* [bitcoindev] Adding New BIP Editors @ 2024-02-27 18:53 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-02-27 20:11 ` [bitcoindev] " 'Léo Haf' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List ` (5 more replies) 0 siblings, 6 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-27 18:53 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev Hi All, Following on the recent [discussion][1] about BIP process friction, and admissions from Luke that he has not had the time to actively work on the BIPs repo ([2], [3]), I think it is prudent for us to look at adding more BIPs editors. These people would have the same permissions and responsibilities that Luke has, i.e. can assign BIP numbers, merge PRs adding new BIPs, merge PRs to fix existing BIPs,and all other responsibilities as described in [BIP 2][4]. I think this would significantly help get through the backlog of BIPs PRs, and responding to them in a timely manner to significantly reduce the friction of getting BIPs changes merged. Of course, this would require that all BIP editors agree on the numbering scheme so that BIPs continue to be numbered consistently. Considering the responsibilities of these tasks, I think any new BIP editors should be people who have a history of following and being involved in Bitcoin development, as well as being known to evaluate proposals objectively, and of course, are willing to do the job. With that in mind, I think both Kanzure and RubenSomsen are very good candidates to be BIP editors, and having both of them working on the BIPs repo would greatly benefit all of us. Thanks, Ava [1]: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2024-January/022289.html [2]: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2024-January/022291.html [3]: https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1761127972302459000 [4]: https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0002.mediawiki#user-content-BIP_Editor_Responsibilities__Workflow -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e%40achow101.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-27 18:53 [bitcoindev] Adding New BIP Editors 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-27 20:11 ` 'Léo Haf' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-02-27 22:40 ` Luke Dashjr 2024-02-27 21:33 ` [bitcoindev] " 'Antoine Poinsot' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Léo Haf' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-27 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2309 bytes --] Luke should choose the new editors himself, especially since he has already made a call for applications. Le mardi 27 février 2024 à 20:27:57 UTC+1, Ava Chow a écrit : > Hi All, > > Following on the recent [discussion][1] about BIP process friction, and > admissions from Luke that he has not had the time to actively work on > the BIPs repo ([2], [3]), I think it is prudent for us to look at adding > more BIPs editors. These people would have the same permissions and > responsibilities that Luke has, i.e. can assign BIP numbers, merge PRs > adding new BIPs, merge PRs to fix existing BIPs,and all other > responsibilities as described in [BIP 2][4]. I think this would > significantly help get through the backlog of BIPs PRs, and responding > to them in a timely manner to significantly reduce the friction of > getting BIPs changes merged. Of course, this would require that all BIP > editors agree on the numbering scheme so that BIPs continue to be > numbered consistently. > > Considering the responsibilities of these tasks, I think any new BIP > editors should be people who have a history of following and being > involved in Bitcoin development, as well as being known to evaluate > proposals objectively, and of course, are willing to do the job. With > that in mind, I think both Kanzure and RubenSomsen are very good > candidates to be BIP editors, and having both of them working on the > BIPs repo would greatly benefit all of us. > > Thanks, > Ava > > [1]: > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2024-January/022289.html > [2]: > > https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2024-January/022291.html > [3]: https://twitter.com/LukeDashjr/status/1761127972302459000 > [4]: > > https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0002.mediawiki#user-content-BIP_Editor_Responsibilities__Workflow > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/e4048607-64b7-4772-b74e-4566a4b50bc0n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 4249 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-27 20:11 ` [bitcoindev] " 'Léo Haf' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-27 22:40 ` Luke Dashjr 2024-02-27 22:57 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List ` (4 more replies) 0 siblings, 5 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Luke Dashjr @ 2024-02-27 22:40 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev On 2/27/24 15:11, 'Léo Haf' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > Luke should choose the new editors himself, especially since he has > already made a call for applications. Thanks, but this is for the broader development community to decide, not just any one person. My tweet got many people volunteering in response, and while I agree another dev reviewing new BIPs would be helpful, I do think it would be best to have non-devs contribute by triaging what doesn't require dev skills. Of those who actually put their names forward, Jon Atack and Roasbeef stand out as long-time devs to consider (though I have reservations about Roasbeef for this role). (Kanzure and Ruben both seem undecided if they're even available to help at this time.) For non-dev triaging, I would suggest we consider testing out the idea with perhaps Seccour and/or Greg Tonoski. Assigning BIP numbers itself is easy enough. The hard part is evaluating if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev skills (mainly for technical soundness). So IMO we should move forward with more editors ASAP without waiting for a new way to coordinate the numbering (we can deal with that later/in parallel to solving the immediate need). Luke -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3%40dashjr.org. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-27 22:40 ` Luke Dashjr @ 2024-02-27 22:57 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-02-27 23:26 ` Steve Lee ` (3 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-27 22:57 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1451 bytes --] On 02/27/24 05:40 PM, Luke Dashjr wrote: > I do think it would be best to have non-devs contribute by triaging what doesn't require dev > > skills. Can you clarify what the non-dev triagers would be doing? > Assigning BIP numbers itself is easy enough. The hard part is evaluating > if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev > skills (mainly for technical soundness). So IMO we should move forward > with more editors ASAP without waiting for a new way to coordinate the > numbering (we can deal with that later/in parallel to solving the > immediate need). While I think having BIP editors who can go through the backlog of PRs that modify BIPs would be useful, I think the primary complaint recently has really been on the assigning of numbers and subsequently getting those proposed BIPs merged. AJ's original email began with a discussion of open proposed BIPs that were (presumably) waiting on numbers. So I think adding editors who can assign numbers should be something we do sooner rather than later. Ava -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/b2022288-8bd4-4a26-b074-4dcdf704ea08%40achow101.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2327 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-27 22:40 ` Luke Dashjr 2024-02-27 22:57 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-27 23:26 ` Steve Lee 2024-02-28 11:12 ` bitcoin-dev-ml.void867 via Bitcoin Development Mailing List ` (2 subsequent siblings) 4 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Steve Lee @ 2024-02-27 23:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Luke Dashjr; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2330 bytes --] I am unfamiliar with Seccour and Greg Tonoski. Is there a place to look at their history of bitcoin contributions? On Tue, Feb 27, 2024 at 2:45 PM Luke Dashjr <luke@dashjr•org> wrote: > On 2/27/24 15:11, 'Léo Haf' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > > Luke should choose the new editors himself, especially since he has > > already made a call for applications. > > Thanks, but this is for the broader development community to decide, not > just any one person. > > My tweet got many people volunteering in response, and while I agree > another dev reviewing new BIPs would be helpful, I do think it would be > best to have non-devs contribute by triaging what doesn't require dev > skills. > > Of those who actually put their names forward, Jon Atack and Roasbeef > stand out as long-time devs to consider (though I have reservations > about Roasbeef for this role). (Kanzure and Ruben both seem undecided if > they're even available to help at this time.) For non-dev triaging, I > would suggest we consider testing out the idea with perhaps Seccour > and/or Greg Tonoski. > > Assigning BIP numbers itself is easy enough. The hard part is evaluating > if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev > skills (mainly for technical soundness). So IMO we should move forward > with more editors ASAP without waiting for a new way to coordinate the > numbering (we can deal with that later/in parallel to solving the > immediate need). > > Luke > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3%40dashjr.org > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CABu3BAdsKNt7YN93qKrQFgqgYZsZC7%2BZYtdPNzVbymVhGxXD9A%40mail.gmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3194 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-27 22:40 ` Luke Dashjr 2024-02-27 22:57 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-02-27 23:26 ` Steve Lee @ 2024-02-28 11:12 ` bitcoin-dev-ml.void867 via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-02-28 16:31 ` Tim Ruffing 2024-03-07 22:39 ` Keagan McClelland 4 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: bitcoin-dev-ml.void867 via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-28 11:12 UTC (permalink / raw) Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Why does non-dev triaging require any permissions? For BIP modifications of existing BIPs, the list of authors is in the header, so anyone can get this list and ping the corresponding GitHub account. Once at least one author has approved the changes, the editor(s) can be notified. Given that the BIP process is documented, for simple issues arising in newly proposed BIPs, anyone with good understanding of the process should be able to help without permission. For example, leaving a comment that a required section is missing (c.f. https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/pull/1500#pullrequestreview-1796550166). So if there is anyone out there with good understanding of the process, willing to help, they could start right away with non-dev triage? Regardless, I agree that there is a need for another BIP editor, given the backlog for number assignment and backlog on merges of approved changes to existing BIPs. The proposed candidates seem like a good fit. Best, void867 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/170911879187.7.13128843405903206012.276082462%40slmail.me. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-27 22:40 ` Luke Dashjr ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2024-02-28 11:12 ` bitcoin-dev-ml.void867 via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-02-28 16:31 ` Tim Ruffing 2024-03-07 20:56 ` Antoine Riard 2024-03-14 11:56 ` Chris Stewart 2024-03-07 22:39 ` Keagan McClelland 4 siblings, 2 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Tim Ruffing @ 2024-02-28 16:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Luke Dashjr, bitcoindev On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 17:40 -0500, Luke Dashjr wrote: > The hard part is evaluating > if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev > skills (mainly for technical soundness). I'm aware that checking technical soundness is in accordance with BIP2 [1], but I believe that this is one of the main problems of the current process, and I can imagine that this is what eats the time of editors. I'd prefer a BIP process in which the editors merely check that the proposal is related to the Bitcoin ecosystem and meets some minimal formal criteria that we already enforce now (i.e., is a full self- contained document, has the required sections, etc...). This relieves the editors not just from the effort, but also from the responsibility to do so. Technical soundness should be evaluated by the audience of a BIP, not by the editor. Best, Tim [1] BIP2 says: "For each new BIP that comes in an editor does the following: - Read the BIP to check if it is ready: sound and complete. The ideas must make technical sense, even if they don't seem likely to be accepted. [...]" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/42e6c1d1d39d811e2fe7c4c5ce6e09c705bd3dbb.camel%40timruffing.de. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-28 16:31 ` Tim Ruffing @ 2024-03-07 20:56 ` Antoine Riard 2024-03-14 11:56 ` Chris Stewart 1 sibling, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-07 20:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1867 bytes --] Hi, > For non-dev triaging, I would suggest we consider testing out the idea with perhaps Seccour I can vet for Seccour. Already met IRL, he's organizing bitcoin meetups somewhere in the world. Best, Antoine Le jeudi 29 février 2024 à 16:55:52 UTC, Tim Ruffing a écrit : > On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 17:40 -0500, Luke Dashjr wrote: > > The hard part is evaluating > > if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev > > skills (mainly for technical soundness). > > I'm aware that checking technical soundness is in accordance with BIP2 > [1], but I believe that this is one of the main problems of the current > process, and I can imagine that this is what eats the time of editors. > > I'd prefer a BIP process in which the editors merely check that the > proposal is related to the Bitcoin ecosystem and meets some minimal > formal criteria that we already enforce now (i.e., is a full self- > contained document, has the required sections, etc...). This relieves > the editors not just from the effort, but also from the responsibility > to do so. Technical soundness should be evaluated by the audience of a > BIP, not by the editor. > > Best, > Tim > > > [1] BIP2 says: > "For each new BIP that comes in an editor does the following: > > - Read the BIP to check if it is ready: sound and complete. The ideas > must make technical sense, even if they don't seem likely to be > accepted. > [...]" > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/38e9e018-eb65-4950-b773-3fc1db218d86n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2533 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-02-28 16:31 ` Tim Ruffing 2024-03-07 20:56 ` Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-14 11:56 ` Chris Stewart 2024-03-27 21:25 ` Murch 1 sibling, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Chris Stewart @ 2024-03-14 11:56 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1779 bytes --] I agree with Tim's thoughts here. I think Jon Atack, Reuben Somsen, Kanzure or Roasbeef would all make great candidates. On Thursday, February 29, 2024 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-6 Tim Ruffing wrote: > On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 17:40 -0500, Luke Dashjr wrote: > > The hard part is evaluating > > if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev > > skills (mainly for technical soundness). > > I'm aware that checking technical soundness is in accordance with BIP2 > [1], but I believe that this is one of the main problems of the current > process, and I can imagine that this is what eats the time of editors. > > I'd prefer a BIP process in which the editors merely check that the > proposal is related to the Bitcoin ecosystem and meets some minimal > formal criteria that we already enforce now (i.e., is a full self- > contained document, has the required sections, etc...). This relieves > the editors not just from the effort, but also from the responsibility > to do so. Technical soundness should be evaluated by the audience of a > BIP, not by the editor. > > Best, > Tim > > > [1] BIP2 says: > "For each new BIP that comes in an editor does the following: > > - Read the BIP to check if it is ready: sound and complete. The ideas > must make technical sense, even if they don't seem likely to be > accepted. > [...]" > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2379 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-14 11:56 ` Chris Stewart @ 2024-03-27 21:25 ` Murch 2024-03-27 23:36 ` Keagan McClelland ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Murch @ 2024-03-27 21:25 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev Hey everyone, I wanted to check in on the topic adding BIP Editors. There seem to be a number of candidates that are willing and able, and there seems to be broad agreement among the current editor, the readers of the repository, and the contributors to the repository that additional help is desirable. I have seen some support and reservations raised for pretty much every candidate. A few weeks have passed since this topic was last active. So far, there seems no clear path forward. If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th). If none get broad support, at least we’d be able to move on and try something else. I propose that all editors share the same privileges, especially that any editor may assign numbers to BIPs. If there is guidance to be provided on the process of assigning numbers and number ranges for specific topics, it should be provided by then. If the editors decide on a single number authority among themselves, that would also be fine as long as it doesn’t become a bottleneck. As Tim and Chris have suggested, it seems reasonable to me that assessment of the technical soundness can be left to the audience. BIPs have been published in the repository and set to the "rejected" status before, so it’s not as if adding a BIP to the repository is treated as an unequivocal endorsement or implementation recommendation. Cheers, Murch On 3/14/24 07:56, Chris Stewart wrote: > I agree with Tim's thoughts here. > > I think Jon Atack, Reuben Somsen, Kanzure or Roasbeef would all make great > candidates. > > On Thursday, February 29, 2024 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-6 Tim Ruffing wrote: > >> On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 17:40 -0500, Luke Dashjr wrote: >>> The hard part is evaluating >>> if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev >>> skills (mainly for technical soundness). >> >> I'm aware that checking technical soundness is in accordance with BIP2 >> [1], but I believe that this is one of the main problems of the current >> process, and I can imagine that this is what eats the time of editors. >> >> I'd prefer a BIP process in which the editors merely check that the >> proposal is related to the Bitcoin ecosystem and meets some minimal >> formal criteria that we already enforce now (i.e., is a full self- >> contained document, has the required sections, etc...). This relieves >> the editors not just from the effort, but also from the responsibility >> to do so. Technical soundness should be evaluated by the audience of a >> BIP, not by the editor. >> >> Best, >> Tim >> >> >> [1] BIP2 says: >> "For each new BIP that comes in an editor does the following: >> >> - Read the BIP to check if it is ready: sound and complete. The ideas >> must make technical sense, even if they don't seem likely to be >> accepted. >> [...]" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/52a0d792-d99f-4360-ba34-0b12de183fef%40murch.one. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-27 21:25 ` Murch @ 2024-03-27 23:36 ` Keagan McClelland 2024-03-27 23:39 ` John C. Vernaleo ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Keagan McClelland @ 2024-03-27 23:36 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Murch; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4215 bytes --] I support this as a go forward plan. On Wed, Mar 27, 2024 at 2:56 PM Murch <murch@murch•one> wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I wanted to check in on the topic adding BIP Editors. There seem to be a > number of candidates that are willing and able, and there seems to be > broad agreement among the current editor, the readers of the repository, > and the contributors to the repository that additional help is desirable. > > I have seen some support and reservations raised for pretty much every > candidate. A few weeks have passed since this topic was last active. So > far, there seems no clear path forward. > > If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this > decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any > candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any > candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new > editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th). If none > get broad support, at least we’d be able to move on and try something else. > > I propose that all editors share the same privileges, especially that > any editor may assign numbers to BIPs. If there is guidance to be > provided on the process of assigning numbers and number ranges for > specific topics, it should be provided by then. If the editors decide on > a single number authority among themselves, that would also be fine as > long as it doesn’t become a bottleneck. > > As Tim and Chris have suggested, it seems reasonable to me that > assessment of the technical soundness can be left to the audience. BIPs > have been published in the repository and set to the "rejected" status > before, so it’s not as if adding a BIP to the repository is treated as > an unequivocal endorsement or implementation recommendation. > > Cheers, > Murch > > > On 3/14/24 07:56, Chris Stewart wrote: > > I agree with Tim's thoughts here. > > > > I think Jon Atack, Reuben Somsen, Kanzure or Roasbeef would all make > great > > candidates. > > > > On Thursday, February 29, 2024 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-6 Tim Ruffing wrote: > > > >> On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 17:40 -0500, Luke Dashjr wrote: > >>> The hard part is evaluating > >>> if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev > >>> skills (mainly for technical soundness). > >> > >> I'm aware that checking technical soundness is in accordance with BIP2 > >> [1], but I believe that this is one of the main problems of the current > >> process, and I can imagine that this is what eats the time of editors. > >> > >> I'd prefer a BIP process in which the editors merely check that the > >> proposal is related to the Bitcoin ecosystem and meets some minimal > >> formal criteria that we already enforce now (i.e., is a full self- > >> contained document, has the required sections, etc...). This relieves > >> the editors not just from the effort, but also from the responsibility > >> to do so. Technical soundness should be evaluated by the audience of a > >> BIP, not by the editor. > >> > >> Best, > >> Tim > >> > >> > >> [1] BIP2 says: > >> "For each new BIP that comes in an editor does the following: > >> > >> - Read the BIP to check if it is ready: sound and complete. The ideas > >> must make technical sense, even if they don't seem likely to be > >> accepted. > >> [...]" > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/52a0d792-d99f-4360-ba34-0b12de183fef%40murch.one > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALeFGL2SJdKFaY6MeyXjQ5RJM4Va2Hh%3DNeRB8wthARbDSBZsvw%40mail.gmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5353 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-27 21:25 ` Murch 2024-03-27 23:36 ` Keagan McClelland @ 2024-03-27 23:39 ` John C. Vernaleo 2024-03-28 13:02 ` Murch 2024-03-27 23:54 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-31 17:01 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 3 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: John C. Vernaleo @ 2024-03-27 23:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Murch; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4548 bytes --] For what it's worth, I strongly support Roasbeef as a candidate. That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who they should be thinking about. ------------------------------------------------------- John C. Vernaleo, Ph.D. www.netpurgatory.com jcv@netpurgatory•com ------------------------------------------------------- On Wed, 27 Mar 2024, Murch wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I wanted to check in on the topic adding BIP Editors. There seem to be a > number of candidates that are willing and able, and there seems to be broad > agreement among the current editor, the readers of the repository, and the > contributors to the repository that additional help is desirable. > > I have seen some support and reservations raised for pretty much every > candidate. A few weeks have passed since this topic was last active. So far, > there seems no clear path forward. > > If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this > decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any > candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any > candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new editors > to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th). If none get broad > support, at least we’d be able to move on and try something else. > > I propose that all editors share the same privileges, especially that any > editor may assign numbers to BIPs. If there is guidance to be provided on the > process of assigning numbers and number ranges for specific topics, it should > be provided by then. If the editors decide on a single number authority among > themselves, that would also be fine as long as it doesn’t become a > bottleneck. > > As Tim and Chris have suggested, it seems reasonable to me that assessment of > the technical soundness can be left to the audience. BIPs have been published > in the repository and set to the "rejected" status before, so it’s not as if > adding a BIP to the repository is treated as an unequivocal endorsement or > implementation recommendation. > > Cheers, > Murch > > > On 3/14/24 07:56, Chris Stewart wrote: >> I agree with Tim's thoughts here. >> >> I think Jon Atack, Reuben Somsen, Kanzure or Roasbeef would all make great >> candidates. >> >> On Thursday, February 29, 2024 at 10:55:52 AM UTC-6 Tim Ruffing wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 2024-02-27 at 17:40 -0500, Luke Dashjr wrote: >>>> The hard part is evaluating >>>> if the new proposal meets the criteria - which definitely needs dev >>>> skills (mainly for technical soundness). >>> >>> I'm aware that checking technical soundness is in accordance with BIP2 >>> [1], but I believe that this is one of the main problems of the current >>> process, and I can imagine that this is what eats the time of editors. >>> >>> I'd prefer a BIP process in which the editors merely check that the >>> proposal is related to the Bitcoin ecosystem and meets some minimal >>> formal criteria that we already enforce now (i.e., is a full self- >>> contained document, has the required sections, etc...). This relieves >>> the editors not just from the effort, but also from the responsibility >>> to do so. Technical soundness should be evaluated by the audience of a >>> BIP, not by the editor. >>> >>> Best, >>> Tim >>> >>> >>> [1] BIP2 says: >>> "For each new BIP that comes in an editor does the following: >>> >>> - Read the BIP to check if it is ready: sound and complete. The ideas >>> must make technical sense, even if they don't seem likely to be >>> accepted. >>> [...]" > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/52a0d792-d99f-4360-ba34-0b12de183fef%40murch.one. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713%40netpurgatory.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-27 23:39 ` John C. Vernaleo @ 2024-03-28 13:02 ` Murch 2024-03-28 16:09 ` /dev /fd0 ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Murch @ 2024-03-28 13:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: jcv; +Cc: bitcoindev I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: - Kanzure - Ruben Somsen - Greg Tonoski - Jon Atack - Roasbeef - Seccour And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who > they should be thinking about. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/9baa15e4-062d-478f-8c87-8ff19ab79989%40murch.one. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 13:02 ` Murch @ 2024-03-28 16:09 ` /dev /fd0 2024-03-28 20:04 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-29 22:17 ` Keagan McClelland ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: /dev /fd0 @ 2024-03-28 16:09 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 991 bytes --] I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > > - Kanzure > - Ruben Somsen > - Greg Tonoski > - Jon Atack > - Roasbeef > - Seccour > > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. > > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who > > they should be thinking about. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 1513 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 16:09 ` /dev /fd0 @ 2024-03-28 20:04 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-28 20:31 ` Antoine Riard ` (3 more replies) 0 siblings, 4 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Matt Corallo @ 2024-03-28 20:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: /dev /fd0, Bitcoin Development Mailing List Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". Matt On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > > - Kanzure > - Ruben Somsen > - Greg Tonoski > - Jon Atack > - Roasbeef > - Seccour > > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. > > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who > > they should be thinking about. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development > Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542%40mattcorallo.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 20:04 ` Matt Corallo @ 2024-03-28 20:31 ` Antoine Riard 2024-03-28 20:59 ` John C. Vernaleo ` (2 subsequent siblings) 3 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-28 20:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Corallo; +Cc: /dev /fd0, Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2839 bytes --] > Their job is to assign numbers and occasionally suggest copy edits to ensure the documents are of high quality and readability. How can you efficiently suggest copy edit if you don't know the terminology to suggest from years of technical experience ? Including when the technical concept is novel and isn't well-defined in the English language. Le jeu. 28 mars 2024 à 20:17, Matt Corallo <lf-lists@mattcorallo•com> a écrit : > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Matt > > On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > > > > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > > > > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > > > > - Kanzure > > - Ruben Somsen > > - Greg Tonoski > > - Jon Atack > > - Roasbeef > > - Seccour > > > > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook > anyone. > > > > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people > know who > > > they should be thinking about. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto: > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/bitcoindev/cuMZ77KEQAA/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542%40mattcorallo.com > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BHA5E5L79nzsBXJpERQyzEWsDg-E6e0%3DPkJ-ZQBFBAB5w%40mail.gmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4634 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 20:04 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-28 20:31 ` Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-28 20:59 ` John C. Vernaleo 2024-03-28 21:19 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-29 2:34 ` Michael Folkson 2024-03-29 5:24 ` /dev /fd0 2024-04-01 21:13 ` David A. Harding 3 siblings, 2 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: John C. Vernaleo @ 2024-03-28 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Corallo; +Cc: /dev /fd0, Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2780 bytes --] Fair enough, that was a less than useful comment of mine. Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him technically useful plus I've worked with him personally and know he is responive and careful enough for the role. Can't speak directly about anyone else so no comment on the rest of them. ------------------------------------------------------- John C. Vernaleo, Ph.D. www.netpurgatory.com jcv@netpurgatory•com ------------------------------------------------------- On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, Matt Corallo wrote: > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Matt > > On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >> I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. >> >> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: >> >> I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: >> >> - Kanzure >> - Ruben Somsen >> - Greg Tonoski >> - Jon Atack >> - Roasbeef >> - Seccour >> >> And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. >> >> On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: >> > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the >> > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know >> who >> > they should be thinking about. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542%40mattcorallo.com. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/d8749216-f881-1d48-d80d-93a54c59c83a%40netpurgatory.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 20:59 ` John C. Vernaleo @ 2024-03-28 21:19 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-29 2:34 ` Michael Folkson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Matt Corallo @ 2024-03-28 21:19 UTC (permalink / raw) To: jcv; +Cc: /dev /fd0, Bitcoin Development Mailing List Right, so again I'm not sure why this is relevant to the BIPs repo. I love Roasbeef and he's a super smart cookie, but that's not really a relevant criteria for the BIP editor, I don't thin. Indeed, the editors need to understand Bitcoin fairly well, but there's tons of candidates who meet that criteria. Rather, the BIP editor(s) should have demonstrated competence at copy-editing, have a long track record in Bitcoin, and be reliably available. Matt On 3/28/24 4:59 PM, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > Fair enough, that was a less than useful comment of mine. > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him technically useful plus I've worked > with him personally and know he is responive and careful enough for the role. > > Can't speak directly about anyone else so no comment on the rest of them. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > John C. Vernaleo, Ph.D. > www.netpurgatory.com > jcv@netpurgatory•com > ------------------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, Matt Corallo wrote: > >> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". >> >> Matt >> >> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >>> I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. >>> >>> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: >>> >>> I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: >>> >>> - Kanzure >>> - Ruben Somsen >>> - Greg Tonoski >>> - Jon Atack >>> - Roasbeef >>> - Seccour >>> >>> And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. >>> >>> On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: >>> > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the >>> > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who >>> > they should be thinking about. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development >>> Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development >> Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542%40mattcorallo.com. >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/41d27183-7604-47e8-85f7-12f314424925%40mattcorallo.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 20:59 ` John C. Vernaleo 2024-03-28 21:19 ` Matt Corallo @ 2024-03-29 2:34 ` Michael Folkson 1 sibling, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-03-29 2:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4084 bytes --] This is getting messier than I initially thought it would. I was happy to +1 Kanzure and RubenSomsen and Murch would also get my +1 but some of these other names seem a touch peculiar to me. For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a Core maintainer given the independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process. Also given Luke is struggling for time I'm not sure making Roasbeef a BIP editor makes sense given he is the maintainer of LND, maintainer of btcd and CTO of Lightning Labs unless he is winding down some of his other responsibilities. This is obviously not a criticism of either as they more than qualified to be maintainers of Core and LND/btcd. GIven the unexpected messiness I'll throw my hat into the ring. I was debating whether to initially as I've given a lot of thought to a BIP process update (BIP 3), closely followed Luke work through some of the frictions and tension points in the past and I disagree it is entirely an administrative task although it broadly is. Thanks Michael On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:14:29 AM UTC John C. Vernaleo wrote: > Fair enough, that was a less than useful comment of mine. > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him technically > useful plus I've worked with him personally and know he is responive and > careful enough for the role. > > Can't speak directly about anyone else so no comment on the rest of them. > > ------------------------------------------------------- > John C. Vernaleo, Ph.D. > www.netpurgatory.com > j...@netpurgatory•com > ------------------------------------------------------- > > On Thu, 28 Mar 2024, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > > > Matt > > > > On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > >> I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > >> > >> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > >> > >> I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > >> > >> - Kanzure > >> - Ruben Somsen > >> - Greg Tonoski > >> - Jon Atack > >> - Roasbeef > >> - Seccour > >> > >> And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. > >> > >> On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > >> > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > >> > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know > >> who > >> > they should be thinking about. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com > >> < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/6806b22d-043d-4201-841a-95e17cd8d542%40mattcorallo.com > . > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6716 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 20:04 ` Matt Corallo 2024-03-28 20:31 ` Antoine Riard 2024-03-28 20:59 ` John C. Vernaleo @ 2024-03-29 5:24 ` /dev /fd0 2024-03-29 21:08 ` Antoine Riard 2024-04-01 21:13 ` David A. Harding 3 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: /dev /fd0 @ 2024-03-29 5:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2080 bytes --] Justification: 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical documentation. 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's good to have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Matt > > On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > > > > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > > > > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > > > > - Kanzure > > - Ruben Somsen > > - Greg Tonoski > > - Jon Atack > > - Roasbeef > > - Seccour > > > > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. > > > > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who > > > they should be thinking about. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to > > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com > >. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 3757 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-29 5:24 ` /dev /fd0 @ 2024-03-29 21:08 ` Antoine Riard 2024-03-30 11:51 ` Michael Folkson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-29 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3973 bytes --] > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him technically useful I think one of the aim of the BIP process is to harmonize common mechanisms among Bitcoin clients of different langages breeds or at different layers (wallet / full-node). Having someone among BIP editors with a proven track record of contributing to other full-node codebase beyond C++ can be valuable in that sense. Especially for all matters related to compatibility and deployment. > For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a Core maintainer given the > independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest privilege account will be able to override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I think it's a valuable point. Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts devised in language A to technical english. Best, Antoine Le vendredi 29 mars 2024 à 12:33:09 UTC, /dev /fd0 a écrit : > Justification: > > 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical documentation. > 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's good to > have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. > > On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: > >> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". >> >> Matt >> >> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >> > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. >> > >> > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: >> > >> > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: >> > >> > - Kanzure >> > - Ruben Somsen >> > - Greg Tonoski >> > - Jon Atack >> > - Roasbeef >> > - Seccour >> > >> > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. >> > >> > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: >> > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the >> > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know >> who >> > > they should be thinking about. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Bitcoin Development >> > Mailing List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to >> > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. >> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com >> < >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8fa1a55-644f-4cf1-b8c1-4fdef22d1869n%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 6656 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-29 21:08 ` Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-30 11:51 ` Michael Folkson 2024-03-30 20:01 ` Antoine Riard 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-03-30 11:51 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Antoine Riard; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest privilege account will be able to override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I think it's a valuable point. In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same organization and everyone knows where it is located. > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts devised in language A to technical english. It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of Bitcoin. On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 9:14 PM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> wrote: > > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him technically > useful > > I think one of the aim of the BIP process is to harmonize common mechanisms among Bitcoin clients of different langages breeds or at different layers (wallet / full-node). > Having someone among BIP editors with a proven track record of contributing to other full-node codebase beyond C++ can be valuable in that sense. > Especially for all matters related to compatibility and deployment. > > > For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a Core maintainer given the > > independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process > > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest privilege account will be able to > override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I think it's a valuable point. > > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts devised in language A to technical english. > > Best, > Antoine > > > Le vendredi 29 mars 2024 à 12:33:09 UTC, /dev /fd0 a écrit : >> >> Justification: >> >> 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical documentation. >> 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's good to have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. >> >> On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: >>> >>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". >>> >>> Matt >>> >>> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >>> > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. >>> > >>> > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: >>> > >>> > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: >>> > >>> > - Kanzure >>> > - Ruben Somsen >>> > - Greg Tonoski >>> > - Jon Atack >>> > - Roasbeef >>> > - Seccour >>> > >>> > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. >>> > >>> > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: >>> > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the >>> > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who >>> > > they should be thinking about. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development >>> > Mailing List" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >>> > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8fa1a55-644f-4cf1-b8c1-4fdef22d1869n%40googlegroups.com. -- Michael Folkson Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHQiXFbjMxHWeWYb4J5TDDpYT0o4CexYdcOjrUAaCt4f6w%40mail.gmail.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-30 11:51 ` Michael Folkson @ 2024-03-30 20:01 ` Antoine Riard 2024-03-31 16:01 ` Michael Folkson 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-30 20:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Folkson; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9743 bytes --] Hi Michael, > In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > organization and everyone knows where it is located. Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate security philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. [0] https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/12/11/joanna-rutkowska-black-hat-europe-2017/ > It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > Bitcoin. No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts have been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors understanding multiple languages helps in quality redaction. Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e "high-quality, well-written standards"). If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : - assign temporary numbers for experimentation - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. Best, Antoine PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. Le sam. 30 mars 2024 à 11:52, Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail•com> a écrit : > > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single > Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest > privilege account will be able to > override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP > editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're > raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own > GH repository I think it's a valuable point. > > In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > organization and everyone knows where it is located. > > > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of > geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is > ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, > we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English > native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my > knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, > French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts > devised in language A to technical english. > > It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > Bitcoin. > > On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 9:14 PM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> > wrote: > > > > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him > technically > > useful > > > > I think one of the aim of the BIP process is to harmonize common > mechanisms among Bitcoin clients of different langages breeds or at > different layers (wallet / full-node). > > Having someone among BIP editors with a proven track record of > contributing to other full-node codebase beyond C++ can be valuable in that > sense. > > Especially for all matters related to compatibility and deployment. > > > > > For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at > some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a > Core maintainer given the > > > independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process > > > > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single > Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest > privilege account will be able to > > override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP > editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the > issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I > think it's a valuable point. > > > > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of > geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is > ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, > we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English > native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my > knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, > French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts > devised in language A to technical english. > > > > Best, > > Antoine > > > > > > Le vendredi 29 mars 2024 à 12:33:09 UTC, /dev /fd0 a écrit : > >> > >> Justification: > >> > >> 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical > documentation. > >> 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's good > to have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. > >> > >> On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: > >>> > >>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > >>> > >>> Matt > >>> > >>> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > >>> > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > >>> > > >>> > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > >>> > > >>> > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > >>> > > >>> > - Kanzure > >>> > - Ruben Somsen > >>> > - Greg Tonoski > >>> > - Jon Atack > >>> > - Roasbeef > >>> > - Seccour > >>> > > >>> > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook > anyone. > >>> > > >>> > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > >>> > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the > >>> > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know > who > >>> > > they should be thinking about. > >>> > > >>> > -- > >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development > >>> > Mailing List" group. > >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to > >>> > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto: > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. > >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit > >>> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8fa1a55-644f-4cf1-b8c1-4fdef22d1869n%40googlegroups.com > . > > > > -- > Michael Folkson > Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BEU4JzbDepsu4Wz-6e0XB4VuKCqatiRnb1nKXe%2B%2BjF%2BRw%40mail.gmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 12386 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-30 20:01 ` Antoine Riard @ 2024-03-31 16:01 ` Michael Folkson 2024-04-01 20:14 ` Antoine Riard 2024-04-07 10:11 ` Ali Sherief 0 siblings, 2 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-03-31 16:01 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Antoine Riard; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Hi Antoine Thanks for the challenge. I think we are going to end up disagreeing on some things but perhaps the discussion is worth having. > Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate security philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. I repeat having the BIPs repo under a different GitHub organization would *not* have resulted in a different outcome in the Taproot activation params or avoided that particular conflict. If Core maintainers had merged a BIPs PR or kicked Luke off as a BIPs editor that would have been a different outcome. There are costs to moving the BIPs repo to a different GitHub organization (existing links, discoverability, two GitHub organizations to worry about rather than one) and as long as Core maintainers don't overrule BIP editors in the BIPs repo there are no clear upsides. > No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts have been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors understanding multiple languages helps in quality redaction. Just as you don't need to be a maintainer to provide high quality pull request review in the Core repo you don't need to be a BIP editor to provide high quality pull request review in the BIPs repo. There is nothing to stop people who aren't BIP editors continuing to provide review of your work in English and a BIPs repo in English only needs BIP editors who are fluent in English. > Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e "high-quality, well-written standards"). I think we'd agree we are somewhere in between these pure extremes and I'd argue mostly towards the administrative task end. One of the reasons I think Kanzure, RubenSomsen and Murch are good BIP editor candidates is that they can also provide high quality pull request review before potentially merging but unlike the Core repo where bad ideas should never be merged a BIP editor will end up merging up pull requests they think are bad ideas that they would never want merged into Core. A BIP can get a BIP number and end up being rejected by Core or the broader community for example. > If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : - assign temporary numbers for experimentation - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment This seems even more bureaucratic to me. Different numbers to track, more complexity. There is a BINANA repo [0] for Bitcoin Inquisition for this kind of early experimentation for proposed consensus changes that aren't advanced enough to be BIPs. > If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. Personally I think it is fine as it is. We are discussing the potential addition of high quality BIP editors as only having one currently (Luke) is clearly not ideal. That will alleviate Luke as a single bottleneck. I do think it is time for an update to the BIP process (BIP 3) too so BIP editors have some guidance on how to treat bad ideas (how bad are we talking!) and are comfortable merging pull requests around attempted (successful or failed) soft fork activations. Ultimately though just like with Core maintainers there is going to be some personal judgment required especially during those cases where there isn't clear community consensus either way. Hence for those cases I'd be much more comfortable with say Kanzure, RubenSomsen or Murch than someone we know very little about and hasn't demonstrated a strong understanding of how Bitcoin works. > PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. Perhaps we can leave discussion of my imperfect analogies to a different forum :) Hopefully we can agree that this is a direction of travel that we shouldn't be pursuing for the BIPs repo. [0]: https://github.com/bitcoin-inquisition/binana On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 8:01 PM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> wrote: > > Hi Michael, > > > In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > > BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > > maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > > him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > > create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > > repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > > organization and everyone knows where it is located. > > Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. > Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate security philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. > > [0] https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/12/11/joanna-rutkowska-black-hat-europe-2017/ > > > It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > > BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > > administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > > nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > > BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > > your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > > BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > > and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > > Bitcoin. > > No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. > I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts have been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors understanding multiple languages helps in quality redaction. > > Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e "high-quality, well-written standards"). > > If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : > - assign temporary numbers for experimentation > - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion > - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment > > If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. > If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. > > Best, > Antoine > > PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. > > Le sam. 30 mars 2024 à 11:52, Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail•com> a écrit : >> >> > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest privilege account will be able to >> override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP >> editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're >> raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own >> GH repository I think it's a valuable point. >> >> In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and >> BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core >> maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed >> him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to >> create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate >> repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same >> organization and everyone knows where it is located. >> >> > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts devised in language A to technical english. >> >> It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the >> BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an >> administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different >> nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a >> BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until >> your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a >> BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic >> and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of >> Bitcoin. >> >> On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 9:14 PM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> wrote: >> > >> > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him technically >> > useful >> > >> > I think one of the aim of the BIP process is to harmonize common mechanisms among Bitcoin clients of different langages breeds or at different layers (wallet / full-node). >> > Having someone among BIP editors with a proven track record of contributing to other full-node codebase beyond C++ can be valuable in that sense. >> > Especially for all matters related to compatibility and deployment. >> > >> > > For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a Core maintainer given the >> > > independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process >> > >> > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the highest privilege account will be able to >> > override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I think it's a valuable point. >> > >> > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts devised in language A to technical english. >> > >> > Best, >> > Antoine >> > >> > >> > Le vendredi 29 mars 2024 à 12:33:09 UTC, /dev /fd0 a écrit : >> >> >> >> Justification: >> >> >> >> 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical documentation. >> >> 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's good to have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. >> >> >> >> On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". >> >>> >> >>> Matt >> >>> >> >>> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >> >>> > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. >> >>> > >> >>> > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: >> >>> > >> >>> > - Kanzure >> >>> > - Ruben Somsen >> >>> > - Greg Tonoski >> >>> > - Jon Atack >> >>> > - Roasbeef >> >>> > - Seccour >> >>> > >> >>> > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook anyone. >> >>> > >> >>> > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: >> >>> > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through the >> >>> > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people know who >> >>> > > they should be thinking about. >> >>> > >> >>> > -- >> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development >> >>> > Mailing List" group. >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >> >>> > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. >> >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8fa1a55-644f-4cf1-b8c1-4fdef22d1869n%40googlegroups.com. >> >> >> >> -- >> Michael Folkson >> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com -- Michael Folkson Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-31 16:01 ` Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-01 20:14 ` Antoine Riard 2024-04-07 10:11 ` Ali Sherief 1 sibling, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-04-01 20:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Folkson; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 20420 bytes --] Hi Michael, Thanks for the thoughtful answer. > I repeat having the BIPs repo under a different GitHub organization > would *not* have resulted in a different outcome in the Taproot > activation params or avoided that particular conflict. If Core > maintainers had merged a BIPs PR or kicked Luke off as a BIPs editor > that would have been a different outcome. There are costs to moving > the BIPs repo to a different GitHub organization (existing links, > discoverability, two GitHub organizations to worry about rather than > one) and as long as Core maintainers don't overrule BIP editors in the > BIPs repo there are no clear upsides. Fair point, though I think it's more a one-time migration cost for long-term returns. I still believe we shall apply the principle of least privilege when we can. This blog article is a good one to meditate: https://laanwj.github.io/2016/05/06/hostility-scams-and-moving-forward.html > Just as you don't need to be a maintainer to provide high quality pull > request review in the Core repo you don't need to be a BIP editor to > provide high quality pull request review in the BIPs repo. There is > nothing to stop people who aren't BIP editors continuing to provide > review of your work in English and a BIPs repo in English only needs > BIP editors who are fluent in English. That's a fair point too, terminology / high-quality review can be provided by non-editors. The worthiness of having non-English editors it's up if we see this as an administrative task or editorial one in my opinion. > I think we'd agree we are somewhere in between these pure extremes and > I'd argue mostly towards the administrative task end. One of the > reasons I think Kanzure, RubenSomsen and Murch are good BIP editor > candidates is that they can also provide high quality pull request > review before potentially merging but unlike the Core repo where bad > ideas should never be merged a BIP editor will end up merging up pull > requests they think are bad ideas that they would never want merged > into Core. A BIP can get a BIP number and end up being rejected by > Core or the broader community for example. On the experience of the inheritance rule in bip125, I would say it's not so bad if there is a minimum of editorial checks. At least when the proposal starts to be "proposed" / "final". You don't need at first how standards are aging with time. It's not specific to BIP, we have this issue with the BOLTs which have been amended many times to make things more robust. I don't know if the BIP process should be more proactive "deprecating" / "obsolating" / "cleaning-up" standards like done by the IETF. (It's clearly another set of tasks far beyond the focus of this discussion...). > This seems even more bureaucratic to me. Different numbers to track, > more complexity. There is a BINANA repo [0] for Bitcoin Inquisition > for this kind of early experimentation for proposed consensus changes > that aren't advanced enough to be BIPs. That "fast-track" numbers assignment experiment might work with time. Let' see. > Personally I think it is fine as it is. We are discussing the > potential addition of high quality BIP editors as only having one > currently (Luke) is clearly not ideal. That will alleviate Luke as a > single bottleneck. I do think it is time for an update to the BIP > process (BIP 3) too so BIP editors have some guidance on how to treat > bad ideas (how bad are we talking!) and are comfortable merging pull > requests around attempted (successful or failed) soft fork > activations. Ultimately though just like with Core maintainers there > is going to be some personal judgment required especially during those > cases where there isn't clear community consensus either way. Hence > for those cases I'd be much more comfortable with say Kanzure, > RubenSomsen or Murch than someone we know very little about and hasn't > demonstrated a strong understanding of how Bitcoin works. On the contrary, the BIP process should clearly bound BIP editors personal judgement, especially at a time of lack of clear community consensus. If there is one lesson of consensus activation or policy changes over the last few years, it's better to "wait-and-proactively-build-more-consensus" rather than "force-through". Even if the "force-through" is coming from appointed editors or whatever, practice and respect of the process matters over titles and roles in my opinion. For sure, anyone who has already championed a change in Bitcoin has fallen short of impatience, myself included (e.g with mempoolfullrbf). Yet, it's good to remember that a bit of technical conservatism, over-reviewing and feedback collection is always welcome on the delicate changes. All that said, I said my opinion on the list of BIP candidates already and I have nothing more to say. I won't express myself further on this subject, too much code to write and review. Best, Antoine Le dim. 31 mars 2024 à 17:01, Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail•com> a écrit : > Hi Antoine > > Thanks for the challenge. I think we are going to end up disagreeing > on some things but perhaps the discussion is worth having. > > > Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot > activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. > Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate > security philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. > > I repeat having the BIPs repo under a different GitHub organization > would *not* have resulted in a different outcome in the Taproot > activation params or avoided that particular conflict. If Core > maintainers had merged a BIPs PR or kicked Luke off as a BIPs editor > that would have been a different outcome. There are costs to moving > the BIPs repo to a different GitHub organization (existing links, > discoverability, two GitHub organizations to worry about rather than > one) and as long as Core maintainers don't overrule BIP editors in the > BIPs repo there are no clear upsides. > > > No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality > and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when > the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. > I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts > have been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors > understanding multiple languages helps in quality redaction. > > Just as you don't need to be a maintainer to provide high quality pull > request review in the Core repo you don't need to be a BIP editor to > provide high quality pull request review in the BIPs repo. There is > nothing to stop people who aren't BIP editors continuing to provide > review of your work in English and a BIPs repo in English only needs > BIP editors who are fluent in English. > > > Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if > it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e > "high-quality, well-written standards"). > > I think we'd agree we are somewhere in between these pure extremes and > I'd argue mostly towards the administrative task end. One of the > reasons I think Kanzure, RubenSomsen and Murch are good BIP editor > candidates is that they can also provide high quality pull request > review before potentially merging but unlike the Core repo where bad > ideas should never be merged a BIP editor will end up merging up pull > requests they think are bad ideas that they would never want merged > into Core. A BIP can get a BIP number and end up being rejected by > Core or the broader community for example. > > > If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate > the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : > - assign temporary numbers for experimentation > - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion > - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment > > This seems even more bureaucratic to me. Different numbers to track, > more complexity. There is a BINANA repo [0] for Bitcoin Inquisition > for this kind of early experimentation for proposed consensus changes > that aren't advanced enough to be BIPs. > > > If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less > bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. > If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft > proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. > > Personally I think it is fine as it is. We are discussing the > potential addition of high quality BIP editors as only having one > currently (Luke) is clearly not ideal. That will alleviate Luke as a > single bottleneck. I do think it is time for an update to the BIP > process (BIP 3) too so BIP editors have some guidance on how to treat > bad ideas (how bad are we talking!) and are comfortable merging pull > requests around attempted (successful or failed) soft fork > activations. Ultimately though just like with Core maintainers there > is going to be some personal judgment required especially during those > cases where there isn't clear community consensus either way. Hence > for those cases I'd be much more comfortable with say Kanzure, > RubenSomsen or Murch than someone we know very little about and hasn't > demonstrated a strong understanding of how Bitcoin works. > > > PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, > it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. > > Perhaps we can leave discussion of my imperfect analogies to a > different forum :) Hopefully we can agree that this is a direction of > travel that we shouldn't be pursuing for the BIPs repo. > > [0]: https://github.com/bitcoin-inquisition/binana > > On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 8:01 PM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> > wrote: > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > > In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > > > BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > > > maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > > > him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > > > create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > > > repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > > > organization and everyone knows where it is located. > > > > Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot > activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. > > Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate security > philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. > > > > [0] > https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/12/11/joanna-rutkowska-black-hat-europe-2017/ > > > > > It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > > > BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > > > administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > > > nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > > > BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > > > your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > > > BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > > > and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > > > Bitcoin. > > > > No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality > and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when > the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. > > I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts have > been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors understanding > multiple languages helps in quality redaction. > > > > Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if > it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e > "high-quality, well-written standards"). > > > > If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate > the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : > > - assign temporary numbers for experimentation > > - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion > > - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment > > > > If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less > bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. > > If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft > proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. > > > > Best, > > Antoine > > > > PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, > it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. > > > > Le sam. 30 mars 2024 à 11:52, Michael Folkson <michaelfolkson@gmail•com> > a écrit : > >> > >> > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a > single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the > highest privilege account will be able to > >> override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP > >> editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're > >> raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own > >> GH repository I think it's a valuable point. > >> > >> In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > >> BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > >> maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > >> him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > >> create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > >> repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > >> organization and everyone knows where it is located. > >> > >> > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of > geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is > ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, > we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English > native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my > knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, > French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts > devised in language A to technical english. > >> > >> It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > >> BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > >> administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > >> nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > >> BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > >> your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > >> BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > >> and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > >> Bitcoin. > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 9:14 PM Antoine Riard <antoine.riard@gmail•com> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him > technically > >> > useful > >> > > >> > I think one of the aim of the BIP process is to harmonize common > mechanisms among Bitcoin clients of different langages breeds or at > different layers (wallet / full-node). > >> > Having someone among BIP editors with a proven track record of > contributing to other full-node codebase beyond C++ can be valuable in that > sense. > >> > Especially for all matters related to compatibility and deployment. > >> > > >> > > For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at > some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a > Core maintainer given the > >> > > independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process > >> > > >> > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a > single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the > highest privilege account will be able to > >> > override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP > editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the > issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I > think it's a valuable point. > >> > > >> > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of > geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is > ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, > we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English > native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my > knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, > French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts > devised in language A to technical english. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Antoine > >> > > >> > > >> > Le vendredi 29 mars 2024 à 12:33:09 UTC, /dev /fd0 a écrit : > >> >> > >> >> Justification: > >> >> > >> >> 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical > documentation. > >> >> 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's > good to have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. > >> >> > >> >> On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like > Bob!". > >> >>> > >> >>> Matt > >> >>> > >> >>> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > >> >>> > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > - Kanzure > >> >>> > - Ruben Somsen > >> >>> > - Greg Tonoski > >> >>> > - Jon Atack > >> >>> > - Roasbeef > >> >>> > - Seccour > >> >>> > > >> >>> > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook > anyone. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > >> >>> > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through > the > >> >>> > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people > know who > >> >>> > > they should be thinking about. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -- > >> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development > >> >>> > Mailing List" group. > >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to > >> >>> > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto: > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. > >> >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit > >> >>> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8fa1a55-644f-4cf1-b8c1-4fdef22d1869n%40googlegroups.com > . > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Folkson > >> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com > > > > -- > Michael Folkson > Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CALZpt%2BF%3DdUVn6bDLewjVVHGymhqYZgHQZ4yX%2BtfAPWx9gH_pzA%40mail.gmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 25097 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-31 16:01 ` Michael Folkson 2024-04-01 20:14 ` Antoine Riard @ 2024-04-07 10:11 ` Ali Sherief 1 sibling, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Ali Sherief @ 2024-04-07 10:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 16323 bytes --] > Just as you don't need to be a maintainer to provide high quality pull request review in the Core repo you don't need to be a BIP editor to provide high quality pull request review in the BIPs repo. There is nothing to stop people who aren't BIP editors continuing to provide review of your work in English and a BIPs repo in English only needs BIP editors who are fluent in English. Just thought I might pop in and make a comment about this. I think it's better to keep the main repository of BIPs in english, and then have a translations subdirectory for each language. Then you can have the BIPs translated on a volunteer basis, either with by pull requests or a platform like Transifex. But only have the english version as the authoritative reference. Although I am in favor of having additional maintainers in general - it would make it easier to collaboratively review drafts like BIP322. --- Ali On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 4:24:57 PM UTC Michael Folkson wrote: > Hi Antoine > > Thanks for the challenge. I think we are going to end up disagreeing > on some things but perhaps the discussion is worth having. > > > Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot > activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. > Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate > security philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. > > I repeat having the BIPs repo under a different GitHub organization > would *not* have resulted in a different outcome in the Taproot > activation params or avoided that particular conflict. If Core > maintainers had merged a BIPs PR or kicked Luke off as a BIPs editor > that would have been a different outcome. There are costs to moving > the BIPs repo to a different GitHub organization (existing links, > discoverability, two GitHub organizations to worry about rather than > one) and as long as Core maintainers don't overrule BIP editors in the > BIPs repo there are no clear upsides. > > > No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality > and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when > the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. > I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts > have been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors > understanding multiple languages helps in quality redaction. > > Just as you don't need to be a maintainer to provide high quality pull > request review in the Core repo you don't need to be a BIP editor to > provide high quality pull request review in the BIPs repo. There is > nothing to stop people who aren't BIP editors continuing to provide > review of your work in English and a BIPs repo in English only needs > BIP editors who are fluent in English. > > > Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if > it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e > "high-quality, well-written standards"). > > I think we'd agree we are somewhere in between these pure extremes and > I'd argue mostly towards the administrative task end. One of the > reasons I think Kanzure, RubenSomsen and Murch are good BIP editor > candidates is that they can also provide high quality pull request > review before potentially merging but unlike the Core repo where bad > ideas should never be merged a BIP editor will end up merging up pull > requests they think are bad ideas that they would never want merged > into Core. A BIP can get a BIP number and end up being rejected by > Core or the broader community for example. > > > If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate > the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : > - assign temporary numbers for experimentation > - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion > - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment > > This seems even more bureaucratic to me. Different numbers to track, > more complexity. There is a BINANA repo [0] for Bitcoin Inquisition > for this kind of early experimentation for proposed consensus changes > that aren't advanced enough to be BIPs. > > > If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less > bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. > If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft > proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. > > Personally I think it is fine as it is. We are discussing the > potential addition of high quality BIP editors as only having one > currently (Luke) is clearly not ideal. That will alleviate Luke as a > single bottleneck. I do think it is time for an update to the BIP > process (BIP 3) too so BIP editors have some guidance on how to treat > bad ideas (how bad are we talking!) and are comfortable merging pull > requests around attempted (successful or failed) soft fork > activations. Ultimately though just like with Core maintainers there > is going to be some personal judgment required especially during those > cases where there isn't clear community consensus either way. Hence > for those cases I'd be much more comfortable with say Kanzure, > RubenSomsen or Murch than someone we know very little about and hasn't > demonstrated a strong understanding of how Bitcoin works. > > > PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, > it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. > > Perhaps we can leave discussion of my imperfect analogies to a > different forum :) Hopefully we can agree that this is a direction of > travel that we shouldn't be pursuing for the BIPs repo. > > [0]: https://github.com/bitcoin-inquisition/binana > > On Sat, Mar 30, 2024 at 8:01 PM Antoine Riard <antoin...@gmail•com> wrote: > > > > Hi Michael, > > > > > In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > > > BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > > > maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > > > him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > > > create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > > > repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > > > organization and everyone knows where it is located. > > > > Indeed, avoiding new conflicts like we have seen with Luke with Taproot > activation params is a good reason to separate repositories in my opinion. > > Beyond, "security through distrusting" [0] is a very legitimate security > philosophy including for communication space infrastructure. > > > > [0] > https://www.qubes-os.org/news/2017/12/11/joanna-rutkowska-black-hat-europe-2017/ > > > > > It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > > > BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > > > administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > > > nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > > > BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > > > your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > > > BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > > > and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > > > Bitcoin. > > > > No, I wish to ensure that if the aim of the BIP is ensuring high-quality > and readability of standards those ones are well-written, including when > the original standard is contributed by someone non-native. > > I can only remember numerous times when my english technical texts have > been kindly corrected by other contributors. Having editors understanding > multiple languages helps in quality redaction. > > > > Beyond, from reading conversations it sounds there is a disagreement if > it's an administrative task (i.e "assigning numbers") or editorial one (i.e > "high-quality, well-written standards"). > > > > If we wish to make things less bureaucratic, we might actually separate > the two tasks with different groups of BIP process maintainers : > > - assign temporary numbers for experimentation > > - wait for more-or-less finalized drafts written in a quality fashion > > - assign final numbers for standard candidate deployment > > > > If you see other ways to dissociate the roles and make things less > bureaucratic ? E.g having people only in charge of triage. > > If I remember correctly the IETF does not assign RFC numbers for draft > proposals, and you generally have years of experimentation. > > > > Best, > > Antoine > > > > PS: By the way, even at the United Nations, unanimity is not the rule, > it's two-third of the general assembly. I think your analogy is not valid. > > > > Le sam. 30 mars 2024 à 11:52, Michael Folkson <michael...@gmail•com> a > écrit : > >> > >> > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a > single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the > highest privilege account will be able to > >> override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP > >> editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're > >> raising the issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own > >> GH repository I think it's a valuable point. > >> > >> In the past there have been disagreements between Core maintainers and > >> BIP editors (e.g. Luke with Taproot activation params) and those Core > >> maintainers haven't merged pull requests in the BIPs repo or removed > >> him as a BIP editor. As long as that continues it isn't necessary to > >> create a new GitHub organization for the BIPs repo. They are separate > >> repos with different maintainers/editors but under the same > >> organization and everyone knows where it is located. > >> > >> > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of > geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is > ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, > we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English > native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my > knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, > French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts > devised in language A to technical english. > >> > >> It seems like you want to create some kind of United Nations for the > >> BIP process. As I said previously this is almost entirely an > >> administrative task. Going to a committee of 10 people with different > >> nationalities and languages to decide whether something should get a > >> BIP number is absurd. If you think Luke is slow to respond wait until > >> your United Nations of the BIP process has to all agree to assign a > >> BIP number. Please don't try to make this unnecessarily bureaucratic > >> and political for no reason. There's enough of that outside of > >> Bitcoin. > >> > >> On Fri, Mar 29, 2024 at 9:14 PM Antoine Riard <antoin...@gmail•com> > wrote: > >> > > >> > > Roasbeef's work on alternative clients and lightning make him > technically > >> > useful > >> > > >> > I think one of the aim of the BIP process is to harmonize common > mechanisms among Bitcoin clients of different langages breeds or at > different layers (wallet / full-node). > >> > Having someone among BIP editors with a proven track record of > contributing to other full-node codebase beyond C++ can be valuable in that > sense. > >> > Especially for all matters related to compatibility and deployment. > >> > > >> > > For example I think Jon Atack would make a great Core maintainer at > some point in the future and I'm not sure a BIP editor should also be a > Core maintainer given the > >> > > independence sometimes required between Core and the BIP process > >> > > >> > In a world where both Core and BIP repository are living under a > single Github organization, I don't think in matters that much as the > highest privilege account will be able to > >> > override any BIP merging decision, or even remove on the flight BIP > editors rights in case of conflicts or controversies. If you're raising the > issue that the BIP repository should be moved to its own GH repository I > think it's a valuable point. > >> > > >> > Beyond, I still think we should ensure we have a wider crowd of > geographically and culturally diverse BIP editors. As if the role is > ensuring high-quality and readability of the terminology of the standards, > we might have highly-skilled technical BIP champions which are not English > native. With the current set of proposed BIP editors, to the best of my > knowledge, at least we have few langages spoken by the candidates: Dutch, > French, German, Spanish. This can be very helpful to translate concepts > devised in language A to technical english. > >> > > >> > Best, > >> > Antoine > >> > > >> > > >> > Le vendredi 29 mars 2024 à 12:33:09 UTC, /dev /fd0 a écrit : > >> >> > >> >> Justification: > >> >> > >> >> 1. Jon Atack: Good at avoiding controversies and technical > documentation. > >> >> 2. Roasbeef: Since BIPs are not just related to bitcoin core, it's > good to have btcd maintainer as a BIP editor. > >> >> > >> >> On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 1:47:41 AM UTC+5:30 Matt Corallo wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like > Bob!". > >> >>> > >> >>> Matt > >> >>> > >> >>> On 3/28/24 12:09 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > >> >>> > I support Jon Atack and Roasbeef from this list. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 6:57:53 PM UTC+5:30 Murch wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > I just went through the thread, previously mentioned were: > >> >>> > > >> >>> > - Kanzure > >> >>> > - Ruben Somsen > >> >>> > - Greg Tonoski > >> >>> > - Jon Atack > >> >>> > - Roasbeef > >> >>> > - Seccour > >> >>> > > >> >>> > And Matt just suggested me for the role. Hope I didn’t overlook > anyone. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On 3/27/24 19:39, John C. Vernaleo wrote: > >> >>> > > That said, I would find it helpful if someone could go through > the > >> >>> > > thread and list all the people who've been proposed so people > know who > >> >>> > > they should be thinking about. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > -- > >> >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development > >> >>> > Mailing List" group. > >> >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to > >> >>> > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com <mailto: > bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. > >> >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit > >> >>> > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com. > >> > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f8fa1a55-644f-4cf1-b8c1-4fdef22d1869n%40googlegroups.com > . > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Michael Folkson > >> Personal email: michael...@gmail•com > > > > -- > Michael Folkson > Personal email: michael...@gmail•com > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-03-28 20:04 ` Matt Corallo ` (2 preceding siblings ...) 2024-03-29 5:24 ` /dev /fd0 @ 2024-04-01 21:13 ` David A. Harding 2024-04-01 23:55 ` /dev /fd0 ` (2 more replies) 3 siblings, 3 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: David A. Harding @ 2024-04-01 21:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Corallo; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], /dev/fd0[5][7], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] - Michael Folkson* Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates familiarity with the process. Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. -Dave [1] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ [2] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ [3] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ [4] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ [5] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ [6] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ [7] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ [8] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ [10] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ [12] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ [13] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ [14] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ [15] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ [16] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ [17] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-01 21:13 ` David A. Harding @ 2024-04-01 23:55 ` /dev /fd0 2024-04-02 0:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-02 8:18 ` Michael Folkson 2024-04-02 14:24 ` nvk 2 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: /dev /fd0 @ 2024-04-01 23:55 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7654 bytes --] I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss some things about the process itself: 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please open a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here." If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors. 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs? 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere like bitcoin core? 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation do we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the process to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work? /dev/fd0 floppy disk guy On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54 PM UTC David A. Harding wrote: > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > /dev/fd0[5][7], > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], > Ava Chow[14] > > - Michael Folkson* > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates > familiarity with the process. > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > -Dave > > [1] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > [2] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > [3] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > [4] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > [5] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > [6] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > [7] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > [8] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > [10] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > [12] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > [13] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > [14] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > [15] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > [16] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > [17] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-01 23:55 ` /dev /fd0 @ 2024-04-02 0:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-02 13:49 ` /dev /fd0 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-02 0:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss some > things about the process itself: > > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the > bitcoin-dev@lists•linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please open > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here." > > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors. If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is strictly enforced anyways. Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there. The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than what already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the repo is not at the whim of a single person. > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs? Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere > like bitcoin core? I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's just like any other repo on GitHub. > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation do > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the process > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work? The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with the root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is discussion about those people, and eventually some are added. As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether or not to remove them. There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is only done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity that it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came out, and were only returned several months later once verified communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. Ava > > /dev/fd0 > floppy disk guy > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54 PM UTC David A. Harding wrote: > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like > Bob!". > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > /dev/fd0[5][7], > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], > Ava Chow[14] > > - Michael Folkson* > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > far-along > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > demonstrates > familiarity with the process. > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > -Dave > > [1] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > [2] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > [3] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > [4] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > [5] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > [6] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > [7] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > [8] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > [10] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > [12] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > [13] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > [14] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > [15] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > [16] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > [17] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/f14cf0de-20f2-4786-bb92-d686a73c1218%40achow101.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-02 0:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-02 13:49 ` /dev /fd0 2024-04-02 14:28 ` Luke Dashjr 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: /dev /fd0 @ 2024-04-02 13:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 13946 bytes --] > Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on > literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't > actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate recently and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign numbers to some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP should be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be followed by new BIP editors. > For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - > all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came > out, and were only returned several months later once verified > communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his > GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of this. [0]: https://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280 /dev/fd0 floppy disk guy On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16 AM UTC Ava Chow wrote: > > > On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: > > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss some > > things about the process itself: > > > > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to > > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the > > bitco...@lists•linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a > > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please open > > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here." > > > > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor > > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they > > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by > > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors. > > If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list > first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors > wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is > strictly enforced anyways. > > Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or > issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there. > The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they > could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than what > already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better > because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the > repo is not at the whim of a single person. > > > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs? > > Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on > literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't > actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. > > > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere > > like bitcoin core? > > I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably > there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's > just like any other repo on GitHub. > > > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation do > > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the process > > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work? > > The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually > active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is > presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write > BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with the > root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The > process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is > discussion about those people, and eventually some are added. > > As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so > the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a > similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising > a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other > place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether > or not to remove them. > > There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may > take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is only > done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something > malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity that > it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - > all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came > out, and were only returned several months later once verified > communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his > GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. > > Ava > > > > > /dev/fd0 > > floppy disk guy > > > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54 PM UTC David A. Harding wrote: > > > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like > > Bob!". > > > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be > > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > > Black[11], > > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] > > > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael > > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > > /dev/fd0[5][7], > > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] > > > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John > > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], > > Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Michael Folkson* > > > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev > > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine > > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: > > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a > > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > > far-along > > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I > > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > > demonstrates > > familiarity with the process. > > > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully > > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification > > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft > > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 > > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed > > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him > > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, > > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > > > -Dave > > > > [1] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > > > > [2] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > > > > [3] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > > > > [4] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > > > > [5] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > > > > [6] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > > > > [7] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > > > > [8] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > > > > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> > > [10] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > > > > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > [12] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > > > > [13] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > > > > [14] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > > > > [15] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > > > > [16] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > > > > [17] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/16a728e9-e987-4e7b-bace-2629143d173fn%40googlegroups.com. [-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 27598 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-02 13:49 ` /dev /fd0 @ 2024-04-02 14:28 ` Luke Dashjr 2024-04-02 15:13 ` Gloria Zhao 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Luke Dashjr @ 2024-04-02 14:28 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev, /dev /fd0, Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 15441 bytes --] No, there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with regard to more BIP editors is that I don't have time to keep up with it by myself. If your goal is anything else, please sit this discussion out (aside from perhaps reasonable objections to new editors). BIP number assignments are trivial and not a concern. It seems there's an attempt to take advantage of the need for more BIP editors to change or bypass the BIP process without proper procedures followed. While there may be arguments for improving the BIP process, that is unrelated and would need to go through a BIP, not simply fiat of a new editor. Any potential new editor will need to follow the BIP process as it currently is defined until such a new BIP is accepted. Luke On April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 <alicexbtong@gmail•com> wrote: >> Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >> literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't >> actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. > >Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate recently >and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign numbers to >some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP should >be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be followed >by new BIP editors. > >> For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >> all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came >> out, and were only returned several months later once verified >> communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >> GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. > >Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of this. > >[0]: https://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280 > >/dev/fd0 >floppy disk guy > >On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16 AM UTC Ava Chow wrote: > >> >> >> On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >> > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss some >> > things about the process itself: >> > >> > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to >> > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the >> > bitco...@lists•linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a >> > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please open >> > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here." >> > >> > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor >> > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they >> > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by >> > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors. >> >> If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list >> first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors >> wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is >> strictly enforced anyways. >> >> Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or >> issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there. >> The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they >> could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than what >> already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better >> because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the >> repo is not at the whim of a single person. >> >> > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs? >> >> Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >> literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't >> actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. >> >> > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere >> > like bitcoin core? >> >> I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably >> there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's >> just like any other repo on GitHub. >> >> > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation do >> > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the process >> > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work? >> >> The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually >> active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is >> presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write >> BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with the >> root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The >> process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is >> discussion about those people, and eventually some are added. >> >> As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so >> the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a >> similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising >> a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other >> place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether >> or not to remove them. >> >> There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may >> take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is only >> done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something >> malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity that >> it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >> all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came >> out, and were only returned several months later once verified >> communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >> GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. >> >> Ava >> >> > >> > /dev/fd0 >> > floppy disk guy >> > >> > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54 PM UTC David A. Harding wrote: >> > >> > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >> > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like >> > Bob!". >> > >> > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be >> > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >> > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >> > >> > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], >> > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >> > Black[11], >> > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] >> > >> > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael >> > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >> > Carvalho[16] >> > >> > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >> > /dev/fd0[5][7], >> > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] >> > >> > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John >> > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >> > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >> > >> > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >> > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], >> > Ava Chow[14] >> > >> > - Michael Folkson* >> > >> > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev >> > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine >> > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >> > >> > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >> > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: >> > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >> > >> > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >> > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >> > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >> > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >> > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >> > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >> > >> > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a >> > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are >> > far-along >> > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I >> > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >> > demonstrates >> > familiarity with the process. >> > >> > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >> > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully >> > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification >> > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >> > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >> > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft >> > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 >> > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed >> > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >> > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >> > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him >> > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, >> > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >> > >> > -Dave >> > >> > [1] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> >> > >> > [2] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> >> > >> > [3] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> >> > >> > [4] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> >> > >> > [5] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> >> > >> > [6] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> >> > >> > [7] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> >> > >> > [8] >> > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >> < >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> >> > >> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> >> > [10] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> >> > >> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >> > [12] >> > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >> < >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> >> > >> > [13] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> >> > >> > [14] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> >> > >> > [15] >> > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >> < >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >> > >> > [16] >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> >> > >> > [17] >> > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >> < >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> >> > >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-02 14:28 ` Luke Dashjr @ 2024-04-02 15:13 ` Gloria Zhao 2024-04-02 15:39 ` Luke Dashjr 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Gloria Zhao @ 2024-04-02 15:13 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 16472 bytes --] > If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this > decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any > candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any > candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new > editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th). Thanks, ACK this timeline for moving forward. Assuming they are willing, I am in favor of adding Murch, Ruben, and Kanzure as BIP editors. They have all demonstrated through years of experience contributing to / moderating {the mailing list, stack exchange, Optech} that they have the technical expertise, skills in technical documentation, and track record of good judgement appropriate for this role. Best, Gloria On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 3:30:58 PM UTC+1 Luke Dashjr wrote: > No, there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with regard to more > BIP editors is that I don't have time to keep up with it by myself. If your > goal is anything else, please sit this discussion out (aside from perhaps > reasonable objections to new editors). BIP number assignments are trivial > and not a concern. > > It seems there's an attempt to take advantage of the need for more BIP > editors to change or bypass the BIP process without proper procedures > followed. While there may be arguments for improving the BIP process, that > is unrelated and would need to go through a BIP, not simply fiat of a new > editor. Any potential new editor will need to follow the BIP process as it > currently is defined until such a new BIP is accepted. > > Luke > > > On April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 <alice...@gmail•com> wrote: > >> > Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >> > literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't >> > actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. >> >> Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate recently >> and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign numbers to >> some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP should >> be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be followed >> by new BIP editors. >> >> > For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >> > all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came >> > out, and were only returned several months later once verified >> > communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >> > GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. >> >> Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of this. >> >> [0]: https://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280 >> >> /dev/fd0 >> floppy disk guy >> >> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16 AM UTC Ava Chow wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >>> > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss some >>> > things about the process itself: >>> > >>> > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to >>> > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the >>> > bitco...@lists•linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a >>> > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please >>> open >>> > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here." >>> > >>> > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor >>> > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they >>> > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by >>> > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors. >>> >>> If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list >>> first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors >>> wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is >>> strictly enforced anyways. >>> >>> Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or >>> issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there. >>> The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they >>> could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than what >>> already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better >>> because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the >>> repo is not at the whim of a single person. >>> >>> > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs? >>> >>> Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >>> literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't >>> actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. >>> >>> > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere >>> > like bitcoin core? >>> >>> I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably >>> there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's >>> just like any other repo on GitHub. >>> >>> > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation >>> do >>> > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the >>> process >>> > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work? >>> >>> The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually >>> active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is >>> presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write >>> BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with the >>> root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The >>> process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is >>> discussion about those people, and eventually some are added. >>> >>> As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so >>> the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a >>> similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising >>> a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other >>> place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether >>> or not to remove them. >>> >>> There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may >>> take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is only >>> done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something >>> malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity that >>> it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >>> all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came >>> out, and were only returned several months later once verified >>> communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >>> GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. >>> >>> Ava >>> >>> > >>> > /dev/fd0 >>> > floppy disk guy >>> > >>> > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54 PM UTC David A. Harding wrote: >>> > >>> > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>> > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like >>> > Bob!". >>> > >>> > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be >>> > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >>> > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >>> > >>> > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>> Stewart[3], >>> > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >>> > Black[11], >>> > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] >>> > >>> > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael >>> > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>> > Carvalho[16] >>> > >>> > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >>> > /dev/fd0[5][7], >>> > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] >>> > >>> > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John >>> > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >>> > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>> > >>> > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >>> > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], >>> > Ava Chow[14] >>> > >>> > - Michael Folkson* >>> > >>> > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev >>> > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine >>> > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>> > >>> > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >>> > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: >>> > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >>> > >>> > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>> > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>> > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>> > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>> > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>> > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>> > >>> > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a >>> > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are >>> > far-along >>> > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). >>> I >>> > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>> > demonstrates >>> > familiarity with the process. >>> > >>> > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >>> > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully >>> > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification >>> > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >>> > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >>> > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft >>> > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 >>> > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed >>> > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>> > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >>> > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him >>> > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already >>> doing, >>> > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>> > >>> > -Dave >>> > >>> > [1] >>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> >>> >>> > [2] >>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> >>> >>> > [3] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> >>> >>> > [4] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> >>> >>> > [5] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> >>> >>> > [6] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> >>> >>> > [7] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> >>> >>> > [8] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>> >>> >>> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> >>> > [10] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>> >>> >>> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >>> > [12] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>> >>> >>> > [13] >>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> >>> >>> > [14] >>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>> >>> >>> > [15] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> >>> >>> > [16] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>> >>> >>> > [17] >>> > >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>> >>> >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-02 15:13 ` Gloria Zhao @ 2024-04-02 15:39 ` Luke Dashjr 2024-04-03 15:03 ` Murch 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Luke Dashjr @ 2024-04-02 15:39 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev, Gloria Zhao, Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 17586 bytes --] On the timeline, there has already been a very reasonable objection raised by Antoine. I'm also unlikely to be available around that time (and through the weekend) to actually do it. So it'll need to be next week at the earliest, but I don't see a problem with closer to May if that's important to some. Luke On April 2, 2024 9:13:46 AM CST, Gloria Zhao <gloria@brink•dev> wrote: >> If we are all just in a holding pattern, perhaps we could timebox this >> decision process: how about we invite arguments for and against any >> candidates in this thread until next Friday EOD (April 5th). If any >> candidates find broad support, those candidates could be added as new >> editors to the repository on the following Monday (April 8th). > >Thanks, ACK this timeline for moving forward. > >Assuming they are willing, I am in favor of adding Murch, Ruben, and >Kanzure as BIP editors. They have all demonstrated through years of >experience contributing to / moderating {the mailing list, stack exchange, >Optech} that they have the technical expertise, skills in technical >documentation, and track record of good judgement appropriate for this role. > >Best, >Gloria > >On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 3:30:58 PM UTC+1 Luke Dashjr wrote: > >> No, there was no such refusal. The ONLY issue at hand with regard to more >> BIP editors is that I don't have time to keep up with it by myself. If your >> goal is anything else, please sit this discussion out (aside from perhaps >> reasonable objections to new editors). BIP number assignments are trivial >> and not a concern. >> >> It seems there's an attempt to take advantage of the need for more BIP >> editors to change or bypass the BIP process without proper procedures >> followed. While there may be arguments for improving the BIP process, that >> is unrelated and would need to go through a BIP, not simply fiat of a new >> editor. Any potential new editor will need to follow the BIP process as it >> currently is defined until such a new BIP is accepted. >> >> Luke >> >> >> On April 2, 2024 7:49:22 AM CST, /dev /fd0 <alice...@gmail•com> wrote: >> >>> > Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >>> > literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't >>> > actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. >>> >>> Process followed to assign the number started this whole debate recently >>> and creation of BINANA. Previous BIP editor refused to assign numbers to >>> some BIPs. Kanzure had [tweeted][0] asking users on twitter if a BIP should >>> be assigned number. So I am curious what process exactly would be followed >>> by new BIP editors. >>> >>> > For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >>> > all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came >>> > out, and were only returned several months later once verified >>> > communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >>> > GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. >>> >>> Thanks for sharing. I wasn't aware of this. >>> >>> [0]: https://x.com/kanzure/status/1752663903715168280 >>> >>> /dev/fd0 >>> floppy disk guy >>> >>> On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 8:22:16 AM UTC Ava Chow wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 04/01/2024 07:55 PM, /dev /fd0 wrote: >>>> > I think before we decide new BIP editors its important to discuss some >>>> > things about the process itself: >>>> > >>>> > 1. Quoting first paragraph from BIPs repo README: "People wishing to >>>> > submit BIPs, first should propose their idea or document to the >>>> > bitco...@lists•linuxfoundation.org mailing list (do not assign a >>>> > number - read BIP 2 for the full process). After discussion, please >>>> open >>>> > a PR. After copy-editing and acceptance, it will be published here." >>>> > >>>> > If Kanzure and Ruben are BIP editors, does it mean they can censor >>>> > someone from submitting BIPs? This question makes sense because they >>>> > will have control over the whole improvement process for "bitcoin" by >>>> > being moderators for mailing list and BIP editors. >>>> >>>> If the only requirement is that a BIP shows up on the mailing list >>>> first, then they can already censor them. Having them as BIP editors >>>> wouldn't change that. It's not clear to me that this requirement is >>>> strictly enforced anyways. >>>> >>>> Furthermore, they would not have the permissions to delete PRs or >>>> issues, so once a PR is opened, even if closed, would still be there. >>>> The status quo w.r.t that would not be any different. At worst, they >>>> could refuse to assign a BIP a number, but that's no different than what >>>> already happens today. In fact, the situation would likely be better >>>> because there would be multiple BIP editors and so what goes into the >>>> repo is not at the whim of a single person. >>>> >>>> > 2. How are numbers going to be assigned to BIPs? >>>> >>>> Does it matter? The number that a proposal gets has no impact on >>>> literally anything else. They could do it sequentially and it wouldn't >>>> actually make a difference as long as there are no collisions. >>>> >>>> > 3. Will there be copy of BIPs and pull requests maintained elsewhere >>>> > like bitcoin core? >>>> >>>> I'm not sure why this is relevant to this discussion, but presumably >>>> there already are, and if there aren't, you can do it yourself. It's >>>> just like any other repo on GitHub. >>>> >>>> > 4. What are the expectations from new BIP editors? In what situation >>>> do >>>> > we look for next BIP editors or in other words, what will be the >>>> process >>>> > to remove an editor if lot of people are unhappy with their work? >>>> >>>> The expectations are as outlined to BIP 2, and that they are actually >>>> active. The situation for looking for new BIP editors in the future is >>>> presumably similar to the one we are in currently - people who write >>>> BIPs are frustrated with things taking a long time to be merged with the >>>> root cause being slow response times from the current editor. The >>>> process would likely be very similar: names are proposed, there is >>>> discussion about those people, and eventually some are added. >>>> >>>> As for removal, this has not been something we've ever done before, so >>>> the process for this is undefined. However, it would presumably be a >>>> similar procedure as for adding someone. It begins with someone raising >>>> a complaint about one of the editors on this mailing list or some other >>>> place a discussion, and a community discussion commences about whether >>>> or not to remove them. >>>> >>>> There are certainly situations where one of the GitHub org owners may >>>> take emergency action and remove a maintainer's privileges. This is only >>>> done when there is a clear danger than the account may do something >>>> malicious, and the privileges would be returned if there is clarity that >>>> it is safe to do so. For example, this was done when Luke was hacked - >>>> all of his permissions were immediately removed as soon as the news came >>>> out, and were only returned several months later once verified >>>> communication with Luke were established and he was certain that his >>>> GitHub account was no longer (at risk of being) compromised. >>>> >>>> Ava >>>> >>>> > >>>> > /dev/fd0 >>>> > floppy disk guy >>>> > >>>> > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 9:16:54 PM UTC David A. Harding wrote: >>>> > >>>> > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>>> > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like >>>> > Bob!". >>>> > >>>> > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be >>>> > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >>>> > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >>>> > >>>> > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>>> Stewart[3], >>>> > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >>>> > Black[11], >>>> > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] >>>> > >>>> > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael >>>> > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>>> > Carvalho[16] >>>> > >>>> > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >>>> > /dev/fd0[5][7], >>>> > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] >>>> > >>>> > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John >>>> > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >>>> > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>>> > >>>> > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >>>> > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], >>>> > Ava Chow[14] >>>> > >>>> > - Michael Folkson* >>>> > >>>> > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev >>>> > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine >>>> > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>>> > >>>> > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >>>> > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: >>>> > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >>>> > >>>> > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>>> > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>>> > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>>> > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>>> > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>>> > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>>> > >>>> > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a >>>> > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are >>>> > far-along >>>> > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). >>>> I >>>> > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>>> > demonstrates >>>> > familiarity with the process. >>>> > >>>> > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >>>> > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully >>>> > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification >>>> > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >>>> > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >>>> > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft >>>> > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 >>>> > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed >>>> > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>>> > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >>>> > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him >>>> > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already >>>> doing, >>>> > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>>> > >>>> > -Dave >>>> > >>>> > [1] >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [2] >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> >>>> >>>> > [3] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [4] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [5] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [6] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [7] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [8] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> >>>> > [10] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >>>> > [12] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [13] >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> >>>> >>>> > [14] >>>> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >>>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [15] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> >>>> >>>> > [16] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>> >>>> >>>> > [17] >>>> > >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> < >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>> >>>> >>>> > >>>> > -- >>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> > an email to bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com >>>> > <mailto:bitcoindev+...@googlegroups•com>. >>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> > >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com >>>> < >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/cbb0b74f-c60b-4c8a-9e97-9b1c0e0eb047n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> >>>> > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. >To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a18850ec-4659-4683-8e50-9758a7f431can%40googlegroups.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-02 15:39 ` Luke Dashjr @ 2024-04-03 15:03 ` Murch 0 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Murch @ 2024-04-03 15:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev The BIP repository situation has been an on-going source of frustration for an extended period of time, leading e.g. to Kalle being added as an additional editor three years ago, and AJ created the BINANA repository almost three months ago. Hence, I am not in a particular rush or invested in the timeline of my casual proposal. My main goal was to restart progress on the topic. However, I would prefer if objections were accompanied by a concrete actionable alternatives as we will otherwise just get bogged down again. Given the concerns with the timeline, I propose that we extend the timebox by another two weeks to solicit comments on editor candidates until the 19th of April and aim to add more editors around the 22nd. These dates would put the end of the comment period well after the Core Dev meeting. If you have other concrete reasons why this timeline is unreasonable, please state your reasons _and provide an alternative proposal. I agree though, that the discussion of adding additional editors and the discussion of changing the process are two separate topics and should not be intermingled. Best, Murch On 4/2/24 11:39, Luke Dashjr wrote: > On the timeline, there has already been a very reasonable objection raised by Antoine. I'm also unlikely to be available around that time (and through the weekend) to actually do it. So it'll need to be next week at the earliest, but I don't see a problem with closer to May if that's important to some. > > Luke -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/c304a456-b15f-4544-8f86-d4a17fb0aa8c%40murch.one. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-01 21:13 ` David A. Harding 2024-04-01 23:55 ` /dev /fd0 @ 2024-04-02 8:18 ` Michael Folkson 2024-04-02 14:24 ` nvk 2 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-02 8:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: David A. Harding; +Cc: Matt Corallo, Bitcoin Development Mailing List > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates familiarity with the process. Thanks for this analysis Dave. A minor correction, I've also co-authored a merged BIP (BIP 343) though it was a rather short BIP and Taproot activation related. On Mon, Apr 1, 2024 at 10:16 PM David A. Harding <dave@dtrt•org> wrote: > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > /dev/fd0[5][7], > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], > Ava Chow[14] > > - Michael Folkson* > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates > familiarity with the process. > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > -Dave > > [1] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > [2] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > [3] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > [4] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > [5] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > [6] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > [7] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > [8] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > [10] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > [12] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > [13] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > [14] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > [15] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > [16] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > [17] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/77554baa9330c57361c65c1fc85557f1%40dtrt.org. -- Michael Folkson Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-01 21:13 ` David A. Harding 2024-04-01 23:55 ` /dev /fd0 2024-04-02 8:18 ` Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-02 14:24 ` nvk 2024-04-11 14:22 ` Sergi Delgado Segura 2 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: nvk @ 2024-04-02 14:24 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7431 bytes --] -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256 +1 for Kanzure RubenSomsen Seccour Jon Atack Roasbeef I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority. BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. I'd like to return to that. - - NVK (temp gmail account) -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmKAukUZni40sZANzHN2toLREzdoFAmYMFPwACgkQHN2toLRE zdqjqQgAsCLjBbVF505RJvIo2ZZqjWDjc0kn3pCs2+d9BHJNbd104CHUlb/TlbGL +P1yTDTP9IJoDH833SaLlohtVFBUQbWZmBSav/rSi/4ricXg8XXXDoYb+wPgcdSo 243qh43kjMzL6gU6f4aslCS1fHVL/LDUHiRdarLekKfPsWWEE1BR+qdk+WUJiEkU 09pcZsGG+6osVDP3/oTCkkMH9/vzY+l8zwy8I3rtMByjlhk90t37YUi1dn5vrvhF cSFkys+Um15Wnngb8W1yi4i/gfFYvHapn7KA1WaoeivbMtiJVL8XVWQiWf3Uzy+s w3Tl+sQ3S69fIajI9StfO60Qe5dSJQ== =w5DC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > /dev/fd0[5][7], > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], > Ava Chow[14] > > - Michael Folkson* > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates > familiarity with the process. > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > -Dave > > [1] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > [2] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > [3] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > [4] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > [5] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > [6] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > [7] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > [8] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > [10] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > [12] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > [13] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > [14] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > [15] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > [16] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > [17] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-02 14:24 ` nvk @ 2024-04-11 14:22 ` Sergi Delgado Segura 2024-04-15 17:50 ` Matt Corallo 2024-04-16 17:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 0 siblings, 2 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Sergi Delgado Segura @ 2024-04-11 14:22 UTC (permalink / raw) To: nvk; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 9209 bytes --] > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority. I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from their expectations. I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track record in the space On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com> wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA256 > > +1 for > Kanzure > RubenSomsen > Seccour > Jon Atack > Roasbeef > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so personal > preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority. > > BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > I'd like to return to that. > > - - NVK (temp gmail account) > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEmKAukUZni40sZANzHN2toLREzdoFAmYMFPwACgkQHN2toLRE > zdqjqQgAsCLjBbVF505RJvIo2ZZqjWDjc0kn3pCs2+d9BHJNbd104CHUlb/TlbGL > +P1yTDTP9IJoDH833SaLlohtVFBUQbWZmBSav/rSi/4ricXg8XXXDoYb+wPgcdSo > 243qh43kjMzL6gU6f4aslCS1fHVL/LDUHiRdarLekKfPsWWEE1BR+qdk+WUJiEkU > 09pcZsGG+6osVDP3/oTCkkMH9/vzY+l8zwy8I3rtMByjlhk90t37YUi1dn5vrvhF > cSFkys+Um15Wnngb8W1yi4i/gfFYvHapn7KA1WaoeivbMtiJVL8XVWQiWf3Uzy+s > w3Tl+sQ3S69fIajI9StfO60Qe5dSJQ== > =w5DC > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". >> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be >> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >> Black[11], >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] >> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >> Carvalho[16] >> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >> /dev/fd0[5][7], >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] >> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], >> Ava Chow[14] >> >> - Michael Folkson* >> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates >> familiarity with the process. >> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >> multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >> >> -Dave >> >> [1] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> >> [2] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> >> [3] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> >> [4] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> >> [5] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> >> [6] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> >> [7] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> >> [8] >> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> >> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> >> [10] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> >> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >> [12] >> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> >> [13] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> >> [14] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> >> [15] >> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >> [16] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> >> [17] >> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Sergi. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com. [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 11454 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-11 14:22 ` Sergi Delgado Segura @ 2024-04-15 17:50 ` Matt Corallo 2024-04-16 12:34 ` Tim Ruffing 2024-04-16 17:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 1 sibling, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Matt Corallo @ 2024-04-15 17:50 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Sergi Delgado Segura, nvk; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List Strongly agree with Sergi here, I'd suggest 2-3 BIP editors who are actually responsible for things is more useful than 5 BIP editors where no one is responsible for anything. Again, I'm not convinced dumping this on more people is useful, folks like Roasbeef are great but clearly don't have time to keep up with yet more things, and not sure why folks are on the list here who haven't been active on the Bitcoin-dev ML and in BIPs for many years (eg no idea who Seccour is). Matt On 4/11/24 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so personal preferences are easily > ignored and overwritten by the group majority. > > I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having too many editors may result in > a tragedy of the commons, in which people just commit to the job because many others do, and they do > not end up doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not only make the > process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up doing the job, given their time commitment > ends up being too far from their expectations. > > I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and gives us leeway in case the > workload ends up being excessive and we need to add more people (plus discourage people from joining > and slacking off). > > I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. I'd personally vouch for Murch, > Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track record in the space > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: > > +1 for > Kanzure > RubenSomsen > Seccour > Jon Atack > Roasbeef > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so personal preferences are > easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority. > > BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > I'd like to return to that. > > - NVK (temp gmail account) > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I like Bob!". > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears to be > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John Carvalho[16] > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], Michael > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > /dev/fd0[5][7], > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John Carvalho[16] > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris Stewart[3], John > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], > Ava Chow[14] > > - Michael Folkson* > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for "non-dev > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and Antoine > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed below as: > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to have a > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are far-along > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent Payments). I > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it demonstrates > familiarity with the process. > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > multiple recommendations from other community participants are fully > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed justification > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a draft > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of all 300 > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has reviewed > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd ask him > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already doing, > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > -Dave > > [1] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > [2] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > [3] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > [4] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > [5] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > [6] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > [7] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > [8] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > [10] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > [12] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > [13] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > [14] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > [15] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > [16] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > [17] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development > Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > > -- > Sergi. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development > Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/64ca2432-c2fc-436f-9ea0-4dd961d4d927%40mattcorallo.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-15 17:50 ` Matt Corallo @ 2024-04-16 12:34 ` Tim Ruffing 2024-04-16 13:32 ` NVK 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Tim Ruffing @ 2024-04-16 12:34 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Matt Corallo, Sergi Delgado Segura, nvk; +Cc: Bitcoin Development Mailing List I fully agree with Sergi and Matt here. (Sorry, this is just a +1 message, but I really don't have anything meaningful to add to their arguments.) Tim On Mon, 2024-04-15 at 13:50 -0400, Matt Corallo wrote: > Strongly agree with Sergi here, > > I'd suggest 2-3 BIP editors who are actually responsible for things > is more useful than 5 BIP > editors where no one is responsible for anything. > > Again, I'm not convinced dumping this on more people is useful, folks > like Roasbeef are great but > clearly don't have time to keep up with yet more things, and not sure > why folks are on the list here > who haven't been active on the Bitcoin-dev ML and in BIPs for many > years (eg no idea who Seccour is). > > Matt > > On 4/11/24 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, > > so personal preferences are easily > > ignored and overwritten by the group majority. > > > > I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. > > Having too many editors may result in > > a tragedy of the commons, in which people just commit to the job > > because many others do, and they do > > not end up doing as much because they expect others to do the it. > > This does not only make the > > process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up doing the > > job, given their time commitment > > ends up being too far from their expectations. > > > > I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, > > and gives us leeway in case the > > workload ends up being excessive and we need to add more people > > (plus discourage people from joining > > and slacking off). > > > > I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. I'd > > personally vouch for Murch, > > Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track record in the space > > > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk > > <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: > > > > +1 for > > Kanzure > > RubenSomsen > > Seccour > > Jon Atack > > Roasbeef > > > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > personal preferences are > > easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority. > > > > BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > > > I'd like to return to that. > > > > - NVK (temp gmail account) > > > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding > > wrote: > > > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying > > "I like Bob!". > > > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following > > appears to be > > the candidate list along with the current support. > > Asterisks denote > > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the > > role. > > > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], > > Brandon > > Black[11], > > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], Michael > > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > Poinsot[15], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > /dev/fd0[5][7], > > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > > Stewart[3], John > > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], > > Antoine > > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], > > Keagan > > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > > Riard[12], > > Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Michael Folkson* > > > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > > "non-dev > > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", > > and Antoine > > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the > > above > > candidates had been especially active there, which is > > listed below as: > > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number > > closed). > > > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set > > to have a > > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there > > are far-along > > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > > Payments). I > > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > > demonstrates > > familiarity with the process. > > > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates > > above with > > multiple recommendations from other community participants > > are fully > > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > > justification > > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not > > only a > > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as > > Corallo > > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology > > through a draft > > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review > > of all 300 > > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > > reviewed > > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility > > of the > > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work > > we'd ask him > > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's > > already doing, > > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > > > -Dave > > > > [1] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d979275 > > 51e@achow101•com/> > > [2] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a6 > > 2a3@dashjr•org/> > > [3] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f12 > > 9a2n@googlegroups•com/> > > [4] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b > > 713@netpurgatory•com/> > > [5] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157 > > fabn@googlegroups•com/> > > [6] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d > > 006n@googlegroups•com/> > > [7] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efb > > ea1n@googlegroups•com/> > > [8] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgL > > EazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail•gmail.com/> > > [9] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > [10] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9 > > bf2@mattcorallo•com/> > > [11] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > [12] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEb > > HSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail•gmail.com/> > > [13] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e > > 778@murch•one/> > > [14] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0 > > 644@achow101•com/> > > [15] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > > < > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > > > > > [16] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340 > > 661n@googlegroups•com/> > > [17] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd > > 9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail•gmail.com/> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > > it, send an email to > > > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > >. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > > < > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > > >. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sergi. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > send an email to > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto: > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com > > < > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > > >. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a7b4924d7148f85b1a7676a1c113eccc0b06cc86.camel%40timruffing.de. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-16 12:34 ` Tim Ruffing @ 2024-04-16 13:32 ` NVK 0 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: NVK @ 2024-04-16 13:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Tim Ruffing Cc: Matt Corallo, Sergi Delgado Segura, nvk, Bitcoin Development Mailing List I understand the skepticism with more people. I was also skeptical about having larger committees, but after doing working on the open stats board which is 9 people and it being extremely efficient and practical I've changed my outlook on the numbers. What do you do gain is more people to be available to review applications. Which is often the bottleneck. I doubt there would be much contention on the opinions of the group. Just my two 2 cents. (mobile) > On Apr 16, 2024, at 08:16, Tim Ruffing <crypto@timruffing•de> wrote: > > I fully agree with Sergi and Matt here. > > (Sorry, this is just a +1 message, but I really don't have anything > meaningful to add to their arguments.) > > Tim > >> On Mon, 2024-04-15 at 13:50 -0400, Matt Corallo wrote: >> Strongly agree with Sergi here, >> >> I'd suggest 2-3 BIP editors who are actually responsible for things >> is more useful than 5 BIP >> editors where no one is responsible for anything. >> >> Again, I'm not convinced dumping this on more people is useful, folks >> like Roasbeef are great but >> clearly don't have time to keep up with yet more things, and not sure >> why folks are on the list here >> who haven't been active on the Bitcoin-dev ML and in BIPs for many >> years (eg no idea who Seccour is). >> >> Matt >> >>> On 4/11/24 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: >>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, >>> so personal preferences are easily >>> ignored and overwritten by the group majority. >>> >>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. >>> Having too many editors may result in >>> a tragedy of the commons, in which people just commit to the job >>> because many others do, and they do >>> not end up doing as much because they expect others to do the it. >>> This does not only make the >>> process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up doing the >>> job, given their time commitment >>> ends up being too far from their expectations. >>> >>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, >>> and gives us leeway in case the >>> workload ends up being excessive and we need to add more people >>> (plus discourage people from joining >>> and slacking off). >>> >>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. I'd >>> personally vouch for Murch, >>> Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track record in the space >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk >>> <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: >>> >>> +1 for >>> Kanzure >>> RubenSomsen >>> Seccour >>> Jon Atack >>> Roasbeef >>> >>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>> personal preferences are >>> easily ignored and overwritten by the group majority. >>> >>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. >>> >>> I'd like to return to that. >>> >>> - NVK (temp gmail account) >>> >>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying >>> "I like Bob!". >>> >>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following >>> appears to be >>> the candidate list along with the current support. >>> Asterisks denote >>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the >>> role. >>> >>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>> Stewart[3], >>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], >>> Brandon >>> Black[11], >>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>> Stewart[3], Michael >>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine >>> Poinsot[15], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris >>> Stewart[3], >>> /dev/fd0[5][7], >>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris >>> Stewart[3], John >>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], >>> Antoine >>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>> >>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], >>> Keagan >>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine >>> Riard[12], >>> Ava Chow[14] >>> >>> - Michael Folkson* >>> >>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for >>> "non-dev >>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", >>> and Antoine >>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>> >>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the >>> above >>> candidates had been especially active there, which is >>> listed below as: >>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number >>> closed). >>> >>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>> >>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set >>> to have a >>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there >>> are far-along >>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent >>> Payments). I >>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>> demonstrates >>> familiarity with the process. >>> >>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates >>> above with >>> multiple recommendations from other community participants >>> are fully >>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed >>> justification >>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not >>> only a >>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as >>> Corallo >>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology >>> through a draft >>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review >>> of all 300 >>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has >>> reviewed >>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility >>> of the >>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work >>> we'd ask him >>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's >>> already doing, >>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> [1] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d979275 >>> 51e@achow101•com/> >>> [2] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a6 >>> 2a3@dashjr•org/> >>> [3] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f12 >>> 9a2n@googlegroups•com/> >>> [4] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b >>> 713@netpurgatory•com/> >>> [5] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157 >>> fabn@googlegroups•com/> >>> [6] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d >>> 006n@googlegroups•com/> >>> [7] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efb >>> ea1n@googlegroups•com/> >>> [8] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgL >>> EazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail•gmail.com/> >>> [9] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> >>> [10] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9 >>> bf2@mattcorallo•com/> >>> [11] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >>> [12] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEb >>> HSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail•gmail.com/> >>> [13] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e >>> 778@murch•one/> >>> [14] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0 >>> 644@achow101•com/> >>> [15] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >>> < >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ >>>> >>> [16] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340 >>> 661n@googlegroups•com/> >>> [17] >>> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ >>> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd >>> 9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail•gmail.com/> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>> Google Groups "Bitcoin Development >>> Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>> it, send an email to >>> >>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >>>> . >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com >>> < >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >>>> . >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sergi. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Bitcoin Development >>> Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> send an email to >>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com <mailto: >>> bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com >>> < >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer >>>> . >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/a7b4924d7148f85b1a7676a1c113eccc0b06cc86.camel%40timruffing.de. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7B4BE76C-63AF-4B84-805F-B78574A93D65%40coinkite.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-11 14:22 ` Sergi Delgado Segura 2024-04-15 17:50 ` Matt Corallo @ 2024-04-16 17:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-17 23:58 ` 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List ` (2 more replies) 1 sibling, 3 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-16 17:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed by many others. Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current counts are: * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against * Murch - 13 for * Jonatack - 13 for * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against * Roasbeef - 9 for * Michael Folkson - none However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really wants to deal with. I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not received a response from Roasbeef. Ava On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > majority. > > I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having > too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people > just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up > doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from > their expectations. > > I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need > to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). > > I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track > record in the space > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: > > +1 for > Kanzure > RubenSomsen > Seccour > Jon Atack > Roasbeef > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > majority. > > BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > I'd like to return to that. > > - NVK (temp gmail account) > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I > like Bob!". > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears > to be > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > Stewart[3], > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > Michael > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > /dev/fd0[5][7], > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > Carvalho[16] > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > Stewart[3], John > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > Riard[12], > Ava Chow[14] > > - Michael Folkson* > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > "non-dev > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and > Antoine > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed > below as: > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to > have a > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > far-along > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > Payments). I > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > demonstrates > familiarity with the process. > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > multiple recommendations from other community participants are > fully > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > justification > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a > draft > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of > all 300 > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > reviewed > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd > ask him > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already > doing, > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > -Dave > > [1] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > [2] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > [3] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > [4] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > [5] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > [6] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > [7] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > [8] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > [10] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > [12] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > [13] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > [14] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > [15] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > [16] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > [17] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > > -- > Sergi. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-16 17:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-17 23:58 ` 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-19 22:32 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun 2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-17 23:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev I would like to personally raise caution against Kanzure. I'm sure he's more than capable if so many people believe so but just want to highlight that based on his own public twitter thread, he claimed that he has better things to do. Unless he comes forward and doesn't hold that position anymore, I would think it might not end up being very fruitful if people chose him here based on the votes based on some assumptions. https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053 On Tuesday, April 16th, 2024 at 1:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed > by many others. > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > counts are: > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > * Murch - 13 for > * Jonatack - 13 for > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > * Roasbeef - 9 for > * Michael Folkson - none > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really > wants to deal with. > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > received a response from Roasbeef. > > Ava > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > > personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > > > majority. > > > > I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having > > too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people > > just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up > > doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > > only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > > doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from > > their expectations. > > > > I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > > gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need > > to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). > > > > I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > > I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track > > record in the space > > > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> wrote: > > > > +1 for > > Kanzure > > RubenSomsen > > Seccour > > Jon Atack > > Roasbeef > > > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > > majority. > > > > BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > > > I'd like to return to that. > > > > - NVK (temp gmail account) > > > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > > > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I > > like Bob!". > > > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears > > to be > > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > > Black[11], > > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > > Michael > > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > > /dev/fd0[5][7], > > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > > Stewart[3], John > > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > > Riard[12], > > Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Michael Folkson* > > > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > > "non-dev > > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and > > Antoine > > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed > > below as: > > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to > > have a > > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > > far-along > > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > > Payments). I > > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > > demonstrates > > familiarity with the process. > > > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > > multiple recommendations from other community participants are > > fully > > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > > justification > > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a > > draft > > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of > > all 300 > > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > > reviewed > > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd > > ask him > > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already > > doing, > > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > > > -Dave > > > > [1] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > > [2] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > > [3] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > > [4] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > > [5] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > > [6] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > > [7] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > > [8] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > [10] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > [12] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > > [13] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > [14] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > > [15] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > > [16] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > > [17] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer. > > > > -- > > Sergi. > > 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-16 17:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-17 23:58 ` 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-19 22:32 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun 2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Olaoluwa Osuntokun @ 2024-04-19 22:32 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 14201 bytes --] Hi y'all, > I have reached out to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from > Kanzure and Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > received a response from Roasbeef. I followed up on this with achow directly and realized that she reached out to me via a DM on IRC. I haven't lurked on IRC for many many months now (but this prompted me to lurk once again!), so I missed the original message. After DM'ing on X back and forth a bit to get some clarity on the proposed role, I'd be comfortable with being added as one of the (3?) new BIP editors. I think it's unfortunate that the BIP process has decayed over the past year or so (particularly with all the new dev activity), so if I can lend my time to help restore the process, then I'd be happy to do so 🫡. In terms of load, if I were to be added, given that we'd now have 4 (?) total BIP editors, I don't envision the load would be concentrated on any one individual. -- Laolu On Tue, Apr 16, 2024 at 10:24 AM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed > by many others. > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > counts are: > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > * Murch - 13 for > * Jonatack - 13 for > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > * Roasbeef - 9 for > * Michael Folkson - none > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really > wants to deal with. > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > received a response from Roasbeef. > > Ava > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > > majority. > > > > I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having > > too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people > > just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up > > doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > > only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > > doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from > > their expectations. > > > > I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > > gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need > > to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking > off). > > > > I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > > I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track > > record in the space > > > > On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: > > > > +1 for > > Kanzure > > RubenSomsen > > Seccour > > Jon Atack > > Roasbeef > > > > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > > majority. > > > > BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > > > I'd like to return to that. > > > > - NVK (temp gmail account) > > > > On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > > > > On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I > > like Bob!". > > > > Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears > > to be > > the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks > denote > > candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > > > > - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > > Black[11], > > Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > > Michael > > Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], > John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > > /dev/fd0[5][7], > > Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > > Carvalho[16] > > > > - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > > Stewart[3], John > > C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > > Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], > Keagan > > McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > > Riard[12], > > Ava Chow[14] > > > > - Michael Folkson* > > > > Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > > "non-dev > > triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and > > Antoine > > Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > > > I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > > candidates had been especially active there, which is listed > > below as: > > total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > > > > - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > > I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to > > have a > > merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > > far-along > > draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > > Payments). I > > don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > > demonstrates > > familiarity with the process. > > > > Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above > with > > multiple recommendations from other community participants are > > fully > > qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > > justification > > for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > > longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as > Corallo > > mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a > > draft > > BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of > > all 300 > > pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > > reviewed > > drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > > significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > > documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd > > ask him > > to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already > > doing, > > so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > > > -Dave > > > > [1] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > > > > [2] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > > > > [3] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > > > > [4] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > > > > [5] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > > > > [6] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > > > > [7] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > > > > [8] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > [10] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > > > > [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > [12] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > [13] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > > > [14] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > > > > [15] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > > > > [16] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > > > > [17] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > > > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > > > > > > > -- > > Sergi. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-16 17:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-17 23:58 ` 'nsvrn' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-19 22:32 ` Olaoluwa Osuntokun @ 2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK ` (5 more replies) 2 siblings, 6 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 19:14 UTC (permalink / raw) To: bitcoindev Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform everyone of what will happen on Monday. There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday April 22nd. Ava On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote: > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed > by many others. > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > counts are: > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > * Murch - 13 for > * Jonatack - 13 for > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > * Roasbeef - 9 for > * Michael Folkson - none > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really > wants to deal with. > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > received a response from Roasbeef. > > Ava > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >> majority. >> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from >> their expectations. >> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). >> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track >> record in the space >> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: >> >> +1 for >> Kanzure >> RubenSomsen >> Seccour >> Jon Atack >> Roasbeef >> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >> majority. >> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. >> >> I'd like to return to that. >> >> - NVK (temp gmail account) >> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: >> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I >> like Bob!". >> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears >> to be >> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >> Stewart[3], >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >> Black[11], >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >> Carvalho[16] >> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], >> Michael >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >> Carvalho[16] >> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >> /dev/fd0[5][7], >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John >> Carvalho[16] >> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris >> Stewart[3], John >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine >> Riard[12], >> Ava Chow[14] >> >> - Michael Folkson* >> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for >> "non-dev >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and >> Antoine >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed >> below as: >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to >> have a >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are >> far-along >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent >> Payments). I >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >> demonstrates >> familiarity with the process. >> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >> multiple recommendations from other community participants are >> fully >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed >> justification >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a >> draft >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of >> all 300 >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has >> reviewed >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd >> ask him >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already >> doing, >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >> >> -Dave >> >> [1] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> >> [2] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> >> [3] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> >> [4] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> >> [5] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> >> [6] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> >> [7] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> >> [8] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> >> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> >> [10] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> >> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >> [12] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> >> [13] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> >> [14] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> >> [15] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> >> [16] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> >> [17] >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> >> >> -- >> Sergi. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK 2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson ` (4 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: NVK @ 2024-04-20 19:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev Good number of people. Looking forward and congrats. > On Apr 20, 2024, at 14:30, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > April 22nd. > > Ava > >> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List >> wrote: >> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at >> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the >> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual >> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections >> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share >> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed >> by many others. >> >> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current >> counts are: >> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against >> * Murch - 13 for >> * Jonatack - 13 for >> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against >> * Roasbeef - 9 for >> * Michael Folkson - none >> >> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and >> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process >> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by >> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of >> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who >> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list >> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really >> wants to deal with. >> >> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted >> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out >> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and >> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public >> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not >> received a response from Roasbeef. >> >> Ava >> >> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: >>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>> majority. >>> >>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having >>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people >>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up >>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not >>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up >>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from >>> their expectations. >>> >>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and >>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need >>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). >>> >>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. >>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track >>> record in the space >>> >>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com >>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: >>> >>> +1 for >>> Kanzure >>> RubenSomsen >>> Seccour >>> Jon Atack >>> Roasbeef >>> >>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>> majority. >>> >>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. >>> >>> I'd like to return to that. >>> >>> - NVK (temp gmail account) >>> >>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: >>> >>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I >>> like Bob!". >>> >>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears >>> to be >>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >>> >>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>> Stewart[3], >>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >>> Black[11], >>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], >>> Michael >>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >>> /dev/fd0[5][7], >>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John >>> Carvalho[16] >>> >>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris >>> Stewart[3], John >>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>> >>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine >>> Riard[12], >>> Ava Chow[14] >>> >>> - Michael Folkson* >>> >>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for >>> "non-dev >>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and >>> Antoine >>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>> >>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed >>> below as: >>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >>> >>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>> >>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to >>> have a >>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are >>> far-along >>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent >>> Payments). I >>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>> demonstrates >>> familiarity with the process. >>> >>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >>> multiple recommendations from other community participants are >>> fully >>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed >>> justification >>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a >>> draft >>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of >>> all 300 >>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has >>> reviewed >>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd >>> ask him >>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already >>> doing, >>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>> >>> -Dave >>> >>> [1] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> >>> [2] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> >>> [3] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> >>> [4] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> >>> [5] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> >>> [6] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> >>> [7] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> >>> [8] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> >>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> >>> [10] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> >>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >>> [12] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> >>> [13] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> >>> [14] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> >>> [15] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> >>> [16] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> >>> [17] >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Sergi. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/122D31E5-5571-44DC-8DA8-E92E70598196%40coinkite.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK @ 2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson 2024-04-20 20:59 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee ` (3 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-20 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow, luke; +Cc: bitcoindev Ava > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday April 22nd. Is Luke happy with this? That is a lot of new editors to onboard. I suspect you'd push back against adding 5 maintainers overnight to Bitcoin Core and I'm not sure why this is any different. What happens if there is disagreement between these now 6 BIP editors on merge decisions? If Luke is fine with this ok but it seems like the BIPs repo is going to be a free for all from now on. Thanks Michael On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > April 22nd. > > Ava > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List > wrote: > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed > > by many others. > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > > counts are: > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > * Murch - 13 for > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really > > wants to deal with. > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > >> majority. > >> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from > >> their expectations. > >> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). > >> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track > >> record in the space > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: > >> > >> +1 for > >> Kanzure > >> RubenSomsen > >> Seccour > >> Jon Atack > >> Roasbeef > >> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > >> majority. > >> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > >> > >> I'd like to return to that. > >> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > >> > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: > >> > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I > >> like Bob!". > >> > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears > >> to be > >> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > >> > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > >> Stewart[3], > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > >> Black[11], > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > >> Michael > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > >> Stewart[3], John > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > >> > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > >> Riard[12], > >> Ava Chow[14] > >> > >> - Michael Folkson* > >> > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > >> "non-dev > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and > >> Antoine > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > >> > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed > >> below as: > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > >> > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > >> > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to > >> have a > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > >> far-along > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > >> Payments). I > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > >> demonstrates > >> familiarity with the process. > >> > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with > >> multiple recommendations from other community participants are > >> fully > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > >> justification > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a > >> draft > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of > >> all 300 > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > >> reviewed > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > >> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd > >> ask him > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already > >> doing, > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > >> > >> -Dave > >> > >> [1] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > >> [2] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > >> [3] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > >> [4] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > >> [5] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > >> [6] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > >> [7] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > >> [8] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > >> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > >> [10] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > >> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > >> [12] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > >> [13] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > >> [14] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > >> [15] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > >> [16] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > >> [17] > >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sergi. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. > To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com. -- Michael Folkson Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAFvNmHTdTy6dCoTACMcHMam_-8DrH7ra-3aOMcke8k2ot3Lq%2BA%40mail.gmail.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-20 20:59 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 0 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Michael Folkson, luke; +Cc: bitcoindev On 04/20/2024 03:59 PM, Michael Folkson wrote: > Is Luke happy with this? That is a lot of new editors to onboard. I > suspect you'd push back against adding 5 maintainers overnight to > Bitcoin Core and I'm not sure why this is any different. What happens > if there is disagreement between these now 6 BIP editors on merge > decisions? If Luke is fine with this ok but it seems like the BIPs > repo is going to be a free for all from now on. My understanding is that he is okay with it, and I've talked to him privately numerous times about this since this thread was started. This is different from Bitcoin Core in that there is currently only one BIP editor who has clearly stated more editors are needed. BIPs is also a fairly low risk repo as it's just documentation. The expectation is that each editor will be able to work independently; obviously they should be communicating, but it's not a committee. I'm sure there will be some disagreement eventually, but ultimately, I think all of the candidates are professionals who can handle that maturely. Obviously a revert war would be a problem, but I don't think it would come down to that, and in that case, participants in that should be promptly removed. Ava > > Thanks > Michael > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform >> everyone of what will happen on Monday. >> >> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there >> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. >> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, >> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday >> April 22nd. >> >> Ava >> >> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List >> wrote: >>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at >>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the >>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual >>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections >>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share >>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed >>> by many others. >>> >>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current >>> counts are: >>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against >>> * Murch - 13 for >>> * Jonatack - 13 for >>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against >>> * Roasbeef - 9 for >>> * Michael Folkson - none >>> >>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and >>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process >>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by >>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of >>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who >>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list >>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really >>> wants to deal with. >>> >>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted >>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out >>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and >>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public >>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not >>> received a response from Roasbeef. >>> >>> Ava >>> >>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: >>>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>>> majority. >>>> >>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having >>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people >>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up >>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not >>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up >>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from >>>> their expectations. >>>> >>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and >>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need >>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off). >>>> >>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. >>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track >>>> record in the space >>>> >>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com >>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: >>>> >>>> +1 for >>>> Kanzure >>>> RubenSomsen >>>> Seccour >>>> Jon Atack >>>> Roasbeef >>>> >>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so >>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group >>>> majority. >>>> >>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. >>>> >>>> I'd like to return to that. >>>> >>>> - NVK (temp gmail account) >>>> >>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote: >>>> >>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: >>>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I >>>> like Bob!". >>>> >>>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears >>>> to be >>>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote >>>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. >>>> >>>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris >>>> Stewart[3], >>>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon >>>> Black[11], >>>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>>> Carvalho[16] >>>> >>>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], >>>> Michael >>>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John >>>> Carvalho[16] >>>> >>>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], >>>> /dev/fd0[5][7], >>>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John >>>> Carvalho[16] >>>> >>>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris >>>> Stewart[3], John >>>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine >>>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] >>>> >>>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan >>>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine >>>> Riard[12], >>>> Ava Chow[14] >>>> >>>> - Michael Folkson* >>>> >>>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for >>>> "non-dev >>>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and >>>> Antoine >>>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". >>>> >>>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above >>>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed >>>> below as: >>>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). >>>> >>>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure >>>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen >>>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack >>>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef >>>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus >>>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson >>>> >>>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to >>>> have a >>>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are >>>> far-along >>>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent >>>> Payments). I >>>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it >>>> demonstrates >>>> familiarity with the process. >>>> >>>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with >>>> multiple recommendations from other community participants are >>>> fully >>>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed >>>> justification >>>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a >>>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo >>>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a >>>> draft >>>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of >>>> all 300 >>>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has >>>> reviewed >>>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases >>>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the >>>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd >>>> ask him >>>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already >>>> doing, >>>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. >>>> >>>> -Dave >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> >>>> [2] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> >>>> [3] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> >>>> [4] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> >>>> [5] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> >>>> [6] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> >>>> [7] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> >>>> [8] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> >>>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> >>>> [10] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> >>>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ >>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> >>>> [12] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> >>>> [13] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> >>>> [14] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> >>>> [15] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> >>>> [16] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> >>>> [17] >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >>>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sergi. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com >>>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com. > > > > -- > Michael Folkson > Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/dec8efc6-65db-4721-8178-8d3b99804fdd%40achow101.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK 2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee 2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-21 23:01 ` Matt Corallo ` (2 subsequent siblings) 5 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 14712 bytes --] Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this responsibility without being paid? I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it? On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > April 22nd. > > Ava > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List > wrote: > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed > > by many others. > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > > counts are: > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > * Murch - 13 for > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really > > wants to deal with. > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > >> majority. > >> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from > >> their expectations. > >> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking > off). > >> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track > >> record in the space > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote: > >> > >> +1 for > >> Kanzure > >> RubenSomsen > >> Seccour > >> Jon Atack > >> Roasbeef > >> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > >> majority. > >> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > >> > >> I'd like to return to that. > >> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > >> > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding > wrote: > >> > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I > >> like Bob!". > >> > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following > appears > >> to be > >> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks > denote > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role. > >> > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > >> Stewart[3], > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > >> Black[11], > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3], > >> Michael > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], > John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3], > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > >> Stewart[3], John > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > >> > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], > Keagan > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > >> Riard[12], > >> Ava Chow[14] > >> > >> - Michael Folkson* > >> > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > >> "non-dev > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and > >> Antoine > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > >> > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the > above > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed > >> below as: > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed). > >> > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > >> > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to > >> have a > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are > >> far-along > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > >> Payments). I > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > >> demonstrates > >> familiarity with the process. > >> > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above > with > >> multiple recommendations from other community participants are > >> fully > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > >> justification > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as > Corallo > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a > >> draft > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of > >> all 300 > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > >> reviewed > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > >> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of > the > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd > >> ask him > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's > already > >> doing, > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > >> > >> -Dave > >> > >> [1] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > > > >> [2] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > > > >> [3] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > > > >> [4] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > > > >> [5] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > > > >> [6] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > > > >> [7] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > > > >> [8] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > > > >> [9] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > >> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > >> [10] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > > > >> [11] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > >> [12] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > > > >> [13] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > > >> [14] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > > > >> [15] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > > > >> [16] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > > > >> [17] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > > > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee 2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson 0 siblings, 2 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve Lee; +Cc: bitcoindev On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this > responsibility without being paid? I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him about being a BIPs editor. > I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they > want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it? Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2] have also replied to this thread about this. Ava [1]: https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ [2]: https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > April 22nd. > > Ava > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List > wrote: > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit > objections > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be > endorsed > > by many others. > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > > counts are: > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > * Murch - 13 for > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this > process > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone > really > > wants to deal with. > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have > posted > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have > reached out > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this > task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > >> majority. > >> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. > Having > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in > which people > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not > end up > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far > from > >> their expectations. > >> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and > we need > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and > slacking off). > >> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on > their track > >> record in the space > >> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote: > >> > >> +1 for > >> Kanzure > >> RubenSomsen > >> Seccour > >> Jon Atack > >> Roasbeef > >> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > >> majority. > >> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > >> > >> I'd like to return to that. > >> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > >> > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. > Harding wrote: > >> > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply > saying "I > >> like Bob!". > >> > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the > following appears > >> to be > >> the candidate list along with the current support. > Asterisks denote > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept > the role. > >> > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > >> Stewart[3], > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], > Brandon > >> Black[11], > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > Stewart[3], > >> Michael > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > Poinsot[15], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris > Stewart[3], > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > >> Carvalho[16] > >> > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > >> Stewart[3], John > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], > Antoine > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > >> > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael > Folkson[6], Keagan > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > >> Riard[12], > >> Ava Chow[14] > >> > >> - Michael Folkson* > >> > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > >> "non-dev > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP > editor", and > >> Antoine > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > >> > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of > the above > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is > listed > >> below as: > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number > closed). > >> > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > >> > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the > set to > >> have a > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe > there are > >> far-along > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > >> Payments). I > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > >> demonstrates > >> familiarity with the process. > >> > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates > above with > >> multiple recommendations from other community > participants are > >> fully > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > >> justification > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not > only a > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but > (as Corallo > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology > through a > >> draft > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed > review of > >> all 300 > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > >> reviewed > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > comprehensibility of the > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the > work we'd > >> ask him > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that > he's already > >> doing, > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > >> > >> -Dave > >> > >> [1] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> > >> [2] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> > >> [3] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> > >> [4] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> > >> [5] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> > >> [6] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> > >> [7] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> > >> [8] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>> > >> [9] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> > >> [10] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>> > >> [11] > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > >> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > >> [12] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>> > >> [13] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> > >> [14] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>> > >> [15] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> > >> [16] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>> > >> [17] > >> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>> > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > from it, > >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>. > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Sergi. > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>. > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee 2024-04-20 21:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson 1 sibling, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 22230 bytes --] On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:08 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote: > On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this > > responsibility without being paid? > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him > about being a BIPs editor. > You should read this thread then before making a decision. > > > I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they > > want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to > it? > > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2] > have also replied to this thread about this. Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so everyone was aware. > > Ava > > [1]: > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > [2]: > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have > there > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last > email. > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > > April 22nd. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing > List > > wrote: > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add > at > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of > the > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit > > objections > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't > share > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be > > endorsed > > > by many others. > > > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the > current > > > counts are: > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > > * Murch - 13 for > > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest > and > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this > > process > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any > of > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 > who > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this > list > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone > > really > > > wants to deal with. > > > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have > > posted > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have > > reached out > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure > and > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this > > task, so > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the > group > > >> majority. > > >> > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. > > Having > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in > > which people > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not > > end up > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does > not > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end > up > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far > > from > > >> their expectations. > > >> > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, > and > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and > > we need > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and > > slacking off). > > >> > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on > > their track > > >> record in the space > > >> > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote: > > >> > > >> +1 for > > >> Kanzure > > >> RubenSomsen > > >> Seccour > > >> Jon Atack > > >> Roasbeef > > >> > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the > group > > >> majority. > > >> > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce > ideas. > > >> > > >> I'd like to return to that. > > >> > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > > >> > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. > > Harding wrote: > > >> > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply > > saying "I > > >> like Bob!". > > >> > > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the > > following appears > > >> to be > > >> the candidate list along with the current support. > > Asterisks denote > > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept > > the role. > > >> > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], > Chris > > >> Stewart[3], > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], > > Brandon > > >> Black[11], > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > >> Michael > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > Poinsot[15], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > > >> Stewart[3], John > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], > > Antoine > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > >> > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael > > Folkson[6], Keagan > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], > Antoine > > >> Riard[12], > > >> Ava Chow[14] > > >> > > >> - Michael Folkson* > > >> > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski > for > > >> "non-dev > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP > > editor", and > > >> Antoine > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > >> > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of > > the above > > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is > > listed > > >> below as: > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number > > closed). > > >> > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > >> > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the > > set to > > >> have a > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe > > there are > > >> far-along > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen > (Silent > > >> Payments). I > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do > think it > > >> demonstrates > > >> familiarity with the process. > > >> > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates > > above with > > >> multiple recommendations from other community > > participants are > > >> fully > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > > >> justification > > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not > > only a > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but > > (as Corallo > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology > > through a > > >> draft > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed > > review of > > >> all 300 > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and > has > > >> reviewed > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both > cases > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > > comprehensibility of the > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the > > work we'd > > >> ask him > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that > > he's already > > >> doing, > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > >> > > >> -Dave > > >> > > >> [1] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > >> > > >> [2] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > >> > > >> [3] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > >> > > >> [4] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > >> > > >> [5] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > >> > > >> [6] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > >> > > >> [7] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > >> > > >> [8] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > >> > > >> [9] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > >> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> > > >> [10] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > >> > > >> [11] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > >> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > >> [12] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > >> > > >> [13] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > >> > > >> [14] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > >> > > >> [15] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > >> > > >> [16] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > >> > > >> [17] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> You 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 21:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 22:03 ` Steve Lee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve Lee; +Cc: bitcoindev On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him > about being a BIPs editor. > > > You should read this thread then before making a decision. Thank you for your snarky reply. I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+ emails in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10 minutes searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure or anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this evidence. > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2] > have also replied to this thread about this. > > > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so everyone was > aware. You should read this thread before making such assumptions. I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with Jonatack and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their willingness. Ava [1]: https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/ > > > > Ava > > [1]: > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/> > [2]: > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: > > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to > inform > > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor > have there > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my > last email. > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, > Jonatack, > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on > Monday > > April 22nd. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > Mailing List > > wrote: > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot > to add at > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which > subset of the > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen > an actual > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit > > objections > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people > don't share > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be > > endorsed > > > by many others. > > > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, > the current > > > counts are: > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > > * Murch - 13 for > > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity > contest and > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that > this > > process > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are > added - by > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections > to any of > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding > the 5 who > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from > this list > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think > anyone > > really > > > wants to deal with. > > > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor > Roasbeef have > > posted > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have > > reached out > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from > Kanzure and > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I > have not > > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this > > task, so > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten > by the group > > >> majority. > > >> > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better > here. > > Having > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in > > which people > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they > do not > > end up > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. > This does not > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones > that end up > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being > too far > > from > > >> their expectations. > > >> > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is > better, and > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being > excessive and > > we need > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and > > slacking off). > > >> > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on > > their track > > >> record in the space > > >> > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>> wrote: > > >> > > >> +1 for > > >> Kanzure > > >> RubenSomsen > > >> Seccour > > >> Jon Atack > > >> Roasbeef > > >> > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this > task, so > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten > by the group > > >> majority. > > >> > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not > enforce ideas. > > >> > > >> I'd like to return to that. > > >> > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > > >> > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. > > Harding wrote: > > >> > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply > > saying "I > > >> like Bob!". > > >> > > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the > > following appears > > >> to be > > >> the candidate list along with the current support. > > Asterisks denote > > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept > > the role. > > >> > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava > Chow[1], Chris > > >> Stewart[3], > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], > > Brandon > > >> Black[11], > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > Poinsot[15], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > >> Michael > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > Poinsot[15], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava > Chow[14], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by > Chris > > >> Stewart[3], John > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan > McClelland[8], > > Antoine > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > >> > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael > > Folkson[6], Keagan > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > Black[11], Antoine > > >> Riard[12], > > >> Ava Chow[14] > > >> > > >> - Michael Folkson* > > >> > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg > Tonoski for > > >> "non-dev > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP > > editor", and > > >> Antoine > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > >> > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if > any of > > the above > > >> candidates had been especially active there, > which is > > listed > > >> below as: > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still > open/number > > closed). > > >> > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > >> > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member > of the > > set to > > >> have a > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe > > there are > > >> far-along > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and > Somsen (Silent > > >> Payments). I > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I > do think it > > >> demonstrates > > >> familiarity with the process. > > >> > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the > candidates > > above with > > >> multiple recommendations from other community > > participants are > > >> fully > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a > detailed > > >> justification > > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch > is not > > only a > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin > contributor, but > > (as Corallo > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing > terminology > > through a > > >> draft > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed > > review of > > >> all 300 > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd > edition) and has > > >> reviewed > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in > both cases > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > > comprehensibility of the > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the > > work we'd > > >> ask him > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that > > he's already > > >> doing, > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to > role. > > >> > > >> -Dave > > >> > > >> [1] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>> > > >> [2] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>> > > >> [3] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>> > > >> [4] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>> > > >> [5] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>> > > >> [6] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>> > > >> [7] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>> > > >> [8] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>> > > >> [9] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>> > > >> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>> > > >> [10] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>> > > >> [11] > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > >> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>> > > >> [12] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>> > > >> [13] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>> > > >> [14] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>> > > >> [15] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>> > > >> [16] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>> > > >> [17] > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed > to the > > Google 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<https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> -- > > >> Sergi. > > >> > > >> -- > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to > the Google > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > > it, send > > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > 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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/2ca58df4-99b3-4466-b583-406427f4a928%40achow101.com. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 100+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 21:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 22:03 ` Steve Lee 2024-04-20 22:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 35232 bytes --] nsvrn posted a days ago. Here's the tweet https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053 Ava, I'm just requesting people acknowledge legitimate concerns raised and be transparent. Do you disagree? On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote: > On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him > > about being a BIPs editor. > > > > > > You should read this thread then before making a decision. > > Thank you for your snarky reply. > > I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+ emails > in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've > missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10 minutes > searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure or > anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If > you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this > evidence. > > > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed > to > > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2] > > have also replied to this thread about this. > > > > > > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so everyone was > > aware. > > You should read this thread before making such assumptions. > > I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and > got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with Jonatack > and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've > read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their willingness. > > Ava > > [1]: > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/ > > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > [1]: > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > > > > [2]: > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin > Development > > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to > > inform > > > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > > > > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor > > have there > > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my > > last email. > > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, > > Jonatack, > > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on > > Monday > > > April 22nd. > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List > > > wrote: > > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot > > to add at > > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which > > subset of the > > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen > > an actual > > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no > explicit > > > objections > > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people > > don't share > > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue > to be > > > endorsed > > > > by many others. > > > > > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, > > the current > > > > counts are: > > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > > > * Murch - 13 for > > > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity > > contest and > > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that > > this > > > process > > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are > > added - by > > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections > > to any of > > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding > > the 5 who > > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from > > this list > > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think > > anyone > > > really > > > > wants to deal with. > > > > > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor > > Roasbeef have > > > posted > > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I > have > > > reached out > > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from > > Kanzure and > > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but > public > > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I > > have not > > > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on > this > > > task, so > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten > > by the group > > > >> majority. > > > >> > > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better > > here. > > > Having > > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, > in > > > which people > > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they > > do not > > > end up > > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. > > This does not > > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones > > that end up > > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being > > too far > > > from > > > >> their expectations. > > > >> > > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is > > better, and > > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being > > excessive and > > > we need > > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining > and > > > slacking off). > > > >> > > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start > from. > > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based > on > > > their track > > > >> record in the space > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> > > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> +1 for > > > >> Kanzure > > > >> RubenSomsen > > > >> Seccour > > > >> Jon Atack > > > >> Roasbeef > > > >> > > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this > > task, so > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten > > by the group > > > >> majority. > > > >> > > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not > > enforce ideas. > > > >> > > > >> I'd like to return to that. > > > >> > > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > > > >> > > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. > > > Harding wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > >> > Please provide justification rather than > simply > > > saying "I > > > >> like Bob!". > > > >> > > > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the > > > following appears > > > >> to be > > > >> the candidate list along with the current > support. > > > Asterisks denote > > > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to > accept > > > the role. > > > >> > > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava > > Chow[1], Chris > > > >> Stewart[3], > > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt > Corallo[10], > > > Brandon > > > >> Black[11], > > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > Poinsot[15], John > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > >> > > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > > Stewart[3], > > > >> Michael > > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > > Poinsot[15], John > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > >> > > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], > Chris > > > Stewart[3], > > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava > > Chow[14], John > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > >> > > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by > > Chris > > > >> Stewart[3], John > > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan > > McClelland[8], > > > Antoine > > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > >> > > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael > > > Folkson[6], Keagan > > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > > Black[11], Antoine > > > >> Riard[12], > > > >> Ava Chow[14] > > > >> > > > >> - Michael Folkson* > > > >> > > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg > > Tonoski for > > > >> "non-dev > > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP > > > editor", and > > > >> Antoine > > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized > PM". > > > >> > > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if > > any of > > > the above > > > >> candidates had been especially active there, > > which is > > > listed > > > >> below as: > > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still > > open/number > > > closed). > > > >> > > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > >> > > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member > > of the > > > set to > > > >> have a > > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I > believe > > > there are > > > >> far-along > > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and > > Somsen (Silent > > > >> Payments). I > > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I > > do think it > > > >> demonstrates > > > >> familiarity with the process. > > > >> > > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the > > candidates > > > above with > > > >> multiple recommendations from other community > > > participants are > > > >> fully > > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a > > detailed > > > >> justification > > > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch > > is not > > > only a > > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin > > contributor, but > > > (as Corallo > > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing > > terminology > > > through a > > > >> draft > > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely > detailed > > > review of > > > >> all 300 > > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd > > edition) and has > > > >> reviewed > > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in > > both cases > > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > > > comprehensibility of the > > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to > the > > > work we'd > > > >> ask him > > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something > that > > > he's already > > > >> doing, > > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to > > role. > > > >> > > > >> -Dave > > > >> > > > >> [1] > > > >> > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > >>> > > > >> [2] > > > >> > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > >>> > > > >> [3] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > >>> > > > >> [4] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > >>> > > > >> [5] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > >>> > > > >> [6] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > >>> > > > >> [7] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > >>> > > > >> [8] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > >>> > > > >> [9] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>> > > > >> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>> > > > >> [10] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > >>> > > > >> [11] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > > >> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>> > > > >> [12] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > >>> > > > >> [13] > > > >> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > >>> > > > >> [14] > > > >> > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > >>> > > > >> [15] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > >>> > > > >> [16] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > >>> > > > >> [17] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > >>> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed > > to the > > > Google > > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving > emails > > > from it, > > > >> send an email to > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> 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https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >>>. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> Sergi. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to > > the Google > > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > from > > > it, send > > > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>> > > > >> 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 22:03 ` Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 22:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-22 2:44 ` Steve Lee 0 siblings, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Steve Lee; +Cc: bitcoindev I saw that email and read the tweet. It doesn't seem to me that nsvrn was raising an objection to Kanzure, just pointing out something for people to consider. No one else has said anything, so I'm assuming that no minds have changed considering this information. It'd be ridiculous if every time new information was presented that we went to everyone and ask them whether their stance has changed. It's all the same email thread, if their mind has changed, then they can inform us as a reply. Furthermore, I fail to see how this tweet matches your claim that he "does not want this responsibility without being paid". Saying that he has better things to do with his time doesn't necessarily mean that he won't do it, and other such tweets, including his own replies to this one, indicate the he is. If your concern is about his reply to the suggestion that being paid would change things substantially, I still don't see how that matches the statement you made earlier. Being paid to do any task would change the calculus on whether someone wants to do something, but that doesn't mean they won't do it even if unpaid. Ava On 04/20/2024 06:03 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > nsvrn posted a days ago. Here's the tweet > https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053 > <https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053> > > Ava, I'm just requesting people acknowledge legitimate concerns raised > and be transparent. Do you disagree? > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com > <mailto:lists@achow101•com>> wrote: > > On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've > talked to him > > about being a BIPs editor. > > > > > > You should read this thread then before making a decision. > > Thank you for your snarky reply. > > I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+ > emails > in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've > missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10 > minutes > searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure or > anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If > you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this > evidence. > > > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all > confirmed to > > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and > Murch[2] > > have also replied to this thread about this. > > > > > > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so > everyone was > > aware. > > You should read this thread before making such assumptions. > > I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and > got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with > Jonatack > and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've > read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their willingness. > > Ava > > [1]: > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/> > > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > [1]: > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/>> > > [2]: > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin > Development > > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd > like to > > inform > > > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > > > > > There has not been any actual objections to the > nominees nor > > have there > > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my > > last email. > > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, > Murch, > > Jonatack, > > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be > added on > > Monday > > > April 22nd. > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List > > > wrote: > > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems > like a lot > > to add at > > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which > > subset of the > > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only > seen > > an actual > > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and > no explicit > > > objections > > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of > people > > don't share > > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben > continue to be > > > endorsed > > > > by many others. > > > > > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has > received, > > the current > > > > counts are: > > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > > > * Murch - 13 for > > > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a > popularity > > contest and > > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd > prefer that > > this > > > process > > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are > > added - by > > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit > objections > > to any of > > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with > adding > > the 5 who > > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick > "winners" from > > this list > > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I > don't think > > anyone > > > really > > > > wants to deal with. > > > > > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor > > Roasbeef have > > > posted > > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP > editors. I have > > > reached out > > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from > > Kanzure and > > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, > but public > > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be > nice. I > > have not > > > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less > folks on this > > > task, so > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and > overwritten > > by the group > > > >> majority. > > > >> > > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the > better > > here. > > > Having > > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the > commons, in > > > which people > > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and > they > > do not > > > end up > > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. > > This does not > > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the > ones > > that end up > > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up > being > > too far > > > from > > > >> their expectations. > > > >> > > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of > people is > > better, and > > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being > > excessive and > > > we need > > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from > joining and > > > slacking off). > > > >> > > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to > start from. > > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben > based on > > > their track > > > >> record in the space > > > >> > > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk > <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> > > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> > > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>>> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> +1 for > > > >> Kanzure > > > >> RubenSomsen > > > >> Seccour > > > >> Jon Atack > > > >> Roasbeef > > > >> > > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks > on this > > task, so > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and > overwritten > > by the group > > > >> majority. > > > >> > > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not > > enforce ideas. > > > >> > > > >> I'd like to return to that. > > > >> > > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > > > >> > > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 > David A. > > > Harding wrote: > > > >> > > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > >> > Please provide justification rather > than simply > > > saying "I > > > >> like Bob!". > > > >> > > > >> Using only comments from the mailing > list, the > > > following appears > > > >> to be > > > >> the candidate list along with the current > support. > > > Asterisks denote > > > >> candidates who indicated their > willingness to accept > > > the role. > > > >> > > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava > > Chow[1], Chris > > > >> Stewart[3], > > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt > Corallo[10], > > > Brandon > > > >> Black[11], > > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > Poinsot[15], John > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > >> > > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava > Chow[1], Chris > > > Stewart[3], > > > >> Michael > > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], > Antoine > > > Poinsot[15], John > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > >> > > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke > Dashjr[2], Chris > > > Stewart[3], > > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava > > Chow[14], John > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > >> > > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, > recommended by > > Chris > > > >> Stewart[3], John > > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan > > McClelland[8], > > > Antoine > > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > >> > > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by > Michael > > > Folkson[6], Keagan > > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > > Black[11], Antoine > > > >> Riard[12], > > > >> Ava Chow[14] > > > >> > > > >> - Michael Folkson* > > > >> > > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour > and Greg > > Tonoski for > > > >> "non-dev > > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] > for "BIP > > > editor", and > > > >> Antoine > > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for > "decentralized PM". > > > >> > > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to > see if > > any of > > > the above > > > >> candidates had been especially active there, > > which is > > > listed > > > >> below as: > > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still > > open/number > > > closed). > > > >> > > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > >> > > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only > member > > of the > > > set to > > > >> have a > > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, > although I believe > > > there are > > > >> far-along > > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and > > Somsen (Silent > > > >> Payments). I > > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, > but I > > do think it > > > >> demonstrates > > > >> familiarity with the process. > > > >> > > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the > > candidates > > > above with > > > >> multiple recommendations from other community > > > participants are > > > >> fully > > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only > provide a > > detailed > > > >> justification > > > >> for the person who would be my first > pick: Murch > > is not > > > only a > > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin > > contributor, but > > > (as Corallo > > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing > > terminology > > > through a > > > >> draft > > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an > extremely detailed > > > review of > > > >> all 300 > > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd > > edition) and has > > > >> reviewed > > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech > newsletters, in > > both cases > > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > > > comprehensibility of the > > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very > similar to the > > > work we'd > > > >> ask him > > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's > something that > > > he's already > > > >> doing, > > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of > person to > > role. > > > >> > > > >> -Dave > > > >> > > > >> [1] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>>> > > > >> [2] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>>> > > > >> [3] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>>> > > > >> [4] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>>> > > > >> [5] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>>> > > > >> [6] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>>> > > > >> [7] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>>> > > > >> [8] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>>> > > > >> [9] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>> > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>> > > > >> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>>> > > > >> [10] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>>> > > > >> [11] > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>> > > > >> > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>> > > > >> [12] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>>> > > > >> [13] > > > >> > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>>> > > > >> [14] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>>> > > > >> [15] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>>> > > > >> [16] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>>> > > > >> [17] > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>>> > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> You received this message because you are > subscribed > > to the > > > Google > > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop > receiving emails > > > from it, > > > >> send an email to > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 22:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-22 2:44 ` Steve Lee 0 siblings, 0 replies; 100+ messages in thread From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-22 2:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 59750 bytes --] Hi Ava, I hadn't seen until just now your post prior to nsvrn's post which stated: "I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not received a response from Roasbeef." This is exactly what I had a concern about, and I unfortunately hadn't seen it before replying to this thread. I apologize for the unnecessary responses from me. Thanks for dealing with all of this and helping us drive to a conclusion. Steve On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 3:47 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote: > I saw that email and read the tweet. It doesn't seem to me that nsvrn > was raising an objection to Kanzure, just pointing out something for > people to consider. No one else has said anything, so I'm assuming that > no minds have changed considering this information. It'd be ridiculous > if every time new information was presented that we went to everyone and > ask them whether their stance has changed. It's all the same email > thread, if their mind has changed, then they can inform us as a reply. > > Furthermore, I fail to see how this tweet matches your claim that he > "does not want this responsibility without being paid". Saying that he > has better things to do with his time doesn't necessarily mean that he > won't do it, and other such tweets, including his own replies to this > one, indicate the he is. > > If your concern is about his reply to the suggestion that being paid > would change things substantially, I still don't see how that matches > the statement you made earlier. Being paid to do any task would change > the calculus on whether someone wants to do something, but that doesn't > mean they won't do it even if unpaid. > > Ava > > On 04/20/2024 06:03 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > nsvrn posted a days ago. Here's the tweet > > https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053 > > <https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053> > > > > Ava, I'm just requesting people acknowledge legitimate concerns raised > > and be transparent. Do you disagree? > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com > > <mailto:lists@achow101•com>> wrote: > > > > On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > > > > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've > > talked to him > > > about being a BIPs editor. > > > > > > > > > You should read this thread then before making a decision. > > > > Thank you for your snarky reply. > > > > I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+ > > emails > > in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've > > missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10 > > minutes > > searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure > or > > anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If > > you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this > > evidence. > > > > > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all > > confirmed to > > > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and > > Murch[2] > > > have also replied to this thread about this. > > > > > > > > > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so > > everyone was > > > aware. > > > > You should read this thread before making such assumptions. > > > > I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and > > got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with > > Jonatack > > and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've > > read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their > willingness. > > > > Ava > > > > [1]: > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > [1]: > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > >> > > > [2]: > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > >> > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin > > Development > > > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> > > > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd > > like to > > > inform > > > > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > > > > > > > There has not been any actual objections to the > > nominees nor > > > have there > > > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them > since my > > > last email. > > > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, > > Murch, > > > Jonatack, > > > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be > > added on > > > Monday > > > > April 22nd. > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin > Development > > > Mailing List > > > > wrote: > > > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems > > like a lot > > > to add at > > > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide > which > > > subset of the > > > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only > > seen > > > an actual > > > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and > > no explicit > > > > objections > > > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of > > people > > > don't share > > > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben > > continue to be > > > > endorsed > > > > > by many others. > > > > > > > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has > > received, > > > the current > > > > > counts are: > > > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > > > > * Murch - 13 for > > > > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > > > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > > > > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a > > popularity > > > contest and > > > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd > > prefer that > > > this > > > > process > > > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers > are > > > added - by > > > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit > > objections > > > to any of > > > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with > > adding > > > the 5 who > > > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick > > "winners" from > > > this list > > > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I > > don't think > > > anyone > > > > really > > > > > wants to deal with. > > > > > > > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor > > > Roasbeef have > > > > posted > > > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP > > editors. I have > > > > reached out > > > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses > from > > > Kanzure and > > > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, > > but public > > > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be > > nice. I > > > have not > > > > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less > > folks on this > > > > task, so > > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and > > overwritten > > > by the group > > > > >> majority. > > > > >> > > > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the > > better > > > here. > > > > Having > > > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the > > commons, in > > > > which people > > > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and > > they > > > do not > > > > end up > > > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the > it. > > > This does not > > > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the > > ones > > > that end up > > > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up > > being > > > too far > > > > from > > > > >> their expectations. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of > > people is > > > better, and > > > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being > > > excessive and > > > > we need > > > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from > > joining and > > > > slacking off). > > > > >> > > > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to > > start from. > > > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben > > based on > > > > their track > > > > >> record in the space > > > > >> > > > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk > > <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> > > > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> > > > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> > > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>>> wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> +1 for > > > > >> Kanzure > > > > >> RubenSomsen > > > > >> Seccour > > > > >> Jon Atack > > > > >> Roasbeef > > > > >> > > > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks > > on this > > > task, so > > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and > > overwritten > > > by the group > > > > >> majority. > > > > >> > > > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not > > > enforce ideas. > > > > >> > > > > >> I'd like to return to that. > > > > >> > > > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > > > > >> > > > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 > > David A. > > > > Harding wrote: > > > > >> > > > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > > > >> > Please provide justification rather > > than simply > > > > saying "I > > > > >> like Bob!". > > > > >> > > > > >> Using only comments from the mailing > > list, the > > > > following appears > > > > >> to be > > > > >> the candidate list along with the current > > support. > > > > Asterisks denote > > > > >> candidates who indicated their > > willingness to accept > > > > the role. > > > > >> > > > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by > Ava > > > Chow[1], Chris > > > > >> Stewart[3], > > > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt > > Corallo[10], > > > > Brandon > > > > >> Black[11], > > > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > > Poinsot[15], John > > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > > >> > > > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava > > Chow[1], Chris > > > > Stewart[3], > > > > >> Michael > > > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], > > Antoine > > > > Poinsot[15], John > > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > > >> > > > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke > > Dashjr[2], Chris > > > > Stewart[3], > > > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > > > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava > > > Chow[14], John > > > > >> Carvalho[16] > > > > >> > > > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, > > recommended by > > > Chris > > > > >> Stewart[3], John > > > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan > > > McClelland[8], > > > > Antoine > > > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > > > >> > > > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by > > Michael > > > > Folkson[6], Keagan > > > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon > > > Black[11], Antoine > > > > >> Riard[12], > > > > >> Ava Chow[14] > > > > >> > > > > >> - Michael Folkson* > > > > >> > > > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour > > and Greg > > > Tonoski for > > > > >> "non-dev > > > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] > > for "BIP > > > > editor", and > > > > >> Antoine > > > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for > > "decentralized PM". > > > > >> > > > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to > > see if > > > any of > > > > the above > > > > >> candidates had been especially active > there, > > > which is > > > > listed > > > > >> below as: > > > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still > > > open/number > > > > closed). > > > > >> > > > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > > > >> > > > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only > > member > > > of the > > > > set to > > > > >> have a > > > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, > > although I believe > > > > there are > > > > >> far-along > > > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) > and > > > Somsen (Silent > > > > >> Payments). I > > > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, > > but I > > > do think it > > > > >> demonstrates > > > > >> familiarity with the process. > > > > >> > > > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of > the > > > candidates > > > > above with > > > > >> multiple recommendations from other > community > > > > participants are > > > > >> fully > > > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only > > provide a > > > detailed > > > > >> justification > > > > >> for the person who would be my first > > pick: Murch > > > is not > > > > only a > > > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin > > > contributor, but > > > > (as Corallo > > > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing > > > terminology > > > > through a > > > > >> draft > > > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an > > extremely detailed > > > > review of > > > > >> all 300 > > > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd > > > edition) and has > > > > >> reviewed > > > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech > > newsletters, in > > > both cases > > > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > > > > comprehensibility of the > > > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very > > similar to the > > > > work we'd > > > > >> ask him > > > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's > > something that > > > > he's already > > > > >> doing, > > > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of > > person to > > > role. > > > > >> > > > > >> -Dave > > > > >> > > > > >> [1] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>> > > > > > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>>> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [2] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>> > > > > > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>> > > > > > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ > >>>> > > > > >> [3] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [4] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [5] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [6] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [7] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [8] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [9] > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>> > > > > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/ > >>>> > > > > >> [10] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [11] > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>> > > > > >> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>> > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/> > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>> > > > > >> [12] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [13] > > > > >> > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>> > > > > > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/> > > > > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ > >>> > > > > > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > >>>> > > > > >> [14] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>> > > > > > > > > > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>>> < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [15] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [16] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> [17] > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > < > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ > >>>> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> You received this message because you are > > subscribed > > > to the > > > > Google > > > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" > group. > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop > > receiving emails > > > > from it, > > > > >> send an email to > > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>> > > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>> > > > > >> > > <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>> > > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>>>. > > > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>>> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > >>>>. > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> Sergi. > > > > >> > > > > >> -- > > > > >> You received this message because you are > > subscribed to > > > the Google > > > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group. > > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving > > emails from > > > > it, send > > > > >> an email to > > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>> > > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>> > > > > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>> > > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com > > <mailto:bitcoindev%25252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>>>. > > > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com>> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com>>> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>> > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer > < > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > < > 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* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors 2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson 2024-04-20 23:05 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List 1 sibling, 1 reply; 100+ messages in thread From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-20 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Ava Chow; +Cc: Steve Lee, bitcoindev Ava > Obviously a revert war would be a problem, but I don't think it would come down to that, and in that case, participants in that should be promptly removed. It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that. Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and wants to revert the merge? I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts. These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information and guidance on this. > BIPs is also a fairly low risk repo as it's just documentation. Lower risk than say the Bitcoin Core repo sure but just throwing a large number of new editors at it makes it seem like you don't care what happens there. I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to give him commit access again? I'd be more comfortable with him overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all. Thanks Michael On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote: > > Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this > > responsibility without being paid? > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him > about being a BIPs editor. > > > I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they > > want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it? > > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2] > have also replied to this thread about this. > > Ava > > [1]: > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ > [2]: > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ > > > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote: > > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform > > everyone of what will happen on Monday. > > > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email. > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack, > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday > > April 22nd. > > > > Ava > > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List > > wrote: > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit > > objections > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be > > endorsed > > > by many others. > > > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current > > > counts are: > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against > > > * Murch - 13 for > > > * Jonatack - 13 for > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for > > > * Michael Folkson - none > > > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this > > process > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone > > really > > > wants to deal with. > > > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have > > posted > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have > > reached out > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not > > > received a response from Roasbeef. > > > > > > Ava > > > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote: > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this > > task, so > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > > >> majority. > > >> > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. > > Having > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in > > which people > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not > > end up > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far > > from > > >> their expectations. > > >> > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and > > we need > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and > > slacking off). > > >> > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from. > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on > > their track > > >> record in the space > > >> > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote: > > >> > > >> +1 for > > >> Kanzure > > >> RubenSomsen > > >> Seccour > > >> Jon Atack > > >> Roasbeef > > >> > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group > > >> majority. > > >> > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas. > > >> > > >> I'd like to return to that. > > >> > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account) > > >> > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. > > Harding wrote: > > >> > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote: > > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply > > saying "I > > >> like Bob!". > > >> > > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the > > following appears > > >> to be > > >> the candidate list along with the current support. > > Asterisks denote > > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept > > the role. > > >> > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > >> Stewart[3], > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], > > Brandon > > >> Black[11], > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > >> Michael > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine > > Poinsot[15], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris > > Stewart[3], > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7], > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John > > >> Carvalho[16] > > >> > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris > > >> Stewart[3], John > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], > > Antoine > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14] > > >> > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael > > Folkson[6], Keagan > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine > > >> Riard[12], > > >> Ava Chow[14] > > >> > > >> - Michael Folkson* > > >> > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for > > >> "non-dev > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP > > editor", and > > >> Antoine > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM". > > >> > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of > > the above > > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is > > listed > > >> below as: > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number > > closed). > > >> > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson > > >> > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the > > set to > > >> have a > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe > > there are > > >> far-along > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent > > >> Payments). I > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it > > >> demonstrates > > >> familiarity with the process. > > >> > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates > > above with > > >> multiple recommendations from other community > > participants are > > >> fully > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed > > >> justification > > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not > > only a > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but > > (as Corallo > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology > > through a > > >> draft > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed > > review of > > >> all 300 > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has > > >> reviewed > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and > > comprehensibility of the > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the > > work we'd > > >> ask him > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that > > he's already > > >> doing, > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role. > > >> > > >> -Dave > > >> > > >> [1] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> > > >> [2] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> > > >> [3] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> > > >> [4] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> > > >> [5] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> > > >> [6] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> > > >> [7] > > >> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> > > >> [8] > > >> > >