| --- Log opened Tue Dec 29 00:00:50 2015 | ||
| -!- andares [~andares@2607:fb90:812c:2f82:8de0:52b2:5cff:85c5] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:02 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@2607:fb90:812c:2f82:8de0:52b2:5cff:85c5] has quit [Changing host] | 00:02 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 00:02 | |
| -!- iDavid [jinx@joe.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 01:04 | |
| -!- iDavid [jinx@joe.cz] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:05 | |
| -!- technologiclee [~lee@58.60.2.91] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 01:43 | |
| -!- jenelizabeth_ [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 03:01 | |
| -!- jenelizabeth_ [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:03 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 03:28 | |
| -!- rsa [rsa@228.ip-176-31-189.eu] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:30 | |
| -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 03:38 | |
| -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qtjxbgpuecoiohju] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 04:17 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:19 | |
| -!- Josh|NH4H [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 04:19 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:909f:3320:82ee:560] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 04:21 | |
| -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcdtdkntwjvaitfo] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 04:53 | |
| -!- technologiclee [~lee@58.60.2.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 05:04 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:10 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-98-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:15 | |
| -!- maaku [~quassel@botbot.xen.prgmr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:32 | |
| -!- maaku is now known as Guest87480 | 05:32 | |
| -!- Guest87480 is now known as maaku | 05:33 | |
| kanzure | "yo! something is up with http://link.springer.com/ all materials >10 years old are free for downloading" | 05:34 |
|---|---|---|
| kanzure | 308 springer links in the logs | 05:35 |
| kanzure | how many of these are old enough? | 05:35 |
| -!- xentrac [~kragen@adjuvant.canonical.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 05:38 | |
| -!- xentrac [~kragen@adjuvant.canonical.org] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:55 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 05:58 | |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-atyphdlulbbtuhld] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:03 | |
| maaku | kanzure: i believe tulip on #bitcoin-wizards is mass harvesting those files | 06:06 |
| maaku | might want to coordinate with him if you want something more then CS books | 06:06 |
| maaku | (i asked him to get physical science and engineering books, but not sure if he'll follow up on that) | 06:07 |
| pompolic | does anyone know if this is a limited-time offer? | 06:20 |
| pompolic | having all these books as open access, i mean | 06:20 |
| Aurelius_Work | pompolic : I'll be on vacation for twelve days starting thursday evening--we should do some WF | 06:21 |
| -!- jenelizabeth_ [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 06:24 | |
| FAMAS | this user recommends the utilization of the paq and bulkzip algorithms for file archiving at maximum possible compression and recommends them being utilized to store the channel logs | 06:25 |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:48 | |
| -!- playfuldinosaur [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:50 | |
| -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 06:51 | |
| playfuldinosaur | Whats your favorite biohacking book? | 06:52 |
| -!- balrog [~balrog@unaffiliated/balrog] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 06:52 | |
| -!- FAMAS [~FAMAS@unaffiliated/famas] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 07:01 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-98-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 07:10 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-98-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:13 | |
| kanzure | here are some things http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/springerwat/ | 07:27 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:30 | |
| -!- playfuldinosaur [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 07:31 | |
| -!- playfuldinosaur [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:31 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:33 | |
| kanzure | can one of you baboons let me know when you have a copy of that? i don't want to leave those up. | 07:33 |
| docl | kanzure: methinks you need to ban that spammer who keeps going on about compressing the channel logs. | 07:34 |
| playfuldinosaur | I'll download them later | 07:36 |
| playfuldinosaur | Some at least | 07:36 |
| playfuldinosaur | Very interesting thanks for sharing | 07:36 |
| eudoxia | i'm downloading some know because why not | 07:37 |
| eudoxia | now* god dammit | 07:37 |
| kanzure | i thought you are on dial up | 07:37 |
| eudoxia | no | 07:37 |
| playfuldinosaur | Im at work :/ | 07:39 |
| -!- bjonnh [~Bjonnh@unaffiliated/bjonnh] has left ##hplusroadmap ["WeeChat 1.0.1"] | 07:39 | |
| playfuldinosaur | On my phone | 07:39 |
| eudoxia | i'm keeping the brain stem surgery textbook just in case | 07:42 |
| playfuldinosaur | Anyone have any more directories or fav books? | 07:43 |
| playfuldinosaur | This is cool | 07:43 |
| kanzure | i'm not sure how you would be aware of this, but my message was not a reply to your request | 07:47 |
| kanzure | see http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-29.log just before you arrived | 07:47 |
| -!- |node [uid125132@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sdhgywvuaszevwpr] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:48 | |
| AdrianG | so we have a christmas present from springer? | 07:48 |
| kanzure | essentially | 07:49 |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtxqwmghcpgpxhzs] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:51 | |
| -!- playfuldinosaur [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 07:53 | |
| -!- playfuldinosaur [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:53 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@li669-27.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 07:54 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 07:56 | |
| playfuldinosaur | Nice | 07:59 |
| playfuldinosaur | Well my question still stand lol | 07:59 |
| -!- CheckDavid [uid14990@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-atyphdlulbbtuhld] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 08:09 | |
| kanzure | hmm i wonder if ranchers are already using mutagenesis for their breeding programs. my guess is probably no. | 08:10 |
| kanzure | (one of the books was about "statistical methods for genetic improvement of livestock") | 08:11 |
| kanzure | there is very little about dna sequencing in this book, heh | 08:11 |
| kanzure | ah they do eventually mention embryo transfer, self-fertilization, chimeras, polyploidy, gene transfer. | 08:13 |
| -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r167-57-128-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 08:15 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-98-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] | 08:16 | |
| playfuldinosaur | What about books and directories? | 08:28 |
| maaku | playfuldinosaur: read the logs | 08:32 |
| playfuldinosaur | Lol yes i forgot about that | 08:33 |
| -!- eudoxia_ [~eudoxia@r167-57-128-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 08:44 | |
| kanzure | unfortunately "methods in molecular biology" is not available in this glitch >:( | 09:26 |
| kanzure | which is practically the only useful book series they have. hmph. | 09:29 |
| kanzure | http://www.springer.com/series/7651 | 09:31 |
| kanzure | or these http://www.springerprotocols.com/cdp/view/Series?issn=0893-2336&sortBy=VOLUME&submit=Go | 09:34 |
| -!- gentoognuhurd [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 09:35 | |
| atomical | |node: why do you keep messaging me? | 09:45 |
| atomical | is |node a bot? | 09:45 |
| |node | Hi! | 09:46 |
| atomical | hi | 09:47 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 09:48 | |
| kanzure | ooh "Modern Techniques in Neuroscience Research" | 09:52 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:53 | |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-128-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 09:57 | |
| -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 10:00 | |
| kanzure | ooh, "Organtransplantation in Rats and Mice - Microsurgical Techniques and Immunological Principles" | 10:01 |
| -!- Houshalter [~Houshalte@oh-71-50-56-224.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] | 10:03 | |
| -!- JayDugger [~jwdugger@108.19.186.58] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:17 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 10:31 | |
| playfuldinosaur | Guys question, if you talked to a noob biohackee what projects do you recommend him/her to start with? | 11:19 |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:29 | |
| xentrac | a noob biohackee? Like somebody who's a guinea pig in somebody else's CRISPR experiment for the first time? I'd recommend starting with calling the police | 11:29 |
| kanzure | no it's like a hackie sac. | 11:31 |
| playfuldinosaur | Lolol | 11:33 |
| playfuldinosaur | Def like a hackie sack | 11:33 |
| -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r167-57-128-13.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 11:36 | |
| -!- fleshtheworld [~fleshthew@108-240-244-194.lightspeed.frsnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 11:44 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.248.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 11:48 | |
| -!- jenelizabeth [~jenelizab@cpc76802-brmb10-2-0-cust399.1-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:07 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:d579:8b85:6bfb:4f9c] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:12 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@cpe-158-222-160-123.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 12:18 | |
| playfuldinosaur | So no? | 12:29 |
| kanzure | your first project should be acquiring lab skills- go to a community college molecular biology lab class, cut the lab manual book into small chunks and then proceed to feast. | 12:31 |
| playfuldinosaur | Did that part | 12:41 |
| playfuldinosaur | Used to work for a lab growing toxoplasma and HFF cells | 12:42 |
| kanzure | can toxo secrete shit while in its dormant phase? | 12:42 |
| kanzure | i want to select toxo strains for positive nootropic effect | 12:43 |
| playfuldinosaur | I dont know for sure but my guess is no. My lab was trying to focus on inserting dna so we could force it out of its dormant stage so we could target it with drugs. My guess is that if drugs cant reach it while its dormant there is little to no cell signals coming in and out of it | 12:45 |
| playfuldinosaur | What nootropic effect? | 12:47 |
| kanzure | any measurable nootropic effect | 12:48 |
| playfuldinosaur | Toxo is small enough to fit in a human cell so you could potentially hack it so it works as a pseudo organelle | 12:48 |
| kanzure | e.g. existing brain lesions caused by toxo sometimes cause cognitive augmentation or benefit | 12:48 |
| playfuldinosaur | I wasnt aware of that | 12:48 |
| kanzure | (and sometimes defecit... but those strains should not be selected) | 12:48 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: did you download everything you wanted from springer yet | 12:48 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: years ago | 12:49 |
| kanzure | i would like "methods in molecular biology" but that's not available during this glitch | 12:49 |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:49 | |
| AdrianG | kanzure: i thought you had access before? | 12:50 |
| AdrianG | recall asking you for some paper some time ago | 12:50 |
| kanzure | there's new stuff in "methods in molecular biology" that i don't have | 12:50 |
| playfuldinosaur | I think its easier to do a project with gut bacteria than eith toxo because of the possibility of getting toxoplasmosis | 12:51 |
| playfuldinosaur | Or with some other organism for that matter | 12:51 |
| playfuldinosaur | Im interested now, kanzure have you done any home diy cell bio experiments? | 12:51 |
| AdrianG | toxo studies are going to be really difficult to get approved by ethics boards. | 12:52 |
| kanzure | AdrianG: why are you such a troll | 12:52 |
| playfuldinosaur | Yeah also funding is an issue and the reason i no longer work there haha | 12:52 |
| -!- CaptHindsight [~2020@unaffiliated/capthindsight] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 12:52 | |
| kanzure | toxo stuff does get past the ethics review boards, duh | 12:53 |
| kanzure | and who cares if it didn't? ethics review boards have been known to mistakes. i don't care. | 12:53 |
| kanzure | *to make mistakes | 12:53 |
| kanzure | playfuldinosaur: i'm really unsure why you are asking about newbie projects if you have actual lab experience. | 12:54 |
| CaptHindsight | does Josiah from http://www.the-odin.com/ spend any time in here? | 12:55 |
| playfuldinosaur | Haha well i want to learn about diy projects. Im a noob to those | 12:55 |
| kanzure | CaptHindsight: he spends more time on https://groups.google.com/group/diybio | 12:56 |
| CaptHindsight | thanks | 12:56 |
| kanzure | yup | 12:56 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: how am i trolling? infecting humans with toxo isnt going to pass oversight | 12:56 |
| playfuldinosaur | Woah i didnt know that was a thing the google groups | 12:56 |
| kanzure | 1) bringing up ethics review boards is totally irrelevant to any of the conversation | 12:56 |
| kanzure | 2) nobody said anything about humans. why are you doing this to me? just stop. | 12:57 |
| AdrianG | i was responding to playfuldinosaur about gut bacteria vs toxo | 12:57 |
| AdrianG | thats why | 12:57 |
| kanzure | 3) it's wrong to assume that ethics review boards have a zero failure rate, and it's wrong to assume they don't have false positives or false negatives. | 12:57 |
| kanzure | gut bacteria does not mean human-only | 12:58 |
| kanzure | sigh | 12:58 |
| playfuldinosaur | Gut bacteria has smaller plasmid too | 12:59 |
| playfuldinosaur | Easier | 12:59 |
| playfuldinosaur | Less ethics more science :) | 12:59 |
| playfuldinosaur | Kanzure that should be our motto "less ethics more science" | 13:00 |
| kanzure | playfuldinosaur: if you are unfamiliar with https://groups.google.com/group/diybio then perhaps take a look at http://diyhpl.us/wiki/diybio/faq | 13:00 |
| AdrianG | i really should be more verbose, otherwise i am always presumed to be trolling. | 13:00 |
| -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:01 | |
| playfuldinosaur | Ok i gotta really look at that wiki there is literally so much in theee | 13:01 |
| AdrianG | human-only, why? the only primates we can test on these days are humans. translating neuro research from mice/rats to higher primates is a lot more prone to failures. | 13:01 |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@172.56.13.120] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:02 | |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@172.56.13.120] has quit [Client Quit] | 13:02 | |
| kanzure | because validation of directed evolution for nootropics can be achieved in non-primates; brain testing works for non-primates. | 13:03 |
| kanzure | validation and refutation is cheaper to achieve at that level compared to being wrong and wasting time infecting yourself or others | 13:03 |
| AdrianG | directed evolution? I thought you were going to use toxo as more precise drugs, something like optogenetics. | 13:05 |
| kanzure | i said selection | 13:05 |
| AdrianG | i guess for directed evolution, that would require validation first. | 13:05 |
| kanzure | i think selection and directed evolution are very similar | 13:05 |
| AdrianG | since we dont already have it shown it works otherwise | 13:05 |
| kanzure | optogenetics also requires validation -_- | 13:05 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@erx94.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 13:05 | |
| kanzure | directed evolution has been shown to work for trivial problems | 13:05 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: for selection/evolution - maybe | 13:05 |
| AdrianG | we have shown it works in principle. | 13:05 |
| kanzure | we have shown it works in practice for trivial problems. | 13:06 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 13:06 | |
| kanzure | where trivial is some combination of evolutionary landscape, protein sequence/fold possibility space, mutation rate, and good/functional measurement for selection | 13:06 |
| AdrianG | we will end up doing species specific work at some point, sooner or later | 13:06 |
| playfuldinosaur | Or at least accurate (ish) computer simulations of them | 13:10 |
| xentrac | by "directed evolution" do you mean things like toy poodles, bloodhounds, and pit bulls? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | well the topic was toxoplasmosis :-) so... sort of? | 13:12 |
| kanzure | i guess poodles are sorta infectious | 13:12 |
| xentrac | oh, you mean directed evolution of toxoplasmosis has been shown to work? | 13:13 |
| xentrac | I hadn't heard that | 13:13 |
| kanzure | directed evolution of all kinds of microbes has been shown to work | 13:13 |
| kanzure | ... for trivial problems. | 13:13 |
| xentrac | I see --- I didn't know you were talking about all kinds of microbes. | 13:14 |
| kanzure | (impossible behavior is still impossible, of course. ubt if there's something possible, and nearby in the evolutionary landscape, and you supply enough mutation, and you have good selection mechanisms and measurements, you can reach those mutations and alleles) | 13:14 |
| kanzure | *but if there's | 13:14 |
| kanzure | oh and also if you are willing to bruteforce it, and the total time until bruteforcing success happens to be small, and it's achievable by bruteforcing... that's another way. | 13:15 |
| -!- rsa [rsa@228.ip-176-31-189.eu] has quit [Disconnected by services] | 13:16 | |
| playfuldinosaur | I dont disagree with you kanzure, but specifically for toxo is harder to acheive directed evolution because of the amount of trasncription factors that toxo has. Other micros have way less. | 13:16 |
| kanzure | are the transcription factors known? if we get cheap dna synthesis ( http://diyhpl.us/wiki/dna/synthesis/notes/ ) it would probably be easier to just remove as many transcription factors as possible, until the thing barely works. | 13:17 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: what are the current costs to engineer a bacteria to spec? | 13:18 |
| AdrianG | say i want to insert a certain sequence and make it produce a certain polymer or whatever | 13:18 |
| AdrianG | is this at garaga-diy costs yet? | 13:18 |
| AdrianG | say we already know what genetic sequence needs to be inserted. | 13:19 |
| kanzure | if you are willing to outsource dna synthesis, and you are willing to use something like plasmid insertion (transformation), then yes that can be done fairly cheap | 13:20 |
| kanzure | or, if not outsourcing dna synthesis, then at least outsourcing your acquisition of the plasmid | 13:20 |
| playfuldinosaur | The number would be close to 80 and we are still discovering more. Look at the AP2 proteins they are the best ones to look at because they are also plant transcription factors that dont appear in humans | 13:21 |
| playfuldinosaur | So lets say you want to meddle with toxo while its inside a host you can tackle the AP2 because animals wont have them. So in a way its the safest bet. | 13:24 |
| playfuldinosaur | Im gonna disconnect and go back with my verified nick idk why im using this one. Ill be cautious | 13:33 |
| -!- playfuldinosaur [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Bye] | 13:34 | |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:35 | |
| -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymvyboqnhyqleuix] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:39 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 13:39 | |
| CaptHindsight | AdrianG: how long are your polymers? | 13:43 |
| CaptHindsight | polymers/sequences | 13:44 |
| AdrianG | CaptHindsight: it was just an example | 13:45 |
| AdrianG | could be monomers. | 13:45 |
| AdrianG | idk, say i want to manufacture glycerin on the cheap | 13:46 |
| kanzure | "Antibody myostatin blockade has just completed phase 2 clinical trials" | 13:46 |
| kanzure | was that recent | 13:46 |
| AdrianG | phase 2? | 13:46 |
| CaptHindsight | AdrianG: depends on what you want to synthesize, your examples are from one extreme to the other | 13:49 |
| AdrianG | CaptHindsight: i was interested in costs of custom bacteria, thats all | 13:49 |
| AdrianG | polymers probably would be a lot more difficult. | 13:49 |
| CaptHindsight | https://azcobiotech.com/reagents-for-oligonucleotide-synthesis/liquid-reagents/ is down right now | 13:50 |
| CaptHindsight | but the reagents were ~$1k/g | 13:50 |
| AdrianG | you dont need a gram, as far as i know | 13:50 |
| kanzure | yes but most people are just going to order a plasmid from someone else, or whatever | 13:51 |
| AdrianG | this stuff is done in micrograms if not lower | 13:51 |
| CaptHindsight | so if you use a femtoliter printhead it's not much | 13:51 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: sure. but at some point, it might become table-top. | 13:51 |
| AdrianG | i think a widely distributed development effort will require much lower costs. | 13:51 |
| kanzure | yes but your question wasn't about fucking tabletop, it was about current costs >:( | 13:51 |
| kanzure | that's shifting the goal posts on me, man | 13:51 |
| AdrianG | kanzure: garage-diy | 13:51 |
| kanzure | that does not mean tabletop | 13:52 |
| AdrianG | it doesnt, because i know tabletop at the moment is unachievable | 13:52 |
| AdrianG | im not shifting anything. i just asked an open ended question, geez. | 13:52 |
| CaptHindsight | they advertise ~25 cents per base pair, but I hear that it's not the actual cost | 13:55 |
| CaptHindsight | http://www.genscript.com/gene_synthesis.html | 13:56 |
| AdrianG | heh. | 13:57 |
| AdrianG | same price as biobasic. | 13:57 |
| AdrianG | https://store.biobasic.com/gene-synthesis/ | 13:57 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…] | 13:59 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:01 | |
| CaptHindsight | their sweet spot seems to be 500-3000bp http://www.generalbiosystems.com/index.php?c=content&a=show&id=28541&gclid=CI_hs5WKgsoCFQEIaQodNSYKoA | 14:08 |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [~AndChat30@static-100-38-178-29.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] | 14:16 | |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:20 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:d579:8b85:6bfb:4f9c] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 14:21 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 14:23 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:23 | |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 14:25 | |
| -!- jdqx_ [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:6524:367d:b2ff:aaef] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:29 | |
| -!- jdqx [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:f8bb:90c1:43e7:3b73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 14:30 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@2607:fb90:812c:2f82:8de0:52b2:5cff:85c5] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:31 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@2607:fb90:812c:2f82:8de0:52b2:5cff:85c5] has quit [Changing host] | 14:31 | |
| -!- andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:31 | |
| FourFire | "less ethics; more science" is now my oneliner for passively agressively blowing off people trolling me about transhumanism | 14:32 |
| kanzure | they aren't actually interested in whether it's ethical | 14:32 |
| kanzure | wtf is so ethical about people living in miserable aged bodies, about death and destruction and despair. fuck the ethicists. | 14:33 |
| FourFire | ^ | 14:35 |
| CaptHindsight | are they the same people that complain about for-profit health care? | 14:36 |
| kanzure | good question. maybe? | 14:37 |
| xentrac | FourFire: I understand why you might be tempted to do that, because it will make your life more comfortable, but it will damage the cause | 14:37 |
| kanzure | there are good ethical reasons to do transhumanist thngs. but it's wrong to force everyone to be constantly explaining why. | 14:38 |
| xentrac | sure | 14:38 |
| xentrac | you could respond with violence | 14:38 |
| kanzure | that's an idea | 14:39 |
| xentrac | "but isn't that unethical?" *punch* | 14:39 |
| xentrac | but responding by claiming merely not to claim about ethics will give your opponents ammunition and will undermine any later ethical claims you might try to make | 14:40 |
| xentrac | I mean obviously just responding with violence is bad too, but not as bad | 14:40 |
| kanzure | people who complain about ethics are just testing your social skills | 14:40 |
| xentrac | some of them, but not others | 14:41 |
| xentrac | but the point mostly isn't to convince the people who are complaining | 14:41 |
| kanzure | recognizing valid ethical reasoning is a good social skill to have. | 14:41 |
| xentrac | it's to convince, or avoid deconvincing, whoever else is present or might hear the story repeated later | 14:41 |
| kanzure | were you around when we had that person who wanted to convert the galaxy into computronium | 14:42 |
| xentrac | no | 14:42 |
| xentrac | why only the galaxy? | 14:42 |
| kanzure | he was impatient :-) | 14:43 |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:d579:8b85:6bfb:4f9c] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 14:53 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 14:59 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abe@c-98-216-104-129.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] | 15:01 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:04 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:9585:2457:638b:57b3] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 15:14 | |
| -!- abetusk is now known as Guest55515 | 15:15 | |
| -!- Guest55515 is now known as abetusk | 15:34 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 15:35 | |
| -!- chris_99 [~chris_99@unaffiliated/chris-99/x-3062929] has quit [Quit: Leaving] | 15:43 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 15:46 | |
| -!- Darius [~quassel@207.251.103.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 15:51 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:10 | |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:35 | |
| atomical | reading about keto is getting a bit tiring | 16:36 |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@mbc5036d0.tmodns.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:39 | |
| AdrianG | why? | 16:40 |
| -!- atomica__ [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 16:43 | |
| atomica__ | because these fat fucks are going to die of heart disease | 16:43 |
| xentrac | I finally found the "99-line topology optimization code" article: http://www.topopt.dtu.dk/files/matlab.pdf | 16:43 |
| -!- atomical [~atomical@209.153.22.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 16:43 | |
| xentrac | 1999: "other approaches based on genetic algorithms or other semi-random approaches require thousands of function evaluations even for small number of elements and must be considered impractical" | 16:46 |
| kanzure | i don't think that was true in 1999! what about gpu stuff. | 16:46 |
| -!- atomical_ [~atomical@mbc5036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 16:47 | |
| xentrac | gpu stuff was not practical in 1999 | 16:48 |
| xentrac | it's certainly true that gradient descent will converge to an answer in a lot less computation than genetic algorithms! | 16:48 |
| kanzure | why was gpu stuff not practical in 1999? surely you could smash triangles into each other or something? | 16:49 |
| xentrac | GPUs were still fairly fixed-function, and even for the things that you *could* compute on them, it was really slow to get the data anywhere besides on your monitor | 16:51 |
| xentrac | they were optimized for moving data from the computer into the graphics card, not vice versa | 16:53 |
| xentrac | actually the time to move data between memories is still a problem for GPGPU today | 16:53 |
| xentrac | but not the overwhelming problem it was then | 16:53 |
| -!- abetusk [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:9585:2457:638b:57b3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 16:59 | |
| -!- abetusk [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:9585:2457:638b:57b3] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:11 | |
| -!- abetusk is now known as Guest77500 | 17:11 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:17 | |
| -!- Guest77500 [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:9585:2457:638b:57b3] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 17:24 | |
| -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] | 17:27 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@2601:681:500:165a:d579:8b85:6bfb:4f9c] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 17:34 | |
| -!- Guest77500 [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:94a8:59d2:b852:23e5] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:37 | |
| -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 17:40 | |
| pasky | geforce 256 was the first commodity gpu that'd even let you smash triangles | 17:51 |
| kanzure | wasn't it the pythagorean theorem that said that all problems can be decomposed into a set of triangle collision conjectures? :p | 17:53 |
| pasky | then again, according to wikipedia, geforce 256 was only faster at this than the lowest-end cpus | 17:57 |
| xentrac | "let's use GPUs" and "let's use Java" were two of the obviously terrible ideas I was seeing on the Beowulf mailing list occasionally around that time | 18:04 |
| xentrac | fast forward to 2004 and they were no longer terrible | 18:05 |
| -!- jdqx_ [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:6524:367d:b2ff:aaef] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] | 18:09 | |
| xentrac | http://www.kurzweilai.net/superintelligence-fears-promises-and-potentials covers a lot of the current debate about ethics and science | 18:12 |
| xentrac | Goertzel thinks Yudkowsky and Bostrom are overstating AGI risk | 18:12 |
| -!- jdqx [~jdqx@2602:306:cc94:1950:1c7a:16b4:8b28:9bc5] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:12 | |
| xentrac | touching on diybio and MNT | 18:13 |
| kanzure | xentrac: goertzel's long standing opinion is http://multiverseaccordingtoben.blogspot.com/2010/10/singularity-institutes-scary-idea-and.html | 18:13 |
| kanzure | ah, he links to that. efficient. | 18:15 |
| kanzure | "Arguably, such an “AGI Nanny” could manage the transition to and through a Singularity much better than human beings or purely human institutions. An AGI Nanny would in a sense be a kind of “police state” — but if policing of dangerous technologies were combined with compassionate ethics, abolition of human-scale material scarcity, and coherent rational pursuit of a positive Singularity, one would have something very different ... | 18:16 |
| kanzure | ... from the “police states” that have existed in human history." | 18:16 |
| kanzure | this is still objectionable. | 18:16 |
| kanzure | "Bostrom and Yudkowsky, from what I have seen, are ethical and peaceable individuals who genuinely want the best for all mankind, as well as wanting to see amazing transhuman possibilities come about in a safe and well-managed way. However, their tendency toward elitism does not strike everyone as benign in its potential consequences." | 18:16 |
| kanzure | accusing them of elitism is a terrible attempt at refuting their arguments -_- | 18:16 |
| kanzure | nice to see precautionary vs proactionary principle mentioned... | 18:17 |
| xentrac | it seems very much in agreement | 18:17 |
| xentrac | I haven't reached the "AGI Nanny" quote | 18:18 |
| kanzure | there's a lot of fluff in this article, basically goertzel's usual nonsense | 18:18 |
| kanzure | which is entirely skippable | 18:18 |
| xentrac | 'coherent rational pursuit of a positive Singularity' is a reasonably good description of the Great Leap Forward and also of Marxism in general | 18:18 |
| xentrac | but they still had police states | 18:19 |
| kanzure | i mentioned a refutation of police states and ai nanny moratoriums and such earlier this month | 18:19 |
| kanzure | http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-12.log | 18:19 |
| xentrac | how can you refute a policy proposal? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | by showing the policy is nonsense, bad, or misinformed, or that it doesn't achieve its goals, or that it is incapable of achieving its goals | 18:20 |
| kanzure | .... duh? | 18:20 |
| kanzure | i guess that's why maaku mentioned militias (in the same file) | 18:21 |
| xentrac | hmm, I think those would calculate as refutations for propositions that a policy was sensible, good, informed, or effective | 18:22 |
| xentrac | but not for the policy itself | 18:22 |
| kanzure | oh also there was some anti-yudkowsky stuff at 22:37 here http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-11.log | 18:22 |
| xentrac | I mean people might still support the policy for reasons other than its stated goals, for example | 18:24 |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 18:24 | |
| kanzure | example from another context plz? | 18:25 |
| xentrac | I don't think the PNAC folks believed there were nuclear weapons in Iraq; they had their own reasons for wanting to invade | 18:28 |
| xentrac | so persuading them that there were no nuclear weapons wouldn't persuade them not to invade | 18:28 |
| xentrac | you can get more meta still: often political delegates vote for policies they disagree with when they don't believe those policies have a chance of passing, in order to cheaply curry favor with the folks who support those policies | 18:32 |
| kanzure | btcdrak: wtf do you have a telepathic link to xentrac? | 18:32 |
| kanzure | i guess btcdrak's message came after xentrac's. weird. | 18:33 |
| * btcdrak grins | 18:34 | |
| xentrac | I have telepathic links with everyone | 18:36 |
| kanzure | he was asking about fbi excuses to invade iraq | 18:36 |
| kanzure | for WMD reasons | 18:36 |
| kanzure | basically a minure after your mention | 18:36 |
| kanzure | *minute | 18:37 |
| CautiousNarwhal | hi guys again | 18:50 |
| CautiousNarwhal | telepaths? | 18:50 |
| xentrac | I transmit my thoughts through electrical impulses to dozens, sometimes thousands of people around the world | 18:54 |
| xentrac | isn't that telepathy? | 18:54 |
| -!- jaboja64 [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 18:56 | |
| kanzure | xentrac: mind control over motion? that's impossible http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/lolwhat.txt (this was an email i received a few years ago) | 18:57 |
| kanzure | crispr/cas9 guide https://www.addgene.org/CRISPR/guide/ | 18:57 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:02 | |
| kanzure | "editas" is crispr startup, apparently. raised $43M. is going through FDA stuff at the moment. | 19:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.editasmedicine.com/ | 19:04 |
| kanzure | hahah the stock photos.... one of them is a stock photo of george church :-). | 19:04 |
| kanzure | http://www.editasmedicine.com/documents/Editas%20-%20Human%20Gene%20Editing%20Comment%20-%20Final.pdf | 19:05 |
| kanzure | http://www.editasmedicine.com/publications.php | 19:06 |
| -!- sandeepkr [~sandeepkr@111.235.64.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:11 | |
| -!- CautiousNarwhal [ad03d8c6@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.173.3.216.198] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] | 19:14 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-221-52-245.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 19:23 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] | 19:23 | |
| -!- drewbot [~cinch@ec2-54-235-10-196.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:23 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:37 | |
| -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ymvyboqnhyqleuix] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 19:37 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] | 19:40 | |
| -!- Guest77500 [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:94a8:59d2:b852:23e5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] | 19:46 | |
| -!- Guest77500 [~abe@2601:184:4002:2290:8dd7:41d7:c8ad:df47] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:56 | |
| -!- dcentral [~IGLC@206.251.40.170] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 19:57 | |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jtxqwmghcpgpxhzs] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 20:00 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] | 20:08 | |
| kanzure | .title http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=87189 | 20:11 |
| yoleaux | Seafloor Features Are Revealed by the Gravity Field : Image of the Day | 20:11 |
| kanzure | "Mountains and other seafloor features have a lot of mass, so they exert a gravitational pull on the water above and around them; essentially, seamounts pull more water toward their center of mass. This causes water to pile up in small but measurable bumps on the sea surface." | 20:13 |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:14 | |
| kanzure | "New global marine gravity model from CryoSat-2 and Jason-1 reveals buried tectonic structure" http://www.sciencemag.org/content/346/6205/65 | 20:14 |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:50 | |
| -!- justanotheruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] | 20:55 | |
| -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 20:55 | |
| -!- dfused [~dfused@2400:8901::f03c:91ff:fe67:eb38] has left ##hplusroadmap ["Leaving"] | 21:00 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] | 21:04 | |
| -!- Madplatypus [uid19957@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-whmiuocdmkoashnv] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:10 | |
| -!- Gurkenglas [Gurkenglas@dslb-188-103-077-131.188.103.pools.vodafone-ip.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] | 21:13 | |
| -!- ArturShaik [~ArturShai@195.114.248.161] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:15 | |
| -!- jaboja [~jaboja@esg214.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 21:22 | |
| -!- Guest77500 is now known as abetusk | 21:30 | |
| kanzure | .title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10810271 | 21:58 |
| yoleaux | All Springer Textbooks More Than 10 Years Old Available for Free Legal Download | Hacker News | 21:58 |
| FourFire | xentrac, fine, I'll maintain my current strategy of covertly converting bright people, while pretending to want to research "healthcare" to everyone else | 22:06 |
| maaku | came here to see goertzel's article discussed, was not disappointed | 22:18 |
| kanzure | i find your lack of faith disturbing | 22:20 |
| maaku | AGI is a bizarro world right now where the loudest voices are neo-fascist, and the only (relatively) sane voice is a bit of a cookoo hippy | 22:20 |
| kanzure | :-) | 22:20 |
| kanzure | yes it's unfortunate that there isn't a generally correct well-reasoned anti-eliezer anti-yudkowsky thing....... some of the fearmongering is just dumb (if you imagine infinitely powerful adversaries, yes it's okay to not imagine human survival). and the usual refutation ("BUT HE IS ARROGANT") is also stupid. | 22:22 |
| justanot1eruser | AGI is full of neo-fascists? | 22:46 |
| justanot1eruser | We are talking about AI right? Not something else? | 22:47 |
| -!- Act [uid89656@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lcdtdkntwjvaitfo] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] | 22:47 | |
| -!- justanot1eruser [~Justan@unaffiliated/justanotheruser] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] | 23:03 | |
| CaptHindsight | why all these narcissist cheese haters? jeez I can't wait until the 2020's | 23:18 |
| -!- PatrickRobotham [uid18270@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nzllzbzdppglgkgd] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:26 | |
| -!- Weno [4336aa9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.54.170.156] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:40 | |
| -!- Weno [4336aa9c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.54.170.156] has quit [Client Quit] | 23:40 | |
| -!- wrldpc1 [~ben@147.131.169.216.client.dyn.strong-sf94.as22781.net] has joined ##hplusroadmap | 23:47 | |
| --- Log closed Wed Dec 30 00:00:51 2015 | ||
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.0.dev0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!