* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK
2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson
` (4 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: NVK @ 2024-04-20 19:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
Good number of people.
Looking forward and congrats.
> On Apr 20, 2024, at 14:30, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
>
> Ava
>
>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>> wrote:
>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections
>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
>> by many others.
>>
>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>> counts are:
>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>> * Murch - 13 for
>> * Jonatack - 13 for
>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>> * Roasbeef - 9 for
>> * Michael Folkson - none
>>
>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really
>> wants to deal with.
>>
>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out
>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>> received a response from Roasbeef.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>> majority.
>>>
>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people
>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
>>> their expectations.
>>>
>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need
>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off).
>>>
>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track
>>> record in the space
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 for
>>> Kanzure
>>> RubenSomsen
>>> Seccour
>>> Jon Atack
>>> Roasbeef
>>>
>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>> majority.
>>>
>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>
>>> I'd like to return to that.
>>>
>>> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>
>>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>> Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
>>> like Bob!".
>>>
>>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears
>>> to be
>>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote
>>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
>>>
>>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>> Stewart[3],
>>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
>>> Black[11],
>>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>
>>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3],
>>> Michael
>>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>
>>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
>>> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>
>>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>> Stewart[3], John
>>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
>>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>
>>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan
>>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>> Riard[12],
>>> Ava Chow[14]
>>>
>>> - Michael Folkson*
>>>
>>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>> "non-dev
>>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and
>>> Antoine
>>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>
>>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above
>>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
>>> below as:
>>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
>>>
>>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>
>>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to
>>> have a
>>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
>>> far-along
>>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>> Payments). I
>>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>> demonstrates
>>> familiarity with the process.
>>>
>>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with
>>> multiple recommendations from other community participants are
>>> fully
>>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>> justification
>>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
>>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo
>>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a
>>> draft
>>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of
>>> all 300
>>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>> reviewed
>>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the
>>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd
>>> ask him
>>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already
>>> doing,
>>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
>>> [2]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
>>> [3]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [4]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
>>> [5]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [6]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [7]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [8]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
>>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
>>> [10]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
>>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>> [12]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
>>> [13]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
>>> [14]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
>>> [15]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
>>> [16]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [17]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sergi.
>>>
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>>
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>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com.
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK
@ 2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson
2024-04-20 20:59 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee
` (3 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-20 19:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow, luke; +Cc: bitcoindev
Ava
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
April 22nd.
Is Luke happy with this? That is a lot of new editors to onboard. I
suspect you'd push back against adding 5 maintainers overnight to
Bitcoin Core and I'm not sure why this is any different. What happens
if there is disagreement between these now 6 BIP editors on merge
decisions? If Luke is fine with this ok but it seems like the BIPs
repo is going to be a free for all from now on.
Thanks
Michael
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
>
> Ava
>
> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> wrote:
> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections
> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
> > by many others.
> >
> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> > counts are:
> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > * Murch - 13 for
> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >
> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really
> > wants to deal with.
> >
> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out
> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >> majority.
> >>
> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people
> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
> >> their expectations.
> >>
> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need
> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off).
> >>
> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track
> >> record in the space
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 for
> >> Kanzure
> >> RubenSomsen
> >> Seccour
> >> Jon Atack
> >> Roasbeef
> >>
> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >> majority.
> >>
> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> >>
> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>
> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>
> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
> >> like Bob!".
> >>
> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears
> >> to be
> >> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote
> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
> >>
> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >> Stewart[3],
> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> >> Black[11],
> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3],
> >> Michael
> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> >> Stewart[3], John
> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>
> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan
> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> >> Riard[12],
> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>
> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>
> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> >> "non-dev
> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and
> >> Antoine
> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> >>
> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above
> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
> >> below as:
> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
> >>
> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>
> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to
> >> have a
> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
> >> far-along
> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> >> Payments). I
> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> >> demonstrates
> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>
> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with
> >> multiple recommendations from other community participants are
> >> fully
> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> >> justification
> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo
> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a
> >> draft
> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of
> >> all 300
> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> >> reviewed
> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> >> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the
> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd
> >> ask him
> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already
> >> doing,
> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> >>
> >> -Dave
> >>
> >> [1]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
> >> [2]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
> >> [3]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
> >> [4]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
> >> [5]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
> >> [6]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
> >> [7]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
> >> [8]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
> >> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> >> [10]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
> >> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> >> [12]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
> >> [13]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
> >> [14]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
> >> [15]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> >> [16]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
> >> [17]
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sergi.
> >>
> >> --
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> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
> >
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson
@ 2024-04-20 20:59 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
0 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 20:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Folkson, luke; +Cc: bitcoindev
On 04/20/2024 03:59 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> Is Luke happy with this? That is a lot of new editors to onboard. I
> suspect you'd push back against adding 5 maintainers overnight to
> Bitcoin Core and I'm not sure why this is any different. What happens
> if there is disagreement between these now 6 BIP editors on merge
> decisions? If Luke is fine with this ok but it seems like the BIPs
> repo is going to be a free for all from now on.
My understanding is that he is okay with it, and I've talked to him
privately numerous times about this since this thread was started.
This is different from Bitcoin Core in that there is currently only one
BIP editor who has clearly stated more editors are needed. BIPs is also
a fairly low risk repo as it's just documentation.
The expectation is that each editor will be able to work independently;
obviously they should be communicating, but it's not a committee. I'm
sure there will be some disagreement eventually, but ultimately, I think
all of the candidates are professionals who can handle that maturely.
Obviously a revert war would be a problem, but I don't think it would
come down to that, and in that case, participants in that should be
promptly removed.
Ava
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 8:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>>
>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
>> April 22nd.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>> wrote:
>>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections
>>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
>>> by many others.
>>>
>>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>>> counts are:
>>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>>> * Murch - 13 for
>>> * Jonatack - 13 for
>>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>>> * Roasbeef - 9 for
>>> * Michael Folkson - none
>>>
>>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
>>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really
>>> wants to deal with.
>>>
>>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
>>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out
>>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>>> received a response from Roasbeef.
>>>
>>> Ava
>>>
>>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>> majority.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
>>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people
>>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
>>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
>>>> their expectations.
>>>>
>>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need
>>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off).
>>>>
>>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track
>>>> record in the space
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1 for
>>>> Kanzure
>>>> RubenSomsen
>>>> Seccour
>>>> Jon Atack
>>>> Roasbeef
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>> majority.
>>>>
>>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to return to that.
>>>>
>>>> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
>>>> like Bob!".
>>>>
>>>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears
>>>> to be
>>>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote
>>>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
>>>>
>>>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>> Stewart[3],
>>>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
>>>> Black[11],
>>>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3],
>>>> Michael
>>>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
>>>> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>>> Stewart[3], John
>>>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
>>>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>>
>>>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan
>>>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>>> Riard[12],
>>>> Ava Chow[14]
>>>>
>>>> - Michael Folkson*
>>>>
>>>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>>> "non-dev
>>>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and
>>>> Antoine
>>>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>>
>>>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above
>>>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
>>>> below as:
>>>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
>>>>
>>>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>>
>>>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to
>>>> have a
>>>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
>>>> far-along
>>>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>>> Payments). I
>>>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>>> demonstrates
>>>> familiarity with the process.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with
>>>> multiple recommendations from other community participants are
>>>> fully
>>>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>>> justification
>>>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
>>>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo
>>>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a
>>>> draft
>>>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of
>>>> all 300
>>>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>>> reviewed
>>>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the
>>>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd
>>>> ask him
>>>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already
>>>> doing,
>>>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>>
>>>> -Dave
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [4]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
>>>> [5]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [6]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [7]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [8]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
>>>> [10]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
>>>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>>> [12]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>> [13]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
>>>> [14]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
>>>> [15]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
>>>> [16]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [17]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
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>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sergi.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>>
>>> --
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>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 19:48 ` NVK
2024-04-20 19:59 ` Michael Folkson
@ 2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee
2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-21 23:01 ` Matt Corallo
` (2 subsequent siblings)
5 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 20:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 14712 bytes --]
Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
responsibility without being paid?
I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they want
the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing
List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
>
> Ava
>
> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> wrote:
> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections
> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
> > by many others.
> >
> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> > counts are:
> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > * Murch - 13 for
> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >
> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really
> > wants to deal with.
> >
> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out
> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >> majority.
> >>
> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people
> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
> >> their expectations.
> >>
> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need
> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking
> off).
> >>
> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track
> >> record in the space
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 for
> >> Kanzure
> >> RubenSomsen
> >> Seccour
> >> Jon Atack
> >> Roasbeef
> >>
> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >> majority.
> >>
> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> >>
> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>
> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>
> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
> >> like Bob!".
> >>
> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following
> appears
> >> to be
> >> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks
> denote
> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
> >>
> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >> Stewart[3],
> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> >> Black[11],
> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3],
> >> Michael
> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15],
> John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> >> Stewart[3], John
> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>
> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6],
> Keagan
> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> >> Riard[12],
> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>
> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>
> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> >> "non-dev
> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and
> >> Antoine
> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> >>
> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the
> above
> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
> >> below as:
> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
> >>
> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>
> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to
> >> have a
> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
> >> far-along
> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> >> Payments). I
> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> >> demonstrates
> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>
> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above
> with
> >> multiple recommendations from other community participants are
> >> fully
> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> >> justification
> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as
> Corallo
> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a
> >> draft
> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of
> >> all 300
> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> >> reviewed
> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> >> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of
> the
> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd
> >> ask him
> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's
> already
> >> doing,
> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> >>
> >> -Dave
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> >
> >> [2]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> >
> >> [3]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> >
> >> [4]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> >
> >> [5]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> >
> >> [6]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> >
> >> [7]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> >
> >> [8]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> >
> >> [9]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> >> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> >> [10]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> >
> >> [11]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> >> [12]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> >
> >> [13]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >
> >> [14]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> >
> >> [15]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> >
> >> [16]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> >
> >> [17]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> >
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sergi.
> >>
> >> --
> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >.
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com
> .
>
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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 23967 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee
@ 2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee
2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson
0 siblings, 2 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 21:08 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Steve Lee; +Cc: bitcoindev
On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> responsibility without being paid?
I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
about being a BIPs editor.
> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
have also replied to this thread about this.
Ava
[1]:
https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
[2]:
https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>
> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
>
> Ava
>
> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> wrote:
> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> objections
> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> endorsed
> > by many others.
> >
> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> > counts are:
> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > * Murch - 13 for
> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >
> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
> process
> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
> really
> > wants to deal with.
> >
> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
> posted
> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> reached out
> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> task, so
> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >> majority.
> >>
> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
> Having
> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> which people
> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
> end up
> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
> from
> >> their expectations.
> >>
> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
> we need
> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> slacking off).
> >>
> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> their track
> >> record in the space
> >>
> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
> >>
> >> +1 for
> >> Kanzure
> >> RubenSomsen
> >> Seccour
> >> Jon Atack
> >> Roasbeef
> >>
> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >> majority.
> >>
> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> >>
> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>
> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>
> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> Harding wrote:
> >>
> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> saying "I
> >> like Bob!".
> >>
> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> following appears
> >> to be
> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> Asterisks denote
> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> the role.
> >>
> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >> Stewart[3],
> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> Brandon
> >> Black[11],
> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> Stewart[3],
> >> Michael
> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> Poinsot[15], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> Stewart[3],
> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>
> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> >> Stewart[3], John
> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
> Antoine
> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>
> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> Folkson[6], Keagan
> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> >> Riard[12],
> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>
> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>
> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> >> "non-dev
> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> editor", and
> >> Antoine
> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> >>
> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
> the above
> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
> listed
> >> below as:
> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
> closed).
> >>
> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>
> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
> set to
> >> have a
> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> there are
> >> far-along
> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> >> Payments). I
> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> >> demonstrates
> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>
> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
> above with
> >> multiple recommendations from other community
> participants are
> >> fully
> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> >> justification
> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
> only a
> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
> (as Corallo
> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
> through a
> >> draft
> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> review of
> >> all 300
> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> >> reviewed
> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> comprehensibility of the
> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> work we'd
> >> ask him
> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> he's already
> >> doing,
> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> >>
> >> -Dave
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
> >> [2]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
> >> [3]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >> [4]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
> >> [5]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
> >> [6]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >> [7]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >> [8]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >> [9]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> >>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> >> [10]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
> >> [11]
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> >>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> >> [12]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >> [13]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> >> [14]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
> >> [15]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> >> [16]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >> [17]
> >>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>
> >> --
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> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sergi.
> >>
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> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >
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> > To view this discussion on the web visit
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee
2024-04-20 21:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson
1 sibling, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 21:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 22230 bytes --]
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:08 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> > Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> > responsibility without being paid?
>
> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> about being a BIPs editor.
>
You should read this thread then before making a decision.
>
> > I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
> > want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to
> it?
>
> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> have also replied to this thread about this.
Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so everyone was
aware.
>
> Ava
>
> [1]:
>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> [2]:
>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
>
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >
> > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have
> there
> > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last
> email.
> > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> > April 22nd.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing
> List
> > wrote:
> > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add
> at
> > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of
> the
> > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> > objections
> > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't
> share
> > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> > endorsed
> > > by many others.
> > >
> > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the
> current
> > > counts are:
> > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > > * Murch - 13 for
> > > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > > * Michael Folkson - none
> > >
> > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest
> and
> > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
> > process
> > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any
> of
> > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5
> who
> > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this
> list
> > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
> > really
> > > wants to deal with.
> > >
> > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
> > posted
> > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> > reached out
> > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure
> and
> > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> > > received a response from Roasbeef.
> > >
> > > Ava
> > >
> > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> > task, so
> > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the
> group
> > >> majority.
> > >>
> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
> > Having
> > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> > which people
> > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
> > end up
> > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does
> not
> > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end
> up
> > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
> > from
> > >> their expectations.
> > >>
> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better,
> and
> > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
> > we need
> > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> > slacking off).
> > >>
> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> > their track
> > >> record in the space
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> +1 for
> > >> Kanzure
> > >> RubenSomsen
> > >> Seccour
> > >> Jon Atack
> > >> Roasbeef
> > >>
> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the
> group
> > >> majority.
> > >>
> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce
> ideas.
> > >>
> > >> I'd like to return to that.
> > >>
> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> > >>
> > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> > Harding wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> > saying "I
> > >> like Bob!".
> > >>
> > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> > following appears
> > >> to be
> > >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> > Asterisks denote
> > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> > the role.
> > >>
> > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1],
> Chris
> > >> Stewart[3],
> > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> > Brandon
> > >> Black[11],
> > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> > Stewart[3],
> > >> Michael
> > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > Poinsot[15], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> > Stewart[3],
> > >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> > >> Stewart[3], John
> > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
> > Antoine
> > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> > >>
> > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> > Folkson[6], Keagan
> > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11],
> Antoine
> > >> Riard[12],
> > >> Ava Chow[14]
> > >>
> > >> - Michael Folkson*
> > >>
> > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski
> for
> > >> "non-dev
> > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> > editor", and
> > >> Antoine
> > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> > >>
> > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
> > the above
> > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
> > listed
> > >> below as:
> > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
> > closed).
> > >>
> > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> > >>
> > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
> > set to
> > >> have a
> > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> > there are
> > >> far-along
> > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen
> (Silent
> > >> Payments). I
> > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do
> think it
> > >> demonstrates
> > >> familiarity with the process.
> > >>
> > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
> > above with
> > >> multiple recommendations from other community
> > participants are
> > >> fully
> > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> > >> justification
> > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
> > only a
> > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
> > (as Corallo
> > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
> > through a
> > >> draft
> > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> > review of
> > >> all 300
> > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and
> has
> > >> reviewed
> > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both
> cases
> > >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> > comprehensibility of the
> > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> > work we'd
> > >> ask him
> > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> > he's already
> > >> doing,
> > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> > >>
> > >> -Dave
> > >>
> > >> [1]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> >>
> > >> [2]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> >>
> > >> [3]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> > >> [4]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> >>
> > >> [5]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> > >> [6]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> > >> [7]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> > >> [8]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> >>
> > >> [9]
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > >>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> > >> [10]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> >>
> > >> [11]
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > >>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > >> [12]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> >>
> > >> [13]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>
> > >> [14]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> >>
> > >> [15]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> >>
> > >> [16]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> > >> [17]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> > >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >>
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >>.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sergi.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> Google
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> > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
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> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> > >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >>
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >>.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> >.
> >
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> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com
> >.
> >
>
>
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[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 40539 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee
@ 2024-04-20 21:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 22:03 ` Steve Lee
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Steve Lee; +Cc: bitcoindev
On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
>
> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> about being a BIPs editor.
>
>
> You should read this thread then before making a decision.
Thank you for your snarky reply.
I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+ emails
in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've
missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10 minutes
searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure or
anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If
you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this
evidence.
> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> have also replied to this thread about this.
>
>
> Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so everyone was
> aware.
You should read this thread before making such assumptions.
I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and
got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with Jonatack
and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've
read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their willingness.
Ava
[1]:
https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/
>
>
>
> Ava
>
> [1]:
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/>
> [2]:
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
>
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>> wrote:
> >
> > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to
> inform
> > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >
> > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor
> have there
> > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my
> last email.
> > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch,
> Jonatack,
> > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on
> Monday
> > April 22nd.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> Mailing List
> > wrote:
> > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot
> to add at
> > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which
> subset of the
> > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen
> an actual
> > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> > objections
> > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people
> don't share
> > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> > endorsed
> > > by many others.
> > >
> > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received,
> the current
> > > counts are:
> > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > > * Murch - 13 for
> > > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > > * Michael Folkson - none
> > >
> > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity
> contest and
> > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that
> this
> > process
> > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are
> added - by
> > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections
> to any of
> > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding
> the 5 who
> > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from
> this list
> > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think
> anyone
> > really
> > > wants to deal with.
> > >
> > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor
> Roasbeef have
> > posted
> > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> > reached out
> > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from
> Kanzure and
> > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I
> have not
> > > received a response from Roasbeef.
> > >
> > > Ava
> > >
> > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> > task, so
> > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten
> by the group
> > >> majority.
> > >>
> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better
> here.
> > Having
> > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> > which people
> > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they
> do not
> > end up
> > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it.
> This does not
> > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones
> that end up
> > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being
> too far
> > from
> > >> their expectations.
> > >>
> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is
> better, and
> > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being
> excessive and
> > we need
> > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> > slacking off).
> > >>
> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> > their track
> > >> record in the space
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>
> > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> +1 for
> > >> Kanzure
> > >> RubenSomsen
> > >> Seccour
> > >> Jon Atack
> > >> Roasbeef
> > >>
> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> task, so
> > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten
> by the group
> > >> majority.
> > >>
> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not
> enforce ideas.
> > >>
> > >> I'd like to return to that.
> > >>
> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> > >>
> > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> > Harding wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> > saying "I
> > >> like Bob!".
> > >>
> > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> > following appears
> > >> to be
> > >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> > Asterisks denote
> > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> > the role.
> > >>
> > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava
> Chow[1], Chris
> > >> Stewart[3],
> > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> > Brandon
> > >> Black[11],
> > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> Poinsot[15], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> > Stewart[3],
> > >> Michael
> > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > Poinsot[15], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> > Stewart[3],
> > >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava
> Chow[14], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by
> Chris
> > >> Stewart[3], John
> > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan
> McClelland[8],
> > Antoine
> > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> > >>
> > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> > Folkson[6], Keagan
> > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> Black[11], Antoine
> > >> Riard[12],
> > >> Ava Chow[14]
> > >>
> > >> - Michael Folkson*
> > >>
> > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg
> Tonoski for
> > >> "non-dev
> > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> > editor", and
> > >> Antoine
> > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> > >>
> > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if
> any of
> > the above
> > >> candidates had been especially active there,
> which is
> > listed
> > >> below as:
> > >> total PRs they commented on (number still
> open/number
> > closed).
> > >>
> > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> > >>
> > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member
> of the
> > set to
> > >> have a
> > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> > there are
> > >> far-along
> > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and
> Somsen (Silent
> > >> Payments). I
> > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I
> do think it
> > >> demonstrates
> > >> familiarity with the process.
> > >>
> > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the
> candidates
> > above with
> > >> multiple recommendations from other community
> > participants are
> > >> fully
> > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a
> detailed
> > >> justification
> > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch
> is not
> > only a
> > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin
> contributor, but
> > (as Corallo
> > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing
> terminology
> > through a
> > >> draft
> > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> > review of
> > >> all 300
> > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd
> edition) and has
> > >> reviewed
> > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in
> both cases
> > >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> > comprehensibility of the
> > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> > work we'd
> > >> ask him
> > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> > he's already
> > >> doing,
> > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to
> role.
> > >>
> > >> -Dave
> > >>
> > >> [1]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>>
> > >> [2]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>>
> > >> [3]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>>
> > >> [4]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>>
> > >> [5]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>>
> > >> [6]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>>
> > >> [7]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>>
> > >> [8]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>>
> > >> [9]
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>
> > >>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>>
> > >> [10]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>>
> > >> [11]
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > >>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>
> > >> [12]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>>
> > >> [13]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>>
> > >> [14]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>>
> > >> [15]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>>
> > >> [16]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>>
> > >> [17]
> > >>
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed
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> > >>
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>>.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Sergi.
> > >>
> > >> --
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 21:37 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-20 22:03 ` Steve Lee
2024-04-20 22:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-20 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 35232 bytes --]
nsvrn posted a days ago. Here's the tweet
https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053
Ava, I'm just requesting people acknowledge legitimate concerns raised and
be transparent. Do you disagree?
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> >
> > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> > about being a BIPs editor.
> >
> >
> > You should read this thread then before making a decision.
>
> Thank you for your snarky reply.
>
> I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+ emails
> in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've
> missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10 minutes
> searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure or
> anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If
> you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this
> evidence.
>
> > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed
> to
> > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> > have also replied to this thread about this.
> >
> >
> > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so everyone was
> > aware.
>
> You should read this thread before making such assumptions.
>
> I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and
> got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with Jonatack
> and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've
> read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their willingness.
>
> Ava
>
> [1]:
>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > [1]:
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> >
> > [2]:
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >
> >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin
> Development
> > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to
> > inform
> > > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> > >
> > > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor
> > have there
> > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my
> > last email.
> > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch,
> > Jonatack,
> > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on
> > Monday
> > > April 22nd.
> > >
> > > Ava
> > >
> > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> > Mailing List
> > > wrote:
> > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot
> > to add at
> > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which
> > subset of the
> > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen
> > an actual
> > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no
> explicit
> > > objections
> > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people
> > don't share
> > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue
> to be
> > > endorsed
> > > > by many others.
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received,
> > the current
> > > > counts are:
> > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > > > * Murch - 13 for
> > > > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > > > * Michael Folkson - none
> > > >
> > > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity
> > contest and
> > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that
> > this
> > > process
> > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are
> > added - by
> > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections
> > to any of
> > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding
> > the 5 who
> > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from
> > this list
> > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think
> > anyone
> > > really
> > > > wants to deal with.
> > > >
> > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor
> > Roasbeef have
> > > posted
> > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I
> have
> > > reached out
> > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from
> > Kanzure and
> > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but
> public
> > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I
> > have not
> > > > received a response from Roasbeef.
> > > >
> > > > Ava
> > > >
> > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on
> this
> > > task, so
> > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten
> > by the group
> > > >> majority.
> > > >>
> > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better
> > here.
> > > Having
> > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons,
> in
> > > which people
> > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they
> > do not
> > > end up
> > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it.
> > This does not
> > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones
> > that end up
> > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being
> > too far
> > > from
> > > >> their expectations.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is
> > better, and
> > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being
> > excessive and
> > > we need
> > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining
> and
> > > slacking off).
> > > >>
> > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start
> from.
> > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based
> on
> > > their track
> > > >> record in the space
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>
> > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> +1 for
> > > >> Kanzure
> > > >> RubenSomsen
> > > >> Seccour
> > > >> Jon Atack
> > > >> Roasbeef
> > > >>
> > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> > task, so
> > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten
> > by the group
> > > >> majority.
> > > >>
> > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not
> > enforce ideas.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'd like to return to that.
> > > >>
> > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> > > >>
> > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> > > Harding wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > > >> > Please provide justification rather than
> simply
> > > saying "I
> > > >> like Bob!".
> > > >>
> > > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> > > following appears
> > > >> to be
> > > >> the candidate list along with the current
> support.
> > > Asterisks denote
> > > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to
> accept
> > > the role.
> > > >>
> > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava
> > Chow[1], Chris
> > > >> Stewart[3],
> > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt
> Corallo[10],
> > > Brandon
> > > >> Black[11],
> > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > Poinsot[15], John
> > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> > > Stewart[3],
> > > >> Michael
> > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > > Poinsot[15], John
> > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2],
> Chris
> > > Stewart[3],
> > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava
> > Chow[14], John
> > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by
> > Chris
> > > >> Stewart[3], John
> > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan
> > McClelland[8],
> > > Antoine
> > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> > > Folkson[6], Keagan
> > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> > Black[11], Antoine
> > > >> Riard[12],
> > > >> Ava Chow[14]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Michael Folkson*
> > > >>
> > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg
> > Tonoski for
> > > >> "non-dev
> > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> > > editor", and
> > > >> Antoine
> > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized
> PM".
> > > >>
> > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if
> > any of
> > > the above
> > > >> candidates had been especially active there,
> > which is
> > > listed
> > > >> below as:
> > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still
> > open/number
> > > closed).
> > > >>
> > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> > > >>
> > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member
> > of the
> > > set to
> > > >> have a
> > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I
> believe
> > > there are
> > > >> far-along
> > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and
> > Somsen (Silent
> > > >> Payments). I
> > > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I
> > do think it
> > > >> demonstrates
> > > >> familiarity with the process.
> > > >>
> > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the
> > candidates
> > > above with
> > > >> multiple recommendations from other community
> > > participants are
> > > >> fully
> > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a
> > detailed
> > > >> justification
> > > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch
> > is not
> > > only a
> > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin
> > contributor, but
> > > (as Corallo
> > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing
> > terminology
> > > through a
> > > >> draft
> > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely
> detailed
> > > review of
> > > >> all 300
> > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd
> > edition) and has
> > > >> reviewed
> > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in
> > both cases
> > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> > > comprehensibility of the
> > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to
> the
> > > work we'd
> > > >> ask him
> > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something
> that
> > > he's already
> > > >> doing,
> > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to
> > role.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Dave
> > > >>
> > > >> [1]
> > > >>
> > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [2]
> > > >>
> > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> >>>
> > > >> [3]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [4]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [5]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [6]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [7]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [8]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [9]
> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>
> > > >>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>>
> > > >> [10]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [11]
> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > > >>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>
> > > >> [12]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [13]
> > > >>
> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>>
> > > >> [14]
> > > >>
> > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [15]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [16]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>
> > > >> [17]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> >>>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed
> > to the
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> > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving
> emails
> > > from it,
> > > >> send an email to
> > bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>
> > > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>>.
> > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> > >
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >>>.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> Sergi.
> > > >>
> > > >> --
> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to
> > the Google
> > > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> from
> > > it, send
> > > >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>
> > > >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>>.
> > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com>>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >>>.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > > Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> > from it,
> > > send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev%252Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit
> > >
> >
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> >>.
> > >
> > > --
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 22:03 ` Steve Lee
@ 2024-04-20 22:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-22 2:44 ` Steve Lee
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 22:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Steve Lee; +Cc: bitcoindev
I saw that email and read the tweet. It doesn't seem to me that nsvrn
was raising an objection to Kanzure, just pointing out something for
people to consider. No one else has said anything, so I'm assuming that
no minds have changed considering this information. It'd be ridiculous
if every time new information was presented that we went to everyone and
ask them whether their stance has changed. It's all the same email
thread, if their mind has changed, then they can inform us as a reply.
Furthermore, I fail to see how this tweet matches your claim that he
"does not want this responsibility without being paid". Saying that he
has better things to do with his time doesn't necessarily mean that he
won't do it, and other such tweets, including his own replies to this
one, indicate the he is.
If your concern is about his reply to the suggestion that being paid
would change things substantially, I still don't see how that matches
the statement you made earlier. Being paid to do any task would change
the calculus on whether someone wants to do something, but that doesn't
mean they won't do it even if unpaid.
Ava
On 04/20/2024 06:03 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> nsvrn posted a days ago. Here's the tweet
> https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053
> <https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053>
>
> Ava, I'm just requesting people acknowledge legitimate concerns raised
> and be transparent. Do you disagree?
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com
> <mailto:lists@achow101•com>> wrote:
>
> On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> >
> > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've
> talked to him
> > about being a BIPs editor.
> >
> >
> > You should read this thread then before making a decision.
>
> Thank you for your snarky reply.
>
> I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+
> emails
> in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've
> missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10
> minutes
> searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure or
> anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If
> you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this
> evidence.
>
> > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all
> confirmed to
> > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and
> Murch[2]
> > have also replied to this thread about this.
> >
> >
> > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so
> everyone was
> > aware.
>
> You should read this thread before making such assumptions.
>
> I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and
> got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with
> Jonatack
> and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've
> read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their willingness.
>
> Ava
>
> [1]:
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > [1]:
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/>>
> > [2]:
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> >
> > >
> > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin
> Development
> > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd
> like to
> > inform
> > > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> > >
> > > There has not been any actual objections to the
> nominees nor
> > have there
> > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my
> > last email.
> > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure,
> Murch,
> > Jonatack,
> > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be
> added on
> > Monday
> > > April 22nd.
> > >
> > > Ava
> > >
> > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> > Mailing List
> > > wrote:
> > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems
> like a lot
> > to add at
> > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which
> > subset of the
> > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only
> seen
> > an actual
> > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and
> no explicit
> > > objections
> > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of
> people
> > don't share
> > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben
> continue to be
> > > endorsed
> > > > by many others.
> > > >
> > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has
> received,
> > the current
> > > > counts are:
> > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > > > * Murch - 13 for
> > > > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > > > * Michael Folkson - none
> > > >
> > > > However, I don't want this process to become a
> popularity
> > contest and
> > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd
> prefer that
> > this
> > > process
> > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are
> > added - by
> > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit
> objections
> > to any of
> > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with
> adding
> > the 5 who
> > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick
> "winners" from
> > this list
> > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I
> don't think
> > anyone
> > > really
> > > > wants to deal with.
> > > >
> > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor
> > Roasbeef have
> > > posted
> > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP
> editors. I have
> > > reached out
> > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from
> > Kanzure and
> > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing,
> but public
> > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be
> nice. I
> > have not
> > > > received a response from Roasbeef.
> > > >
> > > > Ava
> > > >
> > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less
> folks on this
> > > task, so
> > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and
> overwritten
> > by the group
> > > >> majority.
> > > >>
> > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the
> better
> > here.
> > > Having
> > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the
> commons, in
> > > which people
> > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and
> they
> > do not
> > > end up
> > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it.
> > This does not
> > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the
> ones
> > that end up
> > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up
> being
> > too far
> > > from
> > > >> their expectations.
> > > >>
> > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of
> people is
> > better, and
> > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being
> > excessive and
> > > we need
> > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from
> joining and
> > > slacking off).
> > > >>
> > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to
> start from.
> > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben
> based on
> > > their track
> > > >> record in the space
> > > >>
> > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk
> <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>
> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>
> > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>>> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> +1 for
> > > >> Kanzure
> > > >> RubenSomsen
> > > >> Seccour
> > > >> Jon Atack
> > > >> Roasbeef
> > > >>
> > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks
> on this
> > task, so
> > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and
> overwritten
> > by the group
> > > >> majority.
> > > >>
> > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not
> > enforce ideas.
> > > >>
> > > >> I'd like to return to that.
> > > >>
> > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> > > >>
> > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4
> David A.
> > > Harding wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > > >> > Please provide justification rather
> than simply
> > > saying "I
> > > >> like Bob!".
> > > >>
> > > >> Using only comments from the mailing
> list, the
> > > following appears
> > > >> to be
> > > >> the candidate list along with the current
> support.
> > > Asterisks denote
> > > >> candidates who indicated their
> willingness to accept
> > > the role.
> > > >>
> > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava
> > Chow[1], Chris
> > > >> Stewart[3],
> > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt
> Corallo[10],
> > > Brandon
> > > >> Black[11],
> > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > Poinsot[15], John
> > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava
> Chow[1], Chris
> > > Stewart[3],
> > > >> Michael
> > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13],
> Antoine
> > > Poinsot[15], John
> > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke
> Dashjr[2], Chris
> > > Stewart[3],
> > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava
> > Chow[14], John
> > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun,
> recommended by
> > Chris
> > > >> Stewart[3], John
> > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan
> > McClelland[8],
> > > Antoine
> > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by
> Michael
> > > Folkson[6], Keagan
> > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> > Black[11], Antoine
> > > >> Riard[12],
> > > >> Ava Chow[14]
> > > >>
> > > >> - Michael Folkson*
> > > >>
> > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour
> and Greg
> > Tonoski for
> > > >> "non-dev
> > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18]
> for "BIP
> > > editor", and
> > > >> Antoine
> > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for
> "decentralized PM".
> > > >>
> > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to
> see if
> > any of
> > > the above
> > > >> candidates had been especially active there,
> > which is
> > > listed
> > > >> below as:
> > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still
> > open/number
> > > closed).
> > > >>
> > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> > > >>
> > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only
> member
> > of the
> > > set to
> > > >> have a
> > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored,
> although I believe
> > > there are
> > > >> far-along
> > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and
> > Somsen (Silent
> > > >> Payments). I
> > > >> don't think this should be a requirement,
> but I
> > do think it
> > > >> demonstrates
> > > >> familiarity with the process.
> > > >>
> > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the
> > candidates
> > > above with
> > > >> multiple recommendations from other community
> > > participants are
> > > >> fully
> > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only
> provide a
> > detailed
> > > >> justification
> > > >> for the person who would be my first
> pick: Murch
> > is not
> > > only a
> > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin
> > contributor, but
> > > (as Corallo
> > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing
> > terminology
> > > through a
> > > >> draft
> > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an
> extremely detailed
> > > review of
> > > >> all 300
> > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd
> > edition) and has
> > > >> reviewed
> > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech
> newsletters, in
> > both cases
> > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> > > comprehensibility of the
> > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very
> similar to the
> > > work we'd
> > > >> ask him
> > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's
> something that
> > > he's already
> > > >> doing,
> > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of
> person to
> > role.
> > > >>
> > > >> -Dave
> > > >>
> > > >> [1]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>>>
> > > >> [2]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>>>
> > > >> [3]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>>>
> > > >> [4]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>>>
> > > >> [5]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>>>
> > > >> [6]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>>>
> > > >> [7]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>>>
> > > >> [8]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>>>
> > > >> [9]
> > >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>
> > >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>>
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>>>
> > > >> [10]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>>>
> > > >> [11]
> > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>
> > > >>
> > >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>>
> > > >> [12]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>>>
> > > >> [13]
> > > >>
> > >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>>>
> > > >> [14]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>>
> > >
> >
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>>>
> > > >> [15]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>>>
> > > >> [16]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>>>
> > > >> [17]
> > > >>
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>>>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 22:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-22 2:44 ` Steve Lee
0 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: Steve Lee @ 2024-04-22 2:44 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 59750 bytes --]
Hi Ava,
I hadn't seen until just now your post prior to nsvrn's post which stated:
"I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted on
this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out to
all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and Ruben that
indicate that they probably are willing, but public confirmation from them
on this list would also be nice. I have not received a response from
Roasbeef."
This is exactly what I had a concern about, and I unfortunately hadn't seen
it before replying to this thread. I apologize for the unnecessary
responses from me.
Thanks for dealing with all of this and helping us drive to a conclusion.
Steve
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 3:47 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> I saw that email and read the tweet. It doesn't seem to me that nsvrn
> was raising an objection to Kanzure, just pointing out something for
> people to consider. No one else has said anything, so I'm assuming that
> no minds have changed considering this information. It'd be ridiculous
> if every time new information was presented that we went to everyone and
> ask them whether their stance has changed. It's all the same email
> thread, if their mind has changed, then they can inform us as a reply.
>
> Furthermore, I fail to see how this tweet matches your claim that he
> "does not want this responsibility without being paid". Saying that he
> has better things to do with his time doesn't necessarily mean that he
> won't do it, and other such tweets, including his own replies to this
> one, indicate the he is.
>
> If your concern is about his reply to the suggestion that being paid
> would change things substantially, I still don't see how that matches
> the statement you made earlier. Being paid to do any task would change
> the calculus on whether someone wants to do something, but that doesn't
> mean they won't do it even if unpaid.
>
> Ava
>
> On 04/20/2024 06:03 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> > nsvrn posted a days ago. Here's the tweet
> > https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053
> > <https://x.com/kanzure/status/1766888650069967053>
> >
> > Ava, I'm just requesting people acknowledge legitimate concerns raised
> > and be transparent. Do you disagree?
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 2:37 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com
> > <mailto:lists@achow101•com>> wrote:
> >
> > On 04/20/2024 05:11 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> > >
> > > I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've
> > talked to him
> > > about being a BIPs editor.
> > >
> > >
> > > You should read this thread then before making a decision.
> >
> > Thank you for your snarky reply.
> >
> > I have, in fact, read every email in this thread. But there's 80+
> > emails
> > in this thread and it's spread over 2 months, so it's possible I've
> > missed something. With that in mind, I've just spent the last 10
> > minutes
> > searching through the archive and cannot find any mention of Kanzure
> or
> > anyone else saying that he would only be a BIP editor for payment. If
> > you think I'm mistaken, I ask that you please provide a link to this
> > evidence.
> >
> > > Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all
> > confirmed to
> > > me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and
> > Murch[2]
> > > have also replied to this thread about this.
> > >
> > >
> > > Ok good to know. Would've been nice to share this here so
> > everyone was
> > > aware.
> >
> > You should read this thread before making such assumptions.
> >
> > I informed the list[1] 4 days ago that I reached out privately to and
> > got responses from Kanzure and Ruben. While I did the same with
> > Jonatack
> > and Murch, I did not feel the need to mention that because, if you've
> > read this thread, they had already publicly confirmed their
> willingness.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > [1]:
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1@achow101.com/
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ava
> > >
> > > [1]:
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> > > [2]:
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>
> > >
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin
> > Development
> > > > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>
> > > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>
> > > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>>>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd
> > like to
> > > inform
> > > > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> > > >
> > > > There has not been any actual objections to the
> > nominees nor
> > > have there
> > > > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them
> since my
> > > last email.
> > > > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure,
> > Murch,
> > > Jonatack,
> > > > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be
> > added on
> > > Monday
> > > > April 22nd.
> > > >
> > > > Ava
> > > >
> > > > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin
> Development
> > > Mailing List
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems
> > like a lot
> > > to add at
> > > > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide
> which
> > > subset of the
> > > > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only
> > seen
> > > an actual
> > > > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and
> > no explicit
> > > > objections
> > > > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of
> > people
> > > don't share
> > > > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben
> > continue to be
> > > > endorsed
> > > > > by many others.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has
> > received,
> > > the current
> > > > > counts are:
> > > > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > > > > * Murch - 13 for
> > > > > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > > > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > > > > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > > > > * Michael Folkson - none
> > > > >
> > > > > However, I don't want this process to become a
> > popularity
> > > contest and
> > > > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd
> > prefer that
> > > this
> > > > process
> > > > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers
> are
> > > added - by
> > > > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit
> > objections
> > > to any of
> > > > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with
> > adding
> > > the 5 who
> > > > > have received endorsements. Having to pick
> > "winners" from
> > > this list
> > > > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I
> > don't think
> > > anyone
> > > > really
> > > > > wants to deal with.
> > > > >
> > > > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor
> > > Roasbeef have
> > > > posted
> > > > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP
> > editors. I have
> > > > reached out
> > > > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses
> from
> > > Kanzure and
> > > > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing,
> > but public
> > > > > confirmation from them on this list would also be
> > nice. I
> > > have not
> > > > > received a response from Roasbeef.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ava
> > > > >
> > > > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> > > > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less
> > folks on this
> > > > task, so
> > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and
> > overwritten
> > > by the group
> > > > >> majority.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the
> > better
> > > here.
> > > > Having
> > > > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the
> > commons, in
> > > > which people
> > > > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and
> > they
> > > do not
> > > > end up
> > > > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the
> it.
> > > This does not
> > > > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the
> > ones
> > > that end up
> > > > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up
> > being
> > > too far
> > > > from
> > > > >> their expectations.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of
> > people is
> > > better, and
> > > > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being
> > > excessive and
> > > > we need
> > > > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from
> > joining and
> > > > slacking off).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to
> > start from.
> > > > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben
> > based on
> > > > their track
> > > > >> record in the space
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk
> > <rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>
> > > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>
> > > > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>
> > > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>>> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> +1 for
> > > > >> Kanzure
> > > > >> RubenSomsen
> > > > >> Seccour
> > > > >> Jon Atack
> > > > >> Roasbeef
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks
> > on this
> > > task, so
> > > > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and
> > overwritten
> > > by the group
> > > > >> majority.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not
> > > enforce ideas.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'd like to return to that.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4
> > David A.
> > > > Harding wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > > > >> > Please provide justification rather
> > than simply
> > > > saying "I
> > > > >> like Bob!".
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Using only comments from the mailing
> > list, the
> > > > following appears
> > > > >> to be
> > > > >> the candidate list along with the current
> > support.
> > > > Asterisks denote
> > > > >> candidates who indicated their
> > willingness to accept
> > > > the role.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by
> Ava
> > > Chow[1], Chris
> > > > >> Stewart[3],
> > > > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt
> > Corallo[10],
> > > > Brandon
> > > > >> Black[11],
> > > > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > > Poinsot[15], John
> > > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava
> > Chow[1], Chris
> > > > Stewart[3],
> > > > >> Michael
> > > > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13],
> > Antoine
> > > > Poinsot[15], John
> > > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke
> > Dashjr[2], Chris
> > > > Stewart[3],
> > > > >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> > > > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava
> > > Chow[14], John
> > > > >> Carvalho[16]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun,
> > recommended by
> > > Chris
> > > > >> Stewart[3], John
> > > > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan
> > > McClelland[8],
> > > > Antoine
> > > > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by
> > Michael
> > > > Folkson[6], Keagan
> > > > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> > > Black[11], Antoine
> > > > >> Riard[12],
> > > > >> Ava Chow[14]
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - Michael Folkson*
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour
> > and Greg
> > > Tonoski for
> > > > >> "non-dev
> > > > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18]
> > for "BIP
> > > > editor", and
> > > > >> Antoine
> > > > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for
> > "decentralized PM".
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to
> > see if
> > > any of
> > > > the above
> > > > >> candidates had been especially active
> there,
> > > which is
> > > > listed
> > > > >> below as:
> > > > >> total PRs they commented on (number still
> > > open/number
> > > > closed).
> > > > >>
> > > > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> > > > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> > > > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> > > > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> > > > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> > > > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only
> > member
> > > of the
> > > > set to
> > > > >> have a
> > > > >> merged BIP that they co-authored,
> > although I believe
> > > > there are
> > > > >> far-along
> > > > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology)
> and
> > > Somsen (Silent
> > > > >> Payments). I
> > > > >> don't think this should be a requirement,
> > but I
> > > do think it
> > > > >> demonstrates
> > > > >> familiarity with the process.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of
> the
> > > candidates
> > > > above with
> > > > >> multiple recommendations from other
> community
> > > > participants are
> > > > >> fully
> > > > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only
> > provide a
> > > detailed
> > > > >> justification
> > > > >> for the person who would be my first
> > pick: Murch
> > > is not
> > > > only a
> > > > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin
> > > contributor, but
> > > > (as Corallo
> > > > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing
> > > terminology
> > > > through a
> > > > >> draft
> > > > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an
> > extremely detailed
> > > > review of
> > > > >> all 300
> > > > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd
> > > edition) and has
> > > > >> reviewed
> > > > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech
> > newsletters, in
> > > both cases
> > > > >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> > > > comprehensibility of the
> > > > >> documentation. To me, that seems very
> > similar to the
> > > > work we'd
> > > > >> ask him
> > > > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's
> > something that
> > > > he's already
> > > > >> doing,
> > > > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of
> > person to
> > > role.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> -Dave
> > > > >>
> > > > >> [1]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [2]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [3]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [4]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [5]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [6]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [7]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [8]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [9]
> > > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>
> > > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [10]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [11]
> > > > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>>>
> > > > >> [12]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [13]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> > >
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> >>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [14]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>>
> > > >
> > >
> > <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [15]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [16]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/
> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >> [17]
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> >
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> >>>>
> > > > >>
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> <
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> <
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> <
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> >>>>.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 21:08 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-20 21:11 ` Steve Lee
@ 2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson
2024-04-20 23:05 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
1 sibling, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-20 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: Steve Lee, bitcoindev
Ava
> Obviously a revert war would be a problem, but I don't think it would
come down to that, and in that case, participants in that should be
promptly removed.
It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
wants to revert the merge?
I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
and guidance on this.
> BIPs is also a fairly low risk repo as it's just documentation.
Lower risk than say the Bitcoin Core repo sure but just throwing a
large number of new editors at it makes it seem like you don't care
what happens there.
I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
give him commit access again? I'd be more comfortable with him
overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
(/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
Thanks
Michael
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> > Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> > responsibility without being paid?
>
> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> about being a BIPs editor.
>
> > I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
> > want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
>
> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> have also replied to this thread about this.
>
> Ava
>
> [1]:
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> [2]:
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
>
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> > <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >
> > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> > April 22nd.
> >
> > Ava
> >
> > On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> > wrote:
> > > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> > > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> > > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> > > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> > objections
> > > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> > > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> > endorsed
> > > by many others.
> > >
> > > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> > > counts are:
> > > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> > > * Murch - 13 for
> > > * Jonatack - 13 for
> > > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> > > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> > > * Michael Folkson - none
> > >
> > > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> > > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
> > process
> > > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> > > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> > > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> > > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> > > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
> > really
> > > wants to deal with.
> > >
> > > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
> > posted
> > > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> > reached out
> > > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> > > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> > > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> > > received a response from Roasbeef.
> > >
> > > Ava
> > >
> > > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> > >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> > task, so
> > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> > >> majority.
> > >>
> > >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
> > Having
> > >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> > which people
> > >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
> > end up
> > >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> > >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> > >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
> > from
> > >> their expectations.
> > >>
> > >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> > >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
> > we need
> > >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> > slacking off).
> > >>
> > >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> > >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> > their track
> > >> record in the space
> > >>
> > >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> > <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> > >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> +1 for
> > >> Kanzure
> > >> RubenSomsen
> > >> Seccour
> > >> Jon Atack
> > >> Roasbeef
> > >>
> > >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> > >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> > >> majority.
> > >>
> > >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> > >>
> > >> I'd like to return to that.
> > >>
> > >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> > >>
> > >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> > Harding wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> > >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> > saying "I
> > >> like Bob!".
> > >>
> > >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> > following appears
> > >> to be
> > >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> > Asterisks denote
> > >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> > the role.
> > >>
> > >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> > >> Stewart[3],
> > >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> > Brandon
> > >> Black[11],
> > >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> > Stewart[3],
> > >> Michael
> > >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> > Poinsot[15], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> > Stewart[3],
> > >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> > >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> > >> Carvalho[16]
> > >>
> > >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> > >> Stewart[3], John
> > >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
> > Antoine
> > >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> > >>
> > >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> > Folkson[6], Keagan
> > >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> > >> Riard[12],
> > >> Ava Chow[14]
> > >>
> > >> - Michael Folkson*
> > >>
> > >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> > >> "non-dev
> > >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> > editor", and
> > >> Antoine
> > >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> > >>
> > >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
> > the above
> > >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
> > listed
> > >> below as:
> > >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
> > closed).
> > >>
> > >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> > >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> > >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> > >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> > >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> > >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> > >>
> > >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
> > set to
> > >> have a
> > >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> > there are
> > >> far-along
> > >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> > >> Payments). I
> > >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> > >> demonstrates
> > >> familiarity with the process.
> > >>
> > >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
> > above with
> > >> multiple recommendations from other community
> > participants are
> > >> fully
> > >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> > >> justification
> > >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
> > only a
> > >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
> > (as Corallo
> > >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
> > through a
> > >> draft
> > >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> > review of
> > >> all 300
> > >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> > >> reviewed
> > >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> > >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> > comprehensibility of the
> > >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> > work we'd
> > >> ask him
> > >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> > he's already
> > >> doing,
> > >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> > >>
> > >> -Dave
> > >>
> > >> [1]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
> > >> [2]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
> > >> [3]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
> > >> [4]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
> > >> [5]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
> > >> [6]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
> > >> [7]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
> > >> [8]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
> > >> [9]
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> > >>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> > >> [10]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
> > >> [11]
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> > >>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> > >> [12]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
> > >> [13]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> > >> [14]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> > <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
> > >> [15]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> > >> [16]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
> > >> [17]
> > >>
> > https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> > Google
> > >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> > from it,
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 22:21 ` Michael Folkson
@ 2024-04-20 23:05 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-21 11:43 ` Michael Folkson
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-20 23:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Folkson; +Cc: bitcoindev
On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
> agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
> matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
> suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to agree
on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If there's
disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it like
adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -
they can do most work without communicating, but when there's questions
or ambiguity, then they communicate.
> Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
> whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
> they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
> out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
> wants to revert the merge?
A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it goes
back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs repo.
Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and would
be both sides.
> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> and guidance on this.
This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
to be a good idea.
> I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
> give him commit access again?
It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
BIPs repo discussion.
> I'd be more comfortable with him
> overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
> (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
> BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
I don't understand why you assume that.
I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on the
list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
that will actually come to pass.
Ava
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
>>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
>>> responsibility without being paid?
>>
>> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
>> about being a BIPs editor.
>>
>>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
>>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
>>
>> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
>> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
>> have also replied to this thread about this.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>> [1]:
>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
>> [2]:
>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
>>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
>>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>>>
>>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
>>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
>>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
>>> April 22nd.
>>>
>>> Ava
>>>
>>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>>> wrote:
>>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
>>> objections
>>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
>>> endorsed
>>> > by many others.
>>> >
>>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>>> > counts are:
>>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>>> > * Murch - 13 for
>>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
>>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
>>> > * Michael Folkson - none
>>> >
>>> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
>>> process
>>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
>>> really
>>> > wants to deal with.
>>> >
>>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
>>> posted
>>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
>>> reached out
>>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
>>> >
>>> > Ava
>>> >
>>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
>>> task, so
>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>> >> majority.
>>> >>
>>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
>>> Having
>>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
>>> which people
>>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
>>> end up
>>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
>>> from
>>> >> their expectations.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
>>> we need
>>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
>>> slacking off).
>>> >>
>>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
>>> their track
>>> >> record in the space
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
>>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> +1 for
>>> >> Kanzure
>>> >> RubenSomsen
>>> >> Seccour
>>> >> Jon Atack
>>> >> Roasbeef
>>> >>
>>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>> >> majority.
>>> >>
>>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'd like to return to that.
>>> >>
>>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>> >>
>>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
>>> Harding wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
>>> saying "I
>>> >> like Bob!".
>>> >>
>>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
>>> following appears
>>> >> to be
>>> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
>>> Asterisks denote
>>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
>>> the role.
>>> >>
>>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>> >> Stewart[3],
>>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
>>> Brandon
>>> >> Black[11],
>>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>> >>
>>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>> Stewart[3],
>>> >> Michael
>>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
>>> Poinsot[15], John
>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>> >>
>>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
>>> Stewart[3],
>>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>> >>
>>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>> >> Stewart[3], John
>>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
>>> Antoine
>>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>> >>
>>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
>>> Folkson[6], Keagan
>>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>> >> Riard[12],
>>> >> Ava Chow[14]
>>> >>
>>> >> - Michael Folkson*
>>> >>
>>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>> >> "non-dev
>>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
>>> editor", and
>>> >> Antoine
>>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>> >>
>>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
>>> the above
>>> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
>>> listed
>>> >> below as:
>>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
>>> closed).
>>> >>
>>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>> >>
>>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
>>> set to
>>> >> have a
>>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
>>> there are
>>> >> far-along
>>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>> >> Payments). I
>>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>> >> demonstrates
>>> >> familiarity with the process.
>>> >>
>>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
>>> above with
>>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
>>> participants are
>>> >> fully
>>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>> >> justification
>>> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
>>> only a
>>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
>>> (as Corallo
>>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
>>> through a
>>> >> draft
>>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
>>> review of
>>> >> all 300
>>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>> >> reviewed
>>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
>>> comprehensibility of the
>>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
>>> work we'd
>>> >> ask him
>>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
>>> he's already
>>> >> doing,
>>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Dave
>>> >>
>>> >> [1]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
>>> >> [2]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
>>> >> [3]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>> >> [4]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
>>> >> [5]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
>>> >> [6]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>> >> [7]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>> >> [8]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>> >> [9]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
>>> >>
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
>>> >> [10]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
>>> >> [11]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>> >>
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
>>> >> [12]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>> >> [13]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
>>> >> [14]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
>>> >> [15]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
>>> >> [16]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>> >> [17]
>>> >>
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
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>>> >>
>>> >>
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>
>
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 23:05 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-21 11:43 ` Michael Folkson
2024-04-21 16:39 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-21 11:43 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
Ava
Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the insight.
>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
>> and guidance on this.
> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> to be a good idea.
I would hope that a contentious soft fork and activation params for
that contentious soft fork would not be merged into the Bitcoin Core
codebase and up until now it hasn't been. I would hope all the Bitcoin
Core maintainers understand that even if they personally think a soft
fork is a good idea (apparently there is nothing to stop them merging
it without discussing it with the other maintainers) that they
shouldn't independently merge it if it is contentious.
Similarly I would hope that all BIP editors would be careful about
what information gets merged around soft fork activation *attempts*
whether that be activation details on a particular soft fork BIP or on
a separate activation BIP. With Taproot there were very strong
disagreements over activation parameters for a non-contentious soft
fork. It would be much messier for a contentious soft fork activation
attempt. I'm not sure all these new BIP editors understand that or
would perhaps even agree with that. For example Laolu is listed as a
supporter of a CTV activation attempt back in 2022 [0] which was
clearly contentious. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that as
soon as he is a BIP editor he won't start merging details on
contentious soft fork activation attempts in BIPs and merging that
soft fork in say btcd. He would need to be removed as a BIP editor if
he were to do something like that.
Thanks
Michael
[0]: https://utxos.org/signals/
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 12:05 AM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
>
>
> On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> > It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
> > agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
> > matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
> > suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
>
> Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
>
> The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
> independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to agree
> on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If there's
> disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it like
> adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
> there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
>
> I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
> controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
> then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -
> they can do most work without communicating, but when there's questions
> or ambiguity, then they communicate.
>
> > Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
> > whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
> > they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
> > out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
> > wants to revert the merge?
>
> A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
> someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it goes
> back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
> be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
> would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
> actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs repo.
> Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and would
> be both sides.
>
> > I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> > These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
> > pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> > and guidance on this.
>
> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> to be a good idea.
>
> > I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
> > give him commit access again?
>
> It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
> doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
> BIPs repo discussion.
>
> > I'd be more comfortable with him
> > overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
> > (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
> > BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
>
> I don't understand why you assume that.
>
> I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
> repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on the
> list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
> that will actually come to pass.
>
> Ava
>
> >
> > Thanks
> > Michael
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> > Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> >>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> >>> responsibility without being paid?
> >>
> >> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> >> about being a BIPs editor.
> >>
> >>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
> >>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
> >>
> >> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
> >> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> >> have also replied to this thread about this.
> >>
> >> Ava
> >>
> >> [1]:
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> >> [2]:
> >> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> >>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> >>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >>>
> >>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> >>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> >>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> >>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> >>> April 22nd.
> >>>
> >>> Ava
> >>>
> >>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> >>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> >>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> >>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> >>> objections
> >>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> >>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> >>> endorsed
> >>> > by many others.
> >>> >
> >>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> >>> > counts are:
> >>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> >>> > * Murch - 13 for
> >>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> >>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> >>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> >>> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >>> >
> >>> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> >>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
> >>> process
> >>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> >>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> >>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> >>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> >>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
> >>> really
> >>> > wants to deal with.
> >>> >
> >>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
> >>> posted
> >>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> >>> reached out
> >>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> >>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> >>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> >>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >>> >
> >>> > Ava
> >>> >
> >>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> >>> task, so
> >>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >>> >> majority.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
> >>> Having
> >>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> >>> which people
> >>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
> >>> end up
> >>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> >>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> >>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
> >>> from
> >>> >> their expectations.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> >>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
> >>> we need
> >>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> >>> slacking off).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> >>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> >>> their track
> >>> >> record in the space
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> >>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> >>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> +1 for
> >>> >> Kanzure
> >>> >> RubenSomsen
> >>> >> Seccour
> >>> >> Jon Atack
> >>> >> Roasbeef
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >>> >> majority.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> >>> Harding wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >>> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> >>> saying "I
> >>> >> like Bob!".
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> >>> following appears
> >>> >> to be
> >>> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> >>> Asterisks denote
> >>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> >>> the role.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >>> >> Stewart[3],
> >>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> >>> Brandon
> >>> >> Black[11],
> >>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >>> Stewart[3],
> >>> >> Michael
> >>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> >>> Poinsot[15], John
> >>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> >>> Stewart[3],
> >>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> >>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> >>> >> Stewart[3], John
> >>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
> >>> Antoine
> >>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> >>> Folkson[6], Keagan
> >>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> >>> >> Riard[12],
> >>> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> >>> >> "non-dev
> >>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> >>> editor", and
> >>> >> Antoine
> >>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
> >>> the above
> >>> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
> >>> listed
> >>> >> below as:
> >>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
> >>> closed).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
> >>> set to
> >>> >> have a
> >>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> >>> there are
> >>> >> far-along
> >>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> >>> >> Payments). I
> >>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> >>> >> demonstrates
> >>> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
> >>> above with
> >>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
> >>> participants are
> >>> >> fully
> >>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> >>> >> justification
> >>> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
> >>> only a
> >>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
> >>> (as Corallo
> >>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
> >>> through a
> >>> >> draft
> >>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> >>> review of
> >>> >> all 300
> >>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> >>> >> reviewed
> >>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> >>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> >>> comprehensibility of the
> >>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> >>> work we'd
> >>> >> ask him
> >>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> >>> he's already
> >>> >> doing,
> >>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> -Dave
> >>> >>
> >>> >> [1]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
> >>> >> [2]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
> >>> >> [3]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>> >> [4]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
> >>> >> [5]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>> >> [6]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>> >> [7]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>> >> [8]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>> >> [9]
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> >>> >>
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> >>> >> [10]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
> >>> >> [11]
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> >>> >>
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> >>> >> [12]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>> >> [13]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> >>> >> [14]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> >>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
> >>> >> [15]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> >>> >> [16]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>> >> [17]
> >>> >>
> >>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
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> >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Sergi.
> >>> >>
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> >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
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> >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >>> >
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> >>>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Folkson
> > Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
>
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-21 11:43 ` Michael Folkson
@ 2024-04-21 16:39 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-21 17:57 ` Michael Folkson
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-21 16:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Folkson; +Cc: bitcoindev
You are misunderstanding the role of BIP editors. They are not arbiters
of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change to their BIP and those
changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
responsibilities to refuse to merge that change. As with Bitcoin Core
maintainers, BIP editing is a largely janitorial role.
Just because something is a BIP does not mean it is a good idea. Just
because a BIP specifying a fork contains deployment parameters does not
mean it will actually be deployed. There are several BIPs for both hard
and soft forks that are rejected or withdrawn that have deployment
parameters.
Furthermore, for myself, I would actually prefer that contentious soft
forks for which some people are legitimately attempting to activate have
their deployment parameters be specified in a/the BIP. Having competing
activation parameters in different BIPs is preferable over the
documentation being spread around in many different places. It makes it
much easier for implementations to inform users what they've actually
implemented so that users can make a more informed decision.
On 04/21/2024 07:43 AM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> Ava
>
> Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the insight.
>
>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
>>> and guidance on this.
>
>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
>> to be a good idea.
>
> I would hope that a contentious soft fork and activation params for
> that contentious soft fork would not be merged into the Bitcoin Core
> codebase and up until now it hasn't been. I would hope all the Bitcoin
> Core maintainers understand that even if they personally think a soft
> fork is a good idea (apparently there is nothing to stop them merging
> it without discussing it with the other maintainers) that they
> shouldn't independently merge it if it is contentious.
>
> Similarly I would hope that all BIP editors would be careful about
> what information gets merged around soft fork activation *attempts*
> whether that be activation details on a particular soft fork BIP or on
> a separate activation BIP. With Taproot there were very strong
> disagreements over activation parameters for a non-contentious soft
> fork. It would be much messier for a contentious soft fork activation
> attempt. I'm not sure all these new BIP editors understand that or
> would perhaps even agree with that. For example Laolu is listed as a
> supporter of a CTV activation attempt back in 2022 [0] which was
> clearly contentious. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that as
> soon as he is a BIP editor he won't start merging details on
> contentious soft fork activation attempts in BIPs and merging that
> soft fork in say btcd. He would need to be removed as a BIP editor if
> he were to do something like that.
>
> Thanks
> Michael
>
> [0]: https://utxos.org/signals/
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 12:05 AM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
>>> It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
>>> agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
>>> matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
>>> suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
>>
>> Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
>>
>> The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
>> independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to agree
>> on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If there's
>> disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it like
>> adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
>> there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
>>
>> I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
>> controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
>> then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -
>> they can do most work without communicating, but when there's questions
>> or ambiguity, then they communicate.
>>
>>> Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
>>> whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
>>> they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
>>> out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
>>> wants to revert the merge?
>>
>> A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
>> someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it goes
>> back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
>> be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
>> would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
>> actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs repo.
>> Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and would
>> be both sides.
>>
>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
>>> and guidance on this.
>>
>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
>> to be a good idea.
>>
>>> I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
>>> give him commit access again?
>>
>> It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
>> doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
>> BIPs repo discussion.
>>
>>> I'd be more comfortable with him
>>> overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
>>> (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
>>> BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
>>
>> I don't understand why you assume that.
>>
>> I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
>> repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on the
>> list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
>> that will actually come to pass.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
>>>>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
>>>>> responsibility without being paid?
>>>>
>>>> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
>>>> about being a BIPs editor.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
>>>>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
>>>> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
>>>> have also replied to this thread about this.
>>>>
>>>> Ava
>>>>
>>>> [1]:
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
>>>> [2]:
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
>>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
>>>>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>>>>>
>>>>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>>>>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
>>>>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
>>>>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
>>>>> April 22nd.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ava
>>>>>
>>>>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>>>>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>>>>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>>>>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
>>>>> objections
>>>>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>>>>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
>>>>> endorsed
>>>>> > by many others.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>>>>> > counts are:
>>>>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>>>>> > * Murch - 13 for
>>>>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
>>>>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>>>>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
>>>>> > * Michael Folkson - none
>>>>> >
>>>>> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>>>>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
>>>>> process
>>>>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>>>>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>>>>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>>>>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>>>>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
>>>>> really
>>>>> > wants to deal with.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
>>>>> posted
>>>>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
>>>>> reached out
>>>>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>>>>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>>>>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>>>>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Ava
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
>>>>> task, so
>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>>> >> majority.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
>>>>> Having
>>>>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
>>>>> which people
>>>>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
>>>>> end up
>>>>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>>>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>>>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
>>>>> from
>>>>> >> their expectations.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>>>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
>>>>> we need
>>>>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
>>>>> slacking off).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>>>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
>>>>> their track
>>>>> >> record in the space
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
>>>>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> +1 for
>>>>> >> Kanzure
>>>>> >> RubenSomsen
>>>>> >> Seccour
>>>>> >> Jon Atack
>>>>> >> Roasbeef
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>>> >> majority.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I'd like to return to that.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
>>>>> Harding wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>>> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
>>>>> saying "I
>>>>> >> like Bob!".
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
>>>>> following appears
>>>>> >> to be
>>>>> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
>>>>> Asterisks denote
>>>>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
>>>>> the role.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>>> >> Stewart[3],
>>>>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
>>>>> Brandon
>>>>> >> Black[11],
>>>>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>>> Stewart[3],
>>>>> >> Michael
>>>>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
>>>>> Poinsot[15], John
>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
>>>>> Stewart[3],
>>>>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>>>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>>>> >> Stewart[3], John
>>>>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
>>>>> Antoine
>>>>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
>>>>> Folkson[6], Keagan
>>>>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>>>> >> Riard[12],
>>>>> >> Ava Chow[14]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - Michael Folkson*
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>>>> >> "non-dev
>>>>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
>>>>> editor", and
>>>>> >> Antoine
>>>>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
>>>>> the above
>>>>> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
>>>>> listed
>>>>> >> below as:
>>>>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
>>>>> closed).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>>>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>>>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>>>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>>>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>>>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
>>>>> set to
>>>>> >> have a
>>>>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
>>>>> there are
>>>>> >> far-along
>>>>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>>>> >> Payments). I
>>>>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>>>> >> demonstrates
>>>>> >> familiarity with the process.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
>>>>> above with
>>>>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
>>>>> participants are
>>>>> >> fully
>>>>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>>>> >> justification
>>>>> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
>>>>> only a
>>>>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
>>>>> (as Corallo
>>>>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
>>>>> through a
>>>>> >> draft
>>>>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
>>>>> review of
>>>>> >> all 300
>>>>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>>>> >> reviewed
>>>>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>>>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
>>>>> comprehensibility of the
>>>>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
>>>>> work we'd
>>>>> >> ask him
>>>>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
>>>>> he's already
>>>>> >> doing,
>>>>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> -Dave
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> [1]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
>>>>> >> [2]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
>>>>> >> [3]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>> >> [4]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
>>>>> >> [5]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>> >> [6]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>> >> [7]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>> >> [8]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>>>> >> [9]
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
>>>>> >> [10]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
>>>>> >> [11]
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
>>>>> >> [12]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>>>> >> [13]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
>>>>> >> [14]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
>>>>> >> [15]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
>>>>> >> [16]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>> >> [17]
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>> Google
>>>>> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>> from it,
>>>>> >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
>>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> Sergi.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --
>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
>>>>> it, send
>>>>> >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
>>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> >>
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > --
>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
>>>>> Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com>.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com>.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/0d4d85e3-9fbb-4bd4-af0f-92225e699b63%40achow101.com.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Folkson
>>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
--
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-21 16:39 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-21 17:57 ` Michael Folkson
2024-04-21 18:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
0 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-21 17:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
> You are misunderstanding the role of BIP editors. They are not arbiters
of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change to their BIP and those
changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
responsibilities to refuse to merge that change. As with Bitcoin Core
maintainers, BIP editing is a largely janitorial role.
So once a BIP number is allocated (or before) the BIP author can write
whatever they like on that BIP? Including false and misleading
statements? And the BIP editors have to merge it as long as it meets
formatting requirements?
A misleading statement like "This soft fork will definitely activate
at block X as it has been merged into implementation Y. It hasn't been
merged into Bitcoin Core yet but Bitcoin Core will merge the soft fork
after the activation"
This is a step change from before. If we aren't relying on *any*
judgment then there might as well be 100 BIP editors. Because the
editors aren't doing anything, each BIP author (or champion) has total
license to write whatever they like on their BIP.
> They are not arbiters of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
Of course not. The BIP editors do not decide what is activated on
Bitcoin. But they are gatekeepers on ensuring BIPs are high quality
and don't include false and misleading statements. Because false and
misleading statements can impact the evolution of an activation
process.
I tried. Based on your perspective all we need is one malicious BIP
author (or champion) and they'll make the entire BIP process a joke
and the BIP editors won't be able to do anything.
Michael
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 5:39 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
>
> You are misunderstanding the role of BIP editors. They are not arbiters
> of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
> If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change to their BIP and those
> changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
> responsibilities to refuse to merge that change. As with Bitcoin Core
> maintainers, BIP editing is a largely janitorial role.
>
> Just because something is a BIP does not mean it is a good idea. Just
> because a BIP specifying a fork contains deployment parameters does not
> mean it will actually be deployed. There are several BIPs for both hard
> and soft forks that are rejected or withdrawn that have deployment
> parameters.
>
> Furthermore, for myself, I would actually prefer that contentious soft
> forks for which some people are legitimately attempting to activate have
> their deployment parameters be specified in a/the BIP. Having competing
> activation parameters in different BIPs is preferable over the
> documentation being spread around in many different places. It makes it
> much easier for implementations to inform users what they've actually
> implemented so that users can make a more informed decision.
>
> On 04/21/2024 07:43 AM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> > Ava
> >
> > Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the insight.
> >
> >>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> >>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
> >>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> >>> and guidance on this.
> >
> >> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
> >> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> >> to be a good idea.
> >
> > I would hope that a contentious soft fork and activation params for
> > that contentious soft fork would not be merged into the Bitcoin Core
> > codebase and up until now it hasn't been. I would hope all the Bitcoin
> > Core maintainers understand that even if they personally think a soft
> > fork is a good idea (apparently there is nothing to stop them merging
> > it without discussing it with the other maintainers) that they
> > shouldn't independently merge it if it is contentious.
> >
> > Similarly I would hope that all BIP editors would be careful about
> > what information gets merged around soft fork activation *attempts*
> > whether that be activation details on a particular soft fork BIP or on
> > a separate activation BIP. With Taproot there were very strong
> > disagreements over activation parameters for a non-contentious soft
> > fork. It would be much messier for a contentious soft fork activation
> > attempt. I'm not sure all these new BIP editors understand that or
> > would perhaps even agree with that. For example Laolu is listed as a
> > supporter of a CTV activation attempt back in 2022 [0] which was
> > clearly contentious. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that as
> > soon as he is a BIP editor he won't start merging details on
> > contentious soft fork activation attempts in BIPs and merging that
> > soft fork in say btcd. He would need to be removed as a BIP editor if
> > he were to do something like that.
> >
> > Thanks
> > Michael
> >
> > [0]: https://utxos.org/signals/
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 12:05 AM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> >>> It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
> >>> agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
> >>> matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
> >>> suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
> >>
> >> Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
> >>
> >> The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
> >> independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to agree
> >> on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If there's
> >> disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it like
> >> adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
> >> there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
> >>
> >> I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
> >> controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
> >> then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -
> >> they can do most work without communicating, but when there's questions
> >> or ambiguity, then they communicate.
> >>
> >>> Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
> >>> whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
> >>> they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
> >>> out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
> >>> wants to revert the merge?
> >>
> >> A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
> >> someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it goes
> >> back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
> >> be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
> >> would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
> >> actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs repo.
> >> Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and would
> >> be both sides.
> >>
> >>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> >>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
> >>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> >>> and guidance on this.
> >>
> >> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
> >> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> >> to be a good idea.
> >>
> >>> I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
> >>> give him commit access again?
> >>
> >> It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
> >> doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
> >> BIPs repo discussion.
> >>
> >>> I'd be more comfortable with him
> >>> overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
> >>> (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
> >>> BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
> >>
> >> I don't understand why you assume that.
> >>
> >> I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
> >> repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on the
> >> list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
> >> that will actually come to pass.
> >>
> >> Ava
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> >>>>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> >>>>> responsibility without being paid?
> >>>>
> >>>> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> >>>> about being a BIPs editor.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
> >>>>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
> >>>>
> >>>> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
> >>>> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> >>>> have also replied to this thread about this.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ava
> >>>>
> >>>> [1]:
> >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> >>>> [2]:
> >>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> >>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> >>>>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> >>>>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> >>>>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> >>>>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> >>>>> April 22nd.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ava
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> >>>>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> >>>>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> >>>>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> >>>>> objections
> >>>>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> >>>>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> >>>>> endorsed
> >>>>> > by many others.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> >>>>> > counts are:
> >>>>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> >>>>> > * Murch - 13 for
> >>>>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> >>>>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> >>>>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> >>>>> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> >>>>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
> >>>>> process
> >>>>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> >>>>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> >>>>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> >>>>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> >>>>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
> >>>>> really
> >>>>> > wants to deal with.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
> >>>>> posted
> >>>>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> >>>>> reached out
> >>>>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> >>>>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> >>>>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> >>>>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Ava
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >>>>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> >>>>> task, so
> >>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >>>>> >> majority.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
> >>>>> Having
> >>>>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> >>>>> which people
> >>>>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
> >>>>> end up
> >>>>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> >>>>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> >>>>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
> >>>>> from
> >>>>> >> their expectations.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> >>>>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
> >>>>> we need
> >>>>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> >>>>> slacking off).
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> >>>>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> >>>>> their track
> >>>>> >> record in the space
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> >>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> >>>>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> +1 for
> >>>>> >> Kanzure
> >>>>> >> RubenSomsen
> >>>>> >> Seccour
> >>>>> >> Jon Atack
> >>>>> >> Roasbeef
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >>>>> >> majority.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> >>>>> Harding wrote:
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >>>>> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> >>>>> saying "I
> >>>>> >> like Bob!".
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> >>>>> following appears
> >>>>> >> to be
> >>>>> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> >>>>> Asterisks denote
> >>>>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> >>>>> the role.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >>>>> >> Stewart[3],
> >>>>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> >>>>> Brandon
> >>>>> >> Black[11],
> >>>>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >>>>> Stewart[3],
> >>>>> >> Michael
> >>>>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> >>>>> Poinsot[15], John
> >>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> >>>>> Stewart[3],
> >>>>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >>>>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> >>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> >>>>> >> Stewart[3], John
> >>>>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
> >>>>> Antoine
> >>>>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> >>>>> Folkson[6], Keagan
> >>>>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> >>>>> >> Riard[12],
> >>>>> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> >>>>> >> "non-dev
> >>>>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> >>>>> editor", and
> >>>>> >> Antoine
> >>>>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
> >>>>> the above
> >>>>> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
> >>>>> listed
> >>>>> >> below as:
> >>>>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
> >>>>> closed).
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >>>>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >>>>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >>>>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >>>>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >>>>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
> >>>>> set to
> >>>>> >> have a
> >>>>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> >>>>> there are
> >>>>> >> far-along
> >>>>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> >>>>> >> Payments). I
> >>>>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> >>>>> >> demonstrates
> >>>>> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
> >>>>> above with
> >>>>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
> >>>>> participants are
> >>>>> >> fully
> >>>>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> >>>>> >> justification
> >>>>> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
> >>>>> only a
> >>>>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
> >>>>> (as Corallo
> >>>>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
> >>>>> through a
> >>>>> >> draft
> >>>>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> >>>>> review of
> >>>>> >> all 300
> >>>>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> >>>>> >> reviewed
> >>>>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> >>>>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> >>>>> comprehensibility of the
> >>>>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> >>>>> work we'd
> >>>>> >> ask him
> >>>>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> >>>>> he's already
> >>>>> >> doing,
> >>>>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> -Dave
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> [1]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [2]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
> >>>>> >> [3]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [4]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [5]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [6]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [7]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [8]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [9]
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> >>>>> >> [10]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [11]
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> >>>>> >> [12]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [13]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> >>>>> >> [14]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> >>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [15]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [16]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>> >> [17]
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> --
> >>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> >>>>> Google
> >>>>> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> >>>>> from it,
> >>>>> >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> >>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> >>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> --
> >>>>> >> Sergi.
> >>>>> >>
> >>>>> >> --
> >>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>>> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> >>>>> it, send
> >>>>> >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> >>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> >>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>> >>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-21 17:57 ` Michael Folkson
@ 2024-04-21 18:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-21 19:18 ` Michael Folkson
2024-04-21 20:48 ` Antoine Riard
0 siblings, 2 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-21 18:47 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Michael Folkson; +Cc: bitcoindev
On 04/21/2024 01:57 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> So once a BIP number is allocated (or before) the BIP author can write
> whatever they like on that BIP? Including false and misleading
> statements? And the BIP editors have to merge it as long as it meets
> formatting requirements?
I did not say that they can write anything, do not put words in my
mouth. Modifications to a BIP are held to the same standard as when it
is initially proposed. This standard is largely about formatting, but
also about keeping BIPs as actual technical specifications. So long as
the BIP after those modifications meet those requirements, then BIP
editors should merge them.
> A misleading statement like "This soft fork will definitely activate
> at block X as it has been merged into implementation Y. It hasn't been
> merged into Bitcoin Core yet but Bitcoin Core will merge the soft fork
> after the activation"
BIPs are specifications. They are not blog posts. They are not the place
for opining about whether or not something will activate. Such
statements would be off topic for a BIP and do not meet the standard for
merging, so no, I do not think that should be merged, and I do not think
any of the proposed BIP editors would merge such a PR.
>
> This is a step change from before. If we aren't relying on *any*
> judgment then there might as well be 100 BIP editors. Because the
> editors aren't doing anything, each BIP author (or champion) has total
> license to write whatever they like on their BIP.
>
>> They are not arbiters of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
>
> Of course not. The BIP editors do not decide what is activated on
> Bitcoin. But they are gatekeepers on ensuring BIPs are high quality
> and don't include false and misleading statements. Because false and
> misleading statements can impact the evolution of an activation
> process.
>
> I tried. Based on your perspective all we need is one malicious BIP
> author (or champion) and they'll make the entire BIP process a joke
> and the BIP editors won't be able to do anything.
You are being deliberately obtuse and strawmanning. I did not say that
the BIP editors won't be able to do anything; I did not say that that a
BIP author can put whatever they want once they get a BIP number.
I suggest that you read the BIP process thread split from this one for
opinions on how to refine the BIPs process to make it clearer as to what
BIP editors should be merging.
Frankly, I don't understand what it is your are arguing for or trying to
achieve. You make absurd claims, use strawman arguments, and throw out
whataboutisms. This all seems to me to be concern trolling, and as such,
I see no reason to continue responding to you.
Ava
>
> Michael
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 5:39 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
>>
>> You are misunderstanding the role of BIP editors. They are not arbiters
>> of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
>> If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change to their BIP and those
>> changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
>> responsibilities to refuse to merge that change. As with Bitcoin Core
>> maintainers, BIP editing is a largely janitorial role.
>>
>> Just because something is a BIP does not mean it is a good idea. Just
>> because a BIP specifying a fork contains deployment parameters does not
>> mean it will actually be deployed. There are several BIPs for both hard
>> and soft forks that are rejected or withdrawn that have deployment
>> parameters.
>>
>> Furthermore, for myself, I would actually prefer that contentious soft
>> forks for which some people are legitimately attempting to activate have
>> their deployment parameters be specified in a/the BIP. Having competing
>> activation parameters in different BIPs is preferable over the
>> documentation being spread around in many different places. It makes it
>> much easier for implementations to inform users what they've actually
>> implemented so that users can make a more informed decision.
>>
>> On 04/21/2024 07:43 AM, Michael Folkson wrote:
>>> Ava
>>>
>>> Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the insight.
>>>
>>>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
>>>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
>>>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
>>>>> and guidance on this.
>>>
>>>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
>>>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
>>>> to be a good idea.
>>>
>>> I would hope that a contentious soft fork and activation params for
>>> that contentious soft fork would not be merged into the Bitcoin Core
>>> codebase and up until now it hasn't been. I would hope all the Bitcoin
>>> Core maintainers understand that even if they personally think a soft
>>> fork is a good idea (apparently there is nothing to stop them merging
>>> it without discussing it with the other maintainers) that they
>>> shouldn't independently merge it if it is contentious.
>>>
>>> Similarly I would hope that all BIP editors would be careful about
>>> what information gets merged around soft fork activation *attempts*
>>> whether that be activation details on a particular soft fork BIP or on
>>> a separate activation BIP. With Taproot there were very strong
>>> disagreements over activation parameters for a non-contentious soft
>>> fork. It would be much messier for a contentious soft fork activation
>>> attempt. I'm not sure all these new BIP editors understand that or
>>> would perhaps even agree with that. For example Laolu is listed as a
>>> supporter of a CTV activation attempt back in 2022 [0] which was
>>> clearly contentious. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that as
>>> soon as he is a BIP editor he won't start merging details on
>>> contentious soft fork activation attempts in BIPs and merging that
>>> soft fork in say btcd. He would need to be removed as a BIP editor if
>>> he were to do something like that.
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Michael
>>>
>>> [0]: https://utxos.org/signals/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 12:05 AM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
>>>>> It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
>>>>> agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
>>>>> matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
>>>>> suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
>>>>
>>>> The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
>>>> independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to agree
>>>> on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If there's
>>>> disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it like
>>>> adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
>>>> there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
>>>>
>>>> I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
>>>> controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
>>>> then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -
>>>> they can do most work without communicating, but when there's questions
>>>> or ambiguity, then they communicate.
>>>>
>>>>> Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
>>>>> whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
>>>>> they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
>>>>> out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
>>>>> wants to revert the merge?
>>>>
>>>> A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
>>>> someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it goes
>>>> back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
>>>> be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
>>>> would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
>>>> actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs repo.
>>>> Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and would
>>>> be both sides.
>>>>
>>>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
>>>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
>>>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
>>>>> and guidance on this.
>>>>
>>>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
>>>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
>>>> to be a good idea.
>>>>
>>>>> I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
>>>>> give him commit access again?
>>>>
>>>> It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
>>>> doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
>>>> BIPs repo discussion.
>>>>
>>>>> I'd be more comfortable with him
>>>>> overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
>>>>> (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
>>>>> BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand why you assume that.
>>>>
>>>> I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
>>>> repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on the
>>>> list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
>>>> that will actually come to pass.
>>>>
>>>> Ava
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Michael
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
>>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
>>>>>>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
>>>>>>> responsibility without being paid?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
>>>>>> about being a BIPs editor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
>>>>>>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
>>>>>> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
>>>>>> have also replied to this thread about this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ava
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1]:
>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
>>>>>> [2]:
>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
>>>>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
>>>>>>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>>>>>>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
>>>>>>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
>>>>>>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
>>>>>>> April 22nd.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ava
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>>>>>>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>>>>>>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>>>>>>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
>>>>>>> objections
>>>>>>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>>>>>>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
>>>>>>> endorsed
>>>>>>> > by many others.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>>>>>>> > counts are:
>>>>>>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>>>>>>> > * Murch - 13 for
>>>>>>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
>>>>>>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>>>>>>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
>>>>>>> > * Michael Folkson - none
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>>>>>>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
>>>>>>> process
>>>>>>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>>>>>>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>>>>>>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>>>>>>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>>>>>>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
>>>>>>> really
>>>>>>> > wants to deal with.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
>>>>>>> posted
>>>>>>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
>>>>>>> reached out
>>>>>>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>>>>>>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>>>>>>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>>>>>>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Ava
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
>>>>>>> task, so
>>>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>>>>> >> majority.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
>>>>>>> Having
>>>>>>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
>>>>>>> which people
>>>>>>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
>>>>>>> end up
>>>>>>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>>>>>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>>>>>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>> >> their expectations.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>>>>>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
>>>>>>> we need
>>>>>>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
>>>>>>> slacking off).
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>>>>>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
>>>>>>> their track
>>>>>>> >> record in the space
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>>>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
>>>>>>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> +1 for
>>>>>>> >> Kanzure
>>>>>>> >> RubenSomsen
>>>>>>> >> Seccour
>>>>>>> >> Jon Atack
>>>>>>> >> Roasbeef
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>>>>> >> majority.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I'd like to return to that.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
>>>>>>> Harding wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>>>>> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
>>>>>>> saying "I
>>>>>>> >> like Bob!".
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
>>>>>>> following appears
>>>>>>> >> to be
>>>>>>> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
>>>>>>> Asterisks denote
>>>>>>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
>>>>>>> the role.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>>>>> >> Stewart[3],
>>>>>>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
>>>>>>> Brandon
>>>>>>> >> Black[11],
>>>>>>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>>>>> Stewart[3],
>>>>>>> >> Michael
>>>>>>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
>>>>>>> Poinsot[15], John
>>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
>>>>>>> Stewart[3],
>>>>>>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>>>>>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>>>>>> >> Stewart[3], John
>>>>>>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
>>>>>>> Antoine
>>>>>>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
>>>>>>> Folkson[6], Keagan
>>>>>>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>>>>>> >> Riard[12],
>>>>>>> >> Ava Chow[14]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - Michael Folkson*
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>>>>>> >> "non-dev
>>>>>>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
>>>>>>> editor", and
>>>>>>> >> Antoine
>>>>>>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
>>>>>>> the above
>>>>>>> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
>>>>>>> listed
>>>>>>> >> below as:
>>>>>>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
>>>>>>> closed).
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>>>>>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>>>>>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>>>>>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>>>>>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>>>>>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
>>>>>>> set to
>>>>>>> >> have a
>>>>>>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
>>>>>>> there are
>>>>>>> >> far-along
>>>>>>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>>>>>> >> Payments). I
>>>>>>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>>>>>> >> demonstrates
>>>>>>> >> familiarity with the process.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
>>>>>>> above with
>>>>>>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
>>>>>>> participants are
>>>>>>> >> fully
>>>>>>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>>>>>> >> justification
>>>>>>> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
>>>>>>> only a
>>>>>>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
>>>>>>> (as Corallo
>>>>>>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
>>>>>>> through a
>>>>>>> >> draft
>>>>>>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
>>>>>>> review of
>>>>>>> >> all 300
>>>>>>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>>>>>> >> reviewed
>>>>>>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>>>>>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
>>>>>>> comprehensibility of the
>>>>>>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
>>>>>>> work we'd
>>>>>>> >> ask him
>>>>>>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
>>>>>>> he's already
>>>>>>> >> doing,
>>>>>>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> -Dave
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> [1]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [2]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
>>>>>>> >> [3]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [4]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [5]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [6]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [7]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [8]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [9]
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
>>>>>>> >> [10]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [11]
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
>>>>>>> >> [12]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [13]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
>>>>>>> >> [14]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
>>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [15]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [16]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
>>>>>>> >> [17]
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
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>>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
>>>>>>> from it,
>>>>>>> >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
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>>>>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
>>>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> Sergi.
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
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>>>>>>> it, send
>>>>>>> >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
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>>>>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
>>>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > --
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>>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>>>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com>.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Michael Folkson
>>>>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Folkson
>>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
>>
>
>
> --
> Michael Folkson
> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-21 18:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
@ 2024-04-21 19:18 ` Michael Folkson
2024-04-21 20:48 ` Antoine Riard
1 sibling, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: Michael Folkson @ 2024-04-21 19:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
> I did not say that they can write anything, do not put words in my
mouth.
Your statement was "If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change
to their BIP and those
changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
responsibilities to refuse to merge that change." I'm not putting
words into your mouth, those are your words.
> I suggest that you read the BIP process thread split from this one for
opinions on how to refine the BIPs process to make it clearer as to what
BIP editors should be merging.
Indeed. I would rather that BIP process refinement had been completed
before we went from 1 BIP editor to 6 BIP editors, most of which have
barely participated in the BIP process in the past and will have very
different perspectives on what should or should not be merged. But
that is apparently "concern trolling" so agreed there is no point
continuing this.
On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 7:47 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
>
> On 04/21/2024 01:57 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> > So once a BIP number is allocated (or before) the BIP author can write
> > whatever they like on that BIP? Including false and misleading
> > statements? And the BIP editors have to merge it as long as it meets
> > formatting requirements?
>
> I did not say that they can write anything, do not put words in my
> mouth. Modifications to a BIP are held to the same standard as when it
> is initially proposed. This standard is largely about formatting, but
> also about keeping BIPs as actual technical specifications. So long as
> the BIP after those modifications meet those requirements, then BIP
> editors should merge them.
>
> > A misleading statement like "This soft fork will definitely activate
> > at block X as it has been merged into implementation Y. It hasn't been
> > merged into Bitcoin Core yet but Bitcoin Core will merge the soft fork
> > after the activation"
>
> BIPs are specifications. They are not blog posts. They are not the place
> for opining about whether or not something will activate. Such
> statements would be off topic for a BIP and do not meet the standard for
> merging, so no, I do not think that should be merged, and I do not think
> any of the proposed BIP editors would merge such a PR.
>
> >
> > This is a step change from before. If we aren't relying on *any*
> > judgment then there might as well be 100 BIP editors. Because the
> > editors aren't doing anything, each BIP author (or champion) has total
> > license to write whatever they like on their BIP.
> >
> >> They are not arbiters of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
> >
> > Of course not. The BIP editors do not decide what is activated on
> > Bitcoin. But they are gatekeepers on ensuring BIPs are high quality
> > and don't include false and misleading statements. Because false and
> > misleading statements can impact the evolution of an activation
> > process.
> >
> > I tried. Based on your perspective all we need is one malicious BIP
> > author (or champion) and they'll make the entire BIP process a joke
> > and the BIP editors won't be able to do anything.
>
> You are being deliberately obtuse and strawmanning. I did not say that
> the BIP editors won't be able to do anything; I did not say that that a
> BIP author can put whatever they want once they get a BIP number.
>
> I suggest that you read the BIP process thread split from this one for
> opinions on how to refine the BIPs process to make it clearer as to what
> BIP editors should be merging.
>
> Frankly, I don't understand what it is your are arguing for or trying to
> achieve. You make absurd claims, use strawman arguments, and throw out
> whataboutisms. This all seems to me to be concern trolling, and as such,
> I see no reason to continue responding to you.
>
> Ava
>
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 5:39 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You are misunderstanding the role of BIP editors. They are not arbiters
> >> of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
> >> If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change to their BIP and those
> >> changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
> >> responsibilities to refuse to merge that change. As with Bitcoin Core
> >> maintainers, BIP editing is a largely janitorial role.
> >>
> >> Just because something is a BIP does not mean it is a good idea. Just
> >> because a BIP specifying a fork contains deployment parameters does not
> >> mean it will actually be deployed. There are several BIPs for both hard
> >> and soft forks that are rejected or withdrawn that have deployment
> >> parameters.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, for myself, I would actually prefer that contentious soft
> >> forks for which some people are legitimately attempting to activate have
> >> their deployment parameters be specified in a/the BIP. Having competing
> >> activation parameters in different BIPs is preferable over the
> >> documentation being spread around in many different places. It makes it
> >> much easier for implementations to inform users what they've actually
> >> implemented so that users can make a more informed decision.
> >>
> >> On 04/21/2024 07:43 AM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> >>> Ava
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the insight.
> >>>
> >>>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> >>>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
> >>>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> >>>>> and guidance on this.
> >>>
> >>>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
> >>>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> >>>> to be a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> I would hope that a contentious soft fork and activation params for
> >>> that contentious soft fork would not be merged into the Bitcoin Core
> >>> codebase and up until now it hasn't been. I would hope all the Bitcoin
> >>> Core maintainers understand that even if they personally think a soft
> >>> fork is a good idea (apparently there is nothing to stop them merging
> >>> it without discussing it with the other maintainers) that they
> >>> shouldn't independently merge it if it is contentious.
> >>>
> >>> Similarly I would hope that all BIP editors would be careful about
> >>> what information gets merged around soft fork activation *attempts*
> >>> whether that be activation details on a particular soft fork BIP or on
> >>> a separate activation BIP. With Taproot there were very strong
> >>> disagreements over activation parameters for a non-contentious soft
> >>> fork. It would be much messier for a contentious soft fork activation
> >>> attempt. I'm not sure all these new BIP editors understand that or
> >>> would perhaps even agree with that. For example Laolu is listed as a
> >>> supporter of a CTV activation attempt back in 2022 [0] which was
> >>> clearly contentious. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that as
> >>> soon as he is a BIP editor he won't start merging details on
> >>> contentious soft fork activation attempts in BIPs and merging that
> >>> soft fork in say btcd. He would need to be removed as a BIP editor if
> >>> he were to do something like that.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>> [0]: https://utxos.org/signals/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 12:05 AM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> >>>>> It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
> >>>>> agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just a
> >>>>> matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
> >>>>> suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
> >>>>
> >>>> The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
> >>>> independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to agree
> >>>> on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If there's
> >>>> disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it like
> >>>> adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
> >>>> there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
> >>>> controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
> >>>> then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or nothing -
> >>>> they can do most work without communicating, but when there's questions
> >>>> or ambiguity, then they communicate.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
> >>>>> whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
> >>>>> they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they find
> >>>>> out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
> >>>>> wants to revert the merge?
> >>>>
> >>>> A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
> >>>> someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it goes
> >>>> back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
> >>>> be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
> >>>> would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
> >>>> actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs repo.
> >>>> Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and would
> >>>> be both sides.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> >>>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core merged
> >>>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> >>>>> and guidance on this.
> >>>>
> >>>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft and
> >>>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> >>>> to be a good idea.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
> >>>>> give him commit access again?
> >>>>
> >>>> It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
> >>>> doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
> >>>> BIPs repo discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'd be more comfortable with him
> >>>>> overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
> >>>>> (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
> >>>>> BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand why you assume that.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
> >>>> repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on the
> >>>> list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
> >>>> that will actually come to pass.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ava
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Michael
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> >>>>>>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> >>>>>>> responsibility without being paid?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to him
> >>>>>> about being a BIPs editor.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if they
> >>>>>>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to commit to it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all confirmed to
> >>>>>> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and Murch[2]
> >>>>>> have also replied to this thread about this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ava
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1]:
> >>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>>> [2]:
> >>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>>>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> >>>>>>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> >>>>>>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> >>>>>>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> >>>>>>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> >>>>>>> April 22nd.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ava
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
> >>>>>>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
> >>>>>>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
> >>>>>>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit
> >>>>>>> objections
> >>>>>>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
> >>>>>>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be
> >>>>>>> endorsed
> >>>>>>> > by many others.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
> >>>>>>> > counts are:
> >>>>>>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> >>>>>>> > * Murch - 13 for
> >>>>>>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> >>>>>>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> >>>>>>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> >>>>>>> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
> >>>>>>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this
> >>>>>>> process
> >>>>>>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
> >>>>>>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
> >>>>>>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
> >>>>>>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
> >>>>>>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone
> >>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>> > wants to deal with.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have
> >>>>>>> posted
> >>>>>>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have
> >>>>>>> reached out
> >>>>>>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
> >>>>>>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
> >>>>>>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
> >>>>>>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Ava
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >>>>>>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this
> >>>>>>> task, so
> >>>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >>>>>>> >> majority.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here.
> >>>>>>> Having
> >>>>>>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in
> >>>>>>> which people
> >>>>>>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not
> >>>>>>> end up
> >>>>>>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
> >>>>>>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
> >>>>>>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>> >> their expectations.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
> >>>>>>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and
> >>>>>>> we need
> >>>>>>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and
> >>>>>>> slacking off).
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
> >>>>>>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on
> >>>>>>> their track
> >>>>>>> >> record in the space
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> >>>>>>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> +1 for
> >>>>>>> >> Kanzure
> >>>>>>> >> RubenSomsen
> >>>>>>> >> Seccour
> >>>>>>> >> Jon Atack
> >>>>>>> >> Roasbeef
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
> >>>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
> >>>>>>> >> majority.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A.
> >>>>>>> Harding wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >>>>>>> >> > Please provide justification rather than simply
> >>>>>>> saying "I
> >>>>>>> >> like Bob!".
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> >>>>>>> following appears
> >>>>>>> >> to be
> >>>>>>> >> the candidate list along with the current support.
> >>>>>>> Asterisks denote
> >>>>>>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept
> >>>>>>> the role.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >>>>>>> >> Stewart[3],
> >>>>>>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10],
> >>>>>>> Brandon
> >>>>>>> >> Black[11],
> >>>>>>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
> >>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
> >>>>>>> Stewart[3],
> >>>>>>> >> Michael
> >>>>>>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> >>>>>>> Poinsot[15], John
> >>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris
> >>>>>>> Stewart[3],
> >>>>>>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >>>>>>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
> >>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
> >>>>>>> >> Stewart[3], John
> >>>>>>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8],
> >>>>>>> Antoine
> >>>>>>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> >>>>>>> Folkson[6], Keagan
> >>>>>>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
> >>>>>>> >> Riard[12],
> >>>>>>> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
> >>>>>>> >> "non-dev
> >>>>>>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP
> >>>>>>> editor", and
> >>>>>>> >> Antoine
> >>>>>>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of
> >>>>>>> the above
> >>>>>>> >> candidates had been especially active there, which is
> >>>>>>> listed
> >>>>>>> >> below as:
> >>>>>>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number
> >>>>>>> closed).
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >>>>>>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >>>>>>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >>>>>>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >>>>>>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >>>>>>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the
> >>>>>>> set to
> >>>>>>> >> have a
> >>>>>>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe
> >>>>>>> there are
> >>>>>>> >> far-along
> >>>>>>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
> >>>>>>> >> Payments). I
> >>>>>>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
> >>>>>>> >> demonstrates
> >>>>>>> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates
> >>>>>>> above with
> >>>>>>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
> >>>>>>> participants are
> >>>>>>> >> fully
> >>>>>>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
> >>>>>>> >> justification
> >>>>>>> >> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not
> >>>>>>> only a
> >>>>>>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but
> >>>>>>> (as Corallo
> >>>>>>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology
> >>>>>>> through a
> >>>>>>> >> draft
> >>>>>>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed
> >>>>>>> review of
> >>>>>>> >> all 300
> >>>>>>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
> >>>>>>> >> reviewed
> >>>>>>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
> >>>>>>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> >>>>>>> comprehensibility of the
> >>>>>>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the
> >>>>>>> work we'd
> >>>>>>> >> ask him
> >>>>>>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that
> >>>>>>> he's already
> >>>>>>> >> doing,
> >>>>>>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> -Dave
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [1]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [2]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [3]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [4]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [5]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [6]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [7]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [8]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [9]
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [10]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [11]
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [12]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [13]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [14]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [15]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [17]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> --
> >>>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> >>>>>>> Google
> >>>>>>> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails
> >>>>>>> from it,
> >>>>>>> >> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> >>>>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> >>>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> --
> >>>>>>> >> Sergi.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> --
> >>>>>>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>>>>> >> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>>>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from
> >>>>>>> it, send
> >>>>>>> >> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>
> >>>>>>> >> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>>.
> >>>>>>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>>.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > --
> >>>>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the
> >>>>>>> Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> >>>>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
> >>>>>>> > To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> >>>>>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> >>>>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
> >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
> >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com>.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
> >>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/0d4d85e3-9fbb-4bd4-af0f-92225e699b63%40achow101.com.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Michael Folkson
> >>>>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Michael Folkson
> >>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Michael Folkson
> > Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
>
--
Michael Folkson
Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com.
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-21 18:47 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-21 19:18 ` Michael Folkson
@ 2024-04-21 20:48 ` Antoine Riard
1 sibling, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-04-21 20:48 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: Michael Folkson, bitcoindev
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 37971 bytes --]
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
ACK.
Beyond that, I'll stick to my mail of the 1st April and I won't comment
further on the subject of nominating new BIP editors.
If anyone has thoughts on how to improve the BIP process for the _future_,
I think real-or-random started a new thread called "Time for an update to
BIP2?".
Anyone can express themselves there and then start to champion a new BIP of
type "process".
Best,
Antoine
Le dim. 21 avr. 2024 à 20:08, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing
List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> a écrit :
> On 04/21/2024 01:57 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> > So once a BIP number is allocated (or before) the BIP author can write
> > whatever they like on that BIP? Including false and misleading
> > statements? And the BIP editors have to merge it as long as it meets
> > formatting requirements?
>
> I did not say that they can write anything, do not put words in my
> mouth. Modifications to a BIP are held to the same standard as when it
> is initially proposed. This standard is largely about formatting, but
> also about keeping BIPs as actual technical specifications. So long as
> the BIP after those modifications meet those requirements, then BIP
> editors should merge them.
>
> > A misleading statement like "This soft fork will definitely activate
> > at block X as it has been merged into implementation Y. It hasn't been
> > merged into Bitcoin Core yet but Bitcoin Core will merge the soft fork
> > after the activation"
>
> BIPs are specifications. They are not blog posts. They are not the place
> for opining about whether or not something will activate. Such
> statements would be off topic for a BIP and do not meet the standard for
> merging, so no, I do not think that should be merged, and I do not think
> any of the proposed BIP editors would merge such a PR.
>
> >
> > This is a step change from before. If we aren't relying on *any*
> > judgment then there might as well be 100 BIP editors. Because the
> > editors aren't doing anything, each BIP author (or champion) has total
> > license to write whatever they like on their BIP.
> >
> >> They are not arbiters of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not
> gatekeepers of soft forks.
> >
> > Of course not. The BIP editors do not decide what is activated on
> > Bitcoin. But they are gatekeepers on ensuring BIPs are high quality
> > and don't include false and misleading statements. Because false and
> > misleading statements can impact the evolution of an activation
> > process.
> >
> > I tried. Based on your perspective all we need is one malicious BIP
> > author (or champion) and they'll make the entire BIP process a joke
> > and the BIP editors won't be able to do anything.
>
> You are being deliberately obtuse and strawmanning. I did not say that
> the BIP editors won't be able to do anything; I did not say that that a
> BIP author can put whatever they want once they get a BIP number.
>
> I suggest that you read the BIP process thread split from this one for
> opinions on how to refine the BIPs process to make it clearer as to what
> BIP editors should be merging.
>
> Frankly, I don't understand what it is your are arguing for or trying to
> achieve. You make absurd claims, use strawman arguments, and throw out
> whataboutisms. This all seems to me to be concern trolling, and as such,
> I see no reason to continue responding to you.
>
> Ava
>
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 5:39 PM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> >>
> >> You are misunderstanding the role of BIP editors. They are not arbiters
> >> of what is activated on Bitcoin. They are not gatekeepers of soft forks.
> >> If a BIP author proposes or agrees with a change to their BIP and those
> >> changes are formatted correctly, it is not the BIP editors' rights nor
> >> responsibilities to refuse to merge that change. As with Bitcoin Core
> >> maintainers, BIP editing is a largely janitorial role.
> >>
> >> Just because something is a BIP does not mean it is a good idea. Just
> >> because a BIP specifying a fork contains deployment parameters does not
> >> mean it will actually be deployed. There are several BIPs for both hard
> >> and soft forks that are rejected or withdrawn that have deployment
> >> parameters.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, for myself, I would actually prefer that contentious soft
> >> forks for which some people are legitimately attempting to activate have
> >> their deployment parameters be specified in a/the BIP. Having competing
> >> activation parameters in different BIPs is preferable over the
> >> documentation being spread around in many different places. It makes it
> >> much easier for implementations to inform users what they've actually
> >> implemented so that users can make a more informed decision.
> >>
> >> On 04/21/2024 07:43 AM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> >>> Ava
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the detailed response, I appreciate the insight.
> >>>
> >>>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> >>>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core
> merged
> >>>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> >>>>> and guidance on this.
> >>>
> >>>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft
> and
> >>>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> >>>> to be a good idea.
> >>>
> >>> I would hope that a contentious soft fork and activation params for
> >>> that contentious soft fork would not be merged into the Bitcoin Core
> >>> codebase and up until now it hasn't been. I would hope all the Bitcoin
> >>> Core maintainers understand that even if they personally think a soft
> >>> fork is a good idea (apparently there is nothing to stop them merging
> >>> it without discussing it with the other maintainers) that they
> >>> shouldn't independently merge it if it is contentious.
> >>>
> >>> Similarly I would hope that all BIP editors would be careful about
> >>> what information gets merged around soft fork activation *attempts*
> >>> whether that be activation details on a particular soft fork BIP or on
> >>> a separate activation BIP. With Taproot there were very strong
> >>> disagreements over activation parameters for a non-contentious soft
> >>> fork. It would be much messier for a contentious soft fork activation
> >>> attempt. I'm not sure all these new BIP editors understand that or
> >>> would perhaps even agree with that. For example Laolu is listed as a
> >>> supporter of a CTV activation attempt back in 2022 [0] which was
> >>> clearly contentious. That doesn't inspire me with confidence that as
> >>> soon as he is a BIP editor he won't start merging details on
> >>> contentious soft fork activation attempts in BIPs and merging that
> >>> soft fork in say btcd. He would need to be removed as a BIP editor if
> >>> he were to do something like that.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Michael
> >>>
> >>> [0]: https://utxos.org/signals/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Apr 21, 2024 at 12:05 AM Ava Chow <lists@achow101•com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 04/20/2024 06:21 PM, Michael Folkson wrote:
> >>>>> It is inevitable there will be a "revert war" unless they all have to
> >>>>> agree on merge decisions or communicate prior to merging. It is just
> a
> >>>>> matter of time. Does for example Ordinal Numbers get a BIP number? I
> >>>>> suspect all the new BIP editors won't agree on that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Why do you think that a revert war is inevitable?
> >>>>
> >>>> The Bitcoin Core repo operates in a similar way - the maintainers are
> >>>> independent and work autonomously. The maintainers do not have to
> agree
> >>>> on merge decisions nor do they communicate prior to merging. If
> there's
> >>>> disagreement about a merge decision, we talk to each other about it
> like
> >>>> adults and come to a mutually agreeable resolution. I don't think
> >>>> there's ever been a revert war in the history of Bitcoin.
> >>>>
> >>>> I would expect that when there is something that is likely to be
> >>>> controversial or is ambiguous that it should be a BIP that they would
> >>>> then talk to each other about it. It doesn't have to be all or
> nothing -
> >>>> they can do most work without communicating, but when there's
> questions
> >>>> or ambiguity, then they communicate.
> >>>>
> >>>>> Who is to blame in a "revert war" if each editor is free to merge
> >>>>> whatever pull request they like? The editor who merged it? Why should
> >>>>> they be removed as an editor for merging a pull request when they
> find
> >>>>> out later a different editor disagreed with that merge decision and
> >>>>> wants to revert the merge?
> >>>>
> >>>> A revert war would be someone merging a PR that reverts another, then
> >>>> someone else (opening then) merging a PR that reverts that, and it
> goes
> >>>> back and forth. It would not be limited to PRs only. This would likely
> >>>> be super obvious too that they are controversially merging things as I
> >>>> would be surprised if other BIP editors didn't comment on any of those
> >>>> actions, besides the fact that many people do also watch the BIPs
> repo.
> >>>> Regardless, the blame is on those who are doing the reverting, and
> would
> >>>> be both sides.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'm even more concerned about future soft fork activation attempts.
> >>>>> These don't necessarily need to be attempted via a Bitcoin Core
> merged
> >>>>> pull request hence the BIPs repo could be a key source of information
> >>>>> and guidance on this.
> >>>>
> >>>> This concern doesn't make any sense. There are already multiple soft
> and
> >>>> hard fork BIPs that are not active nor good ideas. A BIP does not need
> >>>> to be a good idea.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I've seen Wladimir is contributing again to Core. Is there a plan to
> >>>>> give him commit access again?
> >>>>
> >>>> It would have to be through the typical maintainer process, although I
> >>>> doubt that he even wants it. But that's completely orthogonal to the
> >>>> BIPs repo discussion.
> >>>>
> >>>>> I'd be more comfortable with him
> >>>>> overseeing things in the various repos under the Bitcoin Core
> >>>>> (/bitcoin) GitHub org as it sounds like you don't really care if the
> >>>>> BIPs repo degenerates into a free for all.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't understand why you assume that.
> >>>>
> >>>> I've said this before, but if I see a revert war going on in the BIPs
> >>>> repo, I will remove those involved immediately and make a thread on
> the
> >>>> list to discuss what to do about them. But I doubt that's a scenario
> >>>> that will actually come to pass.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ava
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks
> >>>>> Michael
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 10:15 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 04/20/2024 04:46 PM, Steve Lee wrote:
> >>>>>>> Wasn't there evidence provided that Kanzure does not want this
> >>>>>>> responsibility without being paid?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I am not aware of that, and it hasn't come up when I've talked to
> him
> >>>>>> about being a BIPs editor.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm confused by this process that we don't even ask the people if
> they
> >>>>>>> want the responsibility? I think only Laolu has chimed in to
> commit to it?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Personally, I've spoken to all 5 privately and they've all
> confirmed to
> >>>>>> me that they are willing to be BIPs editors. Jonatack[1] and
> Murch[2]
> >>>>>> have also replied to this thread about this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ava
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [1]:
> >>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/83b69000-ca1e-4a58-90b5-114cb09ac0bbn@googlegroups.com/
> >>>>>> [2]:
> >>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 12:30 PM 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> >>>>>>> Mailing List <bitcoindev@googlegroups.com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like
> to inform
> >>>>>>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees
> nor have there
> >>>>>>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my
> last email.
> >>>>>>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch,
> Jonatack,
> >>>>>>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added
> on Monday
> >>>>>>> April 22nd.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ava
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development
> Mailing List
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> > While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a
> lot to add at
> >>>>>>> > once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which
> subset of the
> >>>>>>> > nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen
> an actual
> >>>>>>> > objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no
> explicit
> >>>>>>> objections
> >>>>>>> > to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of
> people don't share
> >>>>>>> > their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue
> to be
> >>>>>>> endorsed
> >>>>>>> > by many others.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received,
> the current
> >>>>>>> > counts are:
> >>>>>>> > * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
> >>>>>>> > * Murch - 13 for
> >>>>>>> > * Jonatack - 13 for
> >>>>>>> > * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
> >>>>>>> > * Roasbeef - 9 for
> >>>>>>> > * Michael Folkson - none
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > However, I don't want this process to become a
> popularity contest and
> >>>>>>> > require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer
> that this
> >>>>>>> process
> >>>>>>> > be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are
> added - by
> >>>>>>> > achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit
> objections to any of
> >>>>>>> > these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with
> adding the 5 who
> >>>>>>> > have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners"
> from this list
> >>>>>>> > seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't
> think anyone
> >>>>>>> really
> >>>>>>> > wants to deal with.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor
> Roasbeef have
> >>>>>>> posted
> >>>>>>> > on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I
> have
> >>>>>>> reached out
> >>>>>>> > to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from
> Kanzure and
> >>>>>>> > Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but
> public
> >>>>>>> > confirmation from them on this list would also be nice.
> I have not
> >>>>>>> > received a response from Roasbeef.
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > Ava
> >>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>> > On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
> >>>>>>> >> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on
> this
> >>>>>>> task, so
> >>>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten
> by the group
> >>>>>>> >> majority.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the
> better here.
> >>>>>>> Having
> >>>>>>> >> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the
> commons, in
> >>>>>>> which people
> >>>>>>> >> just commit to the job because many others do, and they
> do not
> >>>>>>> end up
> >>>>>>> >> doing as much because they expect others to do the it.
> This does not
> >>>>>>> >> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones
> that end up
> >>>>>>> >> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up
> being too far
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>> >> their expectations.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I think being more moderate with the amount of people
> is better, and
> >>>>>>> >> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being
> excessive and
> >>>>>>> we need
> >>>>>>> >> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining
> and
> >>>>>>> slacking off).
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start
> from.
> >>>>>>> >> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben
> based on
> >>>>>>> their track
> >>>>>>> >> record in the space
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
> >>>>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>
> >>>>>>> >> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> +1 for
> >>>>>>> >> Kanzure
> >>>>>>> >> RubenSomsen
> >>>>>>> >> Seccour
> >>>>>>> >> Jon Atack
> >>>>>>> >> Roasbeef
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on
> this task, so
> >>>>>>> >> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten
> by the group
> >>>>>>> >> majority.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not
> enforce ideas.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I'd like to return to that.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - NVK (temp gmail account)
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David
> A.
> >>>>>>> Harding wrote:
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
> >>>>>>> >> > Please provide justification rather than
> simply
> >>>>>>> saying "I
> >>>>>>> >> like Bob!".
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Using only comments from the mailing list, the
> >>>>>>> following appears
> >>>>>>> >> to be
> >>>>>>> >> the candidate list along with the current
> support.
> >>>>>>> Asterisks denote
> >>>>>>> >> candidates who indicated their willingness to
> accept
> >>>>>>> the role.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava
> Chow[1], Chris
> >>>>>>> >> Stewart[3],
> >>>>>>> >> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt
> Corallo[10],
> >>>>>>> Brandon
> >>>>>>> >> Black[11],
> >>>>>>> >> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine
> Poinsot[15], John
> >>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1],
> Chris
> >>>>>>> Stewart[3],
> >>>>>>> >> Michael
> >>>>>>> >> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13],
> Antoine
> >>>>>>> Poinsot[15], John
> >>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2],
> Chris
> >>>>>>> Stewart[3],
> >>>>>>> >> /dev/fd0[5][7],
> >>>>>>> >> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava
> Chow[14], John
> >>>>>>> >> Carvalho[16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended
> by Chris
> >>>>>>> >> Stewart[3], John
> >>>>>>> >> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan
> McClelland[8],
> >>>>>>> Antoine
> >>>>>>> >> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael
> >>>>>>> Folkson[6], Keagan
> >>>>>>> >> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
> Black[11], Antoine
> >>>>>>> >> Riard[12],
> >>>>>>> >> Ava Chow[14]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - Michael Folkson*
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and
> Greg Tonoski for
> >>>>>>> >> "non-dev
> >>>>>>> >> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for
> "BIP
> >>>>>>> editor", and
> >>>>>>> >> Antoine
> >>>>>>> >> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized
> PM".
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see
> if any of
> >>>>>>> the above
> >>>>>>> >> candidates had been especially active there,
> which is
> >>>>>>> listed
> >>>>>>> >> below as:
> >>>>>>> >> total PRs they commented on (number still
> open/number
> >>>>>>> closed).
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
> >>>>>>> >> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
> >>>>>>> >> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
> >>>>>>> >> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
> >>>>>>> >> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
> >>>>>>> >> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only
> member of the
> >>>>>>> set to
> >>>>>>> >> have a
> >>>>>>> >> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I
> believe
> >>>>>>> there are
> >>>>>>> >> far-along
> >>>>>>> >> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and
> Somsen (Silent
> >>>>>>> >> Payments). I
> >>>>>>> >> don't think this should be a requirement, but
> I do think it
> >>>>>>> >> demonstrates
> >>>>>>> >> familiarity with the process.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the
> candidates
> >>>>>>> above with
> >>>>>>> >> multiple recommendations from other community
> >>>>>>> participants are
> >>>>>>> >> fully
> >>>>>>> >> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a
> detailed
> >>>>>>> >> justification
> >>>>>>> >> for the person who would be my first pick:
> Murch is not
> >>>>>>> only a
> >>>>>>> >> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin
> contributor, but
> >>>>>>> (as Corallo
> >>>>>>> >> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing
> terminology
> >>>>>>> through a
> >>>>>>> >> draft
> >>>>>>> >> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely
> detailed
> >>>>>>> review of
> >>>>>>> >> all 300
> >>>>>>> >> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd
> edition) and has
> >>>>>>> >> reviewed
> >>>>>>> >> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters,
> in both cases
> >>>>>>> >> significantly improving the accuracy and
> >>>>>>> comprehensibility of the
> >>>>>>> >> documentation. To me, that seems very similar
> to the
> >>>>>>> work we'd
> >>>>>>> >> ask him
> >>>>>>> >> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something
> that
> >>>>>>> he's already
> >>>>>>> >> doing,
> >>>>>>> >> so I think there's an excellent fit of person
> to role.
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> -Dave
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [1]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [2]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/>
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [3]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [4]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [5]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [6]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [7]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [8]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [9]
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>>
> >>>>>>> >> [10]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [11]
> >>>>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>>>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [12]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [13]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/>
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [14]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/
> >>>>>>> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [15]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [16]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >> [17]
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/>
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> <
> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/
> >>
> >>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>> >> --
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> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com>
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> >>.
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> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com>
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> <
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> >>.
> >>>>>>> >
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> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/fb52ccb5-9942-4db8-b880-3c06ebc47cd1%40achow101.com
> >.
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> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/070755a0-10e9-4903-9524-dd8ef98c1c8b%40achow101.com
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> .
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Michael Folkson
> >>>>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Michael Folkson
> >>> Personal email: michaelfolkson@gmail•com
> >>
> >
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
` (2 preceding siblings ...)
2024-04-20 20:46 ` Steve Lee
@ 2024-04-21 23:01 ` Matt Corallo
2024-04-22 0:06 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
2024-04-22 4:28 ` Ali Sherief
2024-04-23 22:15 ` Anthony Towns
5 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Matt Corallo @ 2024-04-21 23:01 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow, bitcoindev
I'm a bit confused, several people have suggested that Roasbeef clearly doesn't have the time
commitment to be added as a BIP editor, and I previously noted that of the list of people, only
Kanzure and Murch have been around for a long period of time and demonstrated depth in the kind of
Bitcoin technical nomenclature and copy-editing required for this role, largely via Kanzure's long
history of Bitcoin technical transcriptions and Murch's work on stack exchange and the nomenclature
BIP at https://github.com/murchandamus/bips/pull/1/files.
For the avoidance of doubt, this is an objection to the rest of the list.
Matt
On 4/20/24 3:14 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote:
> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
>
> Ava
>
> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
> wrote:
>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections
>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
>> by many others.
>>
>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>> counts are:
>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>> * Murch - 13 for
>> * Jonatack - 13 for
>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>> * Roasbeef - 9 for
>> * Michael Folkson - none
>>
>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really
>> wants to deal with.
>>
>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out
>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>> received a response from Roasbeef.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>> majority.
>>>
>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people
>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
>>> their expectations.
>>>
>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need
>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off).
>>>
>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track
>>> record in the space
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> +1 for
>>> Kanzure
>>> RubenSomsen
>>> Seccour
>>> Jon Atack
>>> Roasbeef
>>>
>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>> majority.
>>>
>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>
>>> I'd like to return to that.
>>>
>>> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>
>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote:
>>>
>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
>>> like Bob!".
>>>
>>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears
>>> to be
>>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote
>>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
>>>
>>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>> Stewart[3],
>>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
>>> Black[11],
>>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>
>>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3],
>>> Michael
>>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>
>>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
>>> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>
>>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>> Stewart[3], John
>>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
>>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>
>>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan
>>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>> Riard[12],
>>> Ava Chow[14]
>>>
>>> - Michael Folkson*
>>>
>>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>> "non-dev
>>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and
>>> Antoine
>>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>
>>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above
>>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
>>> below as:
>>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
>>>
>>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>
>>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to
>>> have a
>>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
>>> far-along
>>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>> Payments). I
>>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>> demonstrates
>>> familiarity with the process.
>>>
>>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with
>>> multiple recommendations from other community participants are
>>> fully
>>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>> justification
>>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
>>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo
>>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a
>>> draft
>>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of
>>> all 300
>>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>> reviewed
>>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the
>>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd
>>> ask him
>>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already
>>> doing,
>>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>
>>> -Dave
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
>>> [2]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
>>> [3]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [4]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
>>> [5]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [6]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [7]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [8]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
>>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
>>> [10]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
>>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>> [12]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
>>> [13]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
>>> [14]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
>>> [15]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
>>> [16]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
>>> [17]
>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>
>>> --
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>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sergi.
>>>
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>>
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>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-21 23:01 ` Matt Corallo
@ 2024-04-22 0:06 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
0 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List @ 2024-04-22 0:06 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matt Corallo, bitcoindev
Okay, it was not clear to me that the questions about whether he had the
time were actually objections. However, his response[1] indicates that
he does not think that time will be an issue, so I think that complaint
is sufficiently addressed.
As for Ruben and Jon, I think it's clear that others on this list think
that they are well suited for the role.
Ava
[1]:
https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAO3Pvs8B+NVWFUxg6zfNXYrAfX9mhqpj9ZpNSEr4HWUbJKnNmw@mail.gmail.com/
On 04/21/2024 07:01 PM, Matt Corallo wrote:
> I'm a bit confused, several people have suggested that Roasbeef clearly doesn't have the time
> commitment to be added as a BIP editor, and I previously noted that of the list of people, only
> Kanzure and Murch have been around for a long period of time and demonstrated depth in the kind of
> Bitcoin technical nomenclature and copy-editing required for this role, largely via Kanzure's long
> history of Bitcoin technical transcriptions and Murch's work on stack exchange and the nomenclature
> BIP at https://github.com/murchandamus/bips/pull/1/files.
>
> For the avoidance of doubt, this is an objection to the rest of the list.
>
> Matt
>
> On 4/20/24 3:14 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote:
>> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
>> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>>
>> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
>> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
>> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
>> April 22nd.
>>
>> Ava
>>
>> On 04/16/2024 01:08 PM, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
>> wrote:
>>> While I don't disagree that 5 or 6 people seems like a lot to add at
>>> once, it's not clear to me how we should decide which subset of the
>>> nominees should be added. As it is now, I have only seen an actual
>>> objection to Kanzure and Ruben from /dev/fd0, and no explicit objections
>>> to anyone else. It seems like the vast majority of people don't share
>>> their concerns either as both Kanzure and Ruben continue to be endorsed
>>> by many others.
>>>
>>> Looking at the endorsements each candidate has received, the current
>>> counts are:
>>> * Kanzure - 17 for, 1 against
>>> * Murch - 13 for
>>> * Jonatack - 13 for
>>> * Ruben - 12 for, 1 against
>>> * Roasbeef - 9 for
>>> * Michael Folkson - none
>>>
>>> However, I don't want this process to become a popularity contest and
>>> require some kind of formal voting. Rather I'd prefer that this process
>>> be something more like how Bitcoin Core maintainers are added - by
>>> achieving rough consensus. Without any explicit objections to any of
>>> these candidates, I'm inclined to move forward with adding the 5 who
>>> have received endorsements. Having to pick "winners" from this list
>>> seems like a quick way to stir up drama that I don't think anyone really
>>> wants to deal with.
>>>
>>> I do want to note that neither Kanzure, Ruben, nor Roasbeef have posted
>>> on this list that they are willing to be BIP editors. I have reached out
>>> to all 3 of them privately, and received responses from Kanzure and
>>> Ruben that indicate that they probably are willing, but public
>>> confirmation from them on this list would also be nice. I have not
>>> received a response from Roasbeef.
>>>
>>> Ava
>>>
>>> On 04/11/2024 10:22 AM, Sergi Delgado Segura wrote:
>>>> > I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>> majority.
>>>>
>>>> I disagree with that, the more doesn't really the better here. Having
>>>> too many editors may result in a tragedy of the commons, in which people
>>>> just commit to the job because many others do, and they do not end up
>>>> doing as much because they expect others to do the it. This does not
>>>> only make the process look bad but may burnout the ones that end up
>>>> doing the job, given their time commitment ends up being too far from
>>>> their expectations.
>>>>
>>>> I think being more moderate with the amount of people is better, and
>>>> gives us leeway in case the workload ends up being excessive and we need
>>>> to add more people (plus discourage people from joining and slacking off).
>>>>
>>>> I think 3 more people should be a good number to start from.
>>>> I'd personally vouch for Murch, Kanzure, and Ruben based on their track
>>>> record in the space
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Apr 2, 2024 at 4:30 PM nvk <rdlfnvk@gmail•com
>>>> <mailto:rdlfnvk@gmail•com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> +1 for
>>>> Kanzure
>>>> RubenSomsen
>>>> Seccour
>>>> Jon Atack
>>>> Roasbeef
>>>>
>>>> I would prefer having more (9+?) than less folks on this task, so
>>>> personal preferences are easily ignored and overwritten by the group
>>>> majority.
>>>>
>>>> BIPs were intended as a means to collect ideas, not enforce ideas.
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to return to that.
>>>>
>>>> - NVK (temp gmail account)
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, April 1, 2024 at 5:16:54 PM UTC-4 David A. Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 2024-03-28 10:04, Matt Corallo wrote:
>>>> > Please provide justification rather than simply saying "I
>>>> like Bob!".
>>>>
>>>> Using only comments from the mailing list, the following appears
>>>> to be
>>>> the candidate list along with the current support. Asterisks denote
>>>> candidates who indicated their willingness to accept the role.
>>>>
>>>> - Bryan "Kanzure" Bishop, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris
>>>> Stewart[3],
>>>> Michael Folkson[6], Peter Todd[9], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon
>>>> Black[11],
>>>> Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>> - Ruben Somsen, recommended by Ava Chow[1], Chris Stewart[3],
>>>> Michael
>>>> Folkson[6], Antoine Riard[12], Murch[13], Antoine Poinsot[15], John
>>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>> - Jon Atack*, recommended by Luke Dashjr[2], Chris Stewart[3],
>>>> /dev/fd0[5][7],
>>>> Brandon Black[11], Antoine Riard[12], Ava Chow[14], John
>>>> Carvalho[16]
>>>>
>>>> - Olaoluwa "Roasbeef" Osuntokun, recommended by Chris
>>>> Stewart[3], John
>>>> C. Vernaleo[4], /dev/fd0[5][7], Keagan McClelland[8], Antoine
>>>> Riard[12], Ava Chow[14]
>>>>
>>>> - Mark "Murch" Erhardt*, recommended by Michael Folkson[6], Keagan
>>>> McClelland[8], Matt Corallo[10], Brandon Black[11], Antoine
>>>> Riard[12],
>>>> Ava Chow[14]
>>>>
>>>> - Michael Folkson*
>>>>
>>>> Note: Luke Dashjr proposed[17] Seccour and Greg Tonoski for
>>>> "non-dev
>>>> triaging", Tonoski proposed himself[18] for "BIP editor", and
>>>> Antoine
>>>> Riard[12] proposed Seccour for "decentralized PM".
>>>>
>>>> I searched the BIPs repo by commenter to see if any of the above
>>>> candidates had been especially active there, which is listed
>>>> below as:
>>>> total PRs they commented on (number still open/number closed).
>>>>
>>>> - 21 (1/20) commenter:kanzure
>>>> - 3 (2/1) commenter:rubensomsen
>>>> - 15 (0/15) commenter:jonatack
>>>> - 18 (2/16) commenter:roasbeef
>>>> - 10 (6/4) commenter:Murchandamus
>>>> - 57 (6/51) commenter:michaelfolkson
>>>>
>>>> I'll also note that Osuntokun is the only member of the set to
>>>> have a
>>>> merged BIP that they co-authored, although I believe there are
>>>> far-along
>>>> draft BIPs for both Murch (terminology) and Somsen (Silent
>>>> Payments). I
>>>> don't think this should be a requirement, but I do think it
>>>> demonstrates
>>>> familiarity with the process.
>>>>
>>>> Speaking only for myself, I think all of the candidates above with
>>>> multiple recommendations from other community participants are
>>>> fully
>>>> qualified for the role, so I'll only provide a detailed
>>>> justification
>>>> for the person who would be my first pick: Murch is not only a
>>>> longstanding and broadly liked Bitcoin contributor, but (as Corallo
>>>> mentioned) he has worked on standardizing terminology through a
>>>> draft
>>>> BIP. In addition, he provided an extremely detailed review of
>>>> all 300
>>>> pages of a draft of Mastering Bitcoin (3rd edition) and has
>>>> reviewed
>>>> drafts of over 200 weekly Optech newsletters, in both cases
>>>> significantly improving the accuracy and comprehensibility of the
>>>> documentation. To me, that seems very similar to the work we'd
>>>> ask him
>>>> to perform as a BIPs editor and it's something that he's already
>>>> doing,
>>>> so I think there's an excellent fit of person to role.
>>>>
>>>> -Dave
>>>>
>>>> [1]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/2092f7ff-4860-47f8-ba1a-c9d97927551e@achow101.com/>
>>>> [2]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106...@dashjr.org/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/9288df7b-f2e9-4106-b843-c1ff8f8a62a3@dashjr.org/>
>>>> [3]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/d1e7183c-30e6-4f1a-8fd6-cddc46f129a2n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [4]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333...@netpurgatory.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/84309c3f-e848-d333-fd28-bdd55899b713@netpurgatory.com/>
>>>> [5]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/4c1462b7-ea1c-4a36-be81-7c3719157fabn@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [6]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/a116fba3-5948-48d2-a787-639a3564d006n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [7]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/846b668f-8386-4869-a3b1-55d346efbea1n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [8]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALeFGL1-LKPWd7YRS110ut8tX=wruqgLEazRA5nVw9siYCPj4A@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>> [9] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbf...@petertodd.org/
>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgePPvbfrr4wZG7k@petertodd.org/>
>>>> [10]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5...@mattcorallo.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/f9435999-42df-46b5-86e2-7ba0336a9bf2@mattcorallo.com/>
>>>> [11] https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/
>>>> <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ZgWRu32FXzqqg69V@console/>
>>>> [12]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+E...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CALZpt+E8DohYEJ9aO+FiF6+EKMCP5oEbHSKSXpq0VKVBhJLhrw@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>> [13]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a...@murch.one/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/53a0015c-b76a-441a-920b-32bd88d5e778@murch.one/>
>>>> [14]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f...@achow101.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ae482890-bce3-468f-866d-c555b80b0644@achow101.com/>
>>>> [15]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ppBS1tfMU3SFX85kmIBVBd0WpT5Wof_oSBXsuizh7692AUDw2TojfvCqvcvlmsy9E69qfWMxK-UZWawf8IDApPqF7bXOH4gwU1c2jS4xojo=@protonmail.com/>
>>>> [16]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552...@googlegroups.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/ad284018-e99c-4552-88ca-11b9ed340661n@googlegroups.com/>
>>>> [17]
>>>> https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+...@mail.gmail.com/ <https://gnusha.org/pi/bitcoindev/CAMHHROw9mZJRnTbUo76PdqwJU==YJMvd9Qrst+nmyypaedYZgg@mail.gmail.com/>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> Groups "Bitcoin Development Mailing List" group.
>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> send an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/7b4e2223-0b96-4ca0-a441-aebcfc7b0bben%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sergi.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>>> an email to bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com
>>>> <mailto:bitcoindev+unsubscribe@googlegroups•com>.
>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/bitcoindev/CAEYHFxV_8_Jw61tysL_cV_xiXBcRyA3e%3DCGHGuSCgm%2B-4WxT9w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread
* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
` (3 preceding siblings ...)
2024-04-21 23:01 ` Matt Corallo
@ 2024-04-22 4:28 ` Ali Sherief
2024-04-23 22:15 ` Anthony Towns
5 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: Ali Sherief @ 2024-04-22 4:28 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List
[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1513 bytes --]
Very good and hopefully this makes the BIPs repository more active.
I just have one suggestion though. Considering the backlog of BIP
modification PRs on github, It is quite inconvenient to hold a discussion
about one when there aren't other participants, particularly for the pull
requests that are several months old. Perhaps the new editors could also
facilitate clearing the backlog by means of discussion on these old pull
requests? I don't see anyone else participating in the evaluation process
for them except maybe the BIP author(s), but it takes more than one person
to hold a discussion.
-Ali
On Saturday, April 20, 2024 at 7:30:35 PM UTC Ava Chow wrote:
Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
everyone of what will happen on Monday.
There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
April 22nd.
Ava
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[-- Attachment #1.2: Type: text/html, Size: 2035 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-20 19:14 ` 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List
` (4 preceding siblings ...)
2024-04-22 4:28 ` Ali Sherief
@ 2024-04-23 22:15 ` Anthony Towns
2024-04-25 6:42 ` Antoine Riard
5 siblings, 1 reply; 96+ messages in thread
From: Anthony Towns @ 2024-04-23 22:15 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Ava Chow; +Cc: bitcoindev
On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 07:14:34PM +0000, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin Development Mailing List wrote:
> Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> everyone of what will happen on Monday.
>
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> April 22nd.
Thanks for pushing this forward, Ava!
One thing though:
> There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
When choosing personnel, asking for public objections is probably a
pretty bad approach. It's hurtful to the person being objected to, both
when the objections are accurate and when they aren't, and, especially
if the objections end up being ignored, it's harmful to the working
environment when the person who objected has to work with the person
they objected to in future.
Personally, I'd suggest focussing more on "are they demonstrably doing
useful work? yes, then they keep or increase their perms; no, then
decrease their perms". (Probably couldn't have done anything different
this time around, but maybe something to keep in mind for the future)
Along those lines, it might be worth having a review in six months or
so to see which of the editors and processes have been effective, and
which ones haven't, and see if there's anything worth changing further
to increase the wins and diminish the losses. Could be worth making
something like that a regular thing (once a year?); for the Debian
Technical Committee, we had somewhat similar problems with inactivity
and a lack of renewal, which (IMO) was fixed in a big part just by
having a policy of saying "okay, longest serving member gets booted,
remaining folks should invite someone new" once a year.
Anyway, it's easy to quibble about what the best process might be,
but actual results are more important, so thanks again Ava!
Cheers,
aj
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread* Re: [bitcoindev] Re: Adding New BIP Editors
2024-04-23 22:15 ` Anthony Towns
@ 2024-04-25 6:42 ` Antoine Riard
0 siblings, 0 replies; 96+ messages in thread
From: Antoine Riard @ 2024-04-25 6:42 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Bitcoin Development Mailing List
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Hi AJ,
> When choosing personnel, asking for public objections is probably a
> pretty bad approach. It's hurtful to the person being objected to, both
> when the objections are accurate and when they aren't, and, especially
> if the objections end up being ignored, it's harmful to the working
> environment when the person who objected has to work with the person
> they objected to in future.
>
> Personally, I'd suggest focussing more on "are they demonstrably doing
> useful work? yes, then they keep or increase their perms; no, then
> decrease their perms". (Probably couldn't have done anything different
> this time around, but maybe something to keep in mind for the future)
> Along those lines, it might be worth having a review in six months or
> so to see which of the editors and processes have been effective, and
> which ones haven't, and see if there's anything worth changing further
> to increase the wins and diminish the losses. Could be worth making
> something like that a regular thing (once a year?); for the Debian
> Technical Committee, we had somewhat similar problems with inactivity
> and a lack of renewal, which (IMO) was fixed in a big part just by
> having a policy of saying "okay, longest serving member gets booted,
> remaining folks should invite someone new" once a year.
I'm respectfully dissenting here. Decade(s)-old IETF / BIP standards
are kinda open-source commons after-all, and this is very expected than
someone who is aspiring to get perms in their maintenance have to answer
objections from the non-permissioned people enjoying usage of the
commons.
Yes, it can hurt to have to answers public objections on your person
when you're aspiring to open-source perms. I think that's part of the
process, if you wish a comfortable job you can always go to work at
$YOUR_LOCAL_BIG_TECH (tm). Additionally, one can wish to be sure
that the candidate have sufficient level of ethics / personal integrity.
Especially, to serve as a check-and-balance when one has to conduct
privileged actions in the execution of permissions.
W.r.t, I can only invite anyone to read the ACM Code of Ethics:
https://www.acm.org/code-of-ethics
(Far from perfect as ethics is a dynamic concept after-all, though can
provide guidelines if you're entitled with perms in this space, and you
don't know how to act in a given instance).
Apart of that, I think the idea of the longest serving members in a
set of maintainers / editors without substantial activity getting booted
every X and remaining folks can invite someone new can serve as a not
so bad rule of thumb.
To conclude, I'm rejoicing too on seeing concrete results in the nomination
of BIP editors, which doesn't forbid ulterior discussions on improving its
process.
Best,
Antoine
Le mercredi 24 avril 2024 à 16:36:38 UTC+1, Anthony Towns a écrit :
> On Sat, Apr 20, 2024 at 07:14:34PM +0000, 'Ava Chow' via Bitcoin
> Development Mailing List wrote:
> > Since we're now past the deadline of April 19th, I'd like to inform
> > everyone of what will happen on Monday.
> >
> > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
> > been any suggestions on choosing a subset of them since my last email.
> > As such, there is rough consensus on adding Kanzure, Murch, Jonatack,
> > Ruben, and Roasbeef as BIP editors, and they will be added on Monday
> > April 22nd.
>
> Thanks for pushing this forward, Ava!
>
> One thing though:
>
> > There has not been any actual objections to the nominees nor have there
>
> When choosing personnel, asking for public objections is probably a
> pretty bad approach. It's hurtful to the person being objected to, both
> when the objections are accurate and when they aren't, and, especially
> if the objections end up being ignored, it's harmful to the working
> environment when the person who objected has to work with the person
> they objected to in future.
>
> Personally, I'd suggest focussing more on "are they demonstrably doing
> useful work? yes, then they keep or increase their perms; no, then
> decrease their perms". (Probably couldn't have done anything different
> this time around, but maybe something to keep in mind for the future)
>
> Along those lines, it might be worth having a review in six months or
> so to see which of the editors and processes have been effective, and
> which ones haven't, and see if there's anything worth changing further
> to increase the wins and diminish the losses. Could be worth making
> something like that a regular thing (once a year?); for the Debian
> Technical Committee, we had somewhat similar problems with inactivity
> and a lack of renewal, which (IMO) was fixed in a big part just by
> having a policy of saying "okay, longest serving member gets booted,
> remaining folks should invite someone new" once a year.
>
> Anyway, it's easy to quibble about what the best process might be,
> but actual results are more important, so thanks again Ava!
>
> Cheers,
> aj
>
>
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 96+ messages in thread