| --- Log opened Fri Dec 04 00:00:43 2015 | ||
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| justanotheruser | I'm sure at some point someone wrote them | 00:11 |
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| Urchin | hi | 01:50 |
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| fenn | weird to see michael kan feature so prominently in this DIY optics article i linked to in 2008, before i had ever been to noisebridge: http://kmr.nada.kth.se/wiki/Main/PointFocus | 02:54 |
| fenn | is the world really that small? | 02:55 |
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| TMA | fenn: no, the world is large (try walking); the observation is "valid" though -- there are just few people around that are interesting -- because "interesting" is very narowly defined; combine that with several cognitive biases (such as almost never noticing when a coincidence fails to occur) and the world would begin to feel small | 04:05 |
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| pasky_ | oh my, I'd love to read that Metzger paper; but 24 pages in sans-serif? :( | 04:45 |
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| kanzure | "proprietary data formats kill kids with cancer" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10675275 | 05:22 |
| kanzure | FourFire: gradstudentbot is based on "shit graduate students say" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovEghdXC4tE and hplusroadmap lore | 05:23 |
| kanzure | pasky_: i'm curious, do you have trouble reading sans-serif english stuff? | 05:23 |
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| kanzure | http://makezine.com/2015/11/28/chip-vs-pi-zero/ | 05:28 |
| pasky_ | kanzure: I just find reading more than a page or two of sans-serif tedious in general, esp. on paper | 05:32 |
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| kanzure | "Space-time is doomed. What replaces it?" http://www.cornell.edu/video/nima-arkani-hamed-spacetime-is-doomed | 05:33 |
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| kanzure | scope of theoretical computer science w.r.t machine learning and complexity classes https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10676383 | 06:36 |
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| kanzure | that dude is claiming that accelerating expansion of the universe could be explained by dark energy, but also happens to be explained by non-zero energy density of vacuum | 06:45 |
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| chris_99 | http://www.symmetrymagazine.org/article/holometer-rules-out-first-theory-of-space-time-correlations | 07:42 |
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| kanzure | -wizards has practically pledged funds for building a dyson swarm http://gnusha.org/bitcoin-wizards/2015-12-04.log | 12:21 |
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| kanzure | what was the complaint about gfp gene therapy? something about the immune system iirc? | 12:34 |
| kanzure | but why not just use intercellular gfp only? then do tissue biopsy and look at cells under fluorescence microscopy etc. no reason to expect gfp blood. | 12:35 |
| kanzure | can't remember if the complaint was about gfp anywhere in the body | 12:35 |
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| atomical | Is Liz Parrish ripped yet? | 15:54 |
| kanzure | perhaps a better question is "has liz parrish realized the follies of her ways and decided on a better reporter method to determine whether gene therapy was successful?" instead? | 15:58 |
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| docl | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_process lacks the method that fenn described in http://gnusha.org/logs/2008-03-28.log of using a mass spectrometer to purify stuff. | 16:22 |
| docl | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_torch mentions plasma separation of elements. Of course fusion has nothing to do with it, it just got associated because fusion is (if it worked, would be) a high-temp power source. | 16:27 |
| docl | http://www.molecularassembler.com/KSRM/3.14.htm gives it a (somewhat dated) treatment in the context of a universal assembler / replicator. Which is of course what we are interested in it for. | 16:30 |
| FourFire | kanzure, I don't get why they didn't add some (experimentally harmless, but easily detectable) phenotype as well as the two fixer genes | 16:32 |
| kanzure | well one reason could be that they didn't know about visible phenotype stuff | 16:33 |
| FourFire | Like, I would enjoy having the opportunity to alter my skin melanin content, which will likely be one of the first tests I do on myself. | 16:33 |
| FourFire | How can they _Not Know_ about easily measureable phenotype stuff?? | 16:34 |
| FourFire | like, BTB is one. | 16:34 |
| FourFire | that's Bio 101 | 16:34 |
| kanzure | yeah i feel like even if they didn't know any good visible phenotype targets, that they should have at least mentioned why they excluded that from consideration | 16:35 |
| kanzure | and iirc they did not actually mention why they would exclude that | 16:35 |
| FourFire | should I send them an email? | 16:36 |
| kanzure | unfortunately this type of critiicsm is often perceived as criticism against diy gene therapy projects | 16:36 |
| kanzure | 16:28 < atomical> so is she going to get ripped now? | 16:37 |
| kanzure | 16:29 < kanzure> well, if she used a gfp reporter approach, she would be able to look at her blood (or something) to determine if gfp is being expressed. then she could make some reasonable guesses as to whether follistatin is being expressed. | 16:37 |
| kanzure | 16:29 < kanzure> anyway, i think she could have picked better targets | 16:37 |
| kanzure | 16:30 < yashgaroth> immunogenicity of gfp | 16:37 |
| kanzure | thus my intercellular gfp comments above | 16:37 |
| atomical | yeah, maybe | 16:37 |
| kanzure | what? | 16:38 |
| atomical | maybe she could have picked better targets | 16:38 |
| atomical | think i could get some gene therapy done for 10k? | 16:38 |
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| atomical | it's a few days of work i hear | 16:38 |
| streety | why not measure the expression levels? Do you need a visual reporter? | 16:38 |
| atomical | some grad student can probably do it, right? | 16:38 |
| kanzure | most grad students are not going to be willing to do that. so you should just learn the methods yourself. | 16:39 |
| kanzure | streety: expression levels would be useful, sure | 16:39 |
| atomical | most but not all? | 16:40 |
| kanzure | well if you find some, let me know | 16:40 |
| atomical | dude, i'm a programmer, not a geneticist | 16:40 |
| FourFire | I'm not even a *student :( | 16:41 |
| atomical | maybe i can find some with a drug addiction. they should amenable, right? | 16:41 |
| kanzure | yeah because professions are totally fucking exclusionary for acquiring other skills | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i am also a programmer. nobody gives a shit. | 16:41 |
| atomical | do you even lift? | 16:41 |
| kanzure | i lift angry | 16:41 |
| kanzure | look, you shouldn't be so self-defeating | 16:42 |
| kanzure | knowing how to program is not something that damages your brain from learning other things | 16:42 |
| kanzure | but, changing topics for a sec, if you find those grad students i really do mean let me know | 16:42 |
| kanzure | while you're at it maybe you can find me an organic chemistry grad student? | 16:43 |
| kanzure | i have been trying to hire some (like, paid) | 16:43 |
| * FourFire thinks in the opposite way: being a programmer is a capability floor for being able to do meaningful things in general | 16:43 | |
| * FourFire is not (yet) a programmer | 16:43 | |
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| atomical_ | [18:41:28] <atomical>do you even lift? | 16:43 |
| atomical_ | [18:42:28] <atomical>10 grand for not dying seems pretty cheap, ya kno? i figure i would fuck it up. | 16:43 |
| atomical_ | [18:42:44] <atomical>that's totally a hacker news stereotype though | 16:43 |
| atomical_ | [18:42:57] Disconnected | 16:43 |
| atomical_ | [18:43:05] <atomical>you know, the soylent guy that thinks he's a dietician | 16:43 |
| kanzure | atomical_: http://gnusha.org/logs/2015-12-04.log | 16:43 |
| streety | why grad students? If you are able to pay couldn't you hire anyone with the relevant experience/interest? | 16:43 |
| atomical_ | there's kind of a limit if you aren't trained | 16:43 |
| kanzure | there's no guarantee that lifting will make you not die, i don't know what you're thinking | 16:44 |
| atomical_ | i'm not hiring some fucking hobbyist from hacker news | 16:44 |
| kanzure | what hobbyist? | 16:44 |
| kanzure | streety: even harder to find non-grad-student chemists | 16:44 |
| atomical_ | i'm just giving an example. i would not trust myself with modifying my genes. | 16:45 |
| streety | that may be, but still seems self-defeating to limit the search | 16:45 |
| kanzure | streety: well, i wasn't really limiting my search in the past, only in the messages i sent above, but fair point | 16:45 |
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| FourFire | kanzure, in the one inverview of parrish that I bothered to watch, she mentions an older scientist who took the same therapy (one or both?) five years ago | 16:46 |
| atomical_ | what genes would be better? i don't want to be super huge or anything. women aren't even attracted to that shit. i'd have to go gay. | 16:46 |
| FourFire | any idea who that is? chronological age? pics? | 16:47 |
| kanzure | FourFire: nope no clue who that was. | 16:47 |
| atomical_ | i bet it's pretty common for scientists to take the drugs they develop. they probably don't publicize it though. | 16:47 |
| atomical_ | FourFire: Is Liz Parrish actually intelligent, or is she just another TED talk waiting to happen? | 16:47 |
| FourFire | atomical_, I'm undescided: she seemed to be intelligently avoiding stupid pitfalls during her interview, even though the interviewee seemed to be a typical singularitard | 16:49 |
| FourFire | but also has a lot of the TED vibe | 16:49 |
| atomical_ | it's fine that she wants to experiment on herself, that's ok. low expectations though. | 16:50 |
| FourFire | "Liz Parrish tells a story about how CRISPIR and vegetarianism changed her life" | 16:50 |
| atomical_ | i think a bodybuilder would have gotten more out of it | 16:50 |
| atomical_ | It wasn't CRISPIR was it? | 16:52 |
| atomical_ | "The myostatin inhibitor has been tested already. We should start seeing results around 4-5 months and peak around 8-12. Although we could extrapolate from the myostatin inhibitor, we do not know how long it will take the telomerase induction to begin working because no one has done it before." | 16:55 |
| FourFire | atomical_, CRISPIR is just the delivery method, not the therapy itself. | 16:58 |
| atomical_ | that's pretty cutting edge, right? i thought she had this shit done in south america. | 16:59 |
| kanzure | are you aware of how obnoxious you are? i'm having trouble identifying this. | 17:00 |
| kanzure | "cutting edge" science is usually not restricted to a certain time and place. most equipment works in most regions of the world. there's no "region lock" on most scientific equipment (although cnc machines sometimes have this). | 17:00 |
| kanzure | retrovirus-based gene therapies are not the same thing as crispr | 17:01 |
| FourFire | kanzure, my bad. | 17:01 |
| kanzure | having a large amount of muscle mass does not force you to become homosexual | 17:01 |
| kanzure | i think that follistatin levels could be measured somehow (probably with protein assays of some kind), but visual results could be influenced by steroids or any other number of factors in intervening months | 17:02 |
| AmbulatoryCortex | if a 400 pound walking sack of fat can find love, I'm sure a mountain of meat would have considerably less trouble | 17:03 |
| atomical_ | eh | 17:04 |
| atomical_ | 400 pound walking sack of fat can find another 400 pounder | 17:04 |
| atomical_ | yeah, i realize i'm obnoxious, but CRISPIR is relatively new, right? | 17:04 |
| kanzure | are you a redditor | 17:05 |
| streety | you could potentially switch the codons so that the protein is identical but the mRNA is detectably different. Also detect the construct integrated in the genome | 17:05 |
| atomical_ | hated on reddit because i trash reddit's favorite diet | 17:05 |
| pasky_ | so what the heck is CRISPIR? | 17:06 |
| kanzure | it's a typo | 17:06 |
| pasky_ | all I can google are typos of CRISPR | 17:06 |
| streety | typo? | 17:06 |
| kanzure | see: obnoxious | 17:06 |
| atomical_ | i think he knows what that means | 17:06 |
| pasky_ | okay :) | 17:06 |
| atomical_ | anyway, the idea that any individual can master any art is ridiculous | 17:07 |
| kanzure | i'm gonna guess the answer to the reddit user question is yes | 17:07 |
| atomical_ | could you do open heart surgery? | 17:08 |
| kanzure | of course | 17:08 |
| atomical_ | let's see the results | 17:08 |
| atomical_ | I do not suffer from false confidence | 17:08 |
| kanzure | you know you can just close as soon as you open up the chest, right? that's still open heart surgery. | 17:08 |
| atomical_ | Is this your plan for a new Tim Ferris book? | 17:08 |
| kanzure | i think you will find that testing me like this is a waste of time | 17:09 |
| atomical_ | I can see it now, "Open Heart Surgery In One Step" | 17:09 |
| kanzure | you will get far more value out of me by not being a fucking idiot | 17:09 |
| atomical_ | I have plenty of time to waste | 17:09 |
| streety | even talking about surgery on the heart, you wouldn't get it right first time but you can train for it. Take small steps and build up. | 17:09 |
| pasky_ | so what I caught from the last 20 minutes of chat is that there's some scientist who said her colleague applied CRISPR-based gene therapy 5 years ago (!?) on himself | 17:09 |
| kanzure | pasky_: no... | 17:10 |
| atomical_ | pasky_: http://www.longevityreporter.org/blog/2015/10/24/liz-parrish | 17:10 |
| kanzure | god damn it why the shit didn't i kickban atomical | 17:10 |
| kanzure | no, they did not use crispr | 17:10 |
| atomical_ | duh | 17:10 |
| atomical_ | that's the point i've been making | 17:10 |
| pasky_ | okay i'll read the actual interview :) | 17:10 |
| kanzure | pasky_: summary is "someone claims to have used adenovirus/retrovirus-based gene therapy for telomerase extension lengthening and follistatin expression, something something south america, hplusroadmap wrote an angry letter to her suggesting that she chooses different visual reporter indicators for whether the gene therapy works" | 17:11 |
| atomical_ | an official letter? | 17:11 |
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| kanzure | nah, i am being facetious | 17:12 |
| kanzure | haven't pinged her | 17:12 |
| pasky_ | neat, thanks | 17:12 |
| kanzure | it's less neat because she claimed that this was an anti-aging treatment | 17:12 |
| kanzure | i mean, it's true that telomerase hsa been investigated in previous experiments regarding aging, but that's not saying much | 17:13 |
| kanzure | *telomerase has been | 17:13 |
| kanzure | *telomerase extension lengthening | 17:13 |
| atomical_ | shot in the dark | 17:13 |
| atomical_ | probably just needs some excitement in her life | 17:14 |
| atomical_ | maybe she can learn programming and master a new art? | 17:14 |
| kanzure | are you asking because you're not sure if you should expect someone to be capable of learning to program? or because of some other reason? | 17:14 |
| kanzure | atomical_: have you done a writeup of your $10k gene therapy project? and if so, can i see it | 17:15 |
| atomical_ | i am not skilled in the art, just incredibly bored with life like Liz Parrish | 17:16 |
| kanzure | perhaps you could occupy your time by reading these http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/longevity/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/bio/ http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/ | 17:16 |
| atomical_ | 10k is an arbitrary number | 17:16 |
| atomical_ | how do you feel about dihexa, kanzure? | 17:17 |
| kanzure | i have some ideas for making some strong nootropics, but in the past have not been impressed by any nootropics i've taken (besides adderall, although i think it's probably not a general nootropic for most people), haven't spent much time on existing small molecule noots. | 17:18 |
| kanzure | i would guess BDNF is a good idea | 17:19 |
| kanzure | .wik dihexa | 17:19 |
| yoleaux | "Dihexa (also known as N-hexanoic-Tyr-Ile-(6) aminohexanoic amide) is a oligopeptide and angiotensin IV derived drug candidate that acts as a hepatocyte growth factor agonist and dramatically improves the cognitive function of rats with Alzheimer's-like mental impairment." — https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihexa | 17:19 |
| kanzure | ".. and dramatically improves the cognitive function of rats with Alzheimer's-like mental impairment.[1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9][10] In bench assays using living nerve cells to monitor new neuronal connections, Harding, Wright and their colleagues found Dihexa to be seven orders of magnitude more powerful than BDNF, which has yet to be effectively developed for therapeutic use. In other words, it would take 10 million times as much ... | 17:19 |
| kanzure | ... BDNF to get as much new synapse formation as Dihexa.[11]" | 17:19 |
| kanzure | welp that sounds like an interesting candidate for ultrasound-burstable microcapsules (for targeted delivery to specific brain areas). | 17:20 |
| docl | Microcapsules are something I could see being very helpful for cryoprotectant delivery. The challenge there is primarily osmotic. You need to get the solutes in there fast in order to do the procedure fast enough to avoid toxicity, but the required concentration is very high, so perfusion has to be ramped slowly to avoid bursting cells.[C[C | 17:42 |
| Filosofem | cool.. | 17:51 |
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| Jawmare | interesting structure | 17:51 |
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| Jawmare | I don't think that is hard to synthesize | 17:53 |
| Jawmare | 4 peptide bonds | 17:53 |
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| Jawmare | kanzure, want to work on synthesizing it? | 18:12 |
| kanzure | dihexa? | 18:13 |
| kanzure | shrug, sure why not. i could think of a worse way to blow a weekend. | 18:13 |
| kanzure | docl: traditionally the way to do ramp-up is with microcapsules that have shells of varying thickness to control the dosage over time based on the thick shell wall dissolving | 18:20 |
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| atomical_ | it has already been synthesized in group buys | 19:35 |
| atomical_ | and synthesized privately and sold | 19:35 |
| atomical_ | i think you can buy it off ebay from nyles | 19:35 |
| atomical_ | also, i think high synapse formation is associated with several pathologies | 19:36 |
| xentrac | kanzure: is your statement about adderall general to amphetamine and methamphetamine, or specific to near-racemic amphetamine? | 19:40 |
| xentrac | I think amphetamine has been shown to be pretty widely effective for the things it's effective for, some of which you could consider nootropic (focus, improved memory formation) | 19:41 |
| xentrac | but it has some serious drawbacks | 19:41 |
| xentrac | I wouldn't be willing to try it again myself | 19:42 |
| kanzure | xentrac: dextroamphetamine salts do wonderful things for me | 19:48 |
| kanzure | well, dextroamphetamine salts in time-release capsules. | 19:48 |
| kanzure | xentrac: for me it has unusually strong effects (difference between functioning vs non-functioning, almost) | 19:49 |
| kanzure | xentrac: and i have noticed that this doesn't tend to be the case for most people | 19:49 |
| xentrac | oh, that's true | 19:56 |
| xentrac | but I don't think of that as a nootropic effect, if the non-functioning state is the one I'm envisioning | 19:57 |
| xentrac | where you're too distractible to get basic life things done, or occasionally even carry on a conversation | 19:57 |
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| kanzure | xentrac: worse than that. trouble constructing coherent thoughts, or remembering conclusions to thoughts, it makes for essentially no progress whatsoever. | 20:44 |
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| fenn | http://stores.ebay.com/Nyles7s-Unusual-Compounds some interesting chemicals but unfortunately no dihexa for sale at the moment | 22:18 |
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