2016-06-12.log

--- Log opened Sun Jun 12 00:00:27 2016
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maakukanzure: anyone to see in boston?00:40
maakuboston/cambridge00:40
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abetuskI'm in Somerville, not that I'm  worth seeing05:54
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kanzuremaaku: djat, abetusk, ed boyden, adam marblestone, david dalrymple (although he might have moved to the bay area because he's a traitor), heath matlock (ybit in here), david vorick (taek), bosslab folks, fablab folks, mit media lab folks, http://syntheticneurobiology.org/ these people, mit dci people if you can tolerate them (perhaps joi ito at least).06:45
kanzuretaek will know more people on the cryptography and computation side of things.06:47
kanzureneil gershenfeld i guess.06:52
kanzuregeorge church if you can flag him down ever.06:52
kanzurenot sure about connectomics people but there should be at least two or three of those wandering around boston somewhere06:53
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kanzureneed some name suggestions for the electroporator (if i was to pick the name, that is). "cell membrane disruptor" "membrane scrambler" "transgenetic doohickey".. meh.07:50
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kanzure"cultural shocker"07:52
kanzure"brane piercer"..07:52
kanzuredamn, probably not going to find much better than "culture shock"07:53
kanzure"culture wand"07:55
JayDuggerelectro-dialator?08:02
JayDuggerYeah, I'll stop. All the rest of my ideas are starting to sound like sex toys.08:02
JayDuggerElectric key? SFW, and accordingly puny.08:03
JayDuggerTransfection funnel? (Not too sure about that verb-turned-adjective. Might lack accuracy and euphony.)08:05
JayDugger<ADJECTIVE> <NOUN>, where <NOUN> ∈ {disruptor, doohickey, key, nozzle, scrambler, shocker, shooter, wand} and <ADJECTIVE> ∈ {brane, cell membrane, cultural, culture, electro, electric,  membrane, transgenic, transfection}.08:09
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maakuthis adam marblestone character looks interesting.09:56
kanzuremaaku: http://diyhpl.us/~bryan/papers2/neuro/Designing%20scalable%20biological%20interfaces%20-%20Marblestone.pdf09:57
maakuwas just reading that09:57
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maakucatern: trying to decide if I should make the jump and get a pebble time 2, for the purpose of hacking to 24/7 record sensors10:23
maakuat the same time for $24 this device has extremely good audio quality : https://www.amazon.com/Weefun-Wristband-Rechargeable-Reduction-Interview/dp/B01B79K0ZW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1465752208&sr=8-5&keywords=voice+record+wrist10:24
maakuit just doesn't sync over BLE :(10:24
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jrayhawkhttp://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15592294.2015.1062207 attn: fenn and other larmarckian denialists10:29
jrayhawker, lamarckian10:30
caternmaaku: that looks perfect!10:47
caternwhy is BLE needed, since it has storage capacity for 48 hours  and battery capacity for 20 hours?10:48
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maakucatern: I'm looking to the more ambitious goal of analyzing this in real time11:30
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maakucatern: i ordered one of these weefun devices12:05
caternah, that is ambitious, but interesting12:06
maakui do eventually want to get this stuff processed in real time and use some sort of feedback to the wearer12:06
caternit's unfortunate... i don't think i'll actually be able to do this once out of university12:06
caternsince i don't think my job would look kindly upon recording everything being said around me12:07
kanzurespeak for yourself12:07
kanzurehigh-resolution logs from meetings and phone calls has come in handy a number of times on my end12:07
maakuif nothing else it would be nice to have on at home recording all the cute things my kids say12:07
maakukanzure: what we need is some way of automating extraction of information from that though12:08
caterni guess if i had separate devices recording at work and at home12:08
caternmaaku: i think grep in itself is pretty handy12:08
kanzurebefore it can be automated there must be a manual method, and i don't think there's a manual method for that either..12:08
maakuagreed. your information is not sufficiently structured12:09
kanzurespeakers are also bad at structuring information, fwiw :)12:09
maakunot a criticism obviosuly as you are doing a better job than any of us, but you're lacking a higher level abstraction on top of that information12:10
maakuwhich would be used to decide when to prompt you with info, or 'remind this person about x,y,z'12:10
kanzureoften to me it sounds like endles strings of word spaghetti. took me a while to realize that lots of people don't communicate to inform but rather for uh other reasons..12:10
maakugoing down this path it quickly becomes an ai-complete problem, which is not surprising since what you're really doing is automating a personal secretary12:11
kanzurehaha secretary.... maybe. that's kind of overstating the job of a secretary though.12:11
maakupersonal assistant?12:12
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kanzurebtw you should also put some thought into my meetlog problems (described in recent backlog) http://gnusha.org/logs/2016-06-10.log (see near 15:55)12:12
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kanzurecompounding benefits of transcripts vs. compounding benefits of correctly (and more timely) routing information and knowledge to various people12:13
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kanzureyashgaroth: gimme a creative and crazy name for an open-source electroporator device project thing12:15
kanzurecandidates so far are "open electroporator", "culture wand", "shock wand", "culture shock", "membrane disruptor", "bishop cell zapper".12:16
yashgarothif only "shock level 1" worked, but it doesn't really12:17
yoleaux31 May 2016 17:17Z <nmz787_i> yashgaroth: you could have an identical set of wells below the wells you're talking about, with gel sandwiched between, vertically... then electrophoresis from the top well down to the bottom12:17
yashgarothmay 31st?!12:18
kanzurehttp://gnusha.org/logs/2016-05-31.log12:19
yashgarothI can't speculate on how the electronics on that would work, it's like that field of infinite resistors problem; but if none of the proteins co-migrate with the DNA, or have an acidic isoelectric point, mmmmaybe12:23
kanzureinfinite field of resistors, rather :)12:23
yashgarothwell yes, I suppose infinite resistors are easier to calculate for12:24
yashgarothalso I realized before that with the TdT method you're synthesizing 5'-3' which makes it really annoying to generate a template for nicking + polymerase since the template is in the wrong orientation12:24
yashgarothunless you're not amplifying off the template but that's also a huge pain, oh well12:25
yashgarothI mean you could make the synthetic long enough to hairpin and wrap back around and then hit it with a couple of nicking enzymes first, but that's like quintupling the length you need to synthesize12:26
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kanzurejohn likes the name "shock wand"14:04
kanzureyashgaroth: any reasons to not go with that?14:04
yashgarothof those listed I prefer that one, should be fine14:04
kanzurenot too similar to *ahem* the magic wand?14:06
yashgarothI think "shock" is enough to block mental associations but there's no real way of telling14:07
kanzurei'm pretty sure people call that "electricity play" or something14:07
yashgarothoh yeah check the first google result, nm14:08
kanzurehahah14:08
yashgaroth"open electroporator" might be okay, plus if you preface 'open' onto any lab equipment you're guaranteed six figures on kickstarter14:10
kanzurenot this guy though. he is not good at marketing at all. and kickstarter is mostly about marketing.14:10
kanzurei could pay a firm to do his kickstarter campaign i guess, but basically i have struck an agreement with him where i'm funding the project so that he doesn't have to bother with crowdwhatever14:11
yashgarothso is it like cuvette-based or what?14:11
kanzurehttp://cibolo.us/pipermail/open_electroporator/2016-June/000071.html14:12
kanzureimage http://cibolo.us/pipermail/open_electroporator/attachments/20160602/40066a2a/attachment-0001.jpg14:12
kanzureyashgaroth: also check the long-form proposal sent yesterday http://cibolo.us/pipermail/open_electroporator/attachments/20160611/03ec46ed/attachment-0001.odt14:13
kanzureit was also discussed recently in here http://gnusha.org/logs/2016-06-03.log14:14
yashgarothhmm never seen a pipetrode-based one before14:18
kanzurehttp://www.tritechresearch.com/shop/items/CG-1.JPG14:18
kanzurehttp://www.tritechresearch.com/CG-2.html14:19
kanzure"mammozapper" alright well whatever name gets picked, it needs to be better than "mammozapper"14:19
yashgarothand not look like a purple alien dildo14:20
yashgarothbut yeah if the pipet-based system already works then it's just electrons and stuff...wait did he mention anything about the actual pipetting action, like drawing and dispensing the cells?14:24
yashgarothoh that's the pull lever thing, okay14:26
kanzure"Soon after this is done as a full manual machine, (see the lever on the grip?), I'll be searching for teeny gear motors to push on a length of tubing for the pipette expel and draw in functions.  The it will be an automation tool also."14:26
yashgarothwould be nice if there was a version with the same electronics but worked with standard cuvettes, since those are infinitely more popular with everyone14:31
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yashgarothah good he mentions starting with regular cuvettes, especially if tritech is the only people who do the pipetrodes14:35
kanzureapparently the tritech person has been responsive and cooperative14:37
yashgaroth"hi I'd like to make a lower-priced version of your product, will you be the sole existing supplier of the consumables? great"14:38
kanzurelow price is not always something to worry about14:39
kanzureusually folks who are doing low price work will not be great at marketing because they can't afford it14:39
kanzureor, the low price folks wont be seeking the big customers who are incapable of buying things under $500014:39
yashgarothdepends what proportion of your user base will be diybio people, versus poor labs, of which there are more every day14:42
yashgaroththe open qPCR machine has been popping up in academic labs when they actually manage to manufacture one, and it apparently works fine for $3k vs the usual $30k floor for qPCR14:43
kanzurethey are lethargic? or manufacturing problems?14:43
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yashgarothI'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but they claim QC issues in china what a surprise14:44
kanzurewell we have someone in china now as soon as that ultrasound project starts up (i have a call on monday with shanghai about their team)14:45
yashgarothI'm not saying they can't do good stuff, but I've had reliability issues even with new qPCR setups, it needs a lot of precision14:46
kanzurewhat's the precision for?14:47
kanzurephoton counting?14:47
yashgarothlooking for very small variations in fluorescence in real time with a lot of noise, some temperature variability on the reactions14:47
kanzurehmm.14:48
yashgarotheven the expensive machines are just LED + CCD with peltiers for temperature, so it can be done14:48
kanzurewhat about better fluorophores14:48
kanzurei guess that's victim blaming, heh14:48
yashgarothtrading off noise for signal there, modern ones are quite bright and photostable14:48
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kanzureemailing jojack about "but what about the sex toys" was a mistake, his response is completely predictable14:59
yashgarothwhy, was it just "everything is a sex toy now, just roll with it"?14:59
kanzurepretty much15:00
kanzure"Lol you should embrace the sex toy connotations"15:01
yashgarothwell, if you consider it from the perspective of genetic transfer, the parallels write themselves15:01
kanzureand then he listed out some names, so there's that at least.15:01
kanzure"Bio blaster genezapper"15:02
kanzure"shockswapper"15:02
yashgarothooh bio blaster15:02
kanzurejojackulator15:02
kanzureplasmidifier?15:03
yashgarothalso good15:04
kanzurerotpatcher15:05
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maakukanzure: fenn was right. "you eventually need to actually do a calculation15:13
maakui mean right now you're doing that in your head -- see person, look up what you need to talk about or whatever, and use your index to acquire info15:14
maakui don't really know what algorithm you're using or wanting to use with this data, but right now it's you that's doing it15:14
maakuso some clarity on the goal here would better inform how it can be automated15:14
maaku(and it is actually a project i'm interested in, related to why i'm looking into this pervasive personal recording gear)15:15
kanzurewell i think at the moment i'm out of ideas because of a failure to think of a relevant metric15:16
kanzureit's not easy to write a precise definition of "correctly routing information and knowledge to the right people at the right time (or earlier)"15:16
kanzureand perhaps that's too ambiguous15:16
maakuyeah that's just hiding all the complexity in "correctly"15:18
maakuIf you have the past conversational history with a person, you should be able to build a model of "relevance" to that person for other ideas15:20
maakuthen sort all ideas by relevance, filter out those already discussed, and start from the top15:21
maakuAs to how you actually do that, it sounds like some deep learning NLP, and some sort of complicated topology comparisons in thought space ... maybe pasky has some ideas15:22
maakuor jcorgen... where'd he go anyway?15:22
kanzurehm i guess we should ping him. i was going ot ask if you had done a hangout with him now that you're back stateside.15:23
maakunot yet, i should15:24
kanzurehere is a brief sketch of one possible direction15:24
kanzurethere are two phases15:24
kanzureone is manually specifically marking individuals as subscribed to certain overarching topic feeds, with relevancy weights or something (yes there are ways to do auto classification here, sure)15:25
kanzuresecond is to daily run something that monitors for discussed tags/conversations  that seem like they are relevant to each topic/stream, and then put those topics into a queue and select some people subscribed to that stream who have not been talked iwth recently on those subjets15:25
kanzure*subjects15:26
maakumakes sense15:26
kanzureanother thing i would like eventually is something where i could "pin" two people together so that i could say "i talk with maaku a lot about neuroscience, and to the extent that i do, it would be good to be reminded to also equally talk with notmaaku about those same topics"15:28
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paskyi tried to find the context for this question but got lost in the backlog15:29
kanzurepasky: i have a giant database of every conversation i've had since 2009. each conversation has at least 5 to 10 tags, sometimes more. the goal is to come up with some metric and then automation around "helping kanzure figure out which people to be speaking with and which things to be informing them about" e.g. because it's helpful to synchronize sooner rather than later due to forgetfulness or whatever.15:31
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maakupasky: and I've taken this as a special case of a larger problem -- making sure the right information is available at the right moment to keep us all productive15:41
maakui had some musings above about using NLP to assign relevance scores for (person, info) pairings15:41
kanzurei want to avoid false negatives like "oops i forgot to tell andytoshi about this 32-byte infinite multisig scheme that i was talking with some random person about"15:55
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justanotheruseris pyquante the best chemical simulation library for python?17:42
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kanzurejustanotheruser: i think the blueobelisk people would have very strong opinions about that (and they would probably be accurate)19:25
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justanotherusero_o https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/BlueoneliskDeps_CCBY2.0.jpg19:29
kanzureoh yeah it's a bit of a spaghetti hunt, have fun with that19:30
kanzureif your hunt leads back to me, then all i can suggest is start over from the beginning19:30
justanotheruserhah19:30
justanotheruserthey should have come up with a better name so my results don't keep going to a fictional dorm in yu-gi-oh19:31
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maakujustanotheruser: depends on the chemical simulation you are doing19:59
maakunone are actually implemented in Python though19:59
kanzuresome of the CHARMM stuff and whatever probably have python bindings, though20:01
justanotherusermaaku: it's all cython in pyquante. I assume you've used it?20:01
kanzurenanoengineer had lots of python bindings for various molecular dynamics things20:01
kanzureyes, yes, everyone has used cython (and i'm technically a cython author i think)20:02
kanzurehttps://github.com/cython/cython/commits?author=kanzure20:02
kanzurei guess not. well anyway...20:02
justanotheruserno I mean I assume he's used pyquante20:03
* kanzure sleeps20:05
justanotheruserWhat does NE do? n-body simulations I assume? calculating the potential energy surface?20:07
justanotheruserproblem with pyquante is it seems to not be actively developed is written in python2 https://github.com/rpmuller/pyquante220:08
maakujustanotheruser: never have used pyquante20:11
maakujustanotheruser: really depends on what you are looking to simulate20:12
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justanotheruserenergy minimization, binding affinity, reaction simulations20:16
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fenn.title https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ypb7jG3FgWA20:49
yoleauxOpen qPCR Kickstarter Video - YouTube20:49
fennthey did a pretty good job on the video at least20:49
fennhttps://angel.co/chai20:53
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nmz787sup22:37
nmz787.tell chris_99 hey do you know any good chips with a Programmable Gain Amplifier (PGA) for pre-ADC?22:39
yoleauxnmz787: I'll pass your message to chris_99.22:39
nmz787.tell chris_99 preferably something that can run micropython :/22:41
yoleauxnmz787: I'll pass your message to chris_99.22:41
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--- Log closed Mon Jun 13 00:00:28 2016

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