| --- Log opened Tue Nov 25 00:00:01 2014 | ||
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| archels | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnmeth.3149 | 04:37 |
|---|---|---|
| archels | "Neurobiology: rethinking the electrode" | 04:37 |
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| kanzure | hmm | 05:23 |
| FAMAS | kanzure: ??? | 05:26 |
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| kanzure | FAMAS: who are you? | 05:30 |
| FAMAS | kanzure: a transhumanism lover | 05:31 |
| kanzure | https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/User:Gmaxwell/things_im_surprised_dont_exist | 05:36 |
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| eudoxia | why don't we write all our systems code in ocaml | 05:45 |
| kanzure | you first | 06:08 |
| Qfwfq | Jane Street first | 06:11 |
| Qfwfq | Oh wait | 06:11 |
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| kanzure | https://securelist.com/blog/research/67741/regin-nation-state-ownage-of-gsm-networks/ | 07:23 |
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| kanzure | 10:02 < op_null> for a while they had all the transaction validity checks disabled in order for Mt Gox's invalid transactions to show up in their block explorer. https://people.xiph.org/~greg/21mbtc.png | 10:12 |
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| eudoxia | i should get one of those cool vanity addresses | 10:49 |
| eudoxia | i ran vanity gen once for six hours but it didn't find anything ;c | 10:49 |
| kanzure | 1HPLUS8HAoWZM8QCFzRxNPrMZc2JJe8Je2 | 10:52 |
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| nickjohnson | I just put these up at my work makerspace: https://i.imgur.com/Pj7ECW0.jpg https://i.imgur.com/bD8EXkN.jpg | 11:09 |
| nickjohnson | http://lifeboat.com/ex/warning.signs.for.tomorrow if people haven't seen them before | 11:09 |
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| fenn | nice lab | 11:12 |
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| fenn | so GMT+3 is moscow, but wouldn't lunch-time at 15:00 GMT mean GMT-3? which ... greenland? or brazil? | 11:20 |
| kanzure | weren't you listening the other day, it's impossible to agree about time | 11:20 |
| nmz787_i | is this leading to some joke about greenwich mean time something something 'sandwich' | 11:24 |
| fenn | if someone says "timestamps in GMT" and there's something happening at 15:00, that means it's 3 pm in england right? | 11:25 |
| nmz787_i | 'sandwich time!' | 11:25 |
| fenn | nmz787_i: no | 11:25 |
| nmz787_i | "my watch is on sandwich standard time, it's always time for a snack!" | 11:26 |
| Qfwfq | fenn: Depends on whether DST is in effect, I think, BST is sometimes one hour forward. | 11:27 |
| Qfwfq | The UK switch from GMT to BST between March and October, BST is UTC+1. | 11:29 |
| fenn | EDT is still GMT-4 which is an hour late, unless these guys work 8-4 and have lunch at 11 | 11:31 |
| yorick | fenn: time at greenwich is sometimes greenwich mean time + 1 | 11:31 |
| yorick | I guess it's technically mean if the winter part just lasts slightly longer | 11:31 |
| fenn | i don't care about greenwich daylight time shenanigans | 11:31 |
| yorick | no, that's median | 11:31 |
| fenn | the time stamps are in GMT, that's all | 11:31 |
| Qfwfq | But you asked about England :D | 11:32 |
| yorick | fenn: yeah that's in the summer one hour earlier than the time in england, and in the winter the same | 11:32 |
| fenn | -_- | 11:32 |
| Qfwfq | yorick: Decided if you're going to CCC? | 11:33 |
| fenn | after i finish bombarding the remains of earth civilization from orbit, i'm imposing UTC everywhere | 11:33 |
| yorick | Qfwfq: I have no idea! I'm supposed to be moving too and oh god how do trains even work and where would I sleep | 11:33 |
| yorick | Qfwfq: but it would probably be fun | 11:34 |
| Qfwfq | They've arranged for cheaper rent at a hotel and a couple hostels, I think, check the blog. | 11:35 |
| Qfwfq | Raichoo is doing a talk on Idris + LangSec, which I'm looking forward to | 11:35 |
| fenn | fucking trains, how do they work? they use magnets. | 11:35 |
| * yorick doesn't have internet access right now, irc is connecting through an ssh tunnel running on magic | 11:35 | |
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| Qfwfq | Isn't the obvious solution to tunnel HTTP over SSH/SOCKS? | 11:38 |
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| heath | is paperbot reliant on python3? | 11:43 |
| fenn | no | 11:44 |
| fenn | in fact it requires python 2 | 11:44 |
| kanzure | that should be a bug | 11:44 |
| fenn | it's a pdfminer bug | 11:44 |
| kanzure | oh, pdfparanoia? | 11:44 |
| kanzure | heath: https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/issues/44 | 11:45 |
| kanzure | and https://github.com/kanzure/pdfparanoia/pull/43 | 11:45 |
| fenn | why isn't .six merged back upstream to pdfminer? | 11:46 |
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| fenn | jeez -wizards was busy last night | 11:50 |
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| kanzure | because someone was wrong on the internet | 12:05 |
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| heath | superkuh: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/+NASA/albums/6085688927495255393/6085688928814472338?pid=6085688928814472338&oid=102371865054310418159 | 12:09 |
| heath | .title | 12:09 |
| yoleaux | 25. November 2014 | 12:09 |
| heath | "Supercomputer Simulation of Magnetic Field Loops on the Sun:" | 12:09 |
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| kanzure | heath: https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/33 https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/34 https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/35 https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/36 | 12:55 |
| superkuh | Cool stuff. I don't really understand most computer models since the implementation math is above my head. I do know that even the most complex and thorough computer models of the observable sun can't included all the known details. The range of length and time scales required span from km and tens of seconds for magnetic reconnection to the coronal magnetic memory involving millions of km and years. Modeling bits in high enough temporal | 12:58 |
| superkuh | or spatial resolution necessarily makes it infeasible for large volumes or time spans. | 12:58 |
| nmz787_i | huh, aip.org IP stamps include local IP range (I am reading a paper now and the stamp says 192.55....) | 12:59 |
| nmz787_i | that's not a public range is it? | 12:59 |
| nmz787_i | *in the public range | 12:59 |
| nmz787_i | weird... someone is using a wikipedia user-profile to host relevant information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Emicroprobe | 13:04 |
| nmz787_i | that seems clearly more informative than https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_microprobe | 13:05 |
| fenn | PING aip.org (212.54.151.34) | 13:06 |
| fenn | wow Creation Date: 1989 | 13:07 |
| nmz787_i | well the stamps/watermarks I thought were supposed to indicate the company/university who paid for the subscription, such that they could catch people leaking papers | 13:07 |
| jrayhawk | 192/8 is assigned to ARIN, but I think this is official policy roundup: http://www.iana.org/assignments/iana-ipv4-special-registry/iana-ipv4-special-registry.xhtml | 13:08 |
| jrayhawk | which doesn't cover 192.55/16 | 13:09 |
| jrayhawk | https://www.arin.net/knowledge/micro_allocations.html "Micro-allocations for Critical Infrastructure" | 13:10 |
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| fenn | ah so it's not just me | 13:12 |
| fenn | "cuckoo is based on really is a coherent understandable problem. The problems which the core of cryptographically secure hash functions are based on amount to 'looks like it mashes it up real good and we haven't been able to break it'" | 13:13 |
| fenn | cuckoo uses graph traversal as the "hard problem" | 13:14 |
| chris_99 | nmz787_i, might you be able to recommend which microfluidics slide to get from https://www.anfractuosity.com/files/microfluidics/Product%20code_USD.pdf (the majority are mixing ones, but i'm not really sure of the differences). I'm looking at getting YM-01 maybe | 13:14 |
| kanzure | fenn: keep reading the logs though... | 13:16 |
| fenn | just the idea that nobody has any clue how crypto actually works | 13:18 |
| fenn | even people who invented it | 13:18 |
| fenn | all gmaxwell is saying is that you can build a bad crypto system out of good parts | 13:25 |
| heath | kanzure: https://gist.github.com/heath/e6d4544241f037fbe3cd | 13:30 |
| kanzure | is this phenny? | 13:30 |
| heath | i'm guessing your phenny conf looks similar | 13:30 |
| heath | yeah | 13:30 |
| kanzure | eh, i guess | 13:31 |
| heath | heh | 13:31 |
| heath | k | 13:31 |
| kanzure | don't get confused by paperbot1 vs paperbot2 | 13:31 |
| heath | kanzure: thanks | 13:39 |
| heath | fenn: :P i'm not going to spam the room | 13:40 |
| fenn | heath are you in nashville now? | 13:40 |
| heath | fenn: i left | 13:40 |
| heath | i'm in naples, fl | 13:41 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: really hard to say what those microfluidics are doing with a macro picture. you want something with pillars to break up the flow | 13:41 |
| fenn | heath: is that the place with the 3d glasses company? | 13:41 |
| fenn | hm. pop 20k | 13:41 |
| heath | fenn: there's a company in nashville working on glasses for manufacturing, they are looking into AR at some point | 13:42 |
| fenn | naples is "the second highest proportion of millionaires per capita in the US" | 13:42 |
| chris_99 | yeah you can zoom in acttually which sort of helps do you think ym-01 looks reasonable as it has the circular mixer part, and some squiggly thing before it | 13:42 |
| heath | ..in nashville | 13:42 |
| fenn | heath: i was talking about "magic leap" which is in fort lauderdale, so nevermind | 13:43 |
| fenn | not too far away tho | 13:44 |
| heath | yeah, larger cities are only a couple hours away | 13:44 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: that wouldn't be an array of posts | 13:44 |
| heath | if you ever want to visit, we have a guest room | 13:44 |
| heath | pretty sites... | 13:44 |
| heath | https://i.imgur.com/GvldH6R.jpg | 13:44 |
| heath | front yard | 13:45 |
| heath | https://i.imgur.com/vU0h8jj.jpg | 13:45 |
| heath | wildlife! | 13:45 |
| heath | https://i.imgur.com/8RwPqGj.jpg | 13:45 |
| heath | giant coconut tree in front yard | 13:45 |
| heath | https://i.imgur.com/ztGm29w.jpg | 13:45 |
| chris_99 | nmz787_i, don't get you, it has 2 inputs, 1 output, isn't that what i need, to mix blue dye with beer | 13:45 |
| fenn | .distance "fort lauderdale" ... "naples florida" | 13:45 |
| yoleaux | fenn: 165.49 km linear distance between Fort Lauderdale, FL, USA ... Naples, FL, USA, see http://google.com/maps?q=to:%22fort+lauderdale%22+to:%22naples+florida%22 | 13:45 |
| fenn | watch for falling coconuts :P | 13:47 |
| fenn | guys i need advice, is chocolate a food or a drug? | 13:51 |
| fenn | or an "herbal supplement" | 13:52 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: it just depends on the two solutions you're mixing... a simple curvy channel seems to be effective for some things http://i.ytimg.com/vi/oS3lxh9XFbk/hqdefault.jpg | 13:54 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: for other things they have a field of posts that stuff flows past to mix | 13:54 |
| chris_99 | when you say post do you mean something like the oddly shaped diamonds in the M-04 one? | 13:56 |
| fenn | an array of circles/cylinders | 13:57 |
| fenn | i guess you'd use posts when the channel width is large, and wave channel when it's small | 13:57 |
| chris_99 | aha gotcha | 13:58 |
| * fenn skims http://www.elveflow.com/microfluidic-reviews-and-tutorials/microfluidic-mixers-a-short-review | 14:00 | |
| chris_99 | i think i was just on that | 14:00 |
| chris_99 | oh no | 14:01 |
| chris_99 | that looks cool though | 14:01 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: pics I could quickly dig up http://www.nature.com/nprot/journal/v8/n8/covers/largecover.gif | 14:01 |
| nmz787_i | pic | 14:01 |
| fenn | those zigzag protrusions looks like they could catch and snag cells | 14:01 |
| chris_99 | mmm they do | 14:01 |
| nmz787_i | yeah the post-post space would have to be large enough for a cell to pass by | 14:01 |
| fenn | not related to spacing, just the poky thorn shape | 14:02 |
| chris_99 | i'm thinking a simple one like YM-01 might be enough now, provided the dye easily mixes, which i think it would? | 14:02 |
| fenn | cell shredders are just nano razor blades | 14:02 |
| chris_99 | as theres nothing to catch the yeast | 14:02 |
| nmz787_i | yeah I'm thinking cylindrical posts, not slicers | 14:03 |
| nmz787_i | this is an extreme version http://images.sciencedaily.com/2011/03/110329134134-large.jpg | 14:03 |
| nmz787_i | you'd want much further pitch | 14:03 |
| nmz787_i | *greater pitch | 14:03 |
| chris_99 | aha interesting | 14:04 |
| nmz787_i | the st-01 looks like it may have more zigzags | 14:04 |
| nmz787_i | but it is hard to tell | 14:04 |
| nmz787_i | the pdf is really low res | 14:04 |
| fenn | i'd think a 3d crossover network would make for more thorough mixing, like take the left half and put it in the center of the right half, repeat | 14:04 |
| nmz787_i | the m02 looks good too | 14:04 |
| fenn | throw in a prime number or two | 14:04 |
| nmz787_i | m02 is this http://archive.nanofab.utah.edu/TechnologyLibrary/Micromixer/sinemassfract.jpg | 14:04 |
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| chris_99 | yeah the pdf is a bit naff, yeah m02 does look good | 14:05 |
| fenn | glad that's settled | 14:05 |
| chris_99 | i'm confused why they're even £21 though, are they generally acid etched somehow? | 14:06 |
| fenn | because "central banks" | 14:06 |
| fenn | or the somebody-else's-money-problem | 14:06 |
| chris_99 | heh | 14:06 |
| fenn | almost certainly nothing to do with the cost to manufacture | 14:06 |
| fenn | how is m02 any different from a series of semicircular posts? | 14:08 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: see last image i posted | 14:08 |
| fenn | i'm looking at it.. | 14:09 |
| fenn | i guess the straight stream has more velocity and the momentum causes it to push through the wavy stream? | 14:09 |
| chris_99 | http://www.docstoc.com/docs/154188607/PDMS-fabrication-_-Microfluidic-channel-system seems quite nice, so they instead do photolith on PDMS rather than glass | 14:10 |
| nmz787_i | the scale of the radius of curvature of the siny waves would/should be much larger than that of a cylindrical post | 14:10 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: the cheapest way to manufacture PDMS fluidics is to have a nice glass or silicon negative then just replicate that whenever someone places an order (or they have an inventory based on this process) | 14:12 |
| nmz787_i | it would not make sense to do lithography for each replica of the same design | 14:12 |
| chris_99 | yes, good point | 14:14 |
| nmz787_i | you take your master, coat it in anti-stiction (FDTS or something, like that never-wet spray except without the silica particles), slather on silicone and degas, then cure, peel, activate with oxygen plasma and bond to coverslip/flat PDMS slab | 14:14 |
| nmz787_i | (or instead of plasma bonding, peel off before fully curing, in hopes that the final curing will bond to the cover slab) | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | ah so it acts like a stencil | 14:14 |
| chris_99 | sort of | 14:14 |
| nmz787_i | or use some glue of some sort (more PDMS, or superglue) | 14:15 |
| nmz787_i | for glass/silicon fluidics, you don't have the same stamp-ability | 14:16 |
| nmz787_i | and you have a choice of prototyping vs manufacturing scale processes | 14:17 |
| chris_99 | whats the advantage of say glass fluidics | 14:18 |
| chris_99 | over PDMS | 14:18 |
| nmz787_i | better chemical resistance in a lot of cases | 14:18 |
| nmz787_i | higher pressures achievable | 14:18 |
| chris_99 | aha, makes sense | 14:19 |
| nmz787_i | different gas permeability | 14:19 |
| nmz787_i | glass is less flexible which is often seen as a constraint | 14:19 |
| nmz787_i | but if you need the chemical resistance, you often see people using a fluoridated-layer-coated coverslip of some elastic material | 14:20 |
| nmz787_i | so they can still have valves and pumps on-chip | 14:20 |
| nmz787_i | and i've heard that some companies make glass fluidics where they simply thin certain areas enough that you can flex the glass section to get valving | 14:21 |
| nmz787_i | but then your pumped volume would probably have to be very shallow and wide | 14:21 |
| chris_99 | wow | 14:21 |
| fenn | is it true that PDMS gets micro-bubbles? | 14:21 |
| chris_99 | say you wanted to play with ink output from a piezoelectric inkjet head, i assume that's require very fancy chips? as you'd be dealing with tiny droplets | 14:22 |
| nmz787_i | the bio-printer folks could help you more | 14:22 |
| nmz787_i | since they use printer heads | 14:22 |
| fenn | the printer has most of the relevant electronics in it already | 14:22 |
| nmz787_i | fenn: as a result of incomplete gassing before curing? or as gas permeates the walls later? | 14:22 |
| fenn | you can't really buy a piezo print head separately | 14:23 |
| chris_99 | fenn, i mean microfluidic chips | 14:23 |
| fenn | chris_99: you want to build your own piezo inkjet? | 14:23 |
| nmz787_i | i think he wants to hook them together | 14:23 |
| chris_99 | no fenn, i was curious if you could mix droplets | 14:24 |
| chris_99 | from the inkjet head | 14:24 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: i believe the newest inkjet print heads can do a few whole number picoliters per droplet | 14:24 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: 1 micron cubed is a femtoliter | 14:25 |
| chris_99 | so you're saying it's so tiny, it may be too hard to deal with? | 14:25 |
| nmz787_i | so it would still be considered 'micro' at least | 14:25 |
| nmz787_i | well, it's not nanofludic! | 14:26 |
| nmz787_i | so it's easier than that :P | 14:26 |
| chris_99 | heh | 14:26 |
| chris_99 | on the plus side :) | 14:26 |
| fenn | but how would you catch the droplet reliably | 14:26 |
| nmz787_i | you could probably just mate the fluidic directly to the print head | 14:26 |
| chris_99 | mmm | 14:26 |
| nmz787_i | and it would act like a pump | 14:26 |
| fenn | if the head is submerged in liquid the droplet wouldn't separate | 14:27 |
| nmz787_i | fenn, no matter if you can just push another volume | 14:27 |
| fenn | you don't need a print head for that | 14:27 |
| nmz787_i | it's actually probably the cheapest picoliter metering pump commonly available | 14:27 |
| chris_99 | yeah | 14:28 |
| nmz787_i | which is actually interesting | 14:28 |
| chris_99 | mmm the printers themselves are like £30 which is crazy cheap | 14:28 |
| fenn | chinese refill ink is pretty cheap too fwiw | 14:29 |
| chris_99 | mmm i only ever use that | 14:29 |
| chris_99 | why aren't all inkjets piezo based? | 14:30 |
| fenn | i liked the idea of a hot wax piezo jet 3d printer | 14:30 |
| chris_99 | patent issue? | 14:30 |
| nmz787_i | you might be able to hook it up without butting the two together, using some fiducial-like system... i.e. some fluidic port with an LED or photodiode below it, that could tell you when your droplet hit (so you knew your other more important ports off to the side were lined up) | 14:30 |
| nmz787_i | idk | 14:30 |
| fenn | for a long time epson had patents on piezo | 14:30 |
| chris_99 | aha | 14:30 |
| fenn | and bubblejet is cheaper | 14:30 |
| fenn | just a resistor, how hard is that | 14:30 |
| chris_99 | bubblejet uses heat somehow right? | 14:30 |
| fenn | thin film resistor vaporizes a tiny bubble of water | 14:31 |
| chris_99 | aha cool | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | that bubble is not the ink, right? | 14:31 |
| fenn | for microfluidics you can do the same thing with a laser to create the steam bubble | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | i mean the water drop is reused | 14:31 |
| nmz787_i | ? | 14:31 |
| fenn | the bubble is steam from vaporized ink | 14:32 |
| fenn | i shouldn't have said water, sorry | 14:32 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 14:32 |
| fenn | it probably contains mostly alcohol vapor | 14:32 |
| chris_99 | "To eject a droplet from each chamber, a pulse of current is passed through the heating element causing a rapid vaporization of the ink in the chamber to form a bubble, which causes a large pressure increase, propelling a droplet of ink onto the paper " | 14:32 |
| nmz787_i | you would still need a valve then, but it could be a spring-closed valve | 14:32 |
| nmz787_i | so passive | 14:32 |
| fenn | you could use a "valvular conduit" (another tesla invention) | 14:33 |
| fenn | similar to a valveless pulsejet | 14:33 |
| nmz787_i | the man or the company? | 14:33 |
| fenn | the man | 14:33 |
| fenn | http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/valvular.htm | 14:33 |
| chris_99 | ooh | 14:34 |
| chris_99 | that's nifty | 14:34 |
| fenn | basically a check valve with no moving parts, or a high pass fluid rectifier, or something | 14:34 |
| fenn | the point is, for high frequency components, fluid only flows one direction | 14:35 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYlP5TEKf2w#t=234 | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | some CFD | 14:36 |
| nmz787_i | says 40X more resistance in one direction than the other | 14:37 |
| fenn | computational marble dynamics | 14:38 |
| nmz787_i | it would be a lot of fun to get a group of folks together to go to this http://www.microscopy.org/MandM/2015/index.cfm | 14:38 |
| nmz787_i | next august | 14:38 |
| nmz787_i | easy for me since it's just downtown | 14:39 |
| fenn | "the United Nations General Assembly proclaimed 2015 as the “International Year of Light and Light-Based Technologies” | 14:39 |
| fenn | the international geophysical year made a lot more sense... | 14:40 |
| fenn | that video ignores the fact that the valvular conduit works best with high frequency alternating fluid flows | 14:43 |
| nmz787_i | hmm, well I don't think that regime would apply to these microfluidics devices we're talking about | 14:44 |
| fenn | why not? | 14:44 |
| fenn | if you're vaporizing micro steam bubbles to pump stuff around | 14:44 |
| fenn | even tiny masses have inertia | 14:44 |
| nmz787_i | but what about the down-time, when you are just idling? | 14:44 |
| fenn | uh, i don't care? | 14:45 |
| nmz787_i | NEVER STOP FLUIDICING | 14:45 |
| fenn | with no pumping action, back flow would be limited to diffusion | 14:45 |
| fenn | or maybe some kind of thermal shrinkage due to the fluid cooling | 14:45 |
| chris_99 | http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0103547 | 14:46 |
| chris_99 | .title | 14:46 |
| yoleaux | PLOS ONE: Low-Cost Motility Tracking System (LOCOMOTIS) for Time-Lapse Microscopy Applications and Cell Visualisation | 14:46 |
| nmz787_i | yeah so assuming the microfluidic was not on the plane of the beer-tank surface, there would be pressure in one direction or another | 14:46 |
| fenn | then what do you need a pump for | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | pumping | 14:47 |
| fenn | ok i give up | 14:47 |
| chris_99 | i need to pump the dye | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | if the fluidic is to be resistant to a changing environment, you need some boundaries | 14:47 |
| nmz787_i | say he keeps the system on a shelf, but to turn it on he brings it down to the table level | 14:48 |
| fenn | ok float the dye in a bottle inside the beer tank :P | 14:48 |
| chris_99 | heh | 14:48 |
| fenn | what could possibly go wrong | 14:48 |
| nmz787_i | st patricks day beer if it's green dye | 14:49 |
| chris_99 | haha | 14:49 |
| chris_99 | so i only want to do this everything 30mins, so i think a pump is necessary | 14:49 |
| chris_99 | or at least a valve | 14:49 |
| heath | pdfparanoia installation failure: https://gist.githubusercontent.com/heath/8256e75cf50f1cf32e18/raw/ebd890a48f14f4817f5804a122a7b42ba14ecb38/gistfile1.txt | 14:49 |
| heath | bbl | 14:49 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: with a check-valve, you could also as fenn mentioned use gravity | 14:50 |
| nmz787_i | check-valve to prevent backflow, and then you lower the fluidic and it acts like a siphon | 14:50 |
| chris_99 | but i'd still need a solenoid ? | 14:50 |
| nmz787_i | in that idea no | 14:50 |
| nmz787_i | it's also assuming that things won't clog up | 14:51 |
| fenn | you'd need a rube-goldberg device to raise/lower the chip | 14:51 |
| chris_99 | mmm, a cd-drive fenn | 14:51 |
| nmz787_i | set-off by a cat | 14:51 |
| fenn | chased by a dog | 14:51 |
| chris_99 | haha | 14:51 |
| fenn | check valves suck, just use a pdms circuit and a solenoid | 14:52 |
| nmz787_i | well some stressed PDMS could be a check valve | 14:52 |
| nmz787_i | it would only have to resist atmospheric pressure | 14:53 |
| nmz787_i | or around there | 14:53 |
| fenn | what was wrong with optical density again? | 14:54 |
| nmz787_i | that's so 1920s | 14:54 |
| fenn | you can spruce it up with an LED | 14:54 |
| chris_99 | it can't tell live from dead right? | 14:54 |
| chris_99 | heh | 14:54 |
| fenn | no seriously, two LEDs and some resistors, there's your circuit | 14:54 |
| nmz787_i | maybe if the light source was a laser on the head of a shark, i'd be more OK with that | 14:55 |
| chris_99 | like i said though fenn? | 14:55 |
| nmz787_i | no it wouldn't, unless they flocced out differently | 14:55 |
| nmz787_i | if that was the case, then you could use that probably | 14:55 |
| nmz787_i | just sample from the top/upper | 14:55 |
| fenn | the shark doubles as a bioreactor mixer | 14:55 |
| chris_99 | haha | 14:55 |
| nmz787_i | lol | 14:55 |
| chris_99 | ....and it protects the beer | 14:56 |
| chris_99 | from intruders | 14:56 |
| nmz787_i | :) | 14:56 |
| fenn | was impedance spectroscopy too hard? it sounded like the simplest overall | 14:56 |
| chris_99 | let me check that one again, i've lost track what that was | 14:57 |
| fenn | assuming you knew what frequencies to check it could be a really simple circuit | 14:57 |
| chris_99 | hmmm | 14:57 |
| nmz787_i | yeah that chips was an all-in-one | 14:57 |
| chris_99 | i guess that also can't tell live from dead | 14:57 |
| nmz787_i | I think it said you might be able to at some freqs | 14:58 |
| chris_99 | oh yeah it was a bit odd that bit | 14:58 |
| nmz787_i | something about intercellular data | 14:58 |
| fenn | .title http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956566313002832 | 14:58 |
| yoleaux | Dielectric spectroscopy as a viable biosensing tool for cell and tissue characterization and analysis | 14:58 |
| nmz787_i | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268098043_IMPEDANCE_SPECTROSCOPY_MICROFLUIDIC_MULTICHANNEL_SENSOR_PLATFORM_FOR_LIQUID_ANALYSIS | 14:59 |
| nmz787_i | .wik molded interconnect device | 14:59 |
| yoleaux | "A molded interconnect device (MID) is an injection-molded thermoplastic part with integrated electronic circuit traces. The use of high temperature thermoplastics and their structured metallization opens a new dimension of circuit carrier design to the electronics industry." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molded_interconnect_device | 14:59 |
| nmz787_i | hmm | 14:59 |
| fenn | .wik moldy interconnect | 14:59 |
| yoleaux | "A molded interconnect device (MID) is an injection-molded thermoplastic part with integrated electronic circuit traces. The use of high temperature thermoplastics and their structured metallization opens a new dimension of circuit carrier design to the electronics industry." — http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molded_interconnect_device | 15:00 |
| fenn | sorry | 15:00 |
| nmz787_i | lol | 15:00 |
| nmz787_i | well that seems pretty advanced | 15:00 |
| fenn | we don't want advanced, we want simple | 15:00 |
| nmz787_i | paperbot: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0956566313002832 | 15:01 |
| paperbot | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/paperbot/%0A%20Dielectric%20spectroscopy%20as%20a%20viable%20biosensing%20tool%20for%20cell%20and%20tissue%20characterization%20and%20analysis%0A%20.pdf | 15:01 |
| chris_99 | the dye + microfluidic chip + microscope seems kind of the simplest i guess so far, as it's only the pumping which would be hard i guess | 15:01 |
| nmz787_i | chris_99: on the other hand, you might be able to sterilize some carbon electodes and be done with your aseptic/handling side of things | 15:02 |
| chris_99 | mm if that was easy to do the impedance way | 15:02 |
| nmz787_i | though fouling could also be an issue there | 15:02 |
| chris_99 | that'd be cool | 15:02 |
| nmz787_i | idk | 15:02 |
| chris_99 | in that paper i linked to up above, that guy is using the same kind of cheapo 'microscope' i ordered | 15:03 |
| nmz787_i | I would check your yeast and see if the dead ones floc or not | 15:03 |
| chris_99 | yeah i'll read up on that | 15:03 |
| nmz787_i | can you see this http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140417/srep04717/extref/srep04717-s1.pdf | 15:03 |
| chris_99 | i think so, seems to be loading | 15:04 |
| chris_99 | my net is super slow | 15:04 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.nature.com/srep/2014/140417/srep04717/full/srep04717.html | 15:04 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fsrep04717 | 15:04 |
| fenn | on prancer on dasher on blixen on vixen | 15:05 |
| * fenn waits for siberian reindeer to trek their way here with the paper in tow | 15:05 | |
| nmz787_i | Our lensfree on-chip imaging platform operates by recording the interference of the light that is scattered from the target objects with the unscattered background light, which is digitally sampled using a complementary metal-oxide semiconductor (CMOS) imager chip (Aptina MT9P031STC, 5 megapixels, 2.2 μm pixel size, monochrome). Briefly, a glass cover slip containing the cells of interest, located on a sliding tray approximately 1 | 15:05 |
| nmz787_i | mm above the CMOS chip, is illuminated with a single green LED that is spatially masked by a 0.1 mm pinhole, which is used to fine tune the spatial coherence diameter at the cell and detector planes so that lensfree holograms can be sampled at the CMOS imager chip. The overall fringe magnification of this system is ~1, and therefore the entire active area of the CMOS chip becomes the imaging FOV, where the cells can be imaged | 15:05 |
| nmz787_i | across e.g., ~24 mm2, which is around 10-fold larger than the FOV of a typical 10× objective-lens. The complete mode of operation and the physics of this on-chip imaging platform has been thoroughly described previously13, 28. | 15:05 |
| chris_99 | am i right in thinking they whacked that straight onto the CMOS chip? | 15:05 |
| fenn | what does motility have to do with viability | 15:06 |
| fenn | yes it's just a LED and a CMOS chip | 15:06 |
| nmz787_i | probably nothing in chris_99s case | 15:06 |
| chris_99 | ah yeah on the other page, that's cool | 15:06 |
| nmz787_i | except that the dead ones wont be motile | 15:06 |
| nmz787_i | i think it said it was to constrain the cells while they tested optics | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i | or algorithms | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i | (the use of gel) | 15:07 |
| nmz787_i | http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2013/LC/c3lc41408f#!divAbstract | 15:08 |
| nmz787_i | http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v9/n9/full/nmeth.2114.html | 15:08 |
| paperbot | http://libgen.org/scimag/get.php?doi=10.1038%2Fnmeth.2114 | 15:08 |
| nmz787_i | http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2010/LC/c003477k#!divAbstract | 15:08 |
| fenn | .title | 15:08 |
| yoleaux | Lensfree microscopy on a cellphone - Lab on a Chip (RSC Publishing) | 15:08 |
| nmz787_i | 'We demonstrate lensfree digital microscopy on a cellphone' | 15:08 |
| fenn | woop | 15:09 |
| chris_99 | fancy! | 15:09 |
| fenn | heath: are you using pip-installed pdfminer or apt-get installed? | 15:09 |
| chris_99 | can we get the pdf of that? | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | paperbot: http://pubs.rsc.org/en/Content/ArticleLanding/2010/LC/c003477k#!divAbstract | 15:10 |
| fenn | why is that fancy | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | just because it's so simple | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | and it works | 15:10 |
| chris_99 | that's probably a bad usage of the word fancy ;) | 15:10 |
| heath | fenn: pip | 15:11 |
| fenn | heath: ok nevermind | 15:11 |
| heath | wait, i read that as pdfparanoia | 15:11 |
| heath | pdfminer is in the requirements.txt | 15:11 |
| fenn | yes but you have to install it with pip | 15:11 |
| heath | yeah, this is frustrating | 15:11 |
| kanzure | setup.py should be installing all requirements | 15:12 |
| heath | pip should read the requirements of required modules and install them | 15:12 |
| kanzure | pip -r reads requirement files, otherwise iirc it does not | 15:12 |
| heath | what's happening: pip install -r reqs.txt ..finds pdfparanoia.. starts to install pdfparanoia but it fails because it doesn't have pdfminer though pdfminder is in the requirements file of pdfparanoia | 15:13 |
| fenn | .title http://youtu.be/2ohrpq6kfwg | 15:13 |
| yoleaux | Laser bubble in PDMS micro channel - YouTube | 15:14 |
| heath | and i guess it's been so long that i just don't know, but i assumed pip would grab pdfminer | 15:14 |
| kanzure | pdfparanoia's setup.py should grab pdfminer | 15:14 |
| kanzure | if it doesn't then that's a pdfparanoia bug | 15:14 |
| nmz787 | paperbot should have been able to get this one http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Lensfree_microscopy_on_a_cellphone.pdf | 15:14 |
| chris_99 | fenn, wow that's cool, so the laser causes it to heat and burst? | 15:14 |
| kanzure | setup.py should specify pdfminer in install_requires, rather | 15:14 |
| kanzure | chris_99: same principle as laser ablation for transfection | 15:15 |
| fenn | chris_99: yeah and you can use a pretty low power laser since the channels are so small | 15:15 |
| chris_99 | cool | 15:15 |
| fenn | like a cd-rom laser | 15:15 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Whole%20Blood%20Pumped%20by%20Laser%20Driven%20Micropump.pdf | 15:15 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/Diode%20laser%20generated%20ultrasound%20for%20human%20blood%20cell%20lysis.pdf | 15:15 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/Non-contact%20Mesoscale%20Manipulation%20Using%20Laser%20Induced%20Convection%20Flows%20-%20480%20nm%20(infrared)%20laser.pdf | 15:15 |
| nmz787 | and apparently this one too http://diyhpl.us/~nmz787/pdf/Cost-effective_and_rapid_blood_analysis_on_a_cell-phone.pdf | 15:15 |
| kanzure | http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/microfluidics/PCR%20-%20Nanodroplet%20real-time%20PCR%20system%20with%20laser%20assisted%20heating.pdf | 15:15 |
| heath | whatever, i'll manually install | 15:15 |
| kanzure | nmz787: stop complaining and go fix paperbot | 15:15 |
| kanzure | heath: pdfparanoia is worth fixing | 15:16 |
| nmz787_i | kanzure: no time these days | 15:16 |
| heath | we can throw up a paperbot-infrastructure later | 15:16 |
| kanzure | huh? | 15:16 |
| kanzure | that's complicating things too much | 15:16 |
| heath | okey doke | 15:17 |
| fenn | a simple "how to install" in the readme ought to suffice | 15:17 |
| nmz787_i | that would be nice | 15:17 |
| kanzure | "python setup.py install" | 15:17 |
| kanzure | done. | 15:17 |
| fenn | i don't see any setup.py | 15:18 |
| kanzure | oh interesting | 15:18 |
| kanzure | https://github.com/kanzure/paperbot/issues/37 | 15:19 |
| heath | fenn: for which module? | 15:19 |
| fenn | i was expecting something like "pip install pdfminer pdfparanoia ; python -c'import paperbot'" | 15:19 |
| fenn | i don't know what the hell requirements.txt is | 15:19 |
| heath | there's a setup.py for pdfparanoia and pdfminer | 15:20 |
| kanzure | requirements.txt is a friendly way of listing python dependencies so that you don't have to list them out like an asshole in a readme file | 15:20 |
| heath | 8there isn't a setup.py for paperbot | 15:20 |
| kanzure | usually requirements.txt is useful for setting up virtualenvs and packaging | 15:20 |
| kanzure | also, some people choose to dump lines from requirements.txt into the install_requires variable they pass into setup() in setup.py | 15:21 |
| fenn | is this some standard format or just a list of things for someone to look at? | 15:21 |
| kanzure | requirements.txt is by convention something that follows a format that pip is good at parsing | 15:21 |
| kanzure | there are lines that are incompatible with install-requires like comments and "-e git+https://", which need to not be included in install_requires (or rather, alternatives need to be available for install_requires, since they were dependencies and such) | 15:22 |
| kanzure | *with install_requires | 15:22 |
| * heath destroys resets his virtualenv to figure out what went wrong earlier | 15:22 | |
| heath | one of those verbs | 15:22 |
| kanzure | pretty sure the problem was pdfparanoia | 15:22 |
| nmz787_i | do you people really use so many libraries that you run into version clashes that force you to use virtualenvs? | 15:23 |
| heath | nmz787_i: yes | 15:23 |
| heath | pretty much every developer | 15:23 |
| nmz787_i | why not just add to your sys.path in some project-specific file? | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | which you import | 15:24 |
| heath | sounds too much like nixos | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | huh | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | weird | 15:24 |
| nmz787_i | guess your projects are not consistent enough? | 15:25 |
| heath | i'm kidding, nixos does a nice job of sandboxing dependencies so that you don't have to install them more than once | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | (thought nixos was some regional jargon) | 15:25 |
| nmz787_i | like saying 'voodoo' | 15:25 |
| heath | it's a linux distro | 15:25 |
| heath | i don't think that because i use ubuntu | 15:26 |
| heath | think +i do that because.. | 15:26 |
| fenn | sandboxing and isolation carried out to its ultimate extreme conclusion: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html | 15:27 |
| heath | nmz787_i: you've ran into dependency hell surely? | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | not with python | 15:28 |
| nmz787_i | there was something that had a conflicting six version, so I just did what I said earlier | 15:28 |
| kanzure | virtualenv isn't about version clashes | 15:32 |
| kanzure | it may help in that situation but that's not the primary reason to use a virtualenv | 15:32 |
| fenn | what's the primary reason then? | 15:34 |
| kanzure | isolation | 15:36 |
| fenn | can you elaborate? | 15:36 |
| kanzure | you don't want to pollute global site-packages | 15:37 |
| kanzure | especially with development code | 15:37 |
| kanzure | and "pip freeze" totally sucks when you're not using a virtualenv | 15:37 |
| kanzure | (although arguably you shouldn't use pip freeze anyway) | 15:37 |
| fenn | yeah that's dumb | 15:38 |
| fenn | if you can't keep track of what libraries you're using, you're using too many libraries | 15:38 |
| fenn | i guess the primary value is protection against bitrot | 15:41 |
| fenn | "what if you want to install an application and leave it be?" | 15:42 |
| kanzure | "reasons why you installed this package: haha good luck" | 15:45 |
| fenn | i mean in the thing you're developing, not why you installed some package | 15:45 |
| fenn | it should be simple enough: grep import src/ -R | 15:46 |
| fenn | | sort | uniq or sumfin | 15:46 |
| fenn | maybe i am hopelessly naive and idealistic, and "real world" applications use a zillion dependencies | 15:47 |
| fenn | but fuck them | 15:47 |
| kanzure | grep/sort/uniq is wrong strategy all ukraine programmer soldier trained to use http://furius.ca/snakefood/ from birth | 15:47 |
| nmz787_i | wow http://furius.ca/snakefood/doc/examples/django.pdf | 15:48 |
| fenn | not surprised | 15:49 |
| kanzure | hey that's not many | 15:49 |
| fenn | sometimes those graphs can make it look more complex than it really is | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | it could be that their graphing algorithm sucks and it just looks horrendous | 15:50 |
| kanzure | yes i don't think a graph is appropriate for this problem | 15:50 |
| kanzure | in python land your dependencies are very often trees, except when there are common tool libraries that are used everywhere | 15:50 |
| nmz787_i | that whole maximum planar graph thing | 15:50 |
| fenn | minimum spanning tree | 15:50 |
| fenn | or just any ol' tree | 15:51 |
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| kanzure | http://forum.antichat.ru/ | 16:39 |
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| kanzure | 18:22 < op_null> for the hell of it I wanted to work out if it was possible for a boutique Bitcoin miner using only vacuum tube logic. surprisingly hard to get running information about 60s computer technology. no matter how you put in the numbers, the cost seems to be astronomical. | 18:23 |
| kanzure | er, there were mos transistors in the 60s | 18:24 |
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| JayDugger | Hmm...did you look at using only 1960s era hardware, or did you also limit consideration to period software? | 19:12 |
| JayDugger | And have you founded the Society for Computing Anachronism? | 19:12 |
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| kanzure | i was quoting someone else, mind you | 19:13 |
| JayDugger | Duly noted. | 19:22 |
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| nmz787_i | this is very interesting indeed: http://web.mit.edu/vmd_v1.9.1/namd-tutorial-unix.pdf | 20:37 |
| nmz787_i | "X-ray crystallography methods utilize the optical rule that electromagnetic radiation will interact most strongly with matter the dimensions of which are close to the wavelength of that radiation. X-rays are diffracted by the electron clouds in molecules, since both the wavelength of the X-rays and the diameter of the cloud are on the order of Angstroms. The diffraction patterns formed when a group of molecules is arranged in a | 20:37 |
| nmz787_i | regular, crystalline array, may be used to reconstruct a 3-D image of the molecule. Hydrogen atoms, however, are not typically detected by X-ray crystallography since their sizes are too small to interact with the radiation and since they contain only a single electron. The best X-ray crystallography resolutions currently available are around 0.9˚A." | 20:37 |
| nmz787_i | very nice and succint | 20:37 |
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