn | mutagenic menagerie | 15:49 |
| @fenn | how bout them cows | 15:49 |
| @fenn | .wik bull terrier | 15:49 |
| yoleaux | "The Bull Terrier is a breed of dog in the terrier family. There is also a miniature version of this breed which is officially known as the Miniature Bull Terrier." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bull_terrier | 15:49 |
| @fenn | wrong dog | 15:50 |
| @kanzure | jrayhawk: if i was to add you and fenn to the op list, do i want SOP, AOP, HOP, or VOP? | 15:51 |
| @kanzure | it looks like at least HOP? | 15:51 |
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| @kanzure | /query chanserv flags ##hplusroadmap fenn +o | 15:52 |
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| @kanzure | hmm i didn't consider this but maybe the reason for the new influx of users is because reddit.com added http://reddit.com/r/futorology to the front page | 15:55 |
| @fenn | gee thanks reddit | 15:56 |
| @kanzure | no kidding | 15:56 |
| eudoxia | https://www.google.com/?#newwindow=1&q=site:reddit.com+%22%23%23hplusroadmap%22 | 15:57 |
| eudoxia | not that many results | 15:57 |
| @kanzure | true | 15:57 |
| @kanzure | but i also worry about second-order effects | 15:57 |
| @kanzure | how many hops from http://reddit.com/r/futorology to something that gets them here | 15:57 |
| eudoxia | without direct linking, it seems this channel is a little too obscure for the average r/futurologist to find it | 15:57 |
| eudoxia | haha i found cpopell http://www.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/zq56m/im_dr_ben_goertzel_artificial_general/c66s6e8 | 15:58 |
| * eudoxia waves | 15:58 | |
| @kanzure | "Humanity+ doesn't represent the movement in an adequate manner, otherwise groups like hplusroadmap wouldn't have splintered off." | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | "They were the originals. The splinter groups should re-brand themselves rather than stealing the More's hard from the past 2 decades." | 15:58 |
| @fenn | "fantastic resources for when you need questions answered RIGHT THIS MOMENT" - delinquentme | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | no no no we're the people's front of fucking judiah | 15:58 |
| @kanzure | fenn: "My method of learning is to ask ParahSailin until he cries" - delinquentme | 15:59 |
| eudoxia | http://www.reddit.com/r/bioinformatics/comments/owgx0/im_recruiting_awesome_brains_for_a_few_irc/ and this was by delinquentme | 15:59 |
| @kanzure | "hplusroadmap is invite only" i wish | 15:59 |
| @kanzure | the problem with invite only is that i wouldn't ever be able to convince the hardware people to show up | 16:00 |
| @kanzure | "well first you have to register with this thing called nickserv.." | 16:01 |
| delinquentme | I wonder if Ill ever learn that some people just want to be fucks for no good reason | 16:01 |
| -!- mode/##hplusroadmap [-o kanzure] by kanzure | 16:02 | |
| delinquentme | including those thoe navel-gaze to infinity | 16:02 |
| kanzure | yes.. navel-gazing. that's exactly what's happening here. sure.. | 16:02 |
| delinquentme | kanzure with the " dont post shit from reddit " | 16:02 |
| kanzure | xentrac posted a really good reddit link | 16:02 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, "but it's not morally evil because steroids, or because they are strong when others are not" | 16:02 |
| kanzure | unfortunately it was a reddit link to his own comment on reddit, which wouldn't have been there if it wasn't him | 16:02 |
| delinquentme | like thats not fucking 30 lines up | 16:02 |
| delinquentme | fuck off about it or dont help | 16:03 |
| kanzure | you should read that as "just because it is steroids does not mean it is morally evil" | 16:03 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, I read 'navel-gazing' | 16:03 |
| kanzure | i'm confusede | 16:03 |
| kanzure | -e | 16:04 |
| cpopell | marshallp is crazy btw. | 16:06 |
| delinquentme | seriously kanzure leaders do not behave the way you do | 16:06 |
| kanzure | they don't kick and ban people? | 16:07 |
| delinquentme | but theres fuck all I can do about it if your leadership style is derived from 4chan | 16:07 |
| delinquentme | IDK if fenn is any better here with the typical " SHAME PEOPLE WHO DO IT DIFFERENTLY" | 16:08 |
| @fenn | SHAME | 16:08 |
| delinquentme | but thats a choice, again, that is up to either of you | 16:08 |
| kanzure | uh yeah, shame... sure. | 16:08 |
| @fenn | problem is that shame doesn't work on morons | 16:09 |
| FourFire | so kanzure is there anything more you have to say about my post besides that I should have linked diyhpl.us/wiki/ in my post? | 16:09 |
| kanzure | FourFire: i don't think i said that though | 16:09 |
| delinquentme | fenn, I do believe I shoved your face in shit the other day and consequently was quiet and cool about it | 16:09 |
| kanzure | FourFire: you might want to include some metric for evaluating whether or not a plan is working, or whether or not a plan is a good idea | 16:09 |
| delinquentme | How do you deal with it when you show people up? Looks like you dance around. | 16:09 |
| delinquentme | fucking half males | 16:10 |
| @fenn | yeah you're so mature | 16:10 |
| kanzure | let's have a database that keeps track of how much face everyone has, and then redistribute face from the facerich to the facepoor | 16:10 |
| delinquentme | fenn, YES good default behavior ... " BUT HE DID IT FIRST ! " | 16:10 |
| eudoxia | facecoin | 16:10 |
| eudoxia | wait that might collide with a facepunch studios project | 16:11 |
| kanzure | phew glad we avoided that catastrophe | 16:11 |
| kanzure | for a moment there i thought it was a genuinely bad idea | 16:11 |
| @fenn | kanzure: it's called whuffie, or at least it was supposed to be before it was raped by twitter and abandoned on an exit ramp of the information superhighway | 16:11 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, | 16:11 |
| delinquentme | who the fuck taught you how to behave? | 16:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: i don't actually believe in face in this context | 16:11 |
| kanzure | fenn: i'm obviously being sarcastic.. face doesn't matter at all. | 16:12 |
| delinquentme | again. stupid conversations. | 16:12 |
| delinquentme | fuck this. | 16:12 |
| * fenn waves | 16:12 | |
| kanzure | btw, "shame people who do it differently" is just in your head | 16:13 |
| delinquentme | Nah I think i'm learning life lessons here | 16:14 |
| delinquentme | that you can be quite accepting of people and some people are just going to be fucks | 16:14 |
| @fenn | you can abuse a resource and then pretend you have been abused | 16:14 |
| kanzure | where do you get this from | 16:14 |
| @fenn | classy | 16:14 |
| @jrayhawk | kanzure: I would suggest ignoring the templates and go through the flags yourself | 16:15 |
| delinquentme | fenn, I'm projecting here, yes, but I guess I'm wrong to think that people can be decent to one another | 16:15 |
| kanzure | jrayhawk: is there any problem with just setting +o on you | 16:15 |
| delinquentme | especially when were talking non-zero sum resources | 16:15 |
| kanzure | being decent just to be decent is disgusting | 16:16 |
| kanzure | and wrong | 16:16 |
| kanzure | it's a complete violation of the concept of decency | 16:16 |
| @fenn | somebody think of the children | 16:16 |
| @jrayhawk | sounds fine to me | 16:16 |
| kanzure | STOTC doesn't seem to apply there? | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, you're a funny fat fuck | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | Funny people are good for that | 16:17 |
| delinquentme | It sucks that you carry that baggage into adulthood | 16:17 |
| kanzure | enlighten me | 16:18 |
| delinquentme | but I don't suppose that you have something funny to say about that | 16:18 |
| cpopell | delinquentme: I like how you're now trying to psychoanalyze him now. | 16:18 |
| delinquentme | cpopell, what are you contributing here? | 16:18 |
| delinquentme | cpopell, yes thats exactly what im doing. | 16:18 |
| delinquentme | and? | 16:18 |
| kanzure | he is telling you that he likes something | 16:18 |
| cpopell | It amuses me. | 16:19 |
| kanzure | he is telling you that it amuses him | 16:19 |
| delinquentme | and why is it funny | 16:19 |
| delinquentme | come on in now | 16:19 |
| kanzure | get back to me | 16:19 |
| delinquentme | contribute to the circle jerk! | 16:19 |
| eudoxia | i think the implication is that you should have psychoanalyzed him earlier? | 16:19 |
| cpopell | delinquentme: I have no idea what my role in this channel is except at the moment, but at least in the last year I've usually refrained from popping up with inane ideas and then disappearing again when people are frustrated with me (with a couple exceptions) | 16:20 |
| kanzure | cpopell: that's not the only problem at play.. there's other issues like a really broken theory of mind or learning. | 16:20 |
| delinquentme | consider the environment you want to foster here kanzure | 16:20 |
| kanzure | cpopell: ("learning can only be achieved by talking to ParahSailin") | 16:21 |
| kanzure | frankly this is a great enivronment | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | cpopell, I dont really have anything to say to you | 16:21 |
| kanzure | it is the strongest transhumanism group ever, by orders of magnitude | 16:21 |
| delinquentme | kanzure, hahahaha | 16:21 |
| kanzure | i am glad it amuses you, because frankly it makes me cry | 16:22 |
| delinquentme | I would bet that mantra is more fun than porn for you huh? | 16:22 |
| delinquentme | Speaking of being productive ! | 16:22 |
| delinquentme | yay! | 16:22 |
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| cpopell | Where the fuck does his money come from? | 16:22 |
| cpopell | he's always buying shit and lives in SF | 16:23 |
| kanzure | integrated plasmonics, a few ruby/rails gigs | 16:23 |
| FourFire | kanzure, well I'm not really sure, do you think I'm onto something with this thing I call "Progress" or am I just talking out of my ass? | 16:23 |
| FourFire | because an indication of whether "a plan" is working would be a greater amount of observed effects of "progress" | 16:23 |
| juri_ | i build printers. :) | 16:24 |
| kanzure | FourFire: dunno what to tell you | 16:24 |
| kanzure | like, "and it is important that different people work in parallel on all of the different causes" is a cheap way of dodging important questions | 16:25 |
| FourFire | "facepoor" | 16:25 |
| FourFire | ... | 16:25 |
| kanzure | "well, instead of figuring it out, i'm just going to allocate resources in parallel to everything" | 16:25 |
| kanzure | which seems like a possibly wrong allocation strategy | 16:26 |
| dingo | mm | 16:27 |
| dingo | doing everything very poorly, generally, is the outcome | 16:28 |
| @jrayhawk | i am sad because delinquentme didn't criticize me | 16:30 |
| kanzure | he probably doesn't even know you exist | 16:30 |
| kanzure | you are like a shadow | 16:30 |
| cpopell | I have him on facebook for some ungodly reason | 16:31 |
| kanzure | i've opted not to ban him because for all of his problems he does actually tend to tinker around with hardware | 16:31 |
| kanzure | but this may be wrong on my part | 16:31 |
| @jrayhawk | I am not a shadow! I am totally worth devaluing/externalizing! | 16:32 |
| @jrayhawk | grumble grumble | 16:32 |
| @jrayhawk | This was pretty uncharacteristic for him, so it may have just been a bad day or something. | 16:32 |
| @jrayhawk | A temporary regression to a black and white thinking. | 16:33 |
| kanzure | have we ever made any progress on him in any area whatsoever? | 16:33 |
| kanzure | gee i hope i didn't tell him to move to sf, i hope that's not the only thing he's listened to | 16:35 |
| kanzure | seems like he got that idea from other directions anyway | 16:35 |
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| @ParahSailin | heh | 16:41 |
| kanzure | //modified by NIZHNY-MZV Thu Apr 20 09:34:33 2000 | 16:43 |
| kanzure | //see comments at the top of file TopOpeBRepBuild_Builder1.cxx | 16:43 |
| kanzure | //about using of this global variable | 16:43 |
| kanzure | GLOBAL_USE_NEW_BUILDER = Standard_True; | 16:43 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/tpaviot/oce/blob/master/src/BRepAlgo/BRepAlgo_BooleanOperation.cxx | 16:44 |
| FourFire | kanzure, ok I surely worded that one poorly | 16:44 |
| @fenn | Standard_True is better than Custom_True | 16:44 |
| kanzure | Done(); return; what was the point of this? | 16:45 |
| kanzure | global state locking? | 16:45 |
| FourFire | what I meant was that there are loads of different things which must be worked on, and we, humans can do so much more efficiently with specialization, so, even though I don't know much about or show interest in *all of these specialized areas* they are still important to humanity's efforts as a whole | 16:45 |
| kanzure | i am not interested in making statements about humanity-as-a-whole | 16:46 |
| kanzure | making broad statements on that topic is probably much more difficult than making the normal kind of statement | 16:46 |
| @ParahSailin | wow, now i understand "need questions answered RIGHT THIS MOMENT" | 16:47 |
| FourFire | kanzure, so avoiding even mentioning that relevant topic entirely is a less cheap method than doing it poorly? | 16:47 |
| @fenn | pretty sure i wrote something about this | 16:48 |
| kanzure | can you be more specific, the "relevant topic" is the reddit thread that i didn't read? | 16:48 |
| @ParahSailin | no reddit | 16:48 |
| FourFire | ""well, instead of figuring it out, i'm just going to allocate resources in parallel to everything"" when I say this what I mean is that other people should specialize in the other areas | 16:49 |
| kanzure | i'm having trouble determining if the Perform() method in that file is the entirety of the boolean operation code.. i thought there was a bunch of knot stuff you had to do for surface-surface intersection. | 16:50 |
| FourFire | I'm trying to make myself more credible by pinting out that I don't think that "the one true way" is to work on anti-aging and regenerative medicine technology | 16:50 |
| @fenn | FourFire: an outline of thoughts on "what is important" from a year ago ish http://fennetic.net/irc/hplusroadmap.draft | 16:51 |
| FourFire | I'm trying to defanaticise myself in the eye of the reader, and clearly I'm not doing it very well | 16:51 |
| @ParahSailin | unsafeLaunchMissiles is totally safe | 16:51 |
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| delinquentme | So listen. What exactly is it that you guys want to see out of this channel? | 16:51 |
| kanzure | FourFire: transhumanism is more of a process rather than a list of "one true way" things | 16:52 |
| @ParahSailin | lack of googling | 16:52 |
| kanzure | FourFire: it's about building technology | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | The specifics on how I use it in asking questions here, adding efficiencies to what I'm looking into ... is bad? | 16:52 |
| kanzure | FourFire: with some bounds on it | 16:52 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: yes | 16:52 |
| @ParahSailin | perhaps r/askscience or something is what you actually want | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | How is this channel better used fenn? | 16:52 |
| @fenn | that is called "taking and not giving back" | 16:52 |
| delinquentme | Okay, how should a good member of the channel be giving back? | 16:53 |
| delinquentme | yes I know I could be working on paperbot | 16:53 |
| delinquentme | whos still not present | 16:53 |
| @fenn | answer as many questions as you ask | 16:53 |
| @ParahSailin | github.com/kanzure/paperbot.git | 16:53 |
| @ParahSailin | is present | 16:53 |
| FourFire | kanzure, yeah, exactly, I'm saying that I don't think *what I happen to be into* is a "one true way" I even say "There is no single greatest cause for everyone to follow so far as I can determine, just a vague direction which I will tentatively call "Progress"" | 16:54 |
| kanzure | paperbot is an okay example, but in general, hardware projects | 16:54 |
| delinquentme | paperbot is something everyone uses so thats a good " tides raise all the ships " kind of thing | 16:54 |
| @ParahSailin | i would probably be more forgiving of dumb questions if you proved yourself useful somehow | 16:55 |
| kanzure | your prototype of a pipetting machine is one of the reasons i haven't permabanned you yet | 16:55 |
| delinquentme | OpSci | 16:55 |
| delinquentme | this channel is listed on the codebase | 16:56 |
| @fenn | speaking of hardware projects, i'm talking to clock in #brlcad and he's pointing at his hardware directory and asking for donations to finish the latest project http://www.twibright.com/hw.php | 16:56 |
| @fenn | i told him he should accept bitcoin and that i had no bitcoins | 16:56 |
| kanzure | how much money does he want | 16:56 |
| @fenn | $2500 | 16:56 |
| kanzure | and what is the project | 16:56 |
| @fenn | feeding himself i guess. the project was a water distillation device for third world something something | 16:57 |
| kanzure | um, aren't there 1000 million orgs that are doing water distillation device funding | 16:57 |
| @fenn | that's what i thought but i could be wrong | 16:57 |
| @fenn | NGOs have terrible efficiencies at actually doing stuff | 16:57 |
| kanzure | yes, but many of them do <$5k grants on random projects, which a water distillation thing would probably qualify for | 16:58 |
| kanzure | my point is, i'm not going to give him $2.5k for that heh | 16:58 |
| @ParahSailin | nobody in third world actually needs water distillation device | 16:58 |
| @fenn | right, i'm not sure what to say | 16:58 |
| @ParahSailin | clean drinking water is a solved problem | 16:58 |
| @fenn | uh, what? | 16:58 |
| delinquentme | ^ | 16:58 |
| @fenn | i think distillation is overkill, but clean water is not a solved problem | 16:59 |
| @ParahSailin | yeah, you fill liter water bottles up with water and you sit them in the sunshine for a day | 16:59 |
| @ParahSailin | this is ghetto tek and it works 100% of the time all the time | 16:59 |
| delinquentme | I'm not sure thats denaturing viruses * | 16:59 |
| @ParahSailin | delinquentme: listen to the experts | 16:59 |
| delinquentme | Am I wrong? | 16:59 |
| @ParahSailin | you are | 17:00 |
| @jrayhawk | viruses are pretty fragile | 17:00 |
| @fenn | what about water with high turbidity, pesticides, heavy metals | 17:00 |
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| @ParahSailin | fenn yeah, those are still problems | 17:00 |
| delinquentme | jrayhawk, sure but I'm missing how they're getting destroyed | 17:01 |
| delinquentme | " the sunshine protocol " | 17:01 |
| @fenn | thymidine dimer formation i think | 17:01 |
| @ParahSailin | sunshine contains vitamin d and x rays | 17:01 |
| @fenn | and happiness | 17:01 |
| @fenn | little known fact: happiness is ionizing radiation | 17:02 |
| @fenn | this is why thunderstorms smell good | 17:02 |
| kanzure | i always wondered about that | 17:02 |
| @fenn | ParahSailin: the sun trick is good to know though; why did it take so long to become general knowledge? (is it?) | 17:03 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, so the Xrays make sense ... vitamin D is created within the body which is assisted by vitamin D | 17:03 |
| @jrayhawk | haha | 17:03 |
| @ParahSailin | delinquentme: false, vitamin d is an isotope of heavy oxygen formed by cosmic rays | 17:04 |
| delinquentme | lol sorry sunlight | 17:04 |
| @ParahSailin | fenn: i think theres a stigma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_water_disinfection | 17:04 |
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| @ParahSailin | fenn: it makes you feel like a third worlder if you have hundreds of water bottles on the corrugated roof of your shack | 17:05 |
| @fenn | i see | 17:05 |
| @fenn | dying of dysentery is so much more dignified | 17:06 |
| @fenn | does this work on overcast days | 17:07 |
| kanzure | maybe you can use a giant lense on overcast days | 17:07 |
| @fenn | you can make a giant lens out of water.. coincidence?! | 17:08 |
| @fenn | i hate those crinkly bottles | 17:08 |
| @ParahSailin | send crinkly bottles to rhodesia | 17:09 |
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| kanzure | why isn't clock in here? | 17:10 |
| @fenn | "You need sunny weather, or two days of overcast sky, to reach the maximum effectiveness. SODIS becomes less effective as you travel away from the equator. You cannot use it in rain; it offers no residual disinfection; it may be less effective against bacterial spores and cyst stages of some parasites" | 17:10 |
| kanzure | i wonder if you can have a material that will track sunlight | 17:11 |
| kanzure | and then you can look at the color to determine whether or not the bottle is ready | 17:11 |
| @fenn | for a second i was thinking MEMS mirror array paint | 17:11 |
| kanzure | could just be a dye | 17:11 |
| @ParahSailin | lol, no you need to go more russian ghetto tek | 17:11 |
| kanzure | photodiode? | 17:11 |
| FourFire | "<ParahSailin> nobody in third world actually needs water distillation device" what? | 17:12 |
| delinquentme | fenn, thats a process used in making really large lenses... You'll get a nice big parabola when you spin a liquid while it sets | 17:12 |
| @ParahSailin | it needs to be a monkey model | 17:12 |
| delinquentme | +1 How its made | 17:12 |
| @fenn | delinquentme: you can put water over a stretched plastic film and it will make a catenary (hyperbola) | 17:12 |
| @ParahSailin | bangladesh needs water distillation, but generally, water bottles in the sun will do it for most people | 17:13 |
| @fenn | kinda hard to control the focal length though | 17:13 |
| FourFire | ParahSailin, direct your attention to the "water" section: http://www.worldometers.info/ | 17:14 |
| kanzure | a single photodiode will probably work | 17:14 |
| kanzure | or even a thermometer | 17:14 |
| kanzure | temperature correlates with sunlight exposure. have one thermometer per 10 m^2 of bottles. | 17:14 |
| @fenn | how about e. coli | 17:14 |
| @ParahSailin | FourFire: you are probably not paying attention to this conversation, so i wont bother responding | 17:14 |
| @fenn | lactobacillus spores | 17:14 |
| kanzure | fenn, and then check under a microscope? | 17:14 |
| @fenn | no, plate on agar | 17:14 |
| FourFire | ParahSailin, I am so! | 17:14 |
| kanzure | plating on agar takes too long i think? | 17:14 |
| kanzure | takes more than an hour to see a colony | 17:15 |
| kanzure | you should just be able to look at a bottle and "know" | 17:15 |
| @ParahSailin | do you have some ability to not read messages i say? | 17:15 |
| @fenn | i can't think of anything else that measures what you want to measure | 17:15 |
| kanzure | you should instantly know "This is less likely to kill me" without wondering "how many clouds passed over me yesterday" | 17:15 |
| FourFire | I have the disability to not be able to read everything that's going on all at once | 17:15 |
| @ParahSailin | k, scroll up, and im not gonna give you any hints where to look | 17:15 |
| sheena | what us airport has the most direct flights to locations around the us? | 17:16 |
| @ParahSailin | chicago? | 17:16 |
| @jrayhawk | Yeah, I'm not finding anything about distillation on this page. | 17:16 |
| @jrayhawk | or possibly Denver | 17:16 |
| kanzure | sheena: atlanta, charlotte, dallas-fort worth, houston, detroit, in that order | 17:17 |
| sheena | kanzure: source? | 17:18 |
| kanzure | my ass :( | 17:18 |
| FourFire | ParahSailin, if you looked at my link you would see that there are still plenty of people dying due to waterborne disease | 17:18 |
| kanzure | sheena: oh, how about this http://www.bbc.com/travel/blog/20130205-which-are-the-best-us-airports-for-connections (but this isn't direct) | 17:18 |
| @jrayhawk | FourFire: That is orthogonal to ParahSailin's claim. | 17:18 |
| FourFire | so, unless those statistics are incorrect, or people really do kill themselves due to pride "100% of the time" then it isn't a solved problem | 17:18 |
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| @fenn | pretty sure education is a big component of the problem | 17:19 |
| @jrayhawk | A distribution and education problem is not the same as a methodological or production problem. | 17:19 |
| kanzure | another lowtech way is to just get weather reports from the interwebz | 17:20 |
| kanzure | and if it was cloudy the whole day, less sunlight | 17:20 |
| @fenn | or just leave stuff out for two days instead of one | 17:20 |
| kanzure | but chances of it being cloudy two days in a row are.. actually i don't know. | 17:20 |
| kanzure | it's not impossible | 17:20 |
| @fenn | the sun goes around like clockwork :P | 17:20 |
| sheena | kanzure: how do you know this stuf? it's just a fact you keep in your brain? | 17:20 |
| @fenn | i think 2 days of overcast is enough | 17:20 |
| kanzure | sheena: lots of travel.. i get routed to a bunch of places. but also, i am superfast at google. | 17:21 |
| kanzure | "gee i wonder why i keep going through houston" | 17:21 |
| @ParahSailin | there might be places in the world where people are dying of cholera and dont even have access to crinkly water bottles | 17:22 |
| sheena | i tried to google. just did not work. poop | 17:22 |
| @ParahSailin | in that case, we should promote distribution of crinkly water bottles to them, not stills | 17:22 |
| sheena | dog group wants to hold a seminar but doenst care where. seems logical to me for them to hold it in the most accessible city via airport.. ye? | 17:22 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: maybe they can just go to the shore and find a few dying water bottle turtles | 17:23 |
| @jrayhawk | people still go hungry in the world, we need to develop portable soylent factories! | 17:24 |
| kanzure | sheena: also pick somewhere with lots of dog people? | 17:24 |
| @jrayhawk | structure collapses still happen in the world, we need to develop carbon fiber factories! | 17:24 |
| sheena | obviously | 17:24 |
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| @jrayhawk | people still die of exposure, we need to develop artifical mink coats! | 17:25 |
| kanzure | for your dog brain surgery, would you be willing to do it in the US? opens up your options for who | 17:25 |
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| clock | hi all | 17:27 |
| @fenn | hello we are talking about solar water disinfection | 17:27 |
| kanzure | you may be interested in the backlog about solar water phased arrays http://gnusha.org/logs/2014-05-15.log | 17:27 |
| kanzure | fenn, langton labs should rename their burner group from phage to phase | 17:28 |
| clock | fenn, yes related topic to my http://ronja.twibright.com/distillcooker/ :) | 17:28 |
| @fenn | kanzure: naw, the whole point is it's a mind virus | 17:28 |
| kanzure | see, i always thought twibright.com was that other guy that was in here | 17:28 |
| @fenn | clock``? :P | 17:29 |
| kanzure | that's the guy! | 17:29 |
| kanzure | clock: https://github.com/kanzure/python-brlcad | 17:29 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: i wish there were talented people who actually thought like that | 17:30 |
| @jrayhawk | it's true, i could use a mink coat | 17:30 |
| @fenn | pretty sure "quorn" comes close to a portable soylent factory | 17:31 |
| @fenn | ammonia + molasses in, high quality protein out | 17:31 |
| @fenn | those stupid vegans messed it all up though | 17:31 |
| @jrayhawk | "after changing production methods to ensure that only free-range eggs were used, the Vegetarian Society gave the product a seal of approval." | 17:32 |
| @jrayhawk | well, egg-based is less horrifying than i was expecting | 17:32 |
| @jrayhawk | not sure how vegans could get involved with that, though | 17:32 |
| @fenn | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quorn#Controversy | 17:32 |
| @fenn | basically it was threatening gardenburger's profits, so the hired CSPI as thugs to "take em out" | 17:33 |
| @fenn | hey the patent is expired | 17:33 |
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| kanzure | hrm what was wrong with lolcad, again? | 17:38 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/nurbs.py | 17:38 |
| @fenn | the maintainer abandoned it | 17:38 |
| @fenn | what is lolcad | 17:39 |
| kanzure | lolcad is many things, but part of it was my silly idea of implementing step compatibility without ISO EXPRESS | 17:39 |
| kanzure | and without step class library | 17:39 |
| @fenn | huh cgit doesn't parse README.mdwn? | 17:39 |
| kanzure | but the other aspect was pure python nurbs curves and surfaces (?) | 17:40 |
| @fenn | well that sounds okay | 17:40 |
| kanzure | i see arc, circle, polyline, NurbsSurface | 17:40 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/cgit/lolcad/tree/nurbs.py#n220 | 17:41 |
| clock | fenn, I think its unfair to call vegans stupid | 17:41 |
| kanzure | part of the problem was that i was implementing something i didn't completely comprehend | 17:41 |
| @fenn | heh clock i used to be a vegan and canvassed for CSPI | 17:41 |
| clock | I don't think being a vegan is a good idea, but that doesn't mean the people are stupid | 17:42 |
| clock | and I am not vegan :) | 17:42 |
| clock | neither a vegetarian :) | 17:42 |
| kanzure | bad ideas are wrong | 17:42 |
| @fenn | wrong ideas are bad!! | 17:43 |
| @fenn | hey people can eat whatever they want | 17:43 |
| kanzure | that doesn't make it a good idea | 17:43 |
| @ParahSailin | fenn: how did you de-vegan? | 17:43 |
| @fenn | what am i trying to say. i want quorn to exist and be cheap and accessible and safe | 17:43 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7752537 | 17:43 |
| yoleaux | Show HN: Take It Apart | 17:43 |
| kanzure | i think this is nmz787's thing | 17:43 |
| @fenn | i want to be able to air-drop a quorn factory into a harsh and unforgiving desert, and have it bake curious meat patties | 17:44 |
| @fenn | i recognize that space colonies probably will not have space for cows or salmon | 17:44 |
| @fenn | so the sooner we learn to live healthy the more easy it will be to transition to a space based lifestyle | 17:44 |
| @fenn | other people have other motivations for their vegan diet | 17:44 |
| cluckj | I want a space-based lifestyle | 17:44 |
| @fenn | uh "live healthy on a synthetic diet" i mean | 17:45 |
| cluckj | o | 17:45 |
| @fenn | and yes "space based lifestyle" means you live in outer space | 17:45 |
| cluckj | yes | 17:45 |
| @fenn | but where's the sense in suing to death the greatest invention in nutrition in decades? | 17:46 |
| clock | I actually ate quorn | 17:46 |
| clock | but then it wasn't available in my grocery anymore so now I eat something similar but its made conventionally out of vegetables or whatever | 17:47 |
| clock | and I like the taste more | 17:47 |
| @fenn | ParahSailin: first it was realizing that an entire gallon of ice cream cost less than a bag of vegan chocolate chips | 17:48 |
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| cluckj | animal-produced fats are pretty great | 17:49 |
| @ParahSailin | so the economics of using animals? | 17:49 |
| @fenn | ParahSailin: then it was "the anti-aging zone" by barry sears (zone diet) and carolyn ray (a person on sifter) talking about fish oil and the difference in difficulty of getting protein RDA on a vegan diet vs omnivorous diet | 17:50 |
| @fenn | basically a quantitative argument | 17:51 |
| @fenn | visualizing the amount of beans you need vs meat for 50 grams of protein | 17:51 |
| clock | fenn, what means "a person on sifter"? :) is sifter some kind of drug? :) | 17:52 |
| @fenn | sifter is an "atheist church" i guess, just a group of people trying to find the truth | 17:52 |
| @jrayhawk | ha ha oh barry "arachidonic acid is a toxin" sears | 17:52 |
| clock | fenn, what animal fat cheap? what I heard animals are like energy guzzlers when it comes to efficiency of production | 17:52 |
| cluckj | soy protein is pretty available | 17:52 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: that's not what he says if you read the book | 17:52 |
| @jrayhawk | that's what the says to the media | 17:52 |
| @ParahSailin | animals can yield food off of non-arable land | 17:52 |
| @fenn | jrayhawk: well, it's true in people who eat an inflammatory diet :\ | 17:52 |
| @fenn | which is most people | 17:53 |
| @jrayhawk | yeah, lots of things are pathological in the context of other pathologies | 17:53 |
| clock | actually I go to gym so I made calculations which protein is the cheapest for me to eat | 17:54 |
| clock | and its "magerquark" | 17:54 |
| @fenn | well right now i have sitting on the counter: a huge bok choy plant, a can of chub mackerel, some kumquats, garlic, and barbecue sauce | 17:54 |
| clock | a low-fat quark, a type of fresh dairy product | 17:54 |
| @jrayhawk | including, but not limited to, methionine, vitamin a, vitamin d, DHA, AA, carbohydrates, fat, protein | 17:54 |
| clock | which is illogical because thats so expensive to produce | 17:54 |
| clock | tofu is much more expensive | 17:54 |
| @jrayhawk | calling these things "toxic" is gibbering idiocu | 17:54 |
| @jrayhawk | s/idiocu/idiocy/ | 17:55 |
| @fenn | vitamin A will kill you regardless of your diet | 17:55 |
| clock | you know that water is highly toxic it has therapeutic index only 1? | 17:55 |
| @jrayhawk | No, vitamin A toxicity is mediated by vitamin D levels. | 17:55 |
| clock | A daily dosis - 3.2 L accoridng to WHO - can kill you if drank at once | 17:55 |
| clock | so people should go to bathroom probably in hazmat suits | 17:56 |
| @fenn | .d quark | 17:56 |
| yoleaux | quark¹ (/kwɑːk, kwɔːk/): n. Any of a number of subatomic particles carrying a fractional electric charge, postulated as building blocks of the hadrons. Quarks have not been directly observed but theoretical predictions … — http://is.gd/vZccdJ | 17:56 |
| @fenn | .wik magerquark | 17:56 |
| yoleaux | "Quark is a type of fresh dairy product. It is made by warming soured milk until the desired degree of coagulation (denaturation) of milk proteins is met, and then strained." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quark_(dairy_product) | 17:56 |
| @jrayhawk | It's one of those things that we've RCT'd with pathological norms. | 17:56 |
| @ParahSailin | even the eskimos cannot eat the liver of the animals there | 17:56 |
| @jrayhawk | Eskimos, notably, have really shitty vitamin D status. | 17:56 |
| @ParahSailin | and they throw it away so it doesnt poison their dogs either | 17:57 |
| @jrayhawk | Though yeah, polar bear livers are pretty extreme. | 17:57 |
| @fenn | i'd expect eskimos to have okay vitamin D status from all the fish | 17:57 |
| clock | couldnt eskimos chop the livers and sell them over a webshop? | 17:58 |
| @fenn | FISH,HALIBUT,GREENLAND,RAW 85.0 g 23.3 mcg | 17:58 |
| clock | as a vitamin supplement? | 17:58 |
| @fenn | FISH,SALMON,SOCKEYE,COOKED,DRY HEAT 85.0 g 19.8 mcg | 17:59 |
| clock | sounds like the USDA database? | 17:59 |
| @jrayhawk | So, that's 400-600 IU per-fish? | 17:59 |
| @jrayhawk | or is it per-serving | 17:59 |
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| clock | I had to scan the USDA database because my machine produces distilled water and people are scared of it | 18:00 |
| clock | telling myths like its unhealthy to drink etc. | 18:00 |
| @jrayhawk | oh, 1 mcg is 40IU | 18:00 |
| @jrayhawk | durrr | 18:00 |
| clock | so I had to figure out how much Ca and Mg reduction you get from it and which is the cheapest food to replace that | 18:00 |
| @fenn | one serving of fish is about 1000 IU | 18:00 |
| clock | and then calculate that into the cost of operation | 18:00 |
| @jrayhawk | so 800-1000 | 18:00 |
| @fenn | also i'd expect it to vary a lot | 18:01 |
| @fenn | i just pulled the top "D2+D3 per serving" from USDA | 18:01 |
| clock | so if you want to calculate your Ca and Mg I can give you reference to pages in the document with a comprehensive table :) | 18:01 |
| * clock loves fenn for using the USDA | 18:01 | |
| sheena | clock: what machine? | 18:02 |
| clock | sheena, http://ronja.twibright.com/distillcooker/ | 18:02 |
| @fenn | clock: most people are super way under their RDA for magnesium regardless of the water they drink | 18:02 |
| clock | fenn, yep and you know what is the cheapest source of Mg in Switzerland and what in Cambodia? | 18:02 |
| @fenn | i use nut-nutrition to look up data | 18:02 |
| @jrayhawk | huh http://www.circumpolarhealthjournal.net/index.php/ijch/article/view/18001/html | 18:03 |
| @fenn | hmm cheapest source... magnesium sulfate probably. but bioavailable, spinach? | 18:03 |
| @fenn | oats? | 18:03 |
| clock | Switzerland: supplements | 18:03 |
| @fenn | sea salt without the sodium chloride? | 18:03 |
| clock | Cambodia: bananas | 18:03 |
| clock | Switzerland except supplements: peants | 18:04 |
| clock | peanuts | 18:04 |
| @fenn | peanuts contain phytic acid so you'll have to factor that in | 18:04 |
| clock | PEANUTS, SALTED, ROASTED; PACKAGED, PRINTED WITH FANCY COLOURS | 18:04 |
| @fenn | also peanuts have lots of omega-6 so i don't feel comfortable telling people "just eat lots and lots of peanuts every day forever" | 18:04 |
| clock | fenn, why factor phytic acid? is something I can overdose? | 18:04 |
| @fenn | no, it just reduces the amount of magnesium absorbed | 18:05 |
| clock | oh :( | 18:05 |
| clock | fortunately none of my price calculation was based on peanuts | 18:05 |
| clock | so I don't have to change my document now :) | 18:05 |
| @jrayhawk | Plants generally store minerals bound to phytate and humans are sorta bad at phytase expression. | 18:05 |
| clock | I ate a bag of peanuts at once once | 18:05 |
| @fenn | factual accuracy? what's that? | 18:05 |
| clock | am I going to pop? | 18:05 |
| @jrayhawk | Some folks have better gut flora for it than others. | 18:05 |
| cluckj | all plants are trying to kill us | 18:06 |
| @jrayhawk | Phytate breakdown can be done with arduous food preparation protocols. | 18:06 |
| clock | jrayhawk, what do these protocols approximately involve? | 18:06 |
| clock | phytic acid: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/Phytic_acid.svg/300px-Phytic_acid.svg.png | 18:07 |
| @jrayhawk | for nuts, some combination of soaking, drying, and roasting, the order of which i do not remember | 18:07 |
| @jrayhawk | http://www.google.com/search?q=phytate+nuts+roast+dry+soak | 18:07 |
| clock | If I didn't know it is a real substance I would think that is a drawing of a chemist on LSD | 18:07 |
| clock | "to a lesser extent, also macro minerals such as calcium and magnesium; " (phytic acid wikipedia) | 18:08 |
| @jrayhawk | http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/living-with-phytic-acid/ | 18:08 |
| @ParahSailin | are those gmo pigs with phytase on the market yet? | 18:11 |
| @jrayhawk | whoa, hadn't heard of those | 18:11 |
| @jrayhawk | that's a fascinating idea | 18:11 |
| sheena | can i make a goat that makes cows' milk so i dont have to deal with the idiocy that is the gov't mandated cows milk sale shit? | 18:11 |
| @jrayhawk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enviropig | 18:11 |
| @jrayhawk | what's wrong with goat milk | 18:12 |
| sheena | its not very delicious? | 18:12 |
| @jrayhawk | lies | 18:13 |
| @ParahSailin | you are hurting my goats' feelings | 18:13 |
| sheena | lol | 18:13 |
| sheena | ok it doesnt taste LIKE cow's milk? | 18:13 |
| sheena | so if one wants to drink cows milk | 18:13 |
| sheena | goats milk is a poor substitute? | 18:13 |
| sheena | also if i mix vinegar and bleach, will i die? | 18:13 |
| @ParahSailin | apologize to little julia and caprica https://plus.google.com/photos/108592484668460515128/albums/5838517469299267185?authkey=CITGk5Cfu5DdrQE | 18:14 |
| clock | sheena, if you do it it will smell like an attack of million swimming pools in your bathroom | 18:14 |
| clock | then you probably realize you may get seriously hurt | 18:14 |
| clock | so you will hold your breath, run to the windows, open them all, get out of your apartment, and then resume breathing | 18:15 |
| sheena | why does the internet tell you to put vinegar on bleach to neutralize it? | 18:15 |
| @jrayhawk | well, i guess in the sense that a match will neutralize dynamite pretty fast | 18:16 |
| clock | mixing vinegar and bleach will neutralize you ;-) | 18:16 |
| @ParahSailin | http://www.solvaychemicals.com/Chemicals%20Literature%20Documents/Chlorinated_inorganics/PCH-1400-0001-W-EN_WW_.pdf | 18:17 |
| cluckj | lol | 18:17 |
| cluckj | it depends how much you mix | 18:17 |
| sheena | ParahSailin: you milk those goats? | 18:17 |
| @ParahSailin | nah, city made me give them away :( | 18:17 |
| clock | vinegar has pH 2 | 18:18 |
| clock | thats a perfect match to get the chlorine out :) | 18:18 |
| clock | my eyes are burning when I just talk about it :) | 18:19 |
| @fenn | mixing vinegar and bleach will do nothing | 18:19 |
| clock | oh and the inside of my nose too :) | 18:19 |
| @fenn | you will have some vinegar mixed with bleach | 18:19 |
| @ParahSailin | it would take a lot of vinegar to take it to ph 2 | 18:19 |
| sheena | im bleaching a carpet | 18:19 |
| sheena | its working well for its purpose, but i'm concerned the smell may not dissipate quickly enough for my comfort | 18:19 |
| clock | sheena, I am concerned the organics of the dirt is actually turned into chloramines | 18:20 |
| @fenn | so, it's worth noting that vinegar also smells | 18:20 |
| @fenn | do you have a shopvac or some kind of water resistant vacuum | 18:21 |
| apex | cut it with hydrogen peroxide | 18:21 |
| clock | the more chemicals you mix, the better | 18:21 |
| apex | to neutralize the smell | 18:21 |
| @fenn | apex: that doesn't make any sense either | 18:21 |
| @fenn | my recommendation: put water on it, remove the water+bleach somehow | 18:22 |
| clock | has anyone seriously scientifically investigated | 18:22 |
| clock | what all compounds get created when you mix all existing household chemicals together? | 18:22 |
| cluckj | death | 18:22 |
| apex | it makes meth | 18:22 |
| apex | im p shure | 18:22 |
| sheena | fenn: ideal, but no. could like, towel it all up as best i could, but icky. it'll disspate eventually. if i could get sunshine in there.... | 18:22 |
| @jrayhawk | Cream of Anarchists Cookbook | 18:23 |
| @fenn | "I got hot water and filled my carpet cleaner almost to the top, then added half of a small bottle of vinegar and cleaned the carpet. It completely took the bleach smell away instantly." the vinegar is added to the water to prevent mold from growing in the carpet | 18:23 |
| apex | yes | 18:23 |
| clock | bleach creates so called "chlorination byproducts" | 18:23 |
| clock | I had to accidentally study it for my machine again | 18:23 |
| @fenn | "the anarchist gourmet" | 18:24 |
| apex | and then use baking soda to cut the vinager | 18:24 |
| clock | so you can read their list on... | 18:24 |
| kanzure | clock: does this page speak to you in any meaningful way http://diyhpl.us/wiki/projects/heuristics | 18:24 |
| sheena | well, i KNOW the chlorine smell will dissipate. the poop smell that it has replaced wouldn't have. so.. win? | 18:24 |
| clock | http://ronja.twibright.com/distillcooker/distillcooker_preview.pdf page 9 | 18:26 |
| clock | sheena, I think chlorine and chloramines smell similar, but I think the latter are more nasty | 18:26 |
| clock | sheena, how large areas of carpet are you treating and can you put the whole carpet outside? | 18:27 |
| sheena | large. no. | 18:27 |
| clock | oh I would be careful then | 18:27 |
| clock | especially when you say poop, that sounds like ammonia or urea containing substance | 18:27 |
| @jrayhawk | while we're discussing funding twibright, who do i have to throw money at to get links-hacked, links2, and elinks to merge | 18:27 |
| clock | jrayhawk, I don't think thats possible | 18:28 |
| sheena | that part doesnt worry me so much, clock. i've used bleach on similar stains before lots | 18:28 |
| @jrayhawk | damnation | 18:28 |
| clock | jrayhawk, or it would be rather prohibitively expensive | 18:28 |
| clock | jrayhawk, but you may write to Mikulas Patocka mikulas@artax.karlin.mff.cuni.cz hes the head of Links to ask more detail about the possibility | 18:29 |
| clock | sheena, can you sprinkle the carpet with activated charcoal and cover with plastic foil? | 18:31 |
| clock | sheena, according to my state of knowledge, that should absorb the yummies emitted by the carpet | 18:31 |
| sheena | nope. at this point, i'll just wait until tonight (its sprayed... fans and window open) and close up my end of the house away from it for sleeping if needed | 18:31 |
| sheena | if its still bad in the morning, i'll just close the bedroom door and not open it for 4 days | 18:31 |
| sheena | that ought to do ti | 18:32 |
| clock | sheena, oh if you can leave windows open and isolate rest of house I think thats perfectly fine | 18:32 |
| sheena | was juste hoping to cheat and hurry things along | 18:32 |
| clock | sheena, I think if it was chlorine emitted you could absorb it into baking soda | 18:32 |
| clock | but I believe its rather chloramines | 18:32 |
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| clock | I know bleach starts smelling disproportionately when it gets into contact with the actual dirt I bleach | 18:33 |
| apex | perxyde | 18:33 |
| sheena | thats interesting clock | 18:33 |
| clock | apex, whats the rationale for peroxide? | 18:33 |
| sheena | the chloramine is more toxic? or just more icky? | 18:33 |
| apex | it neutralises the belach when your done with it | 18:33 |
| clock | sheena, I think more toxic to breath | 18:33 |
| clock | however for eating its harmless because its destroyed by stomach acid | 18:33 |
| sheena | will try not to breathe it in high concentrations | 18:34 |
| sheena | low concentrations (ie: whats coming out the window outside where my dogs are hanging out) wont be too bad? | 18:34 |
| clock | apex, how come peroxide neutralizes bleach? both are oxidizers afaik. Some different mechanism? | 18:34 |
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| clock | sheena, i suspect they may be carcinogenic you would have to google it up | 18:36 |
| sheena | poop | 18:37 |
| sheena | well if im dead tomorrow | 18:37 |
| sheena | you'll know why | 18:37 |
| clock | you may actually live too much | 18:38 |
| clock | some parts of you may start living too vigorously | 18:38 |
| sheena | :P | 18:38 |
| @fenn | huh i guess peroxide + bleach = water + oxygen + salt | 18:39 |
| sheena | what is bleach chemically? | 18:39 |
| sheena | its not HCl, right? | 18:39 |
| @fenn | sodium hypochlorite | 18:39 |
| clock | hypnochlorite | 18:39 |
| clock | hypnotizes you | 18:39 |
| @ParahSailin | peroxide steals electron from chlorine | 18:39 |
| @fenn | apparently the peroxide reaction also makes chlorine as a byproduct (side reaction yielding sodium hydroxide) | 18:40 |
| clock | sheena, you just apply the bleach but not remove it in any way e.g. by washing with plenty of water? | 18:41 |
| clock | sheena, how did the poop smell? Like pis or like dead bodies? | 18:42 |
| @ParahSailin | ClO− + H2O + 2e− → Cl− + 2OH- +0.89; 2 H2O2(aq)arrow.gif (874 bytes)2 H2O(l) + O2(aq) +1.09 | 18:43 |
| @fenn | clock "just curious" haha | 18:43 |
| clock | fenn, no, I might suggest next time use just vinegar and not create such complicated carpet | 18:43 |
| sheena | like dogs who ate too many rotten eggs then shit all over the carpet, mostly | 18:44 |
| @ParahSailin | steam cleaner | 18:44 |
| @fenn | just get rid of the carpet, you'll enjoy life much more not having to deal with it | 18:44 |
| sheena | fenn: yes, that will be happening int he next month or so, this is just a stopgap | 18:44 |
| sheena | clock: no, dont remove the bleach.. it evaporates over time, like it does from swimming pools.. or so i've always been told/believed | 18:45 |
| sheena | i tried vinegar first. blah | 18:45 |
| clock | sheena, didn't help? | 18:45 |
| sheena | extremely insufficient | 18:45 |
| sheena | i'd have needed gallons | 18:45 |
| sheena | and even then maybe not | 18:45 |
| sheena | bleach is stronger | 18:45 |
| @fenn | gamma radiation? | 18:45 |
| @fenn | ion bombardment | 18:46 |
| @fenn | nuke it from orbit | 18:46 |
| clock | sheena, oh in that case, vinegar surely wouldn't help :) | 18:46 |
| clock | sheena, you see, fenn is suggesting you a plenty of very practical opportunities | 18:46 |
| sheena | lol | 18:47 |
| clock | like everybody has some nukes in orbit in his household | 18:47 |
| @ParahSailin | you know, oxyclean has no odor | 18:47 |
| sheena | i know | 18:47 |
| sheena | but im in buttfuck nowhere | 18:47 |
| sheena | and i didnt want to drive to the store | 18:47 |
| kanzure | you can cover the existing carpet with more carpet, until you remove both carpets | 18:47 |
| sheena | so | 18:47 |
| @fenn | plus oxyclean doubles as circuit board etchant | 18:47 |
| sheena | kanzure: that wont solve the odour problem | 18:47 |
| clock | fenn, thanks, I will try next time :) | 18:48 |
| clock | sheena, sounds like your dog is good at fermenting stuff? | 18:48 |
| @ParahSailin | she has a puppy mill | 18:48 |
| clock | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Puppy_mill02.jpg | 18:49 |
| @fenn | how do you grind up the teeth into powder | 18:49 |
| sheena | ugh. he got into like 2 dozen really old eggs | 18:50 |
| sheena | they were being laid where ididnt know they were there | 18:50 |
| sheena | and thten he had the diarrhea | 18:50 |
| kanzure | is that enough to teach him to avoid eggs? | 18:50 |
| sheena | nope | 18:51 |
| sheena | overlal thats not a bad thing tho | 18:51 |
| sheena | teaches ME to find them before they rot | 18:51 |
| sheena | ugh | 18:51 |
| @ParahSailin | this is where the electroshock comes in? | 18:51 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: your set of beliefs about her dog training business is very perplexing | 18:51 |
| kanzure | in your mind, she's running a puppy mill that uses negative reinforcement via electrocution? | 18:51 |
| @ParahSailin | the puppy mill was to breed compliant ones? | 18:52 |
| sheena | someone else wanted to breed compliant dogs | 18:53 |
| * clock thinks 2 dozen really old eggs would be a good material for a "is it a good idea to distill this?" show which his users will probably create after the distiller design is released | 18:53 | |
| sheena | with a username beginning with E? | 18:53 |
| @fenn | does your distiller remove H2S? | 18:53 |
| sheena | talking, compliant, floppy eared dogs? | 18:53 |
| @fenn | ebowden | 18:53 |
| sheena | yeah | 18:54 |
| sheena | that one | 18:54 |
| clock | fenn, yes it does | 18:54 |
| @ParahSailin | kanzure: sorry, i am not used to thinking white hat science | 18:55 |
| @fenn | red hat science, for enterprise vampire sadists | 18:56 |
| @fenn | if you inject blood from a young dog into an old dog, does it reverse aging? (come on people what am i paying you for) | 18:57 |
| kanzure | hplusroadmap profits are up 4000% | 18:58 |
| @fenn | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Bathory#Folklore_and_popular_culture | 18:58 |
| clock | fenn, haha I actually don't know :) | 18:59 |
| @ParahSailin | no, you have to hook the young dog up to the old dog with catheters | 18:59 |
| @ParahSailin | you cant just inject blood | 18:59 |
| catern | they also providing hosting and guidance for the Fedora Science project for hobbyist atheists, who are basically scientists right | 18:59 |
| kanzure | ParahSailin: deep brain stimulation is white hat science? | 18:59 |
| kanzure | i really ought to put blackhatbio.com to better use | 19:00 |
| @fenn | ParahSailin: that's what i thought until a week or so ago | 19:00 |
| kanzure | maybe i'll write a satirical "military blackhat bio manifesto" text and slap it up there | 19:00 |
| clock | (most famously the tale that she bathed in the blood of virgins to retain her youth) | 19:00 |
| @ParahSailin | its white hat science unless it involves dangerous shortcuts | 19:01 |
| clock | Well old rich Swiss seem to think that having everyday sex with a young Thai reverses aging | 19:01 |
| @fenn | isn't "deep brain stimulation" basically a dangerout short circuit | 19:01 |
| QuantumG | clock: couldn't hurt | 19:01 |
| kanzure | i think only the initial implantation is dangerous, it depends on whether you have to expose it through skin | 19:01 |
| @fenn | hm. the mackerel is calling | 19:01 |
| kanzure | i forget, are we definitely not using through-skin interfaces in everything in the future? | 19:02 |
| kanzure | that's medically stupid, right? | 19:02 |
| sheena | bluetooth? | 19:02 |
| @fenn | antler horns can make a nice transdermal port | 19:02 |
| kanzure | there are many ways to interface with devices under the skin | 19:02 |
| kanzure | for power transfer, my favorite is inductive coupling | 19:02 |
| clock | you know why human brain runs at such tiny voltages like 70mV | 19:03 |
| @fenn | skin grows right up to the edges of the horn and stops, and it's infection-proof | 19:03 |
| clock | and not lik 1V common in today processors? | 19:03 |
| @fenn | only problem is humans don't have antlers :\ | 19:03 |
| clock | because | 19:03 |
| kanzure | how are antlers infection proof? | 19:03 |
| clock | the total capacitance of all brain neurons is like 180 mF | 19:03 |
| @fenn | they're solid bone with no blood vessels | 19:03 |
| kanzure | but the skin interface? | 19:03 |
| @fenn | uh i don't have more details at hand | 19:04 |
| clock | charging and discharging all this capacitance at a higher voltage, even considering that only a portion of neurons fires, would dissipate disproportionate amount of heat | 19:04 |
| kanzure | sheena: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_power | 19:04 |
| kanzure | clock: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Electrical%20stimulation%20of%20the%20human%20brain:%20perceptual%20and%20behavioral%20phenomena%20reported%20in%20the%20old%20and%20new%20literature.pdf | 19:04 |
| @fenn | brain dissipates 25W anyway, quite a lot | 19:04 |
| clock | well its a portable supercomputer | 19:05 |
| clock | for a supercomputer I think 25W is damn little | 19:05 |
| @fenn | no it's not | 19:05 |
| kanzure | clock seems like the type that would prefer animaltronics | 19:05 |
| @fenn | well anyway. bigger reason is metabolic energy efficiency, you don't have to eat so much | 19:05 |
| clock | fenn, in my opinion it is a portable supercomputer | 19:05 |
| @fenn | the brain does a lot of "something" but whatever that "something" is, it's not computation | 19:06 |
| kanzure | there is some computation involved in a few places | 19:06 |
| sheena | i just want to reward my dog with a remote control button wherever he's standing | 19:06 |
| clock | I feel disrespected when I tell you that in my opinion it is a portable supercomputer, and you say " the brain does a lot of "something" but whatever that "something" is, it's not computation" | 19:06 |
| kanzure | sheena, it would probably be something that involves strapping the dog with a device on the outside that is bluetooth-compatible, and then the bluetooth thing would communicate with your phone | 19:07 |
| @fenn | there have been many efforts to replicate brain function with supercomputers, all of which have failed | 19:07 |
| @fenn | we can talk about the brain emulation roadmap if you like | 19:07 |
| kanzure | the bluetooth device would be placed near the device that is implanted under the skin; and that device would have a looong wire to the electrode in the brain | 19:07 |
| clock | I feel disrespected when you say "there have been many efforts to replicate brain function with supercomputers, all of which have failed", and I actually did such an attempt, and it was successful | 19:08 |
| kanzure | are you interested in respect, or are you interested in making stuff | 19:08 |
| QuantumG | kanzure: I typically just say "good boy" | 19:08 |
| clock | fenn, I believe brain does computation, a damn clever one | 19:08 |
| clock | fenn, with exception of your brain of course, which just does fine particle filtering of blood | 19:08 |
| kanzure | yes it's a giant chromatography machine | 19:08 |
| @fenn | there is a trend in popular science to compare the latest poorly understood scientific phenomenon (quantum physics, neuroscience, biology) with the latest technology of the time (clockwork, computers, markets) | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | most everything is computation | 19:09 |
| kanzure | "the brain is like a giant cell phone" | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | protein folding, computation | 19:09 |
| @fenn | one is one because everything is everything if you throw out the units | 19:09 |
| QuantumG | saying the brain does computation is like saying wind does dynamics | 19:10 |
| kanzure | QuantumG: elaborate? | 19:10 |
| clock | fenn, neuroscience is not a phenomenon, its a science | 19:10 |
| @fenn | clock: please tell us more about your brain emulation software (?) | 19:10 |
| clock | fenn, I tried to program a PC prgram that would emulate the visual cortex | 19:11 |
| @fenn | okay | 19:11 |
| @fenn | was this based on "on intelligence" by jef hawkins? | 19:12 |
| kanzure | the visual cortex is the most studied; there's tons of emulators that do an okay job | 19:12 |
| clock | and I realized, that - in my opinion - brain is a damn cleverly designed computer, much more elegant than the von neumann architecture | 19:12 |
| clock | fenn, no it wasnt because I don't even know about ""on intelligence" by jef hawkins" | 19:12 |
| clock | fenn, but i will google it now sounds interesting | 19:12 |
| kanzure | uh, and so that you don't go off on a wild goose chase, also consider biologically accurate emulations | 19:13 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/wiki/transcripts/markram-2006/ | 19:13 |
| @fenn | dharmendra modha is doing some stuff.. i should look into that some time | 19:13 |
| clock | oh on intelligence sounds to me like it might be a wishwash | 19:14 |
| @fenn | absolutely not biologically accurate at all | 19:14 |
| clock | the principles I realized don't depend on how the actual firing is encoded | 19:14 |
| @fenn | it's not about firing really | 19:14 |
| @fenn | not any more than an FPGA is about the signals.. hm | 19:15 |
| kanzure | brain matter is mostly dendrites | 19:15 |
| clock | fenn, if you really want to understand how the brain works | 19:15 |
| clock | I suggest you don't study the brain at all | 19:15 |
| clock | take the input data | 19:15 |
| clock | holiday pictures | 19:15 |
| clock | everyday sounds | 19:16 |
| clock | and think "how would I design a machine that understands these data"? | 19:16 |
| kanzure | no, we have enough people not looking at the brain | 19:16 |
| clock | thats what I did when I couldn't find scientific articles on how some parts of the cortex are wired | 19:16 |
| clock | or often, scientists find out, that everything is wired with everything, correlated with everything, and statistically insignificant | 19:16 |
| clock | they present a meticulously described, methodically absolutely immaculately measured, data garbage | 19:17 |
| @ParahSailin | noam chomsky gave a lecture similar to that | 19:17 |
| clock | which may be great to get citations in some journal | 19:17 |
| clock | but not when you are a hobbyist trying to build a brain with crude knowledge on your desktop | 19:17 |
| clock | ParahSailin, noam chomsky lecture similar to what? | 19:18 |
| @ParahSailin | what you are saying right now | 19:18 |
| clock | Actually I was surprised to realize | 19:18 |
| clock | that the structure of primary visual cortex pops out from a single holiday photo | 19:18 |
| clock | you don't need a training set of 100 or 1000 of them | 19:18 |
| clock | you need a single holiday photo | 19:18 |
| clock | Prdo you have some name or reference to that lecture? | 19:19 |
| clock | I like Chomsky very much but hes so old now he would need some rejuvenation | 19:19 |
| clock | which is the topic of this channel am I right? | 19:19 |
| @ParahSailin | http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/11/noam-chomsky-on-where-artificial-intelligence-went-wrong/261637/ | 19:20 |
| clock | by the way | 19:20 |
| clock | the things that go on in the brain aren't much groundbreaking | 19:20 |
| clock | the idea is to make a number of simple steps, chained together | 19:21 |
| clock | Or even a simple way how to explain | 19:23 |
| clock | Imagine you are a cell in the retina | 19:23 |
| clock | All your life all you know are neural impulses | 19:23 |
| clock | sometimes they come, and you relay them | 19:24 |
| clock | sometimes they don't, and you don't | 19:24 |
| clock | you don't have any sidewards connection | 19:24 |
| clock | just one input and one input | 19:24 |
| clock | thats all your boring mental life | 19:24 |
| clock | and now I do an interview with you | 19:24 |
| clock | I know you must be a damn specialist on relaying single channel retinal information | 19:24 |
| clock | What will you tell me about your life? About your work? | 19:24 |
| clock | you know nothing | 19:25 |
| clock | you don't know if the data that pass through you are red, green or blue | 19:25 |
| clock | you don't know that there are other retinal cells | 19:26 |
| clock | you could never compare your data with them | 19:26 |
| clock | what will you tell me? | 19:26 |
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| @fenn | yeah the kumquats are a good addition to the mackerel and bok choy | 19:55 |
| @fenn | clock: another constraint to the neuron problem is that everything is hot and there are molecules flying around everywhere so there is a lot of noise in the system | 19:59 |
| clock | fenn, yes the signals are noisy | 20:00 |
| @ParahSailin | bayesian blocks is a pretty sweet algorithm | 20:00 |
| @fenn | iirc you get better performance out of deep belief networks if you restrict the input to some small fraction of the data per time slice | 20:00 |
| @fenn | stochastic signaling ends up working better in this environment and it prevents over-fitting the model to the data | 20:01 |
| clock | I think because the brain had to evolve incrementally from something very simple | 20:03 |
| clock | simple models were tried the first | 20:03 |
| clock | so if they worked they were adopted | 20:04 |
| delinquentme | So one thing thats kind of crapping on my thought process *STILL* with biology/ chemistry is the volume of interactions we're talking | 20:04 |
| clock | and if more complicated models overfit and disturb the survivability, they die out, the better :) | 20:04 |
| delinquentme | Say I get a purified sample at .98 ... Theres still crap in there that could be nearly anything | 20:04 |
| clock | delinquentme, like the neural interactions? | 20:04 |
| cluckj | delinquentme, nearly anything isn't as anything as it sounds | 20:05 |
| clock | I get an impression many people overemphasize intelligence | 20:06 |
| cluckj | for particular extraction processes, you pull things with similar chemical properties out | 20:06 |
| clock | almost putting it into a some kind of mystical cosmical position, something which has to be ultimately cracked to get an infinite enlightement | 20:06 |
| clock | I believe this: | 20:06 |
| clock | 1) Intelligence is a tool for survival | 20:06 |
| clock | 2) its a tool specific to primates, and requested by the specific living environment | 20:07 |
| cluckj | imagine how many proto-sapiens had to die to make you so smart | 20:07 |
| clock | 3) The ultimate "goal" (if it can be called like that at all, because I believe that's an antropomorphisation) is not intelligence, but survival | 20:07 |
| delinquentme | clock, you're basically a sentient AI with a connection to IRC i think | 20:07 |
| delinquentme | One hell of a near-monologue | 20:08 |
| clock | 4) its survival, because those, who happen to be better at survival, surpriuse surprise - survive better and tend to accumulate in the environment! | 20:08 |
| delinquentme | ParahSailin, http://space.mit.edu/cxc/analysis/SITAR/bb_experiment.html | 20:08 |
| clock | delinquentme, I feel disrespected and insulted when you say "you're basically a sentient AI with a connection to IRC i think" | 20:08 |
| @ParahSailin | i mean, yeah, im familiar with bayesian blocks, otherwise i would not have mentioned the subject | 20:09 |
| clock | and disrespected and unfairly criticized when you say "One hell of a near-monologue" | 20:09 |
| @ParahSailin | but i respect the attempt | 20:09 |
| @ParahSailin | right now im using bblocks to cluster stuff that isnt a time series and its pretty nice | 20:10 |
| delinquentme | clock, No offense intended | 20:12 |
| delinquentme | +1 for thinking | 20:12 |
| cluckj | lol | 20:12 |
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| @fenn | clock: that's a very practical way to look at things, something that's all too rare in AI circles | 20:17 |
| @fenn | we tend to poo-pooh "intelligence" stuff because it's not even wrong most of the time | 20:17 |
| clock | fenn, thanks | 20:18 |
| @fenn | that said, it's hard to find good quantitative metrics of cognitive function | 20:18 |
| @fenn | seth roberts used balancing as a metric (standing upright) | 20:18 |
| clock | philosophres have this "hard problem of consciousness" or what its called | 20:18 |
| clock | there is some Australian Philosopher I forgot the name | 20:19 |
| clock | debating that we may never find the answer etc. | 20:19 |
| clock | I wrote him an e-mail with algorithm to find the answer | 20:19 |
| clock | 1) simulate brains of all philosophers on Earth | 20:19 |
| @fenn | is that the end of the algorithm? | 20:20 |
| clock | 2) Find such textual or graphic input, which, when presented, ellicits a response "wow! oh gog! thats ingenious! Yes, that's the true solution to the hard problem of consciousness" | 20:20 |
| @fenn | 42 etc | 20:20 |
| clock | All you need, is 1) abaility to simulate brain, 2) enough computational power to try out large number of various inputs | 20:20 |
| clock | oh gog -> oh god | 20:21 |
| clock | because - sorry for capitalization--- | 20:21 |
| clock | THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE GUY FUCKING WANTS! | 20:21 |
| @fenn | .wik hard problem of consciousness | 20:21 |
| yoleaux | "The hard problem of consciousness is the problem of explaining how and why we have qualia or phenomenal experiences — how sensations acquire characteristics, such as colours and tastes.David Chalmers, who introduced the term "hard problem" of consciousness, contrasts this with the "easy problems" of explaining the ability to discriminate, …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness | 20:21 |
| cluckj | why waste the electricity on modeling philosopher brains | 20:21 |
| cluckj | I mean besides schadenfreude | 20:22 |
| @fenn | seems like a reasonable use of electricity | 20:22 |
| clock | cluckj, to satisfy the Australian's need for solution of hard problem of consciousness | 20:22 |
| @fenn | beats arguing about it for eternity | 20:22 |
| clock | or for sake he can simulate his own brain | 20:22 |
| cluckj | isn't that the point, tho? | 20:22 |
| clock | and find out which "solution" would satisfy him | 20:23 |
| clock | and then, finally, present it to himself | 20:23 |
| @fenn | .wik stones of significance | 20:23 |
| yoleaux | "The Black Stone (Arabic: الحجر الأسود al-Ḥajar al-Aswad) is the eastern cornerstone of the Kaaba, the ancient stone building toward which Muslims pray, in the center of the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia. It is revered by Muslims as an Islamic relic which, according to Muslim tradition, dates back to the time of Adam and Eve." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone | 20:23 |
| @fenn | ah dammit | 20:23 |
| clock | I think its time that philosophers finally realize, that | 20:24 |
| clock | THEY EXIST | 20:24 |
| @fenn | google's link munging is interfering with my literary vicarious piracy | 20:24 |
| clock | that means, they are real beinds, og bones, flesh and brains, and their thoughts are impulses running in their heads | 20:24 |
| clock | and stop treating them as abstract ephemeral entities | 20:25 |
| clock | and start treating them as people | 20:25 |
| @fenn | localhost to the rescue: http://fennetic.net/irc/david_brin_-_stones_of_significance.pdf | 20:26 |
| @fenn | unfortunately as soon as you start saying "give beings rights and responsibilities according to their capability" people freak out and think you're going to start murdering their babies | 20:29 |
| @fenn | or that it's some kind of racist plot to exterminate <insert minority here> | 20:29 |
| cluckj | awesome | 20:30 |
| @fenn | we had some guy come in here who kept saying how he hated peter singer "because i love my brother" | 20:30 |
| clock | fenn, why should it mean murdering their babies I don't see the implication? | 20:31 |
| cluckj | that poor guy | 20:31 |
| cluckj | letting philosophers get him down :( | 20:31 |
| @fenn | if that didn't make sense it's because https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer#Abortion.2C_euthanasia_and_infanticide | 20:32 |
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| cluckj | fenn, I think that it also implies taking rights and responsibilities away from *people* according to their abilities | 20:34 |
| cluckj | (why people freak out) | 20:34 |
| @fenn | well would you let a 16 year old vote? a 5 year old? an embryo? | 20:35 |
| @fenn | the line has to be somewhere | 20:36 |
| @fenn | i guess you could do a "three fifths compromise" | 20:36 |
| cluckj | that sounds like a good plan | 20:36 |
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| @fenn | i'm not really a fan of voting in general | 20:37 |
| clock | I looked at the page with Singer and frankly I don't understand it at all because "being holding a preference" sounds so vague to me that virtually anything could fit it | 20:37 |
| cluckj | voting is a bad example too | 20:37 |
| @fenn | yeah like "is the worm squirming because it feels pain, or because its basal ganglion is firing in response to stimulus" | 20:38 |
| @fenn | in the end we all see whatever comes in our eyes and have to make sense of it | 20:38 |
| clock | fenn, yes that fits my view | 20:39 |
| cluckj | lets reduce all philosophical problems to squirmin' worms | 20:41 |
| @fenn | is the cat meowing because it thinks i'm just holding out, because it wants food, to go out, it's bored, it wants me to turn off the rain? | 20:41 |
| @fenn | nobody can know | 20:41 |
| cluckj | not until my cat translator is out of the pre-alpha stage of development | 20:42 |
| clock | or, because, cats which meow in this situation, tend to make it through the evolution? | 20:42 |
| cluckj | all it says right now is "feed me" but I don't believe it | 20:42 |
| QuantumG | my cat only meows when she's in a cage | 20:42 |
| clock | in its own ribcage? | 20:42 |
| QuantumG | and the meaning is entirely obvious.. "what's with the cage?" | 20:42 |
| clock | I would like to ask Peter Singer whether a cat is in its own ribcage | 20:43 |
| clock | Maybe his philosophical brain would pop on that | 20:43 |
| QuantumG | or you could just punch him in the crotch and move on | 20:43 |
| clock | QuantumG, LOL | 20:43 |
| cluckj | he's like 1000 years old, don't hit him | 20:44 |
| clock | so he already mastered the anti-senescence project? | 20:44 |
| cluckj | nah, I'm pretty sure he's against "unnatural" life extension | 20:44 |
| clock | by the way recently something happened to me which showed, how virtual some our philosophical categories are | 20:45 |
| cluckj | all of our categories are virtual | 20:45 |
| clock | yes | 20:45 |
| @fenn | you sat on a cardboard box and realized it was a chair? | 20:45 |
| clock | but in this case a mismatch was highlighted | 20:45 |
| clock | no | 20:46 |
| clock | some years ago I used to type particular command often on my computer | 20:46 |
| clock | and then I changed from english keyboard to german | 20:46 |
| clock | recently I had to type these commands again and I typed then with Z and Y swapped | 20:46 |
| @fenn | ok the cat is definitely bored, she's walking on her front legs | 20:47 |
| clock | I think conventional wisdom would expect that when we want to type something, we retrieve the sequence of letters, then translate that sequence into type strokes | 20:47 |
| clock | no | 20:47 |
| clock | obviously there are some motoric programs stored directly which get activated | 20:47 |
| clock | so it probably goes partially this and partially that way | 20:48 |
| clock | You can get diarrhoea from drinking water | 20:50 |
| clock | But can you get drinking water from diarrhoea? | 20:51 |
| clock | I can get drinking water from urine | 20:51 |
| @fenn | it's still water either way | 20:52 |
| clock | onw, translate these 3 sentences into a different language | 20:52 |
| @fenn | D20 is toxic | 20:52 |
| * fenn quacks like a duck | 20:53 | |
| clock | you can also notice that in sentence 1, the term "drinking water" clearly includes unsafe drinking water, whereas in sentence 2 the same term clearly excludes unsafe driknking water | 20:53 |
| clock | so the same term is self-contradctory | 20:53 |
| clock | then, the term diarrhoea is used to refer to the disease and the physical stuff at the same time | 20:54 |
| clock | and "get" to refer to "catch" and "manufacture" at the same time | 20:54 |
| clock | I think it shows, how wishy washy the language terms actually are | 20:55 |
| clock | I think they are good for survival, but not good for too deep philosophing | 20:55 |
| @fenn | also not good for formalizing data to feed to computer programs | 20:56 |
| cluckj | computers don't do too well with mush | 20:56 |
| @fenn | no way dude, i learned to computer on a mush | 20:56 |
| cluckj | I mushed on a computer | 20:57 |
| cluckj | an iMush | 20:57 |
| @fenn | .wik MUSH | 20:57 |
| yoleaux | "In multiplayer online games, a MUSH (a backronymed pun on MUD most often expanded as Multi-User Shared Hallucination, though Multi-User Shared Hack,Habitat, and Holodeck are also observed) is a text-based online social medium to which multiple users are connected at the same time. MUSHes are often used for online social intercourse and …" — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUSH | 20:57 |
| cluckj | ahahaha social intercourse | 20:57 |
| @fenn | other types of intercourse :\ | 20:57 |
| cluckj | yiss | 20:58 |
| clock | does AI have to show social intelligence to pass? | 20:58 |
| cluckj | no | 20:58 |
| @fenn | to pass what? | 20:58 |
| clock | and then, when it passes, is it a problem when the researches, who build it, don't show social intelligence? | 20:59 |
| clock | fenn, to pass as AI | 20:59 |
| @fenn | i don't even know what tha tmeans | 20:59 |
| cluckj | I know some people who are still people, without social intelligence | 20:59 |
| @fenn | "is this AI AI?" type error | 20:59 |
| @fenn | you two have very similar names | 21:00 |
| @fenn | one is blue, the other is dark teal | 21:00 |
| cluckj | lol | 21:01 |
| @fenn | i wish yoleaux had urban dictionary support | 21:01 |
| cluckj | no plugin for it? | 21:01 |
| @fenn | oh there are a zillion plugins | 21:02 |
| clock | something has developed sentience in my fridge | 21:02 |
| cluckj | ...but not installed? | 21:02 |
| clock | its either the mayonnaise, the carrots or the celery | 21:02 |
| @fenn | cluckj: http://en.wikifur.com/wiki/Yiff | 21:02 |
| cluckj | that's pretty deep in my no-click zone | 21:02 |
| @fenn | eh. it's just etymology | 21:03 |
| cluckj | so? | 21:04 |
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| @fenn | but wait, how can we be descended from pigs AND apes? | 21:05 |
| cluckj | a very lazy god | 21:05 |
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| @fenn | something about a rib | 21:06 |
| QuantumG | mmm ribs | 21:06 |
| cluckj | it was a babyback rib | 21:06 |
| @fenn | that's perfect | 21:06 |
| cluckj | yes | 21:07 |
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| @fenn | how weird that at the same time the US was passing "Human-Animal Hybrid Prohibition Act of 2008" the normally anti-GMO UK passed "ensure regulation of "human-admixed" embryos created from a combination of human and animal genetic material for research" | 21:44 |
| @fenn | hm "Human-Animal Hybrid Prohibition Act of 2008" died in committee and wasn't passed | 21:48 |
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| kanzure | welp now i want a godzilla | 22:38 |
| kanzure | clock is too often disrespected, he should work on that | 22:41 |
| kanzure | i feel disrespected by his constant state of respect-interest | 22:41 |
| kanzure | clock: btw, consciousness is half-banned from this channel | 22:41 |
| kanzure | clock: also most things ai, because people are terrible at thinking about ai (or why anyone should care whether it's "artificial" or not- and until i get a good solid answer, i'll continue to banhammer) | 22:44 |
| @fenn | kanzure: it seems like he was saying exactly the same thing you do | 22:44 |
| kanzure | go look again | 22:44 |
| kanzure | he was complaining that he was insulted for someone claiming he didn't have qualia | 22:44 |
| kanzure | 20:08 < clock> delinquentme, I feel disrespected and insulted when you say "you're basically a sentient AI with a connection to IRC i think" | 22:45 |
| @fenn | meh | 22:45 |
| @fenn | that's a quirk i don't mind | 22:45 |
| kanzure | sorry to disappoint | 22:45 |
| kanzure | the world is much more awful than etc | 22:45 |
| @fenn | i thought you were talking about the brain emulator stuff | 22:46 |
| @fenn | 'hard problem of consciousness' | 22:46 |
| kanzure | here's the really hard problem of consciousness: | 22:46 |
| kanzure | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consciousness | 22:46 |
| kanzure | "Consciousness—The having of perceptions, thoughts, and feelings; awareness. The term is impossible to define except in terms that are unintelligible without a grasp of what consciousness means. Many fall into the trap of equating consciousness with self-consciousness—to be conscious it is only necessary to be aware of the external world. Consciousness is a fascinating but elusive phenomenon: it is impossible to specify what it is, what ... | 22:46 |
| kanzure | ... it does, or why it has evolved. Nothing worth reading has been written on it.[19]" | 22:46 |
| kanzure | in other words, avoid like the plague | 22:47 |
| @fenn | an AI connected to IRC would probably have no survival instincts | 22:47 |
| kanzure | but why is it artificial? | 22:47 |
| @fenn | guh | 22:47 |
| kanzure | am i artificial? is it because a person made me? | 22:47 |
| @fenn | yes | 22:47 |
| @fenn | .d artificial | 22:48 |
| yoleaux | artificial (/ɑːtɪˈfɪʃ(ə)l/): adj. 1. Made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, especially as a copy of something natural: her skin glowed in the ⁓ light — http://is.gd/ZQvnv2 | 22:48 |
| kanzure | then why bother caring about whether it's a dog on irc or jupiter's third nostril | 22:48 |
| @fenn | i believe "doge" is now the preferred term | 22:49 |
| kanzure | "artificial" is fucked up anyway, humans do natural things | 22:49 |
| @fenn | nope, not according to the dictionary | 22:49 |
| kanzure | "rather than occurring naturally, since man definitely isn't a part of nature, and rather lives above and beyond it because god said so" | 22:49 |
| kanzure | .ety artificial | 22:49 |
| yoleaux | artificial (adj.): "late 14c., in the phrase artificial day "part of the day from sunrise to sunset," from Old French artificial, from Latin artificialis "of or belonging to art," from artificium (see artifice)." — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=artificial | 22:49 |
| @fenn | s/artificial/art/ | 22:50 |
| @fenn | hay guyz check out my art intelligence (you can't say it's not art!) | 22:50 |
| kanzure | .ety art | 22:51 |
| yoleaux | art (n.): "early 13c., "skill as a result of learning or practice," from Old French art (10c.), from Latin artem (nominative ars) "work of art; practical skill; a business, craft," from PIE *ar-ti- (cognates: Sanskrit rtih "manner, mode;" Greek arti " …" — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=art | 22:51 |
| @fenn | i am currently looking at this and facepalming every other line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mainstream_Science_on_Intelligence | 22:51 |
| kanzure | great now you know which researchers to avoid | 22:52 |
| @fenn | "intelligence is intelligence! we don't know what it is, but tests measure something... to do with the brain. and genetics. or race. whatever that is. but we can definitely make statements about "blacks" and "whites" because this is a newspaper and things are in black and white." | 22:53 |
| kanzure | a lot of these have a bunch of basic reasoning errors | 22:53 |
| kanzure | without even looking at the studies, i'm pretty sure some of these are not falsifiable statements | 22:54 |
| @fenn | they aren't even internally consistent statements | 22:54 |
| @fenn | unless they're tautologies | 22:54 |
| kanzure | does this qualify as work? were they paid for this? | 22:55 |
| @fenn | no | 22:55 |
| @fenn | in fact it was probably a net negative to the career of anyone signing it | 22:55 |
| @fenn | lots of names from UT Austin on there | 22:56 |
| kanzure | "joint statement on our collective incompetence, volume 1" | 22:57 |
| @fenn | i wonder if people would get so hot and bothered about "the link between balancing and race" | 22:57 |
| kanzure | balancing? | 22:58 |
| @fenn | you know, standing up and not falling over | 22:58 |
| kanzure | http://www.popsci.com/article/science/has-end-banana-arrived | 22:58 |
| @fenn | at least it would resolve the "culturally biased" criticisms, i think | 22:58 |
| kanzure | i wonder if this fungus can be intentionally cultured and airdropped | 22:59 |
| @fenn | another banana scare? this happens every year | 22:59 |
| kanzure | "The story of the African farm is the story of a threat to the world’s largest fruit crop. Commercially, bananas generate $8 billion annually and, according to the United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, more than 400 million people rely on the fruit as their primary source of calories." | 22:59 |
| kanzure | oh it does? | 22:59 |
| kanzure | surely someone is testing for the fungus and making financial decisions based on that | 22:59 |
| @fenn | "the future looks bleak. what will we ever do without bananas" | 22:59 |
| @fenn | actually that's misleading | 23:00 |
| kanzure | i wonder if you could do directed evolution for fungal resistance, without going through entire full-cycle generations of banana trees (or any other crop that sucks at fighting something) | 23:00 |
| @fenn | the banana at risk is the cavendish banana, but most people who eat "bananas" as a large portion of their caloric intake are actually eating "plantains" | 23:00 |
| kanzure | for example, you could do a basic cell culture and artificially complete the life cycle through inducement | 23:01 |
| @fenn | the problem is it's a clone; all the bananas are the same plant | 23:01 |
| @fenn | and it has no seeds | 23:01 |
| kanzure | why is that a problem for cell culture? | 23:01 |
| @ParahSailin | is cavendish the wrong ploidy to make zygotes? | 23:01 |
| @fenn | i, er... no comment | 23:02 |
| @fenn | why not just clone it in cell culture and modify the genome | 23:02 |
| @fenn | is that not a thing? | 23:02 |
| @fenn | agrobacterium | 23:02 |
| kanzure | great, what modification do you make | 23:03 |
| @ParahSailin | hey thats cool A recent development is the use of "somaclones" in banana cultivation. Micropropagation involves growing plants from very small amounts of source tissue, sometimes even a single cell, under sterile conditions using artificial techniques to induce growth. The purpose of micropropagation is often to produce a large number of genetically identical offspring. However, by inducing mutations through various means, it is | 23:03 |
| @ParahSailin | possible to produce plants which differ slightly from the "parent" plant and from each other ("somaclonal variations"). By growing on these somaclones and selecting those with desirable features, new cultivars can be produced which are very similar to an existing cultivar, but differ in one or two features, such as disease resistance. Somaclones may only be distinguishable by genetic analysis. | 23:03 |
| kanzure | is that from the article? | 23:03 |
| @ParahSailin | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banana_cultivars | 23:03 |
| kanzure | i wonder how many selection rounds are required to get disease resistance | 23:04 |
| kanzure | i'm not interested if it's going to take 100 billion rounds | 23:04 |
| @fenn | you could just inject random shotgun fragments of other banana species | 23:05 |
| kanzure | are other banana species resistant? | 23:06 |
| @fenn | i dunno | 23:06 |
| kanzure | why would that help then? | 23:06 |
| @ParahSailin | apparently useful http://apsjournals.apsnet.org/doi/pdf/10.1094/PDIS.2004.88.6.580 | 23:06 |
| kanzure | .title | 23:06 |
| @fenn | because the people demand a pink banana | 23:06 |
| yoleaux | An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie | 23:06 |
| kanzure | someone turn on paperbot | 23:06 |
| * fenn looks around | 23:06 | |
| kanzure | i'll do it.. | 23:09 |
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| @fenn | how do i get a scihub password | 23:11 |
| kanzure | it doesn't work anyway | 23:11 |
| dingo | next version will be rockbot | 23:11 |
| dingo | rockbot beats paperbot | 23:11 |
| dingo | or is it scissors | 23:11 |
| dingo | whatever | 23:11 |
| kanzure | next version is papermonk https://github.com/kanzure/papermonk | 23:11 |
| @fenn | scissorbot mopes in his castle and makes topiaries | 23:11 |
| kanzure | followed by paperpunk | 23:12 |
| @fenn | paperjunk | 23:13 |
| kanzure | be nice to the bot | 23:13 |
| paperbot | yeah | 23:14 |
| @fenn | ok so just take your gene shotgun and dope it up with zombie bananas, then blam blam and bob's your uncle | 23:16 |
| kanzure | "when a customer withdraws bitcoin from a Circle account, it automatically converted back into a local currency to be transferred into an existing bank account" | 23:17 |
| kanzure | this is the worst idea ever. how do you withdraw just your bitcoins from their website? | 23:17 |
| @fenn | you aren't withdrawing bitcoins, you're withdrawing "money" from "your account" | 23:17 |
| @fenn | trust me, i'm from the internet | 23:18 |
| kanzure | why can't you be one of the useful time travelers, like one that remembers schematics of future technology | 23:19 |
| @fenn | i remember schematics of future technology all the time... | 23:19 |
| @fenn | i don't know what to do with all this crap | 23:19 |
| kanzure | yeah but they're all just hexagons over and over again | 23:19 |
| kanzure | anyone can travel forward in time, big deal | 23:20 |
| @fenn | hey lay off my hexagon system | 23:20 |
| kanzure | :) | 23:20 |
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| @fenn | hexagons are the language of self assembly | 23:20 |
| @fenn | actually i never shared any of that | 23:20 |
| kanzure | i assumed it | 23:20 |
| @fenn | fair enough | 23:20 |
| kanzure | i mean what else is it going to be | 23:20 |
| kanzure | aquaman's trident? | 23:21 |
| @fenn | penrose tilings | 23:21 |
| @fenn | ghost diagrams | 23:21 |
| @fenn | topological manifolds | 23:21 |
| @fenn | what is "it" | 23:21 |
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| kanzure | well, it's because of bee hives | 23:22 |
| kanzure | nuclear bee hives | 23:22 |
| kanzure | in space | 23:22 |
| @fenn | newcomer, i welcome you to the church of hexagonalism | 23:22 |
| @fenn | have you heard of the prophet graham? | 23:22 |
| kanzure | uh maybe? | 23:23 |
| @fenn | should i even bother reading that thread on twister? | 23:23 |
| kanzure | the transhumanism thread? | 23:23 |
| kanzure | the answer is no | 23:23 |
| @fenn | ok | 23:23 |
| @fenn | she ended up saying something about mormons and i was briefly confused but decided i didn't really care | 23:24 |
| @fenn | i mean of all the religions in the world you pick mormonism? | 23:24 |
| @fenn | that's quite a leap | 23:25 |
| @fenn | how about something nice and noncommittal like taoism | 23:25 |
| kanzure | when i saw the thread first i was going to mention transfigurism/mormonism just because the person seemed unaware | 23:25 |
| @fenn | or jainism | 23:25 |
| kanzure | but then i realized i didn't care | 23:25 |
| @fenn | .wik jainism | 23:25 |
| yoleaux | "Jainism /ˈdʒeɪnɪz(ə)m/, traditionally known as Jaina dharma, is an Indian religion that prescribes a path of non-violence towards all living beings and emphasizes spiritual independence and equality between all forms of life. Practitioners believe that non-violence and self-control are the means by which they can obtain liberation." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism | 23:25 |
| @fenn | that sounds pretty reasonable doesn't it? | 23:25 |
| kanzure | twister is too full of itself, for a group of people that never speaks | 23:25 |
| kanzure | you would expect the epic lurkers to have the most to say, but instead it's just a pile of crap like everywher elese | 23:26 |
| kanzure | *else | 23:26 |
| kanzure | *everywhere | 23:26 |
| @fenn | i like reading rex kerr's comments | 23:26 |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7753589 | 23:28 |
| yoleaux | MS Security Essentials reporting false positives in the Bitcoin blockchain | 23:28 |
| kanzure | "So a joker decided to embed some Anti Virus bait in the blockchain, just a few bytes is enough to make the software go nuts deleting a whole lot of files the Bitcoin client needs. The solution the Bitcoin developers suggest is pure old-school malware style, XOR the blocks to hide it from the Anti Virus suites. Classic." https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/4069 | 23:28 |
| @fenn | gosh that actually works? | 23:29 |
| kanzure | "I seem to remember just having some text copy+pasted into IRC channels used to send peoples anti virus software into meltdown.. but this was sometime like 2000-2001" | 23:30 |
| kanzure | "For a while, some security suites would freak out and terminate an IRC connection if they saw the text "start keylogger" show up. You could get people to drop by saying it in a channel, for instance." | 23:30 |
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| @fenn | oh i remember that | 23:30 |
| @fenn | obviously paperbot is running the same software | 23:30 |
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| @fenn | start keylogger | 23:31 |
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| @fenn | :( | 23:31 |
| @fenn | :D | 23:31 |
| kanzure | stop doing that | 23:31 |
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| @fenn | must ... resist ... start ... key ... no! | 23:33 |
| @fenn | maybe if anti-ecoterroriests *ahem* killed all the bananas, consumers would finally accept GMO foods | 23:37 |
| kanzure | monsanto compelled me to do it, your honor | 23:38 |
| @fenn | somebody think of the GMO children! | 23:38 |
| sheena | https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1453211280/cleverpet-a-console-that-teaches-and-feeds-your-do/ probably i need this | 23:39 |
| kanzure | uh circle.com gives out bitcoins for credit cards? wtf http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid3565727796001?bckey=AQ~~,AAAAAAABkyY~,NsA8xqWnIh_OFp1f8gq7kAsRpDHRjsjN&bctid=3569471188001 | 23:40 |
| @fenn | sheena it's like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_(game) | 23:41 |
| @fenn | how many credit cards can i buy with 1 bitcoin? | 23:42 |
| sheena | yeah but for dogs | 23:42 |
| kanzure | oh, they are not allowing you to withdraw bitcoins at all, so it just stays in their system. that's fucked up. | 23:42 |
| @fenn | kanzure: you're just now realizing this? | 23:43 |
| kanzure | well, they didn't release their product until today | 23:43 |
| kanzure | so yes? | 23:43 |
| @fenn | i got it from "when a customer withdraws bitcoin from a Circle account, it automatically converted back into a local currency to be transferred into an existing bank account" | 23:44 |
| kanzure | as far as i can tell, they don't even let you deposit bitcoins | 23:44 |
| @fenn | at least gmail lets you download mail with POP3/IMAP | 23:45 |
| kanzure | and if you also can't withdraw, then how are you going to make any payments? what's the product for | 23:45 |
| @fenn | you put "money" in | 23:45 |
| @fenn | you send them hate mail with proof of work attached | 23:46 |
| kanzure | provable hate is a nice concept | 23:46 |
| kanzure | sheena: the arduino/raspberrypi project you picked out is a good intro project | 23:47 |
| @fenn | i hate you *this much* 23fc6625a54f86ce0c9002dbaa2fed9646e40d9a | 23:47 |
| kanzure | sheena: i mean, you'll want to wire up a blinkenlights thing first, but a vending machine mechanism is pretty basic | 23:47 |
| kanzure | https://www.vending.com/wfdata/frame515-1175/index_files/image020.jpg | 23:48 |
| @fenn | "lumosity for dogs" only works if you believe in lumosity | 23:48 |
| sheena | lol | 23:48 |
| kanzure | i think it's more like, "for people who feel bad about leaving dogs home alone all day" | 23:48 |
| @fenn | ugh auger dispensers are the worst | 23:48 |
| sheena | lumosity in the "keep peolpe busy doing things" sense, not the "make them genises" sense? | 23:48 |
| kanzure | penises? | 23:48 |
| @fenn | genii penii what's the difference | 23:49 |
| @fenn | .ety genius | 23:49 |
| yoleaux | genius (n.): "late 14c., "tutelary god (classical or pagan)," from Latin genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation, wit, talent;" also "prophetic skill," originally "generative power," from root of …" — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=genius | 23:49 |
| @fenn | .ety penis | 23:49 |
| yoleaux | penis (n.): "1670s, perhaps from French pénis or directly from Latin penis "penis," earlier "tail," from PIE *pes- "penis" (cognates: Sanskrit pasas-, Greek peos, posthe "penis," probably also Old English fæsl "progeny, offspring," Old Norse fösull, …" — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=penis | 23:49 |
| @fenn | tail? | 23:50 |
| @fenn | how the heck do you get "penis" from "fösull" | 23:50 |
| kanzure | .ety genius | 23:51 |
| yoleaux | genius (n.): "late 14c., "tutelary god (classical or pagan)," from Latin genius "guardian deity or spirit which watches over each person from birth; spirit, incarnation, wit, talent;" also "prophetic skill," originally "generative power," from root of …" — http://etymonline.com/index.php?term=genius | 23:51 |
| @fenn | sheena: yoleaux works for me | 23:52 |
| kanzure | ? | 23:52 |
| sheena | yoleaux? | 23:52 |
| @fenn | the bot | 23:52 |
| @fenn | aka "completeley automated system to entertain computers and humans alike" | 23:53 |
| kanzure | sheena: you can get a kit from sparkfun.com i bet | 23:53 |
| sheena | oh instead of lumosity | 23:54 |
| @fenn | the smartest dog would do nothing, and continue receiving food "for free" | 23:54 |
| @fenn | that would require time travel though | 23:54 |
| -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@pool-173-74-79-151.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:55 | |
| kanzure | "As China's economy continues to cool, companies are waiting longer and finding it harder to get paid for goods and services they've already sold, leading to record amounts of receivables - and potential write-offs - on corporate balance sheets. As one Chinese business owner exclaimed: "If you don't pay me and I pay others, aren't I just a sucker? I'm not that stupid." Receivables on average (across 2300 firms) reached $160.49 million at the ... | 23:55 |
| kanzure | ... end of last year, more than double the $65.9 million average at the end of 2009 and median collection time for billings crawled up from 71.4 days to 90.42 days (the first time above 90 days)." | 23:55 |
| kanzure | so wait... i can just buy equipment. and not pay? | 23:55 |
| kanzure | as long as i'm not their largest customer, they probably don't have any incentive to pursue legal action | 23:56 |
| QuantumG | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channel_stuffing | 23:56 |
| @fenn | taking delayed payments to the limit and you get communism | 23:57 |
| kanzure | oh wait, you have to find someone willing to ship before payment | 23:58 |
| QuantumG | that's mostly everyone who isn't dealing with end-users | 23:59 |
| kanzure | alibaba merchants? | 23:59 |
| QuantumG | I think so, yes | 23:59 |
| kanzure | i guess they already ship free samples, so why not | 23:59 |
| --- Log closed Fri May 16 00:00:04 2014 | ||
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